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Can Star Wars Episode III Be Saved?
Posted by
michael
on Thu May 20, 2004 10:45 AM
from the nope dept.
from the nope dept.
mcwop writes "MSNBC is running a commentary asking: 'Can "Star Wars: Episode III" be saved?' It proposes changes such as ripping off Akira Kurosawa, getting the otherwise good actors to emote, and even firing Lucas. It is one year away, but is it too late to save Episode III?"
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no. (Score:5, Funny)
The sacrifice of saving it isn't worth it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Think of it: one good move after at least 3 crappy sequels. Statistically, if you encourage this jackass to keep on making movies 75% will be shit.
Please. Let it die.
Parent
Re:no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Just your friendly, neighborhood Dark Lord of the Sith
Parent
Re:no. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:no. (Score:5, Informative)
You aparently weren't around when they came out. The release of Star Wars was one of the biggest events of the 70's. People stood in line in pouring rain for 3 hours to see it. People went to see it 10 or more times in the theaters. It was all people talked about. It was huge. Everyone saw it. Cinematic quality aside, you can debate this all you like, but it was a monumental event in American culture.
You also seem to be unaware that only one of the three movies was released in the 70's. Empire was in 1980 and Jedi was in '83. Were you even born when Jedi came out?
Parent
Re:no. (Score:5, Informative)
By the 3rd one I'm assuming you're saying "Return of the Jedi"?
If so, then sorry to say, you're just dead wrong. I suppose you were not alive when the first Star Wars came out in 1977? The world basically stopped when that movie came out. We're talking EVERYONE was talking and buzzing around about Star Wars. You couldn't turn on a TV, couldn't listen to the radio, couldn't go to any other movie without seeing a huge line of people waiting to get in and seeing it again.
Not to mention the fact that Star Wars was nominated for best picture of the year of 1977. What beat it out? Annie Hall. But to say that not until the 3rd one did it really get any attention is just...well, wrong. I'm certainly not a fan-boy of Star Wars, but I just can't let this slip by. Mainly because it kind of annoying to see Star Wars everywhere. And I mean everywhere. And it took forever for it to calm down.
Artwork? Probably not. Plain and simple fun? You betcha. Also, Lucas made it originally to be like a serial B movie that he grew up on,
Also, not to be picky, but the 2nd and 3rd one didn't even come out until the early 80's. But I suppose the 80's had their share of unwashed masses for you.
Parent
Re:Didn't Get Any Attention?? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, the original Star Wars was a sleeper. Meaning that it didn't get released with a lot of fanfair in May of 1977. It came out of no where. They didn't have a lot of cash left over for advertising the movie. You have to remember, they didn't thik this was really going to work and it only cost 9 million to make. Even in 1977, 9 million wasn't a lot of money to make a movie.
Only after it became a hit that summer did all the hype build about it through the only means of the day, word of mouth.
Parent
Re:Didn't Get Any Attention?? (Score:5, Interesting)
We had quite sophisticated tastes back then:
Saturday morning cartoons
Bicycles
Peterbuilt/Kenworth/MAC big-rig trucks & CB radios
Hotwheel/Matchbox car collecting
Catching insects and lizards
Tormenting the red ant nest at school
Planet of the Apes (all of them) along with SWAT/Emergency!/6 Million Dollar Man were the best of Hollywood, and KISS was the best musical band.
Is it any wonder as adults we see these films differently?
Parent
Re:no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ya, it should've been modded INSIGHTFUL.
Parent
A bright future (Score:5, Interesting)
Wait 20 years or so. The original trilogy will continue to be seen as a seminal work, and the "prequels" as a bastardized ripoff. Eventually, Lucas will die, or otherwise give up the franchise (maybe Michael Jackson can trade his Beatles songs [straightdope.com] for it).
Then, finally, someone can remake parts I through III the way they should have been done in the first place. No midchlorians, no virgin birth, no Jar Jar. Special effects that compliment the story, instead of overshadowing it.
Some future screenwriter and director will have the opportunity to give us back the thrill we had in the '70s, when we saw the original Star Wars in a non-multiplex theater, and were in awe. We who were preteens will be in our 50s... it won't be too late.
Something to look forward to! Just not in 2005.
re: a bright future (Score:5, Interesting)
otherwise though, that's an interesting idea. of course, there's a bit of me that wishes i could see a kevin smith treatment of ep 3, considering he's a big SW fanboy.
ed
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Re: a bright future (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: a bright future (Score:5, Insightful)
I saw that, and realized that there was a reason why Lucas made Jar Jar the Uncle Tom of the SW franchise for a reason after all. But it still boils down to poor writing and a lack of imagination (where "imagination" != "special effects"). If the plot was so transparent that only Jar Jar could fall for it, what of the other thousands of supposedly intelligent members of the Senate?
A good writer would have found a way to make Palpatine's plot more devious, more plausible... so inescapable that even Padme would have to agree to it. There are plenty of examples to draw on from recent American history, from McCarthyism to the present.
It didn't take a Jar Jar character in the US Senate when it voted to give Bush the power to wage war -- just incontrovertable "facts" that weren't what they seemed. The Imperial Senate didn't require a fool to lead them astray -- all it would take would have been a well-meaning but fundamentally flawed desire to do right.
Parent
Re: a bright future (Score:5, Funny)
agreed...it took 77 Jar Jar characters in the Senate and 296 Jar Jar characters in the House. Of course, why the rest of the Jar Jar characters in the Legislature voted otherwise will always be a mystery...
Parent
Re: a bright future (Score:5, Funny)
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Re: a bright future (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, that doesn't mean that the average moviegoing American would find such a vote in the Galactic Senate plausible, which says much about our instinctive understanding of human nature and history. Also, we wouldn't want the "good guys" to do anything that would help the "bad guys" now would we? That would just confuse everyone.
Parent
Re:A bright future (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe a bit overstated. Even as a 10-year-old I felt embarassed by the flat, corny dialogue in some parts of #4, especially when Han says to Luke "May the Force be with you." You can tell that Harrison feels like a goon saying that line.
Now that's not to say the Star Wars universe isn't great. I rarely had so much fun as playing SW-KotOR, and much of it was because it was just so cool walking around on Tatooine.
Parent
Re:A bright future (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe he's just acting. I mean, Han Solo would feel like a goon saying that.
Parent
Lucas too possessive to let someone else try (Score:5, Interesting)
Lucas will never allow anyone to do anything with Star Wars. In fact, his best buddy Steven Spielberg has already spoken about this [bbc.co.uk]. Lucas feels that the Star Wars saga will be his legacy and he doesn't want anyone messing with it. Spielberg practially begged Lucas for a chance to direct a Star Wars film and Lucas said no. So I can't see Lucas willingly giving up control to anyone. And with the new copyright laws, his family will be able to control Star Wars indefinitely. So you can forget about a Star Wars film ever being made by anyone with talent.
GMD
Parent
Re:A bright future (Score:5, Funny)
> -- "I'm no actor, but I'm crass enough to scam my way into a movie every now and then." - Henry Rollins
Your sig gives me a great idea! Why not take the article's suggestion of dropping Hayden Christiansen and replacing him... with Henry Rollins! Wouldn't that be awesome?! Lava-surfing saber battles? Hell no! Serious man-on-man pummeling! A pre-armor Vader the size of a Volkswagen stomping around in gym shorts like some heavily-tattooed punk-rock Hulk would absolutely beat the living *crap* out of what we had before! And the first time someone calls him "Annie" he could just head-butt them and start screaming into... erm... some sort of space microphone or something.
That would rule.
Parent
Re:A bright future (Score:5, Funny)
Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like fucken Shaft!
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Yoda (Score:5, Funny)
Does Lucas Know? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does Lucas Know? (Score:5, Interesting)
I know that there will be 100 posts saying this exact same thing by the time I click the submit button, but to answer your questions: Yes and No. He does know how people feel. He doesn't live in a little bubble in the Arizona desert. He may even read Slashdot while hiding under the identity of Paul Rothrock. But, in the end, Star Wars is not about the movies. It isn't about the story. The Start Wars books are far more interesting story-wise than the movies. It is about the marketing. If you go way back to A New Hope and read the behind-the-scenes stuff that went on to get the movie made, you can see that Lucas was keen on marketing. Everything else was just a hobby.
Parent
Re:Does Lucas Know? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, Ep. 2 *was* better, but I think it also demonstrated that Lucas doesn't really understand the basis of his problems. He chalked it up to criminally bad ideas like Jar Jar and fixed those, but then went right back to his usual technique of crappy dialog and lousy direction.
What really needs to happen is at least part of what the article suggests -- the movie needs a talented director (aka, not Lucas). I'm not sure that Lucas' ego will let him do that; he's spent too many years basking in the praise of the original trilogy.
It won't happen. Frankly, I'm more keyed to see the next Harry Potter movie than Star Wars Ep 3 at this point, and that's a sad, sad thing to say about a new Star Wars movie.
Parent
Re:Does Lucas Know? (Score:5, Interesting)
Once again no one on Slashdot is talking about the truth of the situation. Lukas is getting you to pay for a paradigm shift to digital movie making. All he needs is for the movie to be good enough to cover costs. He could probably write off the cost as R&D anyway because that's what he's doing. He is doing a proof of concept for all digital filmmaking. He is not telling a story, He is not making a movie, and he is definitely not making art of any kind.
Parent
He doesn't like criticism (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, Lucas knows that people don't like what he's done. The problem is that he thinks they are all wrong and doesn't want to hear it. In fact, CNN was refused access to Attack of the Clones based on a Connie Chung interview where she told Lucas that most people thought TPM was a disappointment [tvweek.com]. If you're going to kick the media off your property and deny them access to a major news story just because they suggested that the film didn't live up to expectations, I don't think you can honestly claim that you're open to criticism.
As far as his "reputation as a filmmaker", I think Lucas must realize now that he really isn't a filmmaker. He knows that Star Wars will be his legacy. So he really doesn't care about looking like some kind of great director because he knows he'll never direct again. That's probably one reason he's so possessive of the films -- he knows this is the last movie he'll ever direct.
GMD
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The whole point is to make money (Score:5, Insightful)
It'll serve it's purpose. Unless you are planning not to bother going to see it, which as geeks and nerds, I frankly don't believe.
Killing off Jar-Jar (Score:5, Funny)
Makes sure it's a slow painful death with lots of burning from the lava. Tape his mouth shut too, so I don't need to hear his stupid voice. I say R2D2 should be the one that "accidentily" pushes him in. Cuz R2 is the comic relief pimp.
Re:Killing off Jar-Jar (Score:5, Funny)
Episode III: The Passion of Jar-Jar
it's just 2 hours of jar-jar being beaten.
Parent
Sure fire save. (Score:5, Funny)
YES (Score:5, Funny)
Battlestar Wars Galactica (Score:5, Funny)
In the new version, Luke Skywalker will be a woman...
Re:Battlestar Wars Galactica (Score:5, Funny)
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Saving Ep. 3 (Score:5, Insightful)
When Lucas shows up, knock him out, encase him in a block of frozen carbonite and put him out of the way somewhere until the movie is out in theaters.
The only problem being, of course, that you shouldn't let him out after Ep. 3 lest he decide to somehow sully my other fond childhood memories, perhaps by stealing my box of photos and defecating in it.
Anyhow, the article addresses the basic irony of Star Wars: That the guy who created it has also done the most the drive it into the ground, and that success has allowed him to do so more completely than ever. We all knew going in that Lucas can't direct, he can't write dialog, and yet here we go again...
Personally, I just thank God that this decade has had the LOTR trilogy to call its own. It was what we were hoping the new Star Wars movies would be.
None of our business, really (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry you viewed the first films through the rose-tinted glasses of youth, and are unable to view the latest three in the same way. Feel free to bitch and moan about how it's not up to some mythical "standard" you create, but it comes down to it being Lucus' movie, and he can do as he pleases.
yeah right (Score:5, Funny)
What an odd question... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm assuming that no one here as seen the finished movie. So how can one ask the question "Can a movie be saved?" before knowing if it needs to even be saved.
Of course, based off episode 1 and 2, I'm guessing Jesus couldn't save the thing...
hire brin!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
I already told several people that I will not be seeing Ep III because Brin's conclusion to the series is so much better than anything Lucas could come up with.
The series was ALWAYS supposed to be pulp. (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole Star Wars franchise was always, from day one, supposed to be a pulp "Saturday Matinee" sort of pulp serial.
It has a campy, heavily derivative space opera story line. It's been pieced together with black and white heroes and villains, both of which make the audience boo and giggle at the same time.
To fix one is to break the series. Most die-hard Star Wars fans are fans because they were kids when they saw the originals. Hell, many of you weren't even BORN to watch the original in the theaters in 1977. The series hangs together precisely because it is all schlock, and yet we love the characters anyway.
Its too EARLY!! (Score:5, Funny)
I reckon I'll be 'saving' it to a couple of CD-Roms in about a years time....
RM
I've got two words for Lucas (Score:5, Funny)
They'll forget all the mistakes of the past if you add such a character.
Kurosawa (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as the article. I agree that Hayden Christensen is terrible as Dart Vadar. As well as most of his other points, especially the typical overuse of cgi effects which made me feel as if i was watching an videogame cut-scene the whole time. But one that he forgot to mention is the unbelievably forgetable characters who populate the script.
Sure it can (Score:5, Funny)
Not better or worse, different (Score:5, Insightful)
The general story form the original 3 movies is rediculously thin. The original Matrix put more plot in that single film than was in ep4, ep5, and ep6 combined. That didnt make them suck... it made them simple and fun.
In the prequels, he added a story line, political complexities, and actual character development - all of which was completely abscent in the originals. While they may not be "better" in the sense that the style changes made them mode fun to watch, but they are certainly not garbage. They are simply different types of movies. They only get condemned because of peoples memories of how much they loved SW back in the late 70s and early 80s.
SW has always been made for 12 year olds to love. The new movies accomplish exactly the same thing the originals did... only this time you arent 12.
Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
- only those younger than 10 years old could ever appreciate Jar Jar Binks....I don't think he was demanded at all.
"American culture makes this movie inevitably what it will be"
- In that everyone who enjoyed episodes 4-7, hates episodes 1-3? ok, but I don't see how thats "American Culture's" fault....it's more like Lucas's fault for writing and directing 3 shitty movies made for kids(kids=10yrs and younger)
Parent
Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
AFTER they went to the theatre to see the movie and bought the DVD and the special DVD with 5 seconds of extra footage.
Yes, it is too late, because a boycott of episode II after episode I's horrible blunder would have possibly saved the third movie, because they listen to box office sales, not slashdot.
But if they make a movie that as many people as possible can go to, and sell a lot of tickets, they make a lot of money. And episode I and II made a lot of money.
Parent
Re:Simple answer: no (Score:5, Insightful)
With the original Star Wars trilogy, he was limited by technology... but now, he can throw whatever he wants into a movie to fulfill his 'vision.' If the special edition 'improvements' he added to the original trilogy were really making Star Wars into what he wanted it to be thirty years ago, you can see that trend: adding useless scenes with robot antics, Han stepping on Jabba's tail, and loads of other childish slapstick crap like that. The best he could do thirty years ago with Ewoks.
In conclusion, any guy who dreams up Jar-Jar Binks is obviously nuts. You can't blame market pressure for a guy who seems to get off on terrible kids movies.
Parent