Warezed SoundForge Files In Windows Media Player

An anonymous reader writes "German PC-Welt magazine reports that Microsoft used an illegal copy of SoundForge 4.5 (Google translation) for editing Wave files shipped with Windows Media Player. You can check that yourself by opening any file in the [Windows location] \Help\Tours\WindowsMediaPlayer\Audio\Wav\ folder in notepad or other editors of your choice and looking at the last line. There you will find a reference to SoundForge 4.5 and also a user called 'Deepz0ne' who happens to be one of the founders of an audio software cracking group called Radium."

Lessons to learn

[by Anonymous Coward]

"Do as we say, not as we do."

Re:Lessons to learn

[Squareball (523165)]

With all the BILLION$ of dollars M$ has they can't even pony up the money for Sound Forge? Good god. If I was still running a pirated copy of windows I'd feel very vindicated.. but now I run a mac so..

Re:Lessons to learn

[Justus (18814)]

Yeah, nice justification! They did something wrong so that means I can do it too!

The real lesson

[zakezuke (229119)]

With all the BILLION$ of dollars M$ has they can't even pony up the money for Sound Forge?

Have you tried getting management to buy the software required for a project? At times it's damn near impossible. You have a deadline and your request is moving at the speed of bureaucracy. Finally you say *fuck it* and get the damn software. This becomes a vicious circle when management asks, "Oh you didn't need us to buy this software before why do you need it now? Just do what you did before."

I'm not saying this is good or bad, this is just the way it happens. Management holds no accountability because it's their job to be a dumb ass. Being a dumb ass isn't illegal and saves the company money. They didn't pirate the software, some peon did.

Re:The real lesson

[Erik Hollensbe (808)]

I agree. Also, with the ubiquity of "fat clients", often times developers don't even bother to ask - they "demo" software long before they buy it.

It's easy to blame it on the managers, but the developers don't help by inflating the problem, promoting the piracy of software where an actual demo would have been more fruitful.

Dev: "Hey, I signed up for a demo of this. I put your email address in the form."
Manager: "Ok."
(2 weeks later)
Dev: "I need this whiz-bang feature that the demo doesn't support. I won't be able to continue until I get it working."
Manager: "Write up a PO and put it on my desk."

Often times, that'll get you software by the end of the week. It's worked for me many times... Where as the alternative (which I have done), normally gets the response, "we already have it, why do we need to buy it?".

Re:The real lesson

[by Anonymous Coward]

Nope, that's when you keep all email to management requesting the required software and their response. When the deadline is missed you show it to them.

Oh, you put it in e-mail? All POs must be in writing and put in the blue inbox bin.

Oh, you put it in the blue bin? We are putting all POs in the red inbox bin.

Oh, you put it in the red bin? All that goes in the shredder. All POs must be faxed.

Oh, I'm out of paper? Why didn't you send it by e-mail?

What the hell are you doing sending registered mail to my home address? You can't expect me to work during my off hours.

Re:Lessons to learn

[VistaBoy (570995)]

Technically, under the law, they ARE a singular entity. That's the entire idea behind a corporation: the company is a seperate entity, and if any part of the entity breaks the law, the entity as a whole can be sued for it. It allows for individuals to evade financial consequences if their company is held responsible for something.

For instance, let's say I start a company, and that company's product ends up causing a lot of accidental deaths. Instead of the individuals that compose the company being sued, the company itself is sued, and money can't be taken from the individuals...just the company. It lowers the risk of starting a business by making sure that only the business itself can be financially destroyed, not the individuals behind it.

However, on the same token, every employee of Microsoft is a representative of Microsoft as a corporation. "Some dude who worked at Microsoft" who used a cracked copy of Sound Forge is a representative of the company, and by breaking the law, the entity of Microsoft as a corporation is responsible for breaking the law.

That's true but don't pretend it was intentional

[Sycraft-fu (314770)]

Yes, Microsoft is liable and will have to pay Sony (if their employee was the one responsible). However having an employee do something they shouldn't is VERY different from willful infringement.

The problem is people seem to be blaming Microsoft as though they willfuly ripped off Sonic Foundry (now Sony) to save some money. Please, Sound Forge is like $250, it's nothing to them. More likely, whoever was responsible for it, maybe not even an MS employee (they may have contracted this out) just liked SF and used it instead of whatever app they had licensed.

Still their responsibility to pay for it, but don't pretend it was them being evil. They don't monitor the every move of their employees.

Interesting counter question: How many OSS Windows apps are compiled using a warezed version of Visual Studio?

Re:That's true but don't pretend it was intentiona

[Saint Stephen (19450)]

Nobody has to use a Warezed version of Visual Studio. Between the .NET SDK, and the Visual C++ 7.1 Toolkit, and the PlatformSDK, you can download all the tools you need to build (including the optimizing C compiler) for free.

Even if you have a legal copy of Visual Studio you should be doing your automated build process with the free tools anyway.

Re:Lessons to learn

[Kosi (589267)]

No, but they are responsible for the actions of their employees. And they should be held to be.

Just imagine a small company where some guy runs a illegal copy of Windows XP. Sure they would be sued or threatened with it to pay the license fee plus something. Same procedure should be applied to MS.

Re:Lessons to learn

[pinko-rat-bastard (182983)]

Oh really? Maybe you should tell that to Ernie Ball [com.com]. I'm sure that little tiff with the BSA was all just a big misunderstanding.

A few angles...

[Last_Available_Usern (756093)]

Optimist's response: Maybe they were waiting for their activation code. Pessimist's response: They knowingly stole it. Realist's response: Even Microsoft has no use for MS Sound Editor.

Re:A few angles...

[mgv (198488)]

Optimist's response: Maybe they were waiting for their activation code. Pessimist's response: They knowingly stole it. Realist's response: Even Microsoft has no use for MS Sound Editor.

The question it rasises is how much other stuff is in windows that has IP violations? The answer is: Nobody knows. Probably not even MS know, and a nobody else is in a position to analyse it. By the time it gets found and publicised, its been in the operating system for a long time.

Michael

Re:A few angles...

[kfg (145172)]

The question it rasises is how much other stuff is in windows that has IP violations?

And the answer it provides is that the idea that closed soure software somehow becomes magically free of stolen or infringing code is fallacious.

At best it provides the bliss of ignorance, but an ignorance difficult or impossible to correct.

KFG

It's ok, MS has indemnified everybody

[wowbagger (69688)]

It's ok, though, because Microsoft has indemnified everybody (except embedded Windows users), so just be happy this didn't happen in some terrible operating system without a big, strong, virile company like Micorsoft backing it...

Best Friend!

[Phluxed (737458)]

I want to shake the hand of the guy who forgot to license it properly.

Re:Best Friend!

[zurab (188064)]

Are you kidding? I want homeland security on the case ASAP [go.com]. I also want BSA to send threatening letters to all Microsoft departments and offices and force them to audit their licensed software and code copyrights - or else they'll break down the doors with the assistance of Secret Service [msn.com] and seize all their assets! You know, irresponsible IP thieves and pirates like these are the criminals that are forcing software industry to lose $50.7 trillion (or whatever number it is) per year.

BSA?

[molo (94384)]

Where is the BSA when you need them? :)

-molo

Re:BSA?

[saden1 (581102)]

I believe Microsoft is not only a member but "THE" Founding member of BSA.

MiCRoSoFT

[by Anonymous Coward]

MS is the leetest crew out there. They are just giving greetz to their friends at RAD

-GRAViTY pwns j00!

Re:MiCRoSoFT

[jbarket (530468)]

M$ 4r3 t3H |{=R4D H4X0RS. B1G UPZ T0 R4D1U/\/\, FUG L4M3RZ!#@%@! 1337 4 L1F3!

Re:MiCRoSoFT

[Geoffreyerffoeg (729040)]

1337 4 L1F3!

You're going to regret that when you turn 65 and you can barely understand English, let alone l33t....

A 1337 funny on "Jeopardy"

[abh (22332)]

A couple days ago was one of the college tourneys on Jeopardy. The winner was a Comp Eng/Comp Sci major from Carnegie Mellon. His final Jeopardy wager? $1337

Engrish

[alphapartic1e (260735)]

First sentence in the translated article:

Already times on the idea come ...

Really want makes me the article to read.

So when does it stop being 'opinion'

[Saven Marek (739395)]

So when does it stop being 'opinion' that big companies don't give a shit about anyone else's "IP rights".

We bash MS, and get MS defenders countering with idiocy that makes it seem like it's all a battle of opinion over whether MS is a big bad company or simply misunderstood, or whether MS is a monopoly, or just highly talented, whether MS doesn't give a shit about IP rights while enforcing their own or they're just working within a business realm that they need to survive.

Sorry, It just keeps going on and on like this. MS using pirated software to develop & promote their media player. Indefensible from a company that professes to rely so much on IP, unless they're nothing but greedy hypocrites.

I'm going with the "nothing but greedy hypocrites" thanks

Re:So when does it stop being 'opinion'

[Martin Blank (154261)]

It may well have been one impatient user. There's at least one in every company I've ever been at. Usually we just chuckle at them behind their backs and do what we can to make sure proper licensing procedures are followed (including changing admin passwords where necessary and hoarding new software behind locked doors) when there's no one willing to fire the person. The company ends up paying for the software in most cases as it's supposed to, but if an audit were ever done, a few software keys wouldn't quite match up even though the counts would be roughly correct.

you could be right....

[TiggertheMad (556308)]

...Or some guy just liked using his cracked copy of SF, and brought it into work to use.

Before you go running off all bitter and self-righeous, you might want to consider the difference between the coporate management and the average joe schmuck employee.

This isn't MS being hypocrites, it is an employee breaking company policy and bringing in outside sofware.

Re:you could be right....

[abb3w (696381)]

...Or some guy just liked using his cracked copy of SF, and brought it into work to use.

...or took did some work at home, and brought the results in to work. He may not have brought in outside software, but only data manipulated by outside software.

BSA audits

[Ender Ryan (79406)]

Ok. Next time your company gets audited by the BSA(another beast we can thank MS for), and they find one or two pirated copies of software, that employees installed without authorization, and use that as justification to charge you for the audit, to the tune of several millions of dollars, remember what you just said today.

No Meaning!

[mpoulton (689851)]

But moment once who or which is " Deepz0ne "? (no meaning)!

Tell me about it! I have that problem all the time, man.


Methinks machine translation is still in its infancy.

Seriously...

[xstonedogx (814876)]

Already times on the idea come, one with Windows XP installed WAV file with the editor to open? That makes nevertheless nobody - Microsoft will have imagined, nevertheless innumerable WAV files on the computer and those lie are to to listen to and to do not look at there.

Off-topic me all you want, but what's the point of providing a Google translation of these things. It's like posting an article and expecting no one to RTFA.

Oh, wait...

Big Deal.

[sirrube (622137)]

That was in response to the developers of SoundForge using a warzed copy of windows.

Supreme Best Translation Number 1!

[colonslashslash (762464)]

Windows Systemverzeichnis we became fuendig

Yes, those damn systemverzeichnis! We all get very fuendig when dealing with them.

For listening to MP3s the Windows codec was correct, but it offered only limited Encodierungsfunktionen

Its a well known industry fact that lack of Encodierungsfunktionen causes loss of sound quality.

Then one sees first only letter salad

Mmmm ASCII salad. Goes great with chicken and a glass of red wine so I'm told.

That might only in talking moon for the Windows the Media Player responsible person

Ummm... moon wha?

The statement of Microsoft is still pending, times sees, what says Microsoft for this.

It's true! German Yoda does exist! And he's working for a PC magazine. I knew it!

Perhaps not MS's doing.

[Animaether (411575)]

Just for kicks, do a content search on all *.wav files on your drive, searching for the string 'deepz0ne'.

You may run across more hits. That doesn't necessarily mean that the author of the software they came with used a cracked copy of SoundForge.

For example, the Digital Eel game "Dr. Blob's Organism" demo has the deepz0ne string in "powerdn.wav", but doesn't have it in any of the others. That makes me think they probably just grabbed a sound effect off of a (presumably) royalty-free sound effects library (CD/DVD/online), and that particular sound effect happened to be authored or modified in a warez version of SoundForge.

Similarly the mediaplayer sounds... whose are they, really ? Were they authored/modified by an MS Employee ? If not - where does MS's responsibility come in ? Do -you- check every asset you acquire in good faith belief to see if they may have been touched by a cracked piece of software ?

Re:Perhaps not MS's doing.

[IamGarageGuy 2 (687655)]

Good point except for the fact tha MS is supposed to check. They are the ones that are being high and mighty on the subject. Remember that MS has leagues of lawyers both checking and enforcing IP and using any resources within their power to enforce. This is a big egg-on-face fiasco. I don't double check royalty-free stuff but I am not distibuting software in the same scale as MS nor have the same resources and rightuous indignation.

Why is this "funny"?

[mark-t (151149)]

Seriously... how is a company, _ANY_ company, doing something like this remotely funny?

Does anyone remember

[marktaw.com (816752)]

That senator who said physical damage should occur to anyone's computer that had illegal software/music/movies on it? And does anyone remember when they found some JavaScript on his site that was used without permission?

Good times.

What other apps store my username in their files?

[no_such_user (196771)]

Does this mean that every file I've created with my (legal) copy of Sound Forge, registered to me, gets distributed with my name embedded in it? What other programs do this? I already know that MS Office docs do -- but I never suspected Sound Forge of something like this.

Software authors/distributors should be required to disclose exactly what personal information is distributed in files which are created with that product. As much as I like to stick it to M$, Sonic Foundry, now Sony, is the one I'm concerned about here.

Re:Correction to original article

[east coast (590680)]

Actually, the tool required to see the code would be a hex editor, not a regular text editor like Notepad.

Odd, the tool "required" on my laptop was notepad. It did the job just fine.

Re:winwarez.jpg

[by Anonymous Coward]

wow, it's not goatse

i almost feel disappointed :(

Ummm....

[by Anonymous Coward]

Who needs the linked JPG? Just go to the directory in question: $WINDOWS\Help\Tours\WindowsMediaPlayer\Audio\Wav

...Maybe those who don't have/use Windows might need the Jpeg?

Re:Not a big deal really

[RedK (112790)]

So... how is it working as a sound file editor at Microsoft ?

Re:Not a big deal really

[Anita Coney (648748)]

It's a big deal because Microsoft, along with the BSA, comes down quite hard on companies where even nominal amounts of illegally licensed software are used. Those companies will now have the same defense that Microsoft currently has: Sometimes mistakes happen.

Re:Not a big deal really

[Anita Coney (648748)]

Microsoft and the BSA presumes violations before any proof is found, why should I presume any differently?

Re:Not a big deal really

[B'Trey (111263)]

And how many times has Microsoft's lapdog BSA audited [itworld.com] some one, found a piece of Microsoft warez that some employee had pirated and fined the hell out of the company for it? That's what makes this newsworthy.

Re:Not a big deal really

[node 3 (115640)]

Why is it that you believe MS should be allowed to do this, but that they are allowed to fine or have imprisoned people who violate MS's rights?

MS stole code, they've done it before, and they're doing it now. Given how Ballmer likes to pretend he's some sort of champion of individual IP-holder's rights, he shouldn't have a problem making this "error" right.

Instead, it's more likely this will take a lawsuit.

What makes this newsworthy is the same thing that makes Limbaugh's drug use news. It's not so much that he's a druge addict (although there is a group of the public who likes public scandal), but it's that he condemns other drug users to jail, but demands leniency for himself.

If MS wants a pass on this, then they should lighten up, remove XP activation bullshit, whatever. Otherwise, to hell with them.

Re:Good test for GPL?

[VistaBoy (570995)]

Sound Forge 4.5 isn't GPL software. Basically, someone in Microsoft used a pirated version of some sound-editing software to make a sound file for Windows XP, and the evidence of the piracy is in the metadata of the WAV file. It just proves that they pirated some proprietary software to make a sound file, not that they ripped off GNU source code and put it in Windows.

What's with the (s)he?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870)]

We all know he's a he. Women have better things to do with their time than crack software.

Re:Alternate explaination

[SonicBurst (546373)]

Along those lines, I was thinking that maybe the sound editing was outsourced. We all know that their photography is stock stuff; witness all the MS ads picturing Apples. It is conceivable, though not necessarily true, that this work was done by an outside agency.

Re:Nice going TImothy

[John Miles (108215)]

Doesn't sound likely. Certainly not true of SF 7.0b, which is what I have:

000639B0: FC FF FC FF FE FF FB FF F9 FF FE FF FD FF FB FF
000639C0: 63 75 65 20 1C 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 cue   
000639D0: 00 00 00 00 64 61 74 61 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 data
000639E0: 00 00 00 00 4C 49 53 54 30 00 00 00 61 64 74 6C LIST0 adtl
000639F0: 6C 74 78 74 14 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 F0 8D 01 00 ltxt  ð

00063A00:&nb sp; 72 67 6E 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 6C 61 62 6C rgn labl
00063A10: 07 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 30 31 00 00 4C 49 53 54  01 LIST
00063A20: 4A 00 00 00 49 4E 46 4F 49 53 46 54 15 00 00 00 J INFOISFT
00063A30: 53 6F 6E 79 20 53 6F 75 6E 64 20 46 6F 72 67 65 Sony Sound Forge
00063A40: 20 37 2E 30 00 00 49 45 4E 47 0B 00 00 00 4A 6F 7.0 IENG Jo
00063A50: 68 6E 20 4D 69 6C 65 73 00 01 49 43 52 44 0B 00 hn Miles ICRD

00063A60: 00 00 32 30 30 34 2D 31 31 2D 31 32 00 02 2004-11-12