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Original Star Wars on DVD... Sorta
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Sep 13, 2006 07:31 AM
from the well-thats-just-a-let-down dept.
from the well-thats-just-a-let-down dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Original Star Wars is available on DVD. Sure it's more moola in Lucas's pocketsess (Gollum accent). But he did finally release the original version for a limited time.
But which Original Star Wars, I bet Episode IV is in the opening titles. " Also apparently the original versions are basically non-anamorphic transfers from the laser discs. So basically, they look terrible.
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Greedo didn't do it! (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry, I couldn't help myself :-)
darnit (Score:4, Funny)
I have every VHS and DVD version of the movies and can usually point out most of the differences. But, I am getting better.... I no longer live in my parents basement
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You know what else grinds my gears? When I can't find the droids that I am looking for.
Re:darnit (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:darnit (Score:5, Funny)
"That's good. You've taken your first step into a larger world"
Cheers, Ian
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Will we ever get what we really want? (Score:5, Interesting)
Originals probably still exist (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Originals probably still exist (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Will we ever get what we really want? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is freaking ILM we're talking about. If they can't undo the changes they made from the Special Edition 'masters' (whether they're in digital form or actually some type of celluloid, I don't know) then I'll eat my non-SE VHS tapes. These people are masters at digital manipulation and restoration. There is simply no way that they are incapable of recreating the originals using the SE versions as a base + laserdisc (for reference).
Parent
Re:Will we ever get what we really want? (Score:5, Informative)
1) The original negatives are gone, destroyed as part of the process of creating the 1997 special edition versions.
We're inclined to believe this is true. Still, the original negatives are not the only viable elements that can be used to transfer the films for home video release. There are numerous interpositive prints. There are the separation masters. Worst case, there are a number of high quality release prints available. In short, other elements exist that can be used for this purpose.
2) The other existing original elements have deteriorated too badly to be used.
We'll come back to this one in a minute.
3) There are just no quality film elements remaining anywhere that could be used.
See our answer to #1. Even if it's true that Lucas and his staff destroyed all of the original negatives, it's unlikely in the extreme that they also destroyed all of the interpositives, all of the separation masters, and all of the release prints. In fact, we know that they didn't. Where, for example, would the anamorphic footage of the original 1977 opening text crawl from A New Hope - the footage that appeared in the Empire of Dreams DVD documentary - have come from if not from quality surviving film elements? Still, even if Lucas did destroy every single scrap of original film available in the Lucasfilm Archives... we know for a fact that high quality die transfer release prints exist in the hands of a number of archives and private collectors. While not ideal, any of these could be given a high-definition transfer, a bit of digital clean-up and color-timing, and could be presented on DVD in anamorphic widescreen in quality that would be superior to a 1993 non-anamorphic laserdisc transfer.
4) The 1993 laserdisc masters are the best source material that can be found for use on DVD after exhaustive searches of the Lucasfilm Archives.
See our answer to #3. This is flatly absurd. If this were true, Lucasfilm's archivists should be ashamed of themselves. We know of few professionals tasked with the preservation of film materials that would allow such critically important film elements as the original Star Wars films to be lost, to deteriorate or be wholesale destroyed. And again, even if Lucasfilm's vaults were so woefully incomplete, we know for a fact that quality elements exist elsewhere. Given 48 hours notice, we could track them down ourselves. Surely, with its significant resources and influence, Lucasfilm could do the same. If the 1993 laserdisc masters are really the best that Lucasfilm can do, it's disturbing. If not, a statement like "We returned to the Lucasfilm Archives to search exhaustively for source material that could be presented on DVD..." seems terribly disingenuous - the corporate PR equivalent of "I'm so sorry, but the dog ate my homework."
But let's get back to #2...
2) The other existing original elements have deteriorated too badly to be used.
It just so happens that one of our regular contributors here at The Bits, the author of our ever illuminating Yellow Layer Failure, Vinegar Syndrome and Miscellaneous Musings column, is something of an expert on the subject of film preservation and restoration. Robert A. Harris, in point of fact, is one of the world's best known motion picture archivists, and has does significant work in this field through his company, Film Preserve. Robert's experiments in color technology and more recent advances in the digital domain have set standards in the industry. His reconstruction and restoration efforts, primarily in the large format field, have brought back to the screen some of the most important films ever produced, including Lawrence of Arabia, Spartacus, My Fair Lady, Vertigo and Rear Window.
We asked Robert what might be done with the original surviving elements of the Star Wars films in order to rejuvenate them and present them in high quality on DVD
Parent
Re:Will we ever get what we really want? (Score:5, Funny)
Jack Bauer could do it in half the time.
Parent
Re:Will we ever get what we really want? (Score:4, Insightful)
You're making an assumption about someone else's competence. A dangerous thing to do.
Parent
Re:Will we ever get what we really want? (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically, this is not what people screamed for and whether he "stuck it to us or not" is not debatable.
Parent
Re:Will we ever get what we really want? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's exactly the truth. For you to claim otherwise is your own opinion, colored by what you feel you're owed, or entitled to, from George Lucas. Which, IIRC, is...let's see here... *nothing*.
First of all, you can't just buy the originals. You must buy the re-edits to get the originals as a "bonus" feature.
Oh, so *that's* what a split hair looks like!
Secondly, the Theatrical release of the original trilogy was on superb 70mm film prints. It pushes current DVD technology to the very limit to represent anything close to how good those films looked on the big screen.
Right...because it was 70mm on a BIG SCREEN. And, as we've been told, the prints have been destroyed. So we've been told.
Furthermore, "THX Sound" was invented as a way of insuring that theaters would have the kind of audio quality Lucas believed his films demanded. Every film the guy has ever released has always been put out with the very best media presentation available at the time... until now.
Wrong. THX [wikipedia.org] was invented in 1983, so the first two films made use of what was available at the time.
I'm going to get my hands on bootleg LD rips, and be content with that as the best format the original movies will probably ever again exist in.
You could've done that for a long time now. But it's a choice. You choose not to buy, I choose to, well, I'll probably rent them from Netflix first to see if I want to buy them. Then there's this tidbit from Wikipedia: "It is said that this edition will be released in a "Grand Saga" box set. Lucasfilm Vice President of Marketing Jim Ward confirmed that in this final release, Lucasfilm is likely to return to John Lowry to do even more work on the films (possibly digital contemporization of the original trilogy). He says, "As the technology evolves and we get into a high-definition platform that is easily consumable by our customers, the situation is much better, but there will always be work to be done.""
Who knows. But is it really worth getting all bunged out about?
Parent
George Lucas' Fear of Failure (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, an ultimate set? You don't have enough of my money?
Seriously, I wish Lucas would understand that we would rather see completely new material from him than to see him repackage and alter what we have and do love from him. I would rather see him release 9 mediocre or bad movies than to have him edit, 3D-ify and edit again episodes IV, V & VI.
Damnit Lucas, let the studio technicians re-master the movie (they went to school for it, they know what they're doing) and give us more original content! Look at all the famous directors you've studied. Did Akira Kirosawa edit and re-release Shichinin No Samurai or Rashômon over and over and over again? No, he continued to make more movies, some very very good and some mediocre.
Re:George Lucas' Fear of Failure (Score:5, Insightful)
George Lucas had a few good movies in him, but in reality he had one great thing and that was to revolutionize the use of special effects. He is more of a technical specialist rather than a story teller - why else would he continue to re-work the same material over and over again by enhancing the effects?
But to expect any great new material in the form of new stories and plots from him is unrealistic. I think that Star Wars volumes I-III proved that.
Parent
Re:George Lucas' Fear of Failure (Score:5, Insightful)
Piles and piles of money?
-Eric
Parent
Re:George Lucas' Fear of Failure (Score:5, Funny)
3 down, 6 to go.
Parent
The Defense of I, II & III (Score:5, Insightful)
I hated Episode One, I liked Episode Two and I loved Episode Three. Overall, they're a good addition to the Star Wars universe. Episode One was fluff and terrible fluff at that. But it'd be a lie to say I don't own them and I know that these are movies that will survive time and last in my movie collection.
The important thing is that I will show them to my kids, much like the IV, V & VI were shown to me. And hopefully, they'll spur imagination and entertainment for everyone that sees them. That is the point of sci-fi movies, by the way, not to satisfy everyone that views them. I think that any eight to fourteen year old kid would enjoy all the Star Wars movies thoroughly and that makes them good. I, II & III contain excellent social commentary even though some of the acting might be terrible and the plot clunky.
We expected platinum for Lucas and he gave us silver. That's not very fair. Still, I'd rather watch Episode One than 90% of the crap I see hit movie theatres these days.
Parent
Re:The Defense of I, II & III (Score:5, Insightful)
Why else would he have started with Episode IV? Usually, you start at the beginning.
My guess would be that IV is just as boring (over long stretches) for someone who saw them the first time in the "right" order (i.e. new trilogy first, old one last). Because it, again, explains a lot. A lot that you already know when you've seen I-III.
In total, though, EpOne was a huge disappointment in pretty much every aspect. It has long passages of rather boring background info that doesn't really come to fruit in the movies (it does in the books, but the movies left out a sizable portion of this). Generally, it consists in large parts of Anakin being introduced as a very great Jedi-wannabe and the zany antics of JarJar.
What was the REAL disappointment was the rest of the Trilogy. Ep2 had the ability to become a great SciFi movie. Hey, it had the growth of Palpatine, it had the beginning of Anakin's corruption and let's not forget, it had what made every SciFi movie great: Tons and tons of robots. Lucas decided to make a cheesy love story out of it. A love story. Now, name ONE SciFi movie that is named when it comes to numbering the greatest SciFi movies of all times that consists basically of a love story. Yes, of course, Anakins love was one of the key elements to his ultimate corruption to the dark side, but does it have to be stretched to the lengths that the average SW fan falls asleep?
Finally Ep3. I was waiting to be compensated. I was actually expecting, no, demanding that we'll see a movie that rivals the greatness of IV and... hell the whole old trilogy! Hey, we all knew what was supposed to happen. And we all wanted to know one thing: HOW? Just HOW exactly does Anakin become Vader? What do we get? A laser sword fight over a lava pit that doesn't even come close to the emotional struggle displayed in VI between Vader and Luke. Great CGI, no doubt. But where was the emotion?
And in the end, without further ado, we get a Vader presented shouting a simple NOOOOO. What? No gory details? I, at the very least, would have expected some bargaining between Palpatine and Anakin, something like "I save your life and you join me on the dark side", some epic personal struggle for Anakin, at least SOMETHING that gives me a reason to feel for those characters.
Generally, great CGI, great effects, great eye candy, shallow story. If I wanted that, I could as well play a game.
Parent
Re:The Defense of I, II & III (Score:5, Insightful)
First, he didn't start with Episode IV. He started with a movie called "Star Wars". Empire was the first movie to carry an episode number, and the original Star Wars did not get its "Episode IV" subtitle until its re-release. Second, it should be very clear to anyone who watched the series evolve in real-time that George Lucas was making up as he went. He may have had the very vague concept of something larger in his head but I refuse to believe that he:
Parent
Re:The Defense of I, II & III (Score:5, Insightful)
The movie had its faults. The little boy was awful, the introduction of midi-chlorians was a mistake, and of course, Jar Jar was a disaster.
But for me, Ep 1 did not have the scope that the others had. It was too localised, and perhaps in that respect it was aptly named.
Parent
Re:The Defense of I, II & III (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The Defense of I, II & III (Score:3, Funny)
No, that's good CGI, not sci-fi...
Horrible Transfer (Score:3, Insightful)
Is Lucas trying to make a point?
Reminds me of.. (Score:5, Funny)
"Yea I saw Phantom Menance and Attack of the Shit. It was like your uncle sticking his weiner in your mouth. Not like when you were a kid but grown up. You don't expect it either, your uncle's your favorite person, got you high, bought you your first beer, hate your mom hate your dad but your uncle is cool.
You're at your parents for christmas, everyone's in bed, you're watching Letterman and you look over and see your uncle trying to put his weiner in your mouth. That's what Phantom Menace was like.
I'm not even gonna see the third one (ROTS). It'll just be me walking into an empty theater and there will be Lucas ready to rape me some more. And I'll just do it to get it over with.
Then he'll put on a Greedo mask and call it the Special Edition."
Don't worry about the bad quality (Score:3, Funny)
And again a year after that.
And again a year after that.
Bugger. (Score:5, Funny)
quality (Score:4, Interesting)
When I came home from work, I noticed that the new version was very dark. I turned-up the brightness for the kids. I wish I knew why that was.
How is the quality of the bootleg DVD rips of the original trilogy from LD? How does it compare to these? Wouldn't it be a shame if the bootlegs looked better. Anyway for me quality better than my old VHS versions will be acceptable, but why could it not have been at least an anamorphic rip of the original trilogy on these new discs?
I'll Bite (Score:4, Insightful)
So... (Score:5, Funny)
I like the new DVDs (Score:5, Insightful)
You know you'll buy it. (Score:3, Funny)
A friend of mine that's a rabid Star Wars fan was grousing about this yesterday, even as he talked about when he'd pick them up.
I told him the SW fans' motto should be "I may have to buy it, but I don't have to like it."Not THAT bad (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not THAT bad (Score:4, Informative)
-Eric
Parent
Re:Not THAT bad (Score:4, Informative)
LaserDisc video is analog. (Sound is either analog or digital).
Parent
Terrible? (Score:5, Informative)
Enough already (Score:3, Insightful)
I applaud Lucas in his devotion to his creation that millions love. It's an icon of our time.
If you don't like the movies or the editing that has been done to them, that's fine. Don't buy them. It's that simple.
Woah, hold on there buddy! (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, I'm no expert but wasn't that the whole point with releasing the originals on DVD?
*ducks and waits for a +flamebait to hit him*
Lucas and Microsoft (Score:4, Funny)
Originals destroyed? I don't think so.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Wouldn't the first step in making the "special editions" be to digitize and clean up the original film? And who in their right mind would destroy that data? It can't take up too many drives.
So to me it means one of two things:
1. In his hatred of his original work, Lucas ordered the data deleted, which is pretty stupid (since keeping it around would be cheap).
2. He *has* a very nice cleaned up original version sitting on the Lucas SAN somewhere but refused to allow that to be released.
Either way it blows....
Watching Episode IV right now (Score:4, Informative)
Overall, I would NOT say that it looks terrible, though if you want to find things to complain about you can. A couple scenes look somewhat muddy. Some scenes have some dust specks here and there, a few scenes have quite a bit of dust, others have none. But all in all the contrast, brightness and color are pretty good. If you sit up close you can see a fair amount of film grain, but sitting 10 feet back you cannot. What does seem to be missing is what I'll call the "ghost boxes" around the ships in the space scenes.
It does appear to be the original version. The title screen only says, "Star Wars", no "Episode IV: A New Hope" Han shoots first. There are no really bad CG characters added. The Death Star explosion is not enhanced. I'm not enough of a Star Wars nerd to know what else to look for.
I suppose it depends on what you are looking for. If you want to be a video geek and complain how its not that great, you can do that. If you want to have fun and remember how you felt as a 12 year old boy in 1977 seeing something that was completely unlike anything you had ever seen before, this is the way to do it. It still brought a tear to my eye when Han zooms in at the last minute and saves Luke.
Do I think Lucas is a prick for not at least cleaning up the dust specks and giving us the option of 5.1 sound? Yes, yes I do.
So there you are Slashdoters. I hope you are all happy that I ruined my first screening of Star Wars in 10 years looking for things not to like and jumping around looking for "enhancements".
I Have A Point To Make About Episode III (Score:4, Funny)
Before the days of the iconic trash can and/or recycle bin, we lived in fear of accidentally deleting an important file. But now, first you are asked, "Are you sure you would like to delete this file?" And if you lose your brain momentarily and say "yes" when you should have said "no", you can pull it right back out of the trash.
Basic user interface design.
Now lets pretend we're designing the control centre for an industrial facility that has to sit in the middle of a lava flow for some reason.
Where exactly would you put the "destroy this facility" button? I mean, if you had the audacity to create one in the first place. Most people would avoid designing a control so sensitive as to turn "stable" into "complete structural failure".
If you're Lucas, apparently you put it right smack in the middle of the console, so that when two people are fighting, they can bump into it and send the structure to a fiery death.
No, "Are you sure you would like to destroy this facility?" At the very least if they really wanted to complete the destruction they should have had to empty their trash icon.
I can accept a lot of things, but seriously... for a guy who embraces technology at the expense of storytelling and style, Lucas makes some surprisingly poor choices for script devices.
Re:I Have A Point To Make About Episode III (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Lucas cannot win. I have Karma to burn. (Score:5, Insightful)
Demand for the release of the original, unaltered trilogy on DVD has come up in the form of a great and plaintive whine in every single Star Wars-related story on Slashdot since probably around 1999. Now, here they are, and what are the "fans" doing? Complaining.
Sure, Lucas could have remastered the OT's picture and sound, made it anamorphic, and left out all the Special Edition changes. But then you would just have fanboys complaining that that constitutes an alteration. I know, you think that sounds outlandish, but I guarantee you it's not. Star Wars has become less about enjoying the films than complaining about the films, at least around here.
I think the only way the whiny fans will ever be pleased is when the technology finally emerges to Choose Your Own Star Wars Edition, where you pick from a digital menu which alterations you want. "OK, I want the non-Special Edition, with remastered picture and sound, Han shoots first, lightsabers are colored, old sandcrawler but new dewbacks, I want the new space battles... hmm, the Death Star explosion: ring or no ring?"
I'm kidding, of course. That won't actually solve anything, the whiners will just complain that they're once again being "forced" to buy another edition. George Lucas wants me to pay for entertainment. I have no free will and have to pay for every edition whether I like it or not. Boo hoo.
The unaltered OT is out on DVD. You got your wish. Now, for Christ's sake, quit your bitching. Instead of continuing to moan about what you didn't get, count your lucky stars that we live in an economy that can support your having so many choices in your entertainment. And recognize that it is a choice. You great big giant babies.
Ahh, okay, I feel better. Have a great day.
Darn film looks like it was made in the 70s! (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Side-by-side comparison, and anamorphic vs. non-an (Score:5, Informative)
First: Here's a shot-by-shot comparison of the newly released footage to recent home releases. [starwars.com]
Next, here's a simple explanation of what "anamorphic" is all about. It originally comes from the cinema. An anamorphic lens stretches or shrinks the image along one axis. In the movies, they use it to shrink the image horizontally when they film it, and stretch it back when they project it. This is what allows theaters to fit a widescreen image on square cells on the film. Anamorphic DVDs work similarly.
See, the aspect ratio (ratio of width to height) of the Star Wars theatrical release is somewhat larger than TV's traditional aspect ratio of 4:3. Annoyingly, the video format that DVDs use is hard-coded to a range of fixed resolutions, all of which have 4 times as many pixels across as they have vertically. (Ok, I'm oversimplifying slightly, but not critically.) To fit content wider than 4:3 onto a 4:3 format, you have 3 choices:
To display an anamorphic DVD on a regular-screen TV, the DVD player will still need to shrink the image top-to-bottom, otherwise everything will look tall and thin. On such a TV, an anamorphic DVD will not look much different than a letterboxed DVD. On a wide-screen TV, though, the DVD player can stretch the image side-to-side to fill the entire width of the display. This provides a direct benefit over simply enlarging a letterboxed DVD image: You gain vertical resolution.
--JoeParent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)