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Media Fight - PS3 Blu-ray vs. 360 HD DVD Add-On
Posted by
Zonk
on Sat Dec 02, 2006 04:30 AM
from the gaming-movie-players-go-now dept.
from the gaming-movie-players-go-now dept.
An anonymous reader sent a link suggesting we might enjoy High Def Digest's next-gen console media comparison. They take a look at the PlayStation 3's Blu-ray playback capabilities, and compare it to the performance of the Xbox 360's HD DVD add-on. The article offers a number of technical details for the movie, audio, and gaming buff. As you might expect, given the companies involved, both products basically perform their functions very well. From the article: "That doesn't mean both aren't without their drawbacks. The Xbox 360 add-on suffers from a lack of HDMI and analog outputs, though it still delivers excellent results despite those limitations. The PS3, meanwhile, also lacks analog outs, but it does have HDMI 1.3 support and can decode Dolby TrueHD. The lack of 1080 upconversion of 720p sources on the PS3 is a huge issue, though, so unless you have a 1080p-capable HDTV, you may suffer buyer's remorse."
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it's the games, stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
A comparison of the actual games might be a bit more relevant. To be perfectly honest, I don't think anyone buys a gaming console BASED ON THE FUCKING PERFORMANCE OF THE OPTICAL DRIVE. They buy it because it has the games they want to play.
Re:it's the games, stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That would be an insightful comment, except that it's completely wrong. You can buy the Samsung BDP1000 Blu-Ray player for LESS than a playstation 3 (if you can even get your hands on a playstation 3), and the Samsung outputs at proper 1080p resolution. The playstation 3 does not.
Put simply, anyone interested in blu-ray video content is going to have a player that does the job properly. The PS3 is for games.
Re:it's the games, stupid (Score:5, Informative)
Umm are the prices that far out of whack compared to Norway? Best prices around here (forget the exchange rate, look at the relative prices)
Cheapest PC burner: LG GBW-H10N 4795,-
Playstation 3 (preorder): 5489,-
Cheapest standalone: Samsung BD-P1000 11295,-
All figures from hardware.no, which has all the major webshops covered. So at least around here BD-P1000 is over twice the price of a PS3, not that PS3 will be released here before March. Are you comparing store BD-P1000 prices to eBay PS3 prices or something?
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Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
History proves you wrong. This is the exact same situation and Sony is betting on it.
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Yeah, just like nobody bought the PS2 for it's DVD player capabilities (with the games being a bonus) in the system's early years.. Oh wait, that's wrong, a lot of people did!
Nobody I know did that.
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History proves you wrong. This is the exact same situation and Sony is betting on it.
So if Sony had released the PS3 with a Uber Holographic-Movie Disc (which will work on your Holographic-TV that will be relased in 2020) for only $20,000 you think people will line-up to buy one?
The fact is that the PS2 sold as a DVD player because DVD
1080p what? no, wrong (Score:2)
Where can you get a Samsung BD player for under $600/500?
more wrongness (Score:3, Informative)
The two models of the PS3 are $500 and $600. $700 - $800 is not less than $600.
Re:more wrongness (Score:4, Funny)
No, actually, they are $UNAVAILABLE and $SOLD OUT.
Parent
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Not every article has to be about the games you know...
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Re:it's the games, stupid (Score:5, Funny)
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Which is exactly the point I'm highlighting. He's looking at them not as game consoles, but as video players, which is a completely useless comparison. Anyone interested in next-generation video can have (or already does have) a co
Analog Hole (Score:4, Funny)
In addition, this will probably be the first time that the lack of a analog hole will actually result in a large number of people being screwed.
(its a joke)
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Soooo... They didn't "get it" with the iPod?
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Soooo... They didn't "get it" with the iPod?
Correct. They did not get DRM force-fed down their throats with the iPod.
It's not like buying from the iTunes Store (which requires DRM) is mandatory for using the iPod (which does not).
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I'm seeing otherwise. There's some annoyance in the UK at the moment that a lot of screens without HDMI were sold a couple of years ago as "hi-def ready", but it seems the average consumer just understands that this TV "isn't compatible" with their Sky box or the upcoming movie players. They don't feel the need to apportion blame, either - consumers are just used to electr
Add-on peripherals (like drives) to consoles... (Score:4, Insightful)
-Sega CD, 32X, etc.
No one wants to buy extra hardware to play games and these add-ons better be dirt cheap if they expect anyone to pick them up for HD-DVD playback. That and why is there even a need to replace DVD as it stands for most people?
I understand the benefits of blue-ray and HD-DVD for computer storage for applications like games, archiving, etc. But console history is filled with failed peripherals.
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MS has said [gamespot.com] the player will be only used for movies. It seems like (assuming you want an HD-DVD player at all) a decent price if you already own a 360, but otherwise not so much otherwise. A quick check at Best Buy and Circuit City's websites for "HD-DVD Player" puts it at $200 for the add-on, about $500 for a stand alone player. Although I guess a Cor
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But as a user it can really add to them or even save them. Years ago I had a commodore CDTV [wikipedia.org], one of those vcr like units. But I don't think any games came out for it (apart from Lemmings which was great!). The only thing the saved it was that you get an external amiga floppy drive with it that allowed you to play standard Amiga games on it. Might have been old games at the time, but as a ten year old, I didn't know the difference.
Re:Add-on peripherals (like drives) to consoles... (Score:4, Insightful)
as for the sales of the add-on, there is no large critical mass required - as long as MS dont overproduce them and sell the minimum amount needed to cover costs then it wont be a problem.
Parent
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If they can sell an entire PS3 for $600... (Score:2)
Seriously, what is up with this HD format war? The first HD format that becomes affordable (and actually works) on the PC platform is the HD format I'll be adopting. I'm not alone. This *is* a race, but somehow it seems like both sides *want* to lose.
And the winner is... (Score:3, Insightful)
The format that first/most conviniently gets ripped and XvidD'ed.
The main reason for the PS3? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Why are we advertising this failed format war... (Score:5, Informative)
they were announced months ago, and despite being advertised everywhere sales are lack luster to non-existent.
everyone on slashdot got it right.. it didn't offer anything substantially different to dvd.. was much more expensive, and imposes incredibly confusing, draconian, and prohibitively expensive DRM schemes.
heck.. in my local area theyre running ads trying to get people interested by directing them to a website where they explain the rediculously complicated HDTV crap.. (why your component won't play at full 1080 p---probably lying about it too to gloss over the whole DRM point like all the ad nazis do)
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The difference is that there were about four people in that backlash watching eight films between them. The real dominant format was VHS; laserdisc was just a museum piece to most people.
Now almost everyone has a DVD player and a pile of movies and are not sitting in front of their TV going "Jesus, this is crap quality. I wish there was something better", which was what a lot of people WERE saying about VHS.
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Anyways, you do raise a good point, to the normal consumer Bluray/HDDVD do not offer the nearly as great advantages over DVD as DVD did over VHS. That said, I still pretty confident that an HD format will overtake DVDs. While I doubt many normal consumers will be buying HD formats for the next few years, t
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That's a very good point, we shall see.
I have to say the difference is stunning. I don't know if it's enough to co
Re:Why are we advertising this failed format war.. (Score:4, Informative)
Anyone can release a good DVD or a really bad DVD of the same content. It's not a difference of resolution, but in compression and other factors. Cable and satellite feeds that are Standard Def are commonly compressed to the point of being blocky, just so they can force as many channels as possible through the pipe. They might be the same nominal resolution as DVD, but that doesn't mean they deliver the same (or the potential) video quality of that resolution.
HD obviously has higher potential quality, but a poorly mastered Blu-ray could easily be no better than DVD; consider the source quality and the technical expertise dedicated to it (shovelware) as potential factors.
Since broadcast is heavily compressed, the low-end of Standard Def programming can approach VHS quality. Since those same opperators want to sell HD, they can make the difference look far more dramatically different by providing decent HD and poor SD feeds. Conversely, until there is a huge demand for BR or HD-DVD, they won't necessarily offer some huge leap in quality over DVD, particularly since the majority of TV watchers don't have high end HD capacity anyway.
The market also has a reputation for settling on "good enough." Standards fixated on overshooting good enough have a long history of going nowhere.
BetaMax was technically and mechanically superior in certain ways to VHS.
LaserDisc was clearly and obviously superior to VHS.
CD offered outstandingly superior sound over cassette tape, but didn't catch on for many years (82-89)
SACD, DVD audio, and DAT offered various advantages that were overwhelmed by excessive DRM and a general disinterest in the high end.
The Danger of DRM [roughlydrafted.com]
5 Success Factors for Next Generation Game Consoles [roughlydrafted.com]
iPod vs Zune: A Buyer's Guide [roughlydrafted.com]
Parent
Re:Why are we advertising this failed format war.. (Score:2)
I think the main reason we haven't seen any substantial use of the new formats is because it's just too soon. We've just recently reached the point where DVDs are ubiquitous. Everybody has a player, the price of the media is fairly reasonable, and the average person has a fairly substantial DVD collection going.
Even if the difference were substantial, I wouldn't buy them right now. I'm too far invested in DVDs and that investment has been over too short of a time, in my opinion, to essentially scrap th
It is a numbers game (Score:2)
On the other hand, there will be at least as much Blu-Ray players as PS3s.
At the end, the war is not about technology but numbers.
HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray (Score:5, Funny)
I think the choice is obvious.
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This conjures up images of large breasts (the double-d) and STDs (V.D.) Also, I've heard that some junkies refer to heroin simply as "H".
So, if said in the right way, HDDDVD could be interperated as "Herion, gigantic boobs, venereal disease"
It might not be the image HD-DVD manufacturers are looking for, but it'd sound good (properly used) in a gangsta' rap song.
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To someone uniformed, the name "HD-DVD" doesn't stand out, it sort of sounds like "HDTV" and sort of like "DV
Actually I'd argue HD-DVD is a much better name (Score:2)
Blu-ray, however, nobody knows what it is. Sony actu
The PS3 does 1080p just fine. (Score:3, Informative)
So in order to suffer the downscaling, you need a really crappy HDTV which doesn't support 1080p AND 720p.
Personally, I'd be more frustrated at a lack of HDMI on my HD content player as any moderately decent HDTV support either of those two modes fine.
Re:The PS3 does 1080p just fine. (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
I have both, let's clear the air (Score:3, Informative)
1. The difference in picture and sound quality between HD-DVD / Blu-Ray and DVD is roughly the same as the jump in quality from VHS/LD to DVD. I've run numerous side-by-side comparison tests using the King Kong DVD & HD-DVD, as well as older films like Casablanca and Blazing Saddles. Much depends on the master & source material, but the difference is undeniable.
Now, that might not be enough to save either format. Most people didn't buy DVD for the increased quality, they bought it for the convenience of random access, and the decreased physical size / increased durability of the media vs. VHS tapes. HD-DVD / Blu-Ray don't offer any of these increases over the standard DVD.
2. The formats are almost identical in many key areas. Both play back the same video codecs (MPEG2, VC1, H.264), so when it comes down to it the films available on both formats are often identical. It all comes down to how the source material was mastered. Early blu-ray releases (5th Element) took a lot of knocks because the films are still mastered in the older MPEG2 format. Most newer films are encoded in the nicer Microsoft VC-1 standard, and look absolutely stunning.
3. The Playstation 3 absolutely does 1080p playback for blu-ray movies, when equipped with an HDMI cable. (Get a quality one for http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm for both formats. While $20-35 / movie is too steep for my blood, Netflix carries both, and prices are similar to first-gen DVD.
Pure speculation: Combo players are probably going to show up in '07, and once this blue laser shortage horseshit gets resolved, I'd expect prices to fall by 100% in '07, and the $100 combo player will probably arrive in '08. By '09 or '10 you won't even be able to buy a standard DVD player anymore. By this time it won't matter because they'll have been cracked as thoroughly as DVD before them.
Any other questions, I'll be happy to answer.
Re:I have both, let's clear the air (Score:5, Informative)
Lots of FUD floating around this response thread. I happen to own both a PS3 and an XBox 360 with HD-DVD add-on, along with a television that does them both justice. Here's some facts:
1. The difference in picture and sound quality between HD-DVD / Blu-Ray and DVD is roughly the same as the jump in quality from VHS/LD to DVD. I've run numerous side-by-side comparison tests using the King Kong DVD & HD-DVD, as well as older films like Casablanca and Blazing Saddles. Much depends on the master & source material, but the difference is undeniable.
Now, that might not be enough to save either format. Most people didn't buy DVD for the increased quality, they bought it for the convenience of random access, and the decreased physical size / increased durability of the media vs. VHS tapes. HD-DVD / Blu-Ray don't offer any of these increases over the standard DVD.
2. The formats are almost identical in many key areas. Both play back the same video codecs (MPEG2, VC1, H.264), so when it comes down to it the films available on both formats are often identical. It all comes down to how the source material was mastered. Early blu-ray releases (5th Element) took a lot of knocks because the films are still mastered in the older MPEG2 format. Most newer films are encoded in the nicer Microsoft VC-1 standard, and look absolutely stunning.
3. The Playstation 3 absolutely does 1080p playback for blu-ray movies, when equipped with an HDMI cable. (Get a quality one for less than $10 at monoprice.com.) The XBox 360 absolutely does 1080p playback over component or VGA. Most HDTV's don't support 1080p over component or VGA (even my 2006 model Sony doesn't). Sadly, since the HDMI folks demand that all HDMI connectors be HDMI-only, and they disallow meta-connectors like the one on the 360, it seems unlikely that there will ever be an XBox 360 HDMI connector.
4. Some older HDTV's only do 1080i or 480p, and won't process signals in 720p up to 1080i. The hoohah is because the Playstation 3 also won't process 720p signals up to 1080i, but instead will downprocess these signals to 480p. Sony's already stated that they're working on a fix for this that will be pushed down via mandatory firmware update in the near future.
5. The newer audio formats, Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD, are decoded at the player and then sent to the receiver for playback. The lack of analog outputs means that these decoded formats can't be sent from a ps3 or a 360 to an older receiver. With a newer receiver, the PS3 can send these audio formats out via HDMI. The lack of HDMI outputs from the 360 means that these decoded formats can't be sent out from that system at all. That's too bad, because the difference in sound quality is pretty nice, and a definite upgrade over existing DTS / Dolby Digital. However, the 360 does downconvert these new signals to the highest bitrate of Dolby Digital possible (640K). There's an improvement over the sound quality of a DVD here, but not a big enough one you'd notice without listening to A/B comparisons.
6. The 360 HD-DVD drive has nothing to do with gaming. It's for movie playback only. It's also a terrific value. For $200 ($160 with a sneaky coupon last month), you get a $35 remote, a $35 movie, and an external USB2 drive that's recognized by both macs and PCs as well as an XBox 360. This thing has been flying off the shelves since it was released. Since the major argument against using a game console as your primary playback device is that you're putting undue wear on the system's drive, this means that I can now use the 360 as my primary DVD / HD-DVD playback device. That's great, because the 360 is a fantastic DVD player.
7. The formats are far from stillborn. Around 100 titles have been released for each format in the first year. Amazon sales data is tracked at http://www.thedvdwars.com/inde [thedvdwars.com]
Parent