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Solar Boat To Cross the Atlantic

Posted by kdawson on Sun Sep 17, 2006 05:45 PM
from the sun-and-sea dept.
Roland Piquepaille writes, "A group from Switzerland will soon attempt the first Atlantic crossing in a solar-powered boat. This ship, named SUN21, is a 14-meter-long catamaran able to sleep 5 or 6 persons. The goal is to leave Seville, Spain, in December 2006 and to reach ports in Florida and New York in the spring of 2007. This boat will achieve its 7,000-mile trip at a speed of 5-6 knots, about the speed of a sailing yacht, by using photovoltaic cells and without burning a single gallon of fuel. The consortium behind this project wants to demonstrate that the time has come for solar boats." The boat will cost about $556,000 to build and it will be for sale at some point after its crossing.
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  • Been Done Already (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 17 2006, @05:49PM (#16126608)
    Every sailing vessel is basically a solar powered boat. Been doing that for eons. Why change now?

    Catboats with sails makes a very reliable clip night and day with little or no fancy technology - and can easily be mated up to such a solar-panel system for an added kick and redundancy...

    • I can't see $500k price tags being mainstream fro a while.

      I'd have serious concerns about reliability etc. too. Consider that many sailing adventures end up with broken masts and similar misfortunes that people are able to recover from because they're using ancient technology. They can put together something that sails from broken masts and torn sails etc and limp in to port. Fixing up broken PV is probably not something you can just do armed with a hammer, saw and a knife.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        . . .people are able to recover from because they're using ancient technology.

        When I can I even like to avoid winches and wire rigging. Ropes, block and tackle may fail slightly more often, but they're easier to handle and easier to create jury rigs out of when the shit hits the sails.

        Wire's for racers and dock sailors. Quite frankly, if you really need wire just to hold your mast up you've fucked up your engineering.

        PV's good for a bit of luxury now and again, but I would never ever bet my life at sea on i
    • "Every sailing vessel is basically a solar powered boat. Been doing that for eons. Why change now?"

      They're not changing away from sailing vessels now, the whole industry changed over 100 years ago. They are using a solar-powered, propellor driven vessel which - if the tachnology advances - will have many quite obvious advantages over traditional sailing vessels.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        They're not changing away from sailing vessels now, the whole industry changed over 100 years ago. They are using a solar-powered, propellor driven vessel which - if the tachnology advances - will have many quite obvious advantages over traditional sailing vessels.

        Yes, but modern sailing vessels have many quite obvious advantages over photovoltaic, as well as over traditional sailing vessels. Sailing technology hasn't stood still in the last hundred years, you know. Sailing vessels are faster - a lot fa

  • Why would you want to do this rather than using wind power and ocean currents?
    • Re:why? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by spun (1352) <loverevolutionary&yahoo,com> on Sunday September 17 2006, @05:52PM (#16126623) Journal
      Because wind and currents don't always go in the direction you might want them to?
      • Re:why? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Millenniumman (924859) on Sunday September 17 2006, @06:24PM (#16126798)
        Why does that matter? Sailboats can go in any direction other than straight into the wind. They aren't pushed forward by it.
        • I know that. But solar powered boats can go in any direction with the same efficiency. Sailboats for the most part do best on a broad reach. And solar can power batteries for when there's no sun. I've never seen a wind battery for when there's no wind.
          • Even with batteries, the overall speed for this ship isn't better than a far cheaper sailboat. The ocean is generally windy, but it is only sunny during the day, and batteries are extremely inefficient and heavy.
        • Re:why? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by lowfatsugar (972297) on Sunday September 17 2006, @10:48PM (#16127755)
          1. Effectively, sailboats can go "straight into the wind" by zigzagging (tacking). Unfortunately, this doesn't work so well in narrow channels (e.g. rivers). In this regard, the solar ship would have an edge, particularly on heavily used rivers.

          2. As many people here have pointed out, sailboats have been around for a very long time, meaning that we've had a lot of time to improve their design and construction. If the first generation of a solar ship can be competitive with current generation sailboats, I think that this bodes well for the solar ship in the long haul.

          3. Owing to the enormous forces involved in propelling a large ship using wind, the design, construction and operation of sailing vessels can be quite expensive. Half a million for a boat that can cross the Atlantic doesn't seem so bad, especially for a first-generation custom-built effort. With large scale production, I would expect to see prices come down.

          4. The masts, sails and standing rigging of a sailing vessel seem incompatible with modern top-loading cargo facilities, whereas I can imagine that a solar boat could be designed for compatibility with existing port equipment.

          5. Although batteries weigh a lot, so does fuel. And, unlike cars and trucks driving cross-country, ships crossing an ocean don't have the luxury of refueling, so they have to carry it all with them. On a solar-powered ship, you just need enough battery capacity to get you through cloudy patches.

          I'm not 100% convinced it'll work, but the idea has merit.
        • With a trimaran design, one could make a low displacement ship with a huge deck area. Of course, there's always the cloudy day to mess things up, but with enough batteries on cuold get through a day or two. Really though, this isn't about efficiency, it's more of a "Look what we can do." kind of thing, and a good starting point for research into marine solar applications. How much does salt water effect common types of solar panels? What's the most efficient type of motor for this application? What's the be
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Because they can. :)
    • Because it's expensive, obviously.
    • Once that's established a solar/convenional Sail hybrid is the logical next step.

      It's a proof of technology, not a planned usurper to sail power, at least that's how I see it.
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          What if the sails themselves were solar panels?

          What if solar and sail were not concurrent? (solar for sunny days and no wind)

          What if the solar panels primary purpose was to store energy to run on-board systems and for docking?

          There are many iterations here, but it's an idea worth pursuit. (I think)
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      It's a Roland Pigpail article. It's delusional. No need to worry.
  • Wow (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 17 2006, @05:51PM (#16126613)
    Finally, an alternative to the environmentally dangerous effects of the sail.
    • I'm all for technology where technology is needed, but I hate it when people try to put technology where it doesn't belong. It's one thing to do this as an experiment, to show that it can be done, it's another thing to say that we are now at the point where we should be using solar boats regularly. It's like those washing machines with the 600 different washing modes. Nobody really needs all that, we only need maybe 5 or 6. There's no point to building stuff like this, and it only adds more points of fa
      • Sails ships are fairly slow in crossing the Atlantic. Maybe this will be a faster way with propellers. Sails takes months to cross, prop boats take days.

        • At 5-6 knots this boat will be passed by even the slowest sail boat that can safely cross the atlantic today.

          sailboats themselves use solar, and sometimes even a mini wind turbine to keep their electronic systems charged while saving gas for real emergencies.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Are you honestly implying that solar panels are worse for the environment than nuclear power plants? Are you willing to keep nuclear waste in you garage for thousands of years?
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Experimental prototypes and test beds sure. That doesn't justify "the consortium behind this project wants to demonstrate that the time has come for solar boats." Just like the guy who flew across the English channel by pedaling. It was cool and it demonstrated some advanced aeronautical design but he didn't claim that the time has come for pedal powered flight.
    • Re:Wow (Score:4, Informative)

      by westlake (615356) on Sunday September 17 2006, @06:28PM (#16126829)
      Finally, an alternative to the environmentally dangerous effects of the sail.

      The North Atlantic is one of the most hostile environments on earth

      ---and they plan to make the crossing in January on solar power at a speed of 5 knots?

      This is nuts.

  • by mr_stinky_britches (926212) on Sunday September 17 2006, @05:56PM (#16126644) Homepage Journal
    But how much oil did it take to make the solar cells?
    • by CastrTroy (595695) on Sunday September 17 2006, @06:07PM (#16126705) Homepage
      How much oil did it take for you to submit that comment? How much oil is it taking me to submit this comment. You can't discount the use of a technology just because the industries that support the technology aren't up to snuff. It's completely possible to produce solar panels without oil, and we shouldn't not use them because it currently requires industries that use oil in one way or another. I mean, at that rate, you might as well discount wood boats, because unless you're picking up the wood off the ground and tying it together with some hemp rope you managed to make yourself, then you're probably using a lot of oil in the process.
    • But how much oil did it take to make the solar cells?

      Certainly no more than some percentage of its wholesale cost (cost of manufacturing includes cost of materials, energy, labor, and lots of other things like marketing, licensing fees, etc.) Panels usually pay back their RETAIL cost in a few years (depends on the area you are in, if you use a tracking mount which grossly increases their daily output, etc.) There's a substanial net gain, since they easily last another decade past their break-even point

  • by creimer (824291) on Sunday September 17 2006, @06:03PM (#16126689) Homepage
    What if the sun doesn't shine at all during the journey? After all, there's a lot of funky weather patterns going on these days.
  • Will it run (embedded) Linux to control the solar cells, battery, motor, etc.?
    • That takes the fun out of sailing a boat, in the first place. Sorry, some things are better left to the devices of man instead of machine.
  • Wind-powered boats?
  • This seems utterly useless. I could see adding a bit of solar for thew little bit you'd use an engine (getting into port, etc) but reports suggest people who LIVE on sail boats year round only use about $1500 worth of diesel in a year (depending on price, this figure was from a few years ago).

    Its not like they're sucking the well dry everyday.
    • If you drive in a 20 mpg car, 10,000 miles per year, with $3 gas prices, you pay $1500 dollars per year for gas. Thats a rather inefficient car with less efficient, expensive fuel, greater speed, and no sail. This boat is useless, but imagine covering a giant non-nuclear gas powered ship with solar panels.
      • and a storm/stategic attack completely cripples the ship.
        Also is there any numbers on whether or not you could cover a giant tanker-like ship with enough solar panels to get it to move at an acceptable speed?
  • And most of us can't afford a 2 month journey to cross the Atlantic - even if is only costs a half a million dollars.

    Well, I guess it is an improvement over Kon-Tiki [wikipedia.org] which only had an ave speed of 1.5 knots. But at least it didn't use all this new-fangled technology!

    If transportation advancement followed CPU speed or Disk Drive storage - whoa nelly! We'd be burning our nads off, zipping around!

  • Oceans are great. Nothing in the way (bar a few icebergs and whales), few hills, low friction and its everywhere... well 2/3 of everywhere. Great for transporting huge amounts of stuff all over the world. Solar power not so much. Its only light for a few hours a day, its really hard to store, unless your a plant, and our currently technology extracts just over a third of the 1kW per square meter. I know container ships are measured in football pitches, but most of that surface area is doing something alread
  • by mh101 (620659) on Sunday September 17 2006, @06:32PM (#16126860)
    Okay, so we currently have the ability to have the front page not show articles posted by specific Slashdot editors. How about expanding that, so we can specify specific submitters, such as Roland Piquepaille for example, who's articles don't show up?

  • From the article: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fredmosby (545378) on Sunday September 17 2006, @06:33PM (#16126866)
    the ship will undertake the first motorized crossing of the Atlantic without using a drop of gasoline

    Except for all the nuclear powered ships and submarines.
  • by fire-eyes (522894) on Sunday September 17 2006, @06:55PM (#16126979) Homepage
    Voice Over Mr. and Mrs. Watson of 'Ivy Cottage', Worplesdon Road, Hull, chose a very cunning way of not being seen. When we called at their house, we found that they had gone away on two weeks holiday. They had not left any forwading address, and they had bolted and barred the house to prevent us getting in. However a neighbour told us where there were.

    The camera has come to rest on a very obvious isolated beach hut; it blows up. Cut to a building site in a suburban housing estate. There is a Gumby standing there.

    Voice Over And here is the neighbour who told us where they were (he blows up) Nobody likes a clever dick. (cut to stock film of a small house) Here is where he lived (it blows up) And this is where Lord Langdon lived who refused to speak to us (it blows up). So did the gentleman who lived here....(shot of house: it blows up)... and here ...(ditto) and of course here.....(a series of quick cuts of various atom bombs and hydrogen bomb at moment of impact) and Manchester and the West Midlands, Spain, China ...(mad laugh)

    Cut to a presentation desk. The film is on a screen behind. We see it stop behind him as the presenter speaks.

          Presenter Ah, well I'm afraid we have to stop the film there, as some of the scenes which followed were of a violent nature which might have proved distressing to some of our viewers. Though not to me, I can tell you.

    (cut to another camera; the presenter turns to face it,)

    In Nova Scotia today, Mr Roy Bent of North Walsham in Norfolk became the first man to cross the Atlantic on a tricycle. His tricycle, specially adapted for the crossing, was ninety feet long, with a protective steel hull, three funnels, seventeen first-class cabins and a radar scanner. (A head and shoulders picture of Roy Bent comes up on the screen behind him) Mr Bent is in our Durham studios, which is rather unfortunate as we're all down here in London. And in London I have with me Mr Ludovic Grayson, the man who scored all six goals in Arsenal's 1-0 victory over the Turkish Champions FC Botty. (he turns) Ludovic... (pull out to reveal that he is talking to a five-foot-high filing cabinet) first of all, congratulations on the victory.

          Mr Grayson (from inside filing cabinet) Thank you, David.

    Anyway, very silly stuff, you get the point.

    http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode24.htm#11 [ibras.dk]

  •       You run into a dark, cloudy storm, and lose power. And the worse the storm is, the less chance you have of developing any power. For some reason, that doesn't sound like much more than a one-off gimmick to me.

          Yes, you could store energy in batteries, but storing enough power to get that boat very far in storm winds means a LOT of weight, which means a lower draft, more resisitance, and the need for more panels....

    steve
  • Hybrid (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dan East (318230) on Sunday September 17 2006, @07:05PM (#16127047) Homepage
    I think what's most interesting about this is hybrid vessels, that use both sail and solar power. Obviously the big limitation with sailboats is a lack of wind, which often occurs in fair-weather scenarios (high pressure system, thus clear skies). Solar propulsion would often complement wind power when needed most. It would also be useful for the other times when sail power is not used, such as navigating in and out of the docks.

    Dan East
  • by drDugan (219551) * on Sunday September 17 2006, @07:40PM (#16127221) Homepage
    time for what? really expensive toys that take several months to get across the Altantic?

    anything but mainstream.

  • Nice idea, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by pete314159 (858893) on Sunday September 17 2006, @08:28PM (#16127416)
    From the web-page: "Much of the expanding long-distance goods traffic on our oceans as well as many leisure boats could be powered by ecological solar energy. Solar energy will be the future of navigation techniques. But it needs more publicity and more confidence."

    It sounds nice, but the practical application for the actual transportation of goods is something else.

    The great things about ships is that the volume increases as a cubic function (roughly) of the length, but the drag only increases as the square. The area available to solar energy is more like a direct linear relationship to length what with ships being kind of long and skinny. That means that you can eventually build a ship big enough to carry it's own fuel to cross an ocean, and if you go bigger it can carry cargo even. Bigger still means more cargo with less fuel per cargo needed (generally). This is why we now have 1000 foot long container ships and 300,000 DWT ULCCs (Ultra Large Crude Carriers). But these ships that require less energy per volume still require a *lot* of energy, and not just energy, put power too (they need that energy fast). For example, the ship I work on (600 feet long by 75 feet wide, about 20,000 GRT--small by today's standards) requires about 14,000 horsepower to travel at about 17 knots when fully loaded. Just using a crude area approximation for the ship's dimensions and, say, 33% efficiency for solar cells you would get about 1630 kW of power, or about 2180 horsepower. 2180 horsepower won't even move a ship that size fast enough to maintain steerage. This isn't even mentioning the other auxiliary electrical loads associated with a ship (pumps, motors, air conditioning, sewage processing, etc.). Factoring average load for my ship in to that, you get about 1000 kW (1350 HP) available for propulsion. This is like trying to row a canoe with a spoon. Of course, if you don't put anything in the ship power consumption goes way down and you eventually get to the point where you have a boat like what they're using. But what business that makes money by moving lots of goods from A to B on a schedule is going to build a fleet of boats that can't carry anything and go very slowly? Maybe recreational boaters, but I don't see it so much for the commercial shipping industry.

    I do wish them fair winds and following seas for their crossing, and hope that they are indeed correct that "Solar energy will be the future of navigation techniques" if for no other reason than we need to, as a society, start reducing out carbon footprint. As an engineer (a marine engineer, at that), though, I see a very long a tortuous path ahead.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Yes, but this boat will (apparently) have no sails. It's sort of a 'look at me, no hands' exercise carried forward to spending a 1/2 million dollars to say so.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Actually half a million isn't unreasonable for a brand new 46' Trans-Atlantic capable powerboat / sailboat.
        Price out a nice new Sea Ray Sundancer, last I checked their Sundancer 460 (roughly 46' of real space, like 51' tip to tip) model runs between half and three quarters of a Meg.

        That said, I like the earlier idea of making the sails out of solar collector material (memories of Tron come to mind) and using that juice to fill up the batteries, run those the massive electric motors like this thing does.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Try about 1000 years, Columbus wasn't the 1st, The vikings used sailing ships too.
    • But... If Fossil fuels runout, you can't make enough energy needed to produce mass quantities of solar panels and fiber glass.. But I could still fell a tree, build a sail boat and eventually make a sail.

      So, Solar loses, wind wins!

      Good ol' `wind'. Nothin' beats that...