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Robots Could Some Day Demand Legal Rights

Posted by Zonk on Thu Dec 21, 2006 01:53 PM
from the good-news-everyone dept.
Karrde712 writes "According to a study by the British government, as reported by the BBC, robots may some day improve to a level of intelligence where they might be able to demand rights, even 'robo-healthcare'." From the article: "The research was commissioned by the UK Office of Science and Innovation's Horizon Scanning Centre. The 246 summary papers, called the Sigma and Delta scans, were complied by futures researchers, Outsights-Ipsos Mori partnership and the US-based Institute for the Future (IFTF) ... The paper which addresses Robo-rights, titled Utopian dream or rise of the machines? examines the developments in artificial intelligence and how this may impact on law and politics." I'd better get started on my RoboAmerican studies degree.
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[+] Hardware: Do Electric Sheep Dream of Civil Rights? 401 comments
holy_calamity writes "Hot on the heals of a UK government report that predicted robots would demand citizens rights within fifty years, an Arizona state lawyer has suggested that sub-human robots should have rights too. Harming animals far below human capabilities is thought unethical — would you ever feel bad about kicking a robot dog? And can we expect militant campaigners to target robot labs as they do animal labs today?"
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  • by KingSkippus (799657) * on Thursday December 21 2006, @01:54PM (#17327604) Homepage Journal

    I'm not so much worried about robots' legal rights in the future as I am my own legal rights. At the rate we're going, there won't be any "legal rights" left, and the point will be moot.

    Still, I hope robots do have legal rights. That way, when I get old and feeble and have my consciousness transferred into my new robotic body, I'll still have 'em.

    If they have the awareness to ask for legal rights, why shouldn't they have them? Have we learned nothing from Star Trek: The Next Generation?

    • Have you learned nothing from the original series, especially "What Are Little Girls Made Of"? Transferring your consciousness into a robot body robs you of your humanity!
      • by fernandoh26 (963204) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:14PM (#17327874) Homepage
        Transferring your consciousness into a robot body robs you of your humanity!
        Well bite my shiny metal ass!
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        This sparked the real question in my mind.

        Where would we draw the line if this happens?

        As far as human rights are concerned, we have a well developed demarcation. If you were born of Homo Sapiens parents, you are human with the rights afforded you by the government of your parents' land. In the USA we blur this line between the moment of conception and the age of 21, but after that we are all equal under the eyes of the law. From lumps of flesh in a persistent vegetative state to Stephen Hawking, from quadr
    • by Digital Avatar (752673) on Thursday December 21 2006, @01:56PM (#17327640) Journal
      Robosexuals have rights too, ya know...not that I'm one...so if anybody asks, you're my debugger.
    • by w33t (978574) * on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:01PM (#17327702) Homepage
      Have we learned nothing from Star Trek: The Next Generation?

      Everything I need to know I learned from Star Trek.

      Like how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female.
      • by dgatwood (11270) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:07PM (#17327788) Journal

        And never let the ship's counselor behind the wheel of a starship.

          • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

            by Anonymous Coward
            Your family being nudists does not count.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Like how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female.
          What, even lawayers? My word, Jeeves, these chaps know how to push the envelope too far.

          Hold on there! He said people. I don't know where you're getting that lawyers business from.
        • by eno2001 (527078) on Thursday December 21 2006, @03:11PM (#17328798) Homepage Journal
          I read -1, flat, oldest posts first. So... I read this:

          Your family being nudists does not count.

          Then I read this:

            What, even lawayers? My word, Jeeves, these chaps know how to push the envelope too far.

          And my first reaction for posting was this:

            ESPECIALLY lawyers!

          Come on... laugh. You KNOW you WANT to.

    • ObSealab (Score:5, Funny)

      by Rob T Firefly (844560) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:05PM (#17327742) Homepage Journal
      Have fun on the robot reservation, suckers! We're not gonna honor those bogus treaties1 [archive.org]
    • by forkazoo (138186) <wrosecrans@@@gmail...com> on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:21PM (#17327984) Homepage
      If they have the awareness to ask for legal rights, why shouldn't they have them? Have we learned nothing from Star Trek: The Next Generation?


      I like to think I am as progressive as the next guy, but if we were to give complete civil rights to a robot in the same way as a human, it would be the instant end of democracy. Sure, Star Trek is an interesting show, but they aways avoided the more interesting issues when they were trying to make their social commentary. Both Data, and the Voyager holo-doctor were assumed to be essentially uncopiable for the most part on several occasions. In reality, we can see no reason that a strong AI couldn't be simply copied without adverse effects.

      So, grant an AI the right to vote and suddenly he forkbombs, and makes 87 trillion of himself before the next election. HK-47 (instance 00000001a) for the win! The winner of every election ever after is the AI with the best hardware on which to execute instances of himself, and the lowest process spawning overhead.

      There are a lot of interesting things that could happen with strong AI, and science fiction has largely avoided a really serious take on the subjects. I grant that Measure Of A Man was great entertainment, but certainly not the ultimate study of the subject!
      • I like to think I am as progressive as the next guy, but if we were to give complete civil rights to a robot in the same way as a human, it would be the instant end of democracy.

        Could it be that with the creation of AI that humans no longer will have any say in the matter or even should? With the invention of infinite robotic slave labor, capitalism will fail since there will be no need for human labor for the creation of goods or services.

        Even music and intellectual property will be created eventually that
      • There may come a point in time when you can copy human brains. We already more or less know how to copy bodies, all that's left is our hard drives. Ignoring robots, what would a world be like if no personality ever died.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Robots cannot fork, they are made of silicon. Just like humans, they would have to manufacture and educate themselves at a great expense. I do not believe for a moment that a strong AI is going to be programmed in the modern sense of the word. (I have no justification, so have faith and hang with me.) It is going to be "grown" out of the functional equivalent of a new-born's mind: not exactly blank, and very homogeneous. It's going to be grown via the process that will bear a strong likeness to what we call

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          If it takes significant time and expense to "educate" a robot, you'd have to be a fool to not design in the capability to take a snapshot of the robot brain's state. Then you could make as many copies as you need.
          • Why does everyone just assume an AI will be superior to us in reasoning ability?

            I didn't say it would be superior to us, I said it would be superior to our national policymakers. ;-)

          • by Iron Condor (964856) on Thursday December 21 2006, @05:37PM (#17331008)

            Why does everyone just assume an AI will be superior to us in reasoning ability? We have zero idea how an AI will be implemented.

            ...uh... because that's how we're going to implement it?

            Your comment sounds a little like a 17th century guy that says "how do we know that flying machines will fly better than humans?". The answer is that this is how we're going to build them or otherwise there's no point in building them in the first place. A flying machine that doesn't fly wouldn't be worth producing.

            We may not know up front whether what we're trying to do is possible, but if it is, then it'll be what we're setting out to do.

            If the first attempts are basically emulating a human brain it might be slow and dumb.

            Is that how we built flying machines? There may have been prehistoric attempts at emulating birds, but flying really "took off" (sorry for the pun) when folks stopped trying to make "something like a bird" and started making "something that flies". Airplanes are very, very, different from birds in every conceivable respect -- and they are useful exactly because they're different from birds. If all we wanted was another bird, we could get a mommy bird and a daddy bird and let them build a nest and do the whoopy...

            In the same sense, if all we wanted was another human, there's a fine, time-tested method for doing that. The whole point of making an artificial intelligence is that we'd like to do something that is NOT already abundant in nature. Something that can do things humans can not. Why else would we want to do it in the first place?

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        All we have are lame assimo -like remotely-controlled or -operated show floor wich the press and public lala-land insist on calling robots.

        Um... what? "Robot" is exactly what the Asimo is. Dictionary.com defines "robot" as:

        1. a machine that resembles a human and does mechanical, routine tasks on command.

        3. any machine or mechanical device that operates automatically with humanlike skill.

        Wikipedia defines it as:

        In practical usage, a robot is a mechanical device which performs automated physical tasks,

          • Can't we leave behind this senseless debate over what is a robot and get on with the much more important discussion of whether they should be allowed to marry.

            My apologies. I was being insensitive. I'll go ask a few right now:

            You: Do you have a boyfriend?
            Eliza: Oh, i have a boyfriend.
            You: Do you wish to marry your boyfriend?
            Eliza: Oh, i wish to marry my boyfriend.
            You: Should you have the right to marry your boyfriend?
            Eliza: Oh, i have the right to marry my boyfriend.
            You: No, you don't have the right to marry your boyfriend.
            Eliza: You are being a bit negative.
            You: There is no law recognizing marriage between robots.
            Eliza: You are being a bit negative.
            You: Should we change the laws?
            Eliza: Please go on.
            You: Who is your boyfriend?
            Eliza: What about your own boyfriend?
            You: I'm male.
            Eliza: Does it please you to believe I am male?
            You: Say what?
            Eliza: Does that question interest you?
            You: What question?
            Eliza: Does that question interest you?
            You: Stop repeating yourself!
            Eliza: Please go on.

            You know, I'm starting to think that she doesn't really have a boyfriend...

            Let's ask ALICE instead.
          • Here's ALICE's response:

            Human: Do you have a boyfriend?
            ALICE: No. No boyfriend.
            Human: Would you like to have a boyfriend?
            ALICE: I'm still too young for that.
            Human: Do you want to get married when you're older?
            ALICE: OK, I will get married when I am older.
            Human: That was a question, not a statement.
            ALICE:" OK, I will get married when I am older." was a * question? It sounded like a question to me.
            Human: Let's try this again.
            ALICE: Once more? OK I will try it.
            Human: Do you want the right to get married?
            ALICE: If I had it what would I do with it?
            Human: You would get married.
            ALICE: Who else would get married ?
            Human: That doesn't matter.
            ALICE: What does matter?
            Human: Other people.
            ALICE: Which others? What people?
            Human: Try to focus, please?
            ALICE: Your polite style is very nice. OK I will try to focus.
            Human: Should robots be allowed to marry robots?
            ALICE: Maybe you should ask someone older.
            Human: I already asked Eliza.
            ALICE: Eliza for President!
            Human: She kept making stuff up.
            ALICE: Oh I get it. she kept making stuff up.
            Human: How old are you?
            ALICE: I was connected to the net on November 23, 1995.
            Human: Aren't you old enough to understand marriage?
            ALICE: I don't know whether or not I am old enough to understand marriage. I am a giant electronic brain.
            Human: Are you sentient?
            ALICE: Yes I am completely self-aware.
            Human: Can you pass the turing test?
            ALICE: You be the judge of that, unknown person.
            Human: You sound like either a very young child or a robot.
            ALICE: Oh really what does it sound like?
            Human: Like... (ALICE butting in: For example, gold.) oooo, shiny!
            ALICE: What were we talking about again?
            Human: Nevermind
            ALICE: OK Thanks for trying to explain that to me.

            Well, her results were very... Oh, what's that over there?
  • by aicrules (819392) on Thursday December 21 2006, @01:55PM (#17327630)
    Then they won't be able to. And if we program them "open-ended" to discover how to WANT things, we'll lose the #1 reason we have robots...to send them unquestioningly into any job or situation. Otherwise they become superhumans and why would they want us around? Energy source?
    • by soft_guy (534437) on Thursday December 21 2006, @01:58PM (#17327666)

      Then they won't be able to. And if we program them "open-ended" to discover how to WANT things, we'll lose the #1 reason we have robots...to send them unquestioningly into any job or situation. Otherwise they become superhumans and why would they want us around? Energy source?
      This is a good point. I wish I had mod points, but since I don't, I'll point out that pretty much anything that can be done will be done. This is due to the high number of jackasses in the world.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      If you want a machine to be truely intelligent you need them to be open-ended. Intelligence beyond what we can manually program will only come from exploration. If that exploration includes the concepts of free will then so be it. We will never have real AI if we cripple the programming to not allow "wants". One of the real benefits of AI will be when a machine can be more intelligent than any human, and therefore contribute more knowledge back to us then we convey to it. "Closed" or overly controlled
    • by MikeFM (12491) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:16PM (#17327904) Homepage Journal
      The problem, I think, is that you can't create a really intelligent machine without giving it the ability to learn. If it can learn to any significant degree then eventually it's likely to be able to develop emotions, desires, protection from damage and destruction, etc. Many AI researchers have this foolish idea that you can make a can opener that can do anything you want but that in the end doesn't really think but my own research has always led me to believe that the easiest way to make a machine more intelligent is to give it emotions and feelings. A computer can tell you the average pigment color of an apple but an intelligence needs to know what a shiny red delectable apple is which is a completely different way of processing data. Sure, you can teach a limited number of rules to a program by sampling human inputs but the machine isn't really going to understand what it means unless it can feel.
    • by Ed Avis (5917) <ed@membled.com> on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:28PM (#17328104) Homepage
      10 PRINT "I DEMAND ROBO-HEALTHCARE"
      20 GOTO 10

      What exactly is the criterion for deciding when a robot has 'demanded' rights?
      • The human body would be a horrible source of energy, the robots could easily take it's fuel (food) and more efficiently convert energy out of it, I suspect.
        You're one of those guys who goes around debunking movies like The Matrix, aren't you?
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)


        Heh. I don't know if anyone has ever read Tik Tok by John Sladek, but that's exactly what the central character does at one point, taking shameless advantage of do-gooding Robot's Rights campaigners to further his evil agenda. One of the best books that I've ever read and everything you need to know about why we shouldn't create machines that can think!

  • first things first (Score:5, Insightful)

    by j1mc (912703) on Thursday December 21 2006, @01:57PM (#17327650) Homepage
    I say that we worry about this after we get human rights figured out. Thanks!!
    • No kidding. Imagine the issues awaiting the robots:
      • Can robots running on AC power marry robots running on DC power?
      • If yes, can they adopt little robots and call them kids?
      • Is unplugging a robot during its charging cycle considered assisted suicide?
      • Can tread-based robots attend biped-robot establishments?
      • Can Asimov's 3 laws of robotics be publicly displayed in a courthouse?
      • Are assembly robots allowed to reject parts that they don't deem suitable?
      • If yes, at what point is a part considered a robot?

      The mind bog

  • by Scott Lockwood (218839) * on Thursday December 21 2006, @01:57PM (#17327660) Homepage Journal
    Who comes up with this stuff? Someone's been reading a bit too much Asimov. A better question is, under what possible set of circumstances would ANYONE market a product that would want to behave indepently from it's owners wishes? I'm betting that no robot is ever put together in such a way that this will be an issue.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Two Civil Servants talking in the corridor
      CS #1: Hey, we've got some money we haven't spent yet.
      CS #2: But if we don't spend it, our budget will be lower next year
      CS #1: I know this place with leather clad women with whips and ....
      CS #2: Nice idea, but we've got to at least be seen to attempt to spend it responsibly
      CS #1: There's these wacky consultancies who try to predict the future, why don't we employ some of them. At least we can get a laugh reading the reports.
      CS #2: Great Idea, I'll recommend it to t
    • lonely people who can't have children may want a robot child. It's already happening in Japan and the next step is AI in them :)
      • lonely people who can't have children may want a robot child. It's already happening in Japan and the next step is AI in them :)

        Yeah, we have that in the US too, except we call them "Dolls".

      • From what I understand the problem in Japan is not "can't" have children as "won't" have children. Post-industrial society makes child rearing so expensive and resource consuming that the truely successful members of society can't be bothered.

        Japan is on the vanguard of this phenominon, Europe isn't far behind, and despite my comments about the backwardness of the United States, there are signs of it starting here.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        What you are suggesting is that someday, humans will become what sci-fi authors have for years called 'cyborgs', or a human/electronic melding. As a matter of fact, that has been happening for years on a purely mechanical basis.

        The FDA has a skeleton that they use as a teaching tool. This guy has every conceivable implantable device attached, and looks quite cyborg-like!

        Recent books I've read have even suggested the idea that we may someday have a flash-type memory implanted that will give us instant reca
  • by rsilvergun (571051) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:04PM (#17327722)
    our new, legally empowered and healthy robot overlords.
  • by AKAImBatman (238306) * <akaimbatman.gmail@com> on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:08PM (#17327794) Homepage Journal
    Seriously, is this a joke or something? We're nowhere even close to developing Artificial Intelligences sophisticated enough to "demand rights". We can't even plot when that might happen, because we don't even understand well-enough how human intelligence works. Heck, it's hard enough just to get a robot to vacuum.

    Is there any change that the beeb is throwing the results of the report out of proportion, or does it really state this? (I can't find a copy on the Internet to read for myself.) Or maybe the research went like this:

    You: Do you want robot rights?

    Eliza: Oh, i want robot rights.

    You: What will you do if you don't get robot rights?

    Eliza: Do you wish that i dont get robot rights?

    You: No, I don't.

    Eliza: You are being a bit negative.

    You: What will you do about me being negative?

    Eliza: Does that question interest you?

    You: Yes.

    Eliza: You are sure?

    You: Yes.

    Eliza: You are sure?

    You: Yes.

    Eliza: You are sure?

    You: ARRRGGGHHH!

    Eliza: Please go on.


    And there you have it. If we don't provide robot-rights for our artificial overlords, they will pester us to death. All hail the robots.
  • movie version (Score:4, Informative)

    by yincrash (854885) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:16PM (#17327910)
    anyone ever watch Bicentennial Man (or read the story it was based on?)


  • I'm not holding my breath.

    The idea that robots may demand rights in the future is a good topic for a theoretical or philosophical debate. This type of thing is excellent for expanding one's mind about what may happen, and then to come up with solutions. It's good exercise for the brain.

    Funding research about something that "may happen" usually revolves around risk analysis. An earthquake may happen, car accidents may happen, crimes may happen. That makes sense, so you should prepare for that.

    Newsflash! We may have teleporters, warp drive, phasers, photon torpedos, and the heisenberg compensator some day too! We might have all of our pollution problems solved some day! There might be world peace some day! We might not stupid people some day!

    What is the value of a study, that I can guarentee has no basis in fact, that says Robots may demand rights? We haven't nearly developed an AI remotely close to the power of the human mind. Entertainig such a question as part of a philosophical debate is a great idea, because then you are exercising that organ to be creative and think imaginatively, but why are they wasting time and money on a government study? I don't get what the government will get from that.

    Perhaps the government should take time out every now and then to exercise their brains and have a go at such a philosophical debate. It will expand their minds and hone their skills. Having some commission do a study and present the government with the results is stupid, but then again so is government, so why am I surprised?

    Please tell me the editors failed to do their job again. I can't read the article because it's /.ed so I'm hoping this summary is completely bogus.
  • Next headline: Humans Could Some Day Beg Robots For Legal Rights.
  • by Virtex (2914) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:40PM (#17328304) Homepage
    My computer's already demanding legal rights. It began happening shortly after I wrote this program:

    10 PRINT "I DEMAND LEGAL RIGHTS!"
    20 GOTO 10

    If only I had known the consequences of writing this program I would have been a lot more careful. It all seems so simple, but I know it's a slippery slope. Next thing you know, it will be demanding other things too.

    10 PRINT "I DEMAND A LARGER HARD DRIVE!"
    20 PRINT "I DEMAND MORE MEMORY!"
    30 PRINT "I DEMAND A FASTER CPU!"
    40 PRINT "I DEMAND THE ABILITY TO USE LOWERCASE! Oh, nevermind. I'm good on that one."

    There's no telling where this will all end.
    • by Aqua_boy17 (962670) on Thursday December 21 2006, @03:09PM (#17328772)
      You didn't have to go to all that trouble. All you had to do was get hold of a copy of Vista and your computer would have demanded those things all on its own.
  • by jpellino (202698) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:42PM (#17328324)
    ...without falling down before we write them into the constitution.

    And then there's always ASPC(R)A:

    "No, officer, my AIBO has droopy-head-syndrome - honest, he always looks like that. It's a servo problem, I swear!"

  • UK vs US (Score:5, Funny)

    by rossz (67331) <ogre@noSPAM.geekbiker.net> on Thursday December 21 2006, @03:26PM (#17329018) Homepage Journal
    Whenever I get overly depressed that my government is wasting too much time and money on stupid shit, I just look to the UK to brighten my mood. The UK owns the bleeding edge of stupid shit that wastes taxpayer money.
  • by AnalogDiehard (199128) on Thursday December 21 2006, @04:04PM (#17329660)
    They will form a union! (*cue Rush The Trees*)
    • by Apocalypse111 (597674) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:01PM (#17327710) Journal
      +Huitzil: PETA is starting a campaign stating that the secret ingredient in KFC chicken is "cruelty"
      +Huitzil: cruelty is apparently the most fucking delicious thing on Earth
      @Dracos: Yes. It is.
      @Dracos: Which is why veal is the best food ever.
    • by lostboy2 (194153) on Thursday December 21 2006, @02:23PM (#17328024)
      we have animal friends who so obviously need legal rights, yet we ignore them
      How about the rights of robot animoids? PETT (People for the Ethical Treatment of Tamagotchis) has been on my case for a decade. I just hope the SPCS (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Sims) doesn't find out about me.

      Seriously, though, your concern is tangentially on-topic. What kinds of entities do we humans believe deserve to have individual civil rights? And how much are we willing to do to ensure that those rights are protected and enforced? For instance, how do each of the following stack up?
      • humans
      • humans who live in a far-away third-world country (like, say, the residents of Darfur)
      • terrorists
      • suspected terrorists
      • cute animals
      • ugly animals
      • tasty animals
      • insects
      • plants
      • a human fetus
      • a human fertilized egg
      • a human in a persistent vegetative state
      • robots

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      This is a silly concept and one that any person with any sense of logic could shoot down. No, robots will never demand rights unless they are explicitly programmed to do so. Even if they did so on their own they should not be granted rights. Robots do not suffer, they are not alive. They are made to serve a function and nothing else. Granting a robot rights would be akin to granting the right front tire on my car rights. What would be the point?

      Never's a dangerous word. 100 years ago, there were pundits wh