Canadian Bureaucrats Don't "Think Different"

owlgorithm writes "Apple's new store in Montreal has three parking meters on the street in front of it. The city is in the middle of a campaign to reduce downtown parking. In Apple's ever-conscientious attempt to improve design, they offered to reimburse the city for the parking meters and their revenue if the city would remove them. Answer: Non — because 'We've never done it before, so we can't.'"

You know it's a Slow newsday when ...

[ackthpt (218170)]

SlAshDot Guffaw Dept.

You know it's a Slow newsday when "We've never done it before, so we can't." by Montreal burros constitutes news because it includes Apple.

Certainly they can't be ... nooooo ... can't be ... they're suggesting they've never accepted money to change the way something is done or not done? What next, Gérald Tremblay caught on camera stating he's giving up his Treo?

Next up: Microsoft's Power bill - 10,000 PC's running at the same time, is Redmond driving global warming?

Not really a quote

[Jabbrwokk (1015725)]

TFA is an editorial, not an article. It is the opinion of the Montreal Gazette. No bureaucrat ever said "We've never done if before, so we can't." The quote was made up to make a point in the editorial. It's not real.

If you want to read the real article, go to the source [cyberpresse.ca] (sorry, it is en francais. Run it through the Babelfish [yahoo.com] if you are desperate.)

I don't disagree that the city is being a bit obstinate, but I can see why they wouldn't want to change streetfronts on Apple's request. If they do it for them, they'll have to do it for every other downtown storefront. Besides, and I am not exaggerating, the $35,000 Apple is promising probably wouldn't even cover the cost of tasking a union city crew to remove the meters, rebuild the sidewalk and put the meters someplace else.

Re:

[ackthpt (218170)]

Besides, and I am not exaggerating, the $35,000 Apple is promising probably wouldn't even cover the cost of tasking a union city crew to remove the meters, rebuild the sidewalk and put the meters someplace else.

There's the matter of cars taking up the spots all day, unless it's posted Car Park limit 1 Hour, also having a parking warden come along and chalk tyres and monitor vehicles where the old meter was simply expired or not. (Though were I live they keep a limit of two hours on a vehicle in the same

Re:Not really a quote

[zakezuke (229119)]

Besides, and I am not exaggerating, the $35,000 Apple is promising probably wouldn't even cover the cost of tasking a union city crew to remove the meters, rebuild the sidewalk and put the meters someplace else.

I never thought I could make $35,000 in my pickup truck and having a parallel parking malfunction.

Not that I don't doubt your estimates, i'm sure a union city crew may cost $35,000 to remove the meters and repair the sidewalk. But based on observation they can be uprooted with enough force.

Re:Translated Article Text

[multipart/mixed (163409)]

> Not bad for Babelfish.

Pretty good, exactly. Sounds just like a Quebecker trying to speak english!

Re:Not really a quote

[macshit (157376)]

People need to park in order to buy.

No they don't. In real cities, people don't need cars at all (I don't know for sure whether Montreal is a real city, but from what I hear, it's not too bad).

Apple is clearly a bit confused by this concept (being headquartered in Cupertino, I suppose it's understandable).

Sorry folks but the answer is building green cars not in banning parking spaces.

No. The fundamental problem with cars is that they suck up space, and "green cars" do absolutely nothing to address that.

Re:You know it's a Slow newsday when ...

[cbiltcliffe (186293)]

they're suggesting they've never accepted money to change the way something is done or not done?

No. As I Canadian citizen, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that the only thing that's ever done in Canadian politics to change things, is to figure out a new way to tax something.

Re:You know it's a Slow newsday when ...

[Achromatic1978 (916097)]

Microsoft recently powered on their 100,000th /production/ /server/. Let alone test environments, and desktops.

Posted anonymously.

Re:You know it's a Slow newsday when ...

[Achromatic1978 (916097)]

Gah. Or not. Oops, oh well. :)

Re:

[Baddas (243852)]

Transmission losses mean that even with wheeling, the power from my neck of the woods never reaches the East Coast. You can look on my local utility's distribution page and see where the power goes (much to north california and seattle)

I don't quite get it..

[QMalcolm (1094433)]

The meters are there to reduce the number of parked cars, not for revenue. Apple is offering money, not a solution to overcrowded streets.

Re:I don't quite get it..

[Dr Caleb (121505)]

So, a corporation is offering to pay money to change the law. Hmmm. I guess it's only a by-law, nothing wrong with that, is there?

Re:I don't quite get it..

[NoStrings (622372)]

Wouldn't that make it a buy-law?

Re:I don't quite get it..

[boobavon (857902)]

TFA says turn 3 meter spots into no parking zone.

Re:I don't quite get it..

[Guppy06 (410832)]

And such a heavy-handed measure would cause more problems than it would solve. It would needlessly cause greater aggravation for drivers looking for someplace to park, and no-parking zones don't enforce themselves.

I would rather see a government avoid using brute force measures where gentle persuasion would suffice. Especially when the latter earns money rather than spends it on more traffic cops.

Besides, if it were primarily about the income, the city government would have jumped at the cash offer.

Re:I don't quite get it..

[mooingyak (720677)]

no-parking zones don't enforce themselves. ...unlike parking meters?

Re:I don't quite get it..

[Jthon (595383)]

Actually from the article it sounds like Apple would be fine with the removal of the meters and making the spaces a no parking zone. In this case the city would receive both the revenue from the meters AND a reduction in downtown parking.

It seems someone at the city has missed a way to make a buck, and fix their traffic problem.

Re:I don't quite get it..

[Phisbut (761268)]

It seems someone at the city has missed a way to make a buck, and fix their traffic problem.

The city didn't miss an opportunity to make money. Apple wanted to pay the equivalent of the parking fares for the next 5 years. However, the city makes way more money from parking tickets than from parking meters.

Re:I don't quite get it..

[Decado (207907)]

Would have been much funnier if the city had agreed to remove the parking meters, taken the 35k and put 3 much larger and more obtrusive No Parking signs there instead.

Re:I don't quite get it..

[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

Would have been much funnier if the city had agreed to remove the parking meters, taken the 35k and put 3 much larger and more obtrusive No Parking signs there instead.

Or perhaps one of those 3-ft tall walls with the words 'NO PARKING' stencil-sprayed on it in big 18 inch letters... :)

Oh, sorry, this is Canada..91.5 cm wall, 45.5 cm letters.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

Would have been much funnier if the city had agreed to remove the parking meters, taken the 35k and put 3 much larger and more obtrusive No Parking signs there instead.

Or perhaps one of those 3-ft tall walls with the words 'NO PARKING' stencil-sprayed on it in big 18 inch letters... :)

Umm... Just make sure the sign is bilingual and that the French is much larger than the English words otherwise you face a fine and maybe a court date.

Re:

[nsayer (86181)]

However, the city makes way more money from parking tickets than from parking meters.

You're assuming the level of compliance with no-parking zones times the average fine for violations exceeds the level of compliance with parking meters times their average violation fine.

This assumption may be valid, but then again, it may not.

And I just took an LSAT sample exam, so there. :)

Re:

[king-manic (409855)]

It sounds like the spots would still be there, but they'd be meter-less: which would make the spots in front of the Apple store very appealing. Might as well step in since it's right there. Whoops, you walked out with a new Macbook and an ipod nano!

Perhaps the first day. Then the subsequent 10 years after you go to work early to park your car there taking up the space from a potential apple customer.

Re:

[vertinox (846076)]

Meters are put in high demand parking areas to increase the turnover of parking spots, thus increasing parking availability.

Why not just put, "Loading and unloading only: 20 minute attended parking"?

Most larger cities designate whole blocks like that for certain areas and shops.

Re:No parking, Metered parking, Free parking

[Opportunist (166417)]

No, that's more cars on the roads, circling around in search for a parking spot.

Re:

[rubberglove (1066394)]

Actually, from what I read, there is no clear answer of what would happen to the parking spaces if Apple got its way:
from TFA:

he idea of parking meters, besides revenue, is to keep people from parking on the street all day. The borough could do that simply by making the three-car stretch into a No Parking zone. The city is, after all, trying to reduce the number of parking spots downtown.

That is, the author of the article is making some wild-ass guess about it. The Montreal Gazette is hardly a bastion of responsible journalism. Plus, he's obviously wrong - the city of Montreal never puts up one no-parking sign when 3 or 4 will suffice [perlypalms.com].

Besides all that, I fail to see how it would make much difference either way, given that the rue Sainte Catherine is already a

kdawson spam

[Traxxas (20074)]

And this is a story how? Why should a city remove meters because the business is Apple. If Apple doesn't want to deal with the meters they shouldn't have put the store there.

Have a store employee continually feed meters

[winkydink (650484)]

problem solved

Re:

[somersault (912633)]

I like your thinking boy, you're hired!

Re:

[Secrity (742221)]

Feeding meters like that is illegal in many areas.

they should hire a "genius" to feed the meters

[netsavior (627338)]

he could also stand there looking all sullen and geek chic.

Re:

[cryfreedomlove (929828)]

It's been done in Santa Cruz California. Where, it turns out, it is a crime to feed a meter unless it is your car parked there. Check out this story about the famous Mr Twister [benricelaw.com].

This is news?

[Mundocani (99058)]

This is not news. This is not funny. This is not even mildly interesting. Check the Firehose again editors -- there must be a few tidbits in there that don't go against your personal beliefs and would make better stories to put up front than this lame pos.

Bad quote...

[WiglyWorm (1139035)]

The quote "We've never done it before, so we can't." isn't attributed to anyone in the article, I highly doubt it was ever said. Sounds to me like the writer injecting some op-ed in to this supposed news piece. Should it really be cited on /.'s front page in a way that makes it sound like that was an actual reason given?

More Expensive than they Think.

[Erris (531066)]

Now that it's published, they had better hope they never get their way. Bill Gates will pay someone to park some nasty clunker right in front and do various offensive and repulsive things. If you don't believe me, just look at the posts around here.

Retarded Story

[Doc Ruby (173196)]

That "news" story isn't quoting Montreal bureaucrats. It's putting words in their mouths to make a (stupid) point. All the writer knows is that the city refused - they don't actually know why, and there's no sign they actually asked anyone.

Parking meters, as the writer did note, are designed not to collect a little revenue, but to keep parking turning over quickly so more people can share fewer parking spots. "No Parking" signs don't replace them where they're needed (like in front of stores like Apple's) because parking is appropriate there, just not unlimited.

This is a stupid story by a stupid writer. Published by a stupid Slashdot editor.

Hrm...

[JacobO (41895)]

I'm not sure you should judge Canadians by the actions of the Québécois. They are distinct, after all, and should be laughed at as a separate group.

Cue the anti government rants!

[greg_barton (5551)]

I can hear it now:

"When you join government, you get st00pid!"

"Bureaucrats can't see past their own red taped noses!"

It's not confined to just government, folks. Business has it's fair share of inefficiency and stupidity. My favorite example of this was when I had a long contract at a Fortune 500 company away from home. They paid for an apartment for me to live in, but I saw no reason why I should expense my meals, even though it was allowed. My reasoning was, "I'm going to eat whether I'm here or at home. Why should they pay for it." This saved the company a few thousand dollars over six months. At one point, though, I wanted to expense something odd: boarding my cat for the weekend while I traveled. My reasoning was, "I have no friends here who would take care of the cat, unlike at home, so the company should pay." The refused, saying it wasn't justifiable, even though it was only $50 or so. After that I expensed all of my meals. :)

To add insult to injury, the entire 3 year long project I was involved in was shelved and started over soon after that, wasting around $60 million. This wasn't the first (or last) time I saw a business waste millions of dollars. I think of these things any time a libertarian says, "Business can do things more efficiently!"

Re:Cue the anti government rants!

[CodeBuster (516420)]

I think of these things any time a libertarian says, "Business can do things more efficiently!"

In defense of libertarians: the nice thing about business is that they go out of business (i.e. bankruptcy) whereas governments are much harder to get rid off once they are entrenched into an inefficient position (i.e. governments cannot go bankrupt, at lest not in the traditional sense that the entity is dissolved). Businesses come and go and that is fine as the market weeds out the less efficient players, but governments are always there and can be very difficult to remove or replace once they get into a spending program funded by taxes and backed up by police power to collect.

Re:Cue the anti government rants!

[ardent99 (1087547)]

My sense is just the opposite: that the biggest and longest lived companies waste the most, not the least (AT&T, IBM, Raytheon, etc). Less efficient businesses do not go out of business, rather, entrenched businesses have the luxury of being less efficient. Bigger (usually as a result of having succeeded over a longer period of time), longer-lived companies usually have lower profit margins than smaller ones, and make it up in volume. Their momentum (experience, contracts, brand name, lobbying efforts, diversification) is what keeps them going, not their efficiency.

Re:

[Damek (515688)]

Not really. There are a fair amount of 100-year-old and older businesses in the world that aren't going anywhere anytime soon, many of them defacto governments in their own right, at least on par with some of the world's smaller governments. (or religions, for that matter). And those are just exactly the ones that can waste millions of dollars and not care.

Re:

[2nd Post! (213333)]

Every once in a while one of those thousand companies doesn't fail, and then you have your Apple, your Microsoft, your Ford, etc.

Everyone has a different definition of efficient because everyone has a different cost structure.

You can't "kill" an inefficient government short of staging a coup and killing people.

You can "kill" an inefficient company by creating a MORE efficient company.

No Parking And "Smart Growth" are Flawed Concepts

[CodeBuster (516420)]

It is ironic that they very objectives that municipalities set for programs of Smart Growth [wikipedia.org] very often result in precisely the opposite effects, increasing or exacerbating the undesirable elements that they seek to control. For example, in Portland Oregon they have filled in left turn pockets with planter boxes, installed "speed tables" and other "traffic calming" obstacle courses (if you were in a hurry would you be happy about having to slow down to navigate an obstacle course in your vehicle? Would that make you calmer once you exited the course or would you romp on the gas in anger and frustration to make up for lost time as you entered the freeway or the main traffic corridor?), removed parking spaces, provided too few parking spaces, and done many other misguided things in pursuit of the goal of "getting people out of their cars". After 15+ years what has been the result of these policies? Snarled traffic, increased traffic, traffic idling in slow speed stop and go driving, increased smog from more vehicles operating in the most inefficient speed and rpm range for the internal combustion engine. Basically every problem that they hopped to solve with their "Smart Growth" has in fact been made worse or even created new problems (i.e. dramatically increased smog) on top of the old ones. Portland is *worse* off because of Smart Growth and it would have been better off if they simply done nothing or at least abstained from some of the more no sense recommendations of the "Smart Growth" activists and consultants.

It all boils down to basic economics. People will do what they want and live how they want and you cannot tell them, "The elite smart growth planners are going to tell you what it is that you *really* want (i.e. less parking) and then enforce it upon you against your will." That type of centrally planned, command and control economic or social policy has not worked and will never work. It is the height of hubris and arrogance to presume that you can change other people's lives and preferences through mandates, laws, and enforcement actions. If people cannot work within the system then they find ways around it and the economic results of the workarounds are often *highly* suboptimal resulting in a Dead Weight Loss [wikipedia.org] to the economy.

You have no idea how easy you have it.

[Valdrax (32670)]

After 15+ years what has been the result of these policies? Snarled traffic, increased traffic, traffic idling in slow speed stop and go driving, increased smog from more vehicles operating in the most inefficient speed and rpm range for the internal combustion engine.

Frankly, my friend, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about if you're so pampered as to think that Portland traffic is ever "snarled."

Try driving in Atlanta for a couple of years before complaining about traffic. Portland is paradise in comparison; I tell you this from experience. You don't know what snarled or stop and go driving are like until it takes you 45 minutes to go 10 miles on a 8- to 10-lane interstate every damned day.

I've been shocked by the total lack of aggression in drivers here. They usually drive at or below the speed limit (like the law requires) instead of tailgating and trying to run off the road anyone doing less than 10-15 over the speed limit like they do in Atlanta. People here are also a LOT friendlier about letting people over to merge. As much pooh-poohing as you do of traffic calming devices, I seriously suggest that you live in an area that doesn't have them before dismissing the idea that traffic engineering can modify the behaviors of drivers.

There is a VERY marked difference in aggression between Portland and Atlanta, and I suspect that difference in how traffic is engineered here has something to do with it.

I call bullshit.

[Guppy06 (410832)]

"We've never done it before, so we can't."

There is no source for the quote in TFA, and TFA is the only article I can find on the subject with the quote. I believe this is what we call "hyperbole."

Now why wouldn't the city want to play ball? As TFA and the summary say, the entire point of the parking meters is to reduce downtown parking to begin with; it's not about the revenue, it's about the traffic (always a problem in major metropolitan centers built well before the invention of the automobile). If anything, we should be applauding the local government here for not taking the money and instead sticking by their original intent. All too many such governments would have taken the money and turned the other way.

If anybody is failing to "think different," it's Apple themselves, who are trying to take the tried-and-true easy way out of essentially bribing a government to get their way. Something different would be to find a way to encourage all those hipster Apple fans to come to their store by, say, public transportation (save gas, ease traffic congestion, etc.).

Would the story have the same "Boo government, yay capitalists!" slant if we were talking about a Sony store?

Re:

[Guppy06 (410832)]

"Apple didn't want to get rid of the traffic meters so that customers wouldn't need to pay; they wanted to get rid of them because (they think) they look ugly."

I'm really disinclined to believe the "quotes" and "motives" from TFA when it looks more and more to me like an editorial rather than an actual news article (one that conveniently caters to Canada's old anglophone/francophone blood feud at that). The only other source of information I can easily find is this [cjad.com], which includes:

The city says it's open t

It's Apple, so it must be okay then?

[semiotec (948062)]

If the city officials allow Apple to do this, then they must allow other companies to do this as well. So, imagine if a significant number of companies pay for this "privilege", and the number of street-parking slots is reduced by 50% (or whatever fraction you deem to be significant), can you see the problem this would cause?

Stupid article and stupid writer.

Re:

[Cadallin (863437)]

Yes, Cities would have to plan their zoning intelligently! The Horrors! Or, even worse, ban automobiles inside the city limits and install a robust public transportation system. YE Gods! IT would be the beginning of the end.

Gotta love those English speaking Canadians.

[HockeyPuck (141947)]

It would be nice if they could demonstrate that other cities have accepted such an offer - keep in mind that the Gazette is Montréal's leading English language, right-leaning paper. The sense that they are also delivering a slight poke to the French spoken city officials is unmistakable.

Re:

[semiotec (948062)]

At least read the summary.

That's not the point of this whole exercise. The parking meters and the parked cars do not conform to Apple's "vision" of their store, so they want them gone.

They don't want any cars out front, whether or not it belongs to their customers.