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Heinlein Archives Put Online

Posted by CowboyNeal on Fri Sep 21, 2007 04:09 AM
from the plenty-to-read dept.
RaymondRuptime writes "Good news for fans of the late SF master Robert Heinlein, 2 months after his 100th birthday celebration. Per the San Jose Mercury News, 'The entire contents of the Robert A. and Virginia Heinlein Archive — housed in the UC-Santa Cruz Library's Special Collections since 1968 — have been scanned in an effort to preserve the contents digitally while making the collection easily available to both academics and the general public... The first collection released includes 106,000 pages, consisting of Heinlein's complete manuscripts — including files of all his published works, notes, research, early drafts and edits of manuscripts.' You can skip the brief article and go straight to the archives."
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[+] Robert A. Heinlein's 100th Birthday 202 comments
sasdrtx writes "Today is Robert A. Heinlein's 100th birthday. Regarded as one of the most influential hard Sci-Fi authors of the 20th century, it's definitely worth looking back at his influence on not only science fiction, but the space program, the english language, counter-culture, and political discourse. The Space Review has a piece entitled Ride the Lightning, which discusses Heinlein's history with the space program and (sometimes incorrect) assertions about the future of space flight. For a look at the official celebration, the Heinlein Centennial website has numerous resources available. The program for the event (pdf) makes it sound like they're having a great time in Kansas City."
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  • Or was permission to publish just a Grumble from the Grave?
    • Re:For real? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by arivanov (12034) on Friday September 21 2007, @05:40AM (#20694235) Homepage
      He realised the "value" of such archives much more than other people.

      Just read the Lazarus rant in "Time Enough for Love" when he understands for the first time that his pearls of wisdom are being recorded.

      So I think he is more likely laughing than grumbling. After all he said (though Lazarus): "Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil."
      • Re:For real? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by networkBoy (774728) on Friday September 21 2007, @08:25AM (#20695303) Homepage Journal
        True.
        He also put in his bequeathing to UCSC that there was one work not to be published... Ever. I haven't the time to search the archive to see if it's there, and at the moment the title escapes me, so I'll have to dig in my annual collection and look up the title (My most prized copy of ?compton's SF? some rag that was carrying RAH's first serials.)

        Anyway, I hope they honor his wishes about this. He declared it his single worst story ever, never to be re-printed. He's fairly spot on in his assessment.
        -nB
      • I too was very disappointed to arrive at the archives and notice that payment was required. Did not follow through with the process to see what "rights" I was purchasing.

        A friend of mine, now deceased, Amy Mahin was the copyright lawyer for Lassie [wikipedia.org]. She was a wonderful person, thoughtful, and for the last ten years I've wondered often what her take on the copyright mess we are in would be. As many others have commented in the past - the current legal structure supports the distributors - with each individ
  • I wish more writers' archives would just be put online, so we can just simply see what they left out or what work was unfinished at the time of passing without a plethora of new material for purchase. For those of us who loved Stranger in a Strange Land [amazon.com] as it was, the release of the uncut version turned something nice into something overlong. And don't get me started on the Dune sequels, where the notes of Frank Herbert, instead of just being shown as they were, were turned into dreck by his son and an airport paperback writer.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      And don't get me started on the Dune sequels, where the notes of Frank Herbert, instead of just being shown as they were, were turned into dreck by his son and an airport paperback writer."

      Does anyone have any proof that this "notes" actually exist? The prequels are so chock-full of contradictions with the original series and - to put it bluntly - flat-out stupidity that I've always suspected that the notes were either too scanty to form a full work; largely ignored by Herbert & Anderson in favour of

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Its hard to think of anybody who has done a good job at "carrying on" a series once the primary author has died.

          I certainly don't disagree with you, but in all fairness there aren't all that many 'primary' authors that have done a good job carrying on a series. The obsession with never-ending series of books in scifi & fantasy almost guarantees that you will lose interest and/or be disappointed by the quality long before the series is finished. A standard trilogy may not be enough, but if there are m

          • There are exceptions to this, but frankly I can't think of any offhand.

            I can: Terry Pratchett.

            While the Discworld books have evolved significantly from essentially a ripoff of Douglas Adams to the best fantasy humor ever written to painstaking social commentary and satire, even a spinoff into children's stories that are largely as good as the "main" series, after something close to 30 books, I think he's still doing a great job. Of course, they're not coming out twice a year, each thicker (and better) than the last like they were in the 90's, but I think man is still on a roll.

  • TANSTAAFL (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Vinegar Joe (998110) on Friday September 21 2007, @04:22AM (#20693953)
    As usual.
    • Electronic commerce! Sigh, I am only an EGG
    • Re:TANSTAAFL (Score:4, Informative)

      by Chapter80 (926879) on Friday September 21 2007, @08:03AM (#20695067)
      Hilarious!

      I saw your acronym, and (once again, clueless me) I had to look it up in Wikipedia. [wikipedia.org] And it's a Heinlein reference!

      TANSTAAFL is an acronym for the adage "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch," popularized by science fiction writer Robert A. Heinlein in his 1966 novel The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, which discusses the problems caused by not considering the eventual outcome of an unbalanced economy. This phrase and book are popular with libertarians and economics textbooks. In order to avoid a double negative, the acronym "TINSTAAFL" is sometimes used instead, meaning "There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch".
      I take it they are charging for access?
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Agreed.

          But if the Estate (or descendants) "invested" in the scanning, and then released the manuscripts a little at a time, via torrents or free / cheap hosting services, it's possible that they would re-energize the market for his books.

          I have never bought a Heinlein book, and don't intend to pay to download stuff. But if I were exposed to it via a free website, it might just pique my interest enough to buy a book (which has happened NUMEROUS times to me with technical books).

          Then again, they might

          • Heinlein (and his successors) were extraordinarily diligent about renewing every single thing he ever wrote. If they hadn't been, you could read some examples that had fallen through the cracks and into the public domain, such as the works of [gutenberg.org]: Poul Anderson, Marion Zimmer Bradley, John W. Campbell, Lester Del Rey, Harry Harrison, Damon Knight, Andre Norton, H. Beam Piper, Frederik Pohl, E. E. "Doc" Smith and Kurt Vonnegut.

            Actually, it appears there may be one or two available shorts [pgdp.net], the ones that he really
              • Re:TANSTAAFL (Score:4, Interesting)

                by AshtangiMan (684031) on Friday September 21 2007, @10:26AM (#20696845)
                Science fiction as a genre does not at all mean "stuff that can't happen". More often it is a genre that allows examination of the human condition in a new context, so that we can see what absurd animals we are, both individually and especially collectively. SF has in my mind gotten a bad rap in the last 3 decades, and even early on the pulp stuff that claimed to be SF was not. These others fall into more of the Space Western category. While I am a fan of the TV "SciFi" genre, Battlestar Gallactica, Buck Rogers, Space 1999, these are not related to SF of the likes of Heinlein, LeGuin, and others. But I also agree about novels, and more or less about fiction in general. My favorite Heinlein novel is "Job" . . . very funny, and, as I was raised Catholic, very rebelious feeling.
              • SciFi to me usually means commentary on religious, political, or just plain social aspects. SciFi has always been a good way for authors to express dissent without having to address the actual subject literally, and avoid trouble with the authorities. Stories about "stuff that can't happen" I would consider in the Fantasy genre. And exercising your mind and imagination is hardly a "passive" activity. It is what will keep your brain from turning into mush as you grow older.
              • Re:TANSTAAFL (Score:5, Insightful)

                by jtroutman (121577) on Friday September 21 2007, @11:35AM (#20698093)
                Here's a list of "Science fiction (stuff that can't happen)"
                • Deep ocean submersibles
                • Satellites
                • Rockets
                • Robots
                • Portable computers
                • Virtual reality
                • Surveillance systems
                • Genetic alteration and modification
                • Holographic cloaking
                • Video Communication

                The fact is, most of the wonders of modern science were predicted in the writings of people like Asimov, Heinlein, Bradbury, Wells, and Clarke.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        I saw a post on rec.art.sf.composition a while back from David Langford talking about his efforts to get his work removed from Scribd.com - in one of the replies another author (James Nicoll? maybe...) said he had difficulty getting other works removed so he contacted the lawyers for Heinlein's estate and within 3 days they'd had every reference to him taken down. Then I saw this and thought, god that's odd that they're putting this all up online for free.... well doh.
  • by pla (258480) on Friday September 21 2007, @04:28AM (#20693969) Journal
    You can skip the brief article and go straight to the archives.

    ...Where you can add any of Heinlin's works to your cart, for a low, low price. They take Visa, Mastercard, AmEx, and Discover.

    Hey, if I link to the "complete" works of another great author on Amazon, can I make FP too? Or does it have to belong to some "special" collection selling out?
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      No one said anything about being free or public domain.
    • by derrickh (157646) on Friday September 21 2007, @05:56AM (#20694305) Homepage
      Why does it have to be free? If you want to read Stanger in a Strange Land for free, whats stopping you from going to the library? If the $21 price tag on the Starship Troopers opus is too much, then head over to Amazon and get the novel for $5.
      This whole 'everything should be free' movement is weird.

      D
      • by badfish99 (826052) on Friday September 21 2007, @06:16AM (#20694373)
        The whole paying money to a dead author thing is even weirder.
          • by pedestrian crossing (802349) on Friday September 21 2007, @08:26AM (#20695321) Homepage Journal

            dead authors may have live heirs who need the money

            Such weak BS.

            If an artist wants to take care of their heirs, they need to do like the rest of us and take care of their heirs with the money they earn while they are still alive.

            Untimely accident? TFB, death sucks for all of us.

            I just don't see what gives artists the right to continue to profit from their works after they die. No one else has that "right".

          • by badfish99 (826052) on Friday September 21 2007, @09:18AM (#20695917)
            dead authors may have live heirs who need the money
            My grandfather is dead, but I am his heir. He did some good work 70 years ago but I am quite poor. Everyone must send me $10.

            it would be nice to think that one's work could benefit one's children for some time
            I would like that too. But my employer has told me that my pay will be stopped when I die. Evidently I am in the wrong industry.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Why does it have to be free?

        By putting a price of even a buck on it you cut out the majority of the world's population.

        If you want to read Stanger in a Strange Land for free, whats stopping you from going to the library? If the $21 price tag on the Starship Troopers opus is too much, then head over to Amazon and get the novel for $5.

        You're being parochial. The US is less than 5% of the world's population. The european population is more than double that but the entire western world is still less t

      • Indeed. The perpetual copyright has inspired Heinlein to keep publishing these past 10 years, oh wait, no it hasn't. Its truly sad to see Congress beholden to major corporations to such a degree that they'll enact unconstitutional laws.
  • Yeah, how depressing. Somehow from the news releases I also thought it'd be a freebie. After all, it's a publicly funded institution...

    Grumble, mumble mumble.

    Shoulda known.

  • Copyright concerns (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rhinobird (151521) on Friday September 21 2007, @04:42AM (#20694043) Homepage
    To avoid another Scribd-like fiasco, do they have permission from Heilien's estate to do this?
  • by Rick Richardson (87058) on Friday September 21 2007, @05:24AM (#20694169) Homepage
    Though the Archives is provided online for research and academic purposes, The Heinlein Prize Trust, Robert and Virginia Heinlein's estate, who made the online Archives possible is not a non-profit organization. Just as Heinlein always said he wrote for money (something you'll find is true if you read through his correspondence), the Trustees have a responsibility to not only maintain, but increase the income of the Heinleins' estate. This benefits us all as the mission of the Heinlein Prize Trust is to not only preserve Heinlein's legacy through projects such as this online Archives, but to support and encourage the human (that's us) expansion into space through commercial endeavors. The first Heinlein Prize of $500,000 was awarded to Peter Diamandis for just such commercial space endeavors.
     
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      ... This benefits us all...

      No, this benefits only those who accidentally happen to have objectives similar to those of the trust.

      ---

      Like software, intellectual property law is a product of the mind, and can be anything we want it to be. Let's get it right.

  • I'm a fanboy but... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The Mutant (167716) on Friday September 21 2007, @05:35AM (#20694213) Homepage
    I fear this is for the hard core only.

    I was hoping to get downloadable versions of all his books that I read as a kid, especially some of the more obscure titles, and as I read them.

    Don't get me wrong - this is very cool, but we're not talking the finished product here, but all drafts leading up to the galley that was submitted to the publisher.

    So this would be very good to see how the plot, characters & books were developed. But you're not gonna curl up with one of these. I suspect they'll be dense reads.

    And expensive! The complete, seven parts of Starship Troopers [heinleinarchives.net] will set you back $21!!
  • hrmph. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by apodyopsis (1048476) on Friday September 21 2007, @05:44AM (#20694261)
    I like Heinlein.

    I have all his books, even the one finished by Spider Robinson.

    But when I can buy an copy off the 'net for less then a scanned, no doubt DRM'd, electronic copy - I have to wonder who the target of this website is.

    Bottom line - If you want to impress people donate the collected works to the Gutenberg archive.

    But of course that is not a money spinner. Hardcore fans only indeed - though I am not knocking this as a source for historical research for the academics.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Your last line answered it: Hardcore fans and academics.

      While I love to read, I have very little interest in HOW a book is written. I mean, I kind of care, but not enough to sift through tons of notes and try to recreate his thought process on a book that took him months or years to write. I simply don't have enough time to care.

      On the other hand, if I were looking at writing my first book, I'd be sorely tempted to take a look at the process a master used, and see what could help me along.

      And if I lived
  • In other news, Playboy Magazine recently launched Playboy.com, which allows the worlds premier men's magazine to be made available online! You can skip the brief article, and go straight to the archives [NSFW] [playboy.com].
  • Job: A comedy of Justice, new on Amazon... $7.99
    Job: A comedy of Justice, used on Amazon... $0.01
    Job: A comedy of Justice, digitized... $33.00?!?
      • by Walt Dismal (534799) on Friday September 21 2007, @10:55AM (#20697351)
        I think the title originally was "I Will Fear No Editor" (okay, I joke) but it read like that, too. Not one of his greatest works. However his artery blockage problem was kicking in around then.

        I'll stick my two cents in here. Heinlein's juveniles and many other works (up until the period when the transition in quality coming from his cerebral artery problem deeply hurt his work) all celebrated the human condition, and the ability of man to rise to noble heights. They also were cracking good stories, too. Heinlein does not deserve the denigration coming these days from academic hacks and people unable to understand what he was really getting at. He wrote of man's responsibility to society, over and over again, and I find it offensive when some dimwitted, unimaginative 'publish or perish' academic arrogantly demeans him.

        In his time - a span of decades overlapping WWII - Heinlein was a giant and an inspiration to many engineers and scientists; any current critic dismissing him as a totalitarian Nazi is getting it completely wrong. His goal was to make money entertaining, true, but he aimed to inspire, he aimed at noble mores. He was not a literary cheat or a fraud and tried to give good value for the money. He was human and he made some mistakes in later years. But overall he saluted the best in man, championed the competent man in his stories. He was in favor of can-do, and held whiny slackers in disdain. If someone finds fault in that, the problem is with them, not him. His Starship Troopers was about genuine duty to man, unlike many of today's shallow military porn 'Sci-Fi" novels. (The movie adaptation was not his fault.) His Door Into Summer inspired me as a budding engineer. Today's lightweight bookstore rack-space fillers, by contrast, are shallow and disposable. I don't see many of them lighting the right sparks in growing minds like Heinlein did.

    • While Heinlein's writing sucks, Stranger in a Strange Land was highly popular in 1960s counterculture, and so he's an important writer for his impact, not for his talent.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 21 2007, @05:36AM (#20694219)
        Wow, are you kidding me?

        Heinlein is one of the biggest, most influential names in science fiction. He won 4 Hugos, the very first Grand Master Award from the SFWA, and I'm sure a lot more awards that I don't know about. Fuck, at one time he was referred to as one of the "Big Three" names in sci fi (along with Asimov and Clarke).

        Read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Friday, Stranger in a Strange Land, and Citizen of the Galaxy. If you can't appreciate the genius that this man had after that, you're beyond hope.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Critical opinion has greatly turned against Heinlein after his death. Many writers have won awards only to be recognized as over-hyped later.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Heinlein was not exactly a literary genius, but he wrote a good yarn, and that's more than some geniuses could manage. More of a Rudyard Kipling than a James Joyce. But I know which I'd rather read.

            It's a tragic shame that Heinlein lived long enough to write his later rubbish, which he apparently typed one-handed, with his trousers off. But his early stuff made good light reading. Fun and full of ideas.
            • More of a Rudyard Kipling than a James Joyce. But I know which I'd rather read.

              Yes, yes, YES!

            • by wytcld (179112) on Friday September 21 2007, @10:06AM (#20696563) Homepage

              Heinlein was not exactly a literary genius ... more of a Rudyard Kipling
              I love Joyce, but Kipling was the better writer, and thoroughly recognized in his time for it. Among Kipling's closest friends were Henry and William James. What Henry James did for expat Americans, Kipling did for expat Brits. Oh, you'll find far more English professors today who hold out Henry as the great genius, and Rudyard as pedestrian - but that's a temporary fashion, having nothing to do with their writing abilities, mostly a reflection of the fact that an American going to London to seek her or his fortune is currently respectable, while an English person's presence in India for the same purpose is not, just at present, seen as politically correct.

              Heinlein knew he was writing in the style of Kipling - and Twain - the two best writers in the English language since Shakespeare and Milton. Heinlein knew their work intimately. Since Heinlein was describing outward-looking people and societies, people of the frontiers such as Kipling and Twain had written of, they were perfect models for him. Joyce, by contrast, is an example of European culture turned inward, during a period of great failures and retreat. And that's the problem with most of what passes for "literature" today - it deals in neurosis and failure rather than hope and success. Our scope should be wide enough to encompass both. And of the latter, Heinlein was the greatest author of the 20th Century. His sentences are deliciously-well crafted, too. His care in the details was as fine as Joyce's. It's just a different style. But he was perfect at it, especially in his first couple of decades.
              • For the ultimate in neurosis and failure try Dostoyevski and Kafka. Holy shit. After that, I'll read anything. Supermarket porn. Crichton. Just make me happy again.
    • The U.S. has (and has had) plenty of great writers. Pickings were a bit slim in the 19th Century, but the 20th made up for it: Faulkner, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Ralph Ellison, John Updike, Philip Roth, Cormac McCarthy, Thomas Pynchon, Theodore Dreiser, Sinclair Lewis, John Dos Passos, Richard Wright, Robert Penn Warren, Flannery O'Connor, Nabokov... I have never understood the fascination with Heinlein. I think he must have been "childhood reading" for a lot of people, and so gets a free pass. He's not a g
    • Umm??? I thought Heinlein... was just another second-rate American pulp writer with a fascist bent.
      You were wrong. Right-wing yes, but the Libertarian (good) kind if I read his books correctly. He did have some peculiar ideas, but you only become a fascist when you try and force your ideas on others IMO. Personally I love his work, at his best he was on a par with the likes of H. G. Wells and Aldous Huxley.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Heinlein was one of a handful of writers that created the genre of Adult Science Fiction. You can see the transition in his own works, like from the Juvenile literature of Starship Troopers to the Adult Stranger in a Strange Land. If it weren't for Heinlein, Asimov, Bradbury, et al, Sci Fi might still be "pulp" fiction and "boys books". BTW, I'm using "juvenile" in the library sense, not pejorative.