Gaffes That Keep IT Geeks From the Boardroom

buzzardsbay writes "Yes, it's all in good fun to point out the mismatched belt and shoes and the atrocious hairstyles, but honestly, I'm committing three of these errors right now! Is that why I can't get a key to the executive washroom? Or is it my rebellious attitude and pungent man-scent that's keeping me down? The shocker in here was pigtails on women... I love pigtails on women!"

Slashdot

[youthoftoday (975074)]

Trying to get first post is a classic sign

Re:Slashdot

[RuBLed (995686)]

But in I.T. I'm only concerned with Feng Shui when I'm trying to make my code look like a landscape painting when rotated 90 degrees or when printed in my boss's continuous feed printer.

Re:Slashdot

[by Anonymous Coward]

You might try taking a shower, as well.

I did once, but Lowe's security stopped me.

Re:Slashdot

[Forge (2456)]

Yep. Unfortunately your boss is one of those idiots that pays attention to what other people wear. And since impressing the boss is the only way to get promoted people with your attitude will never be management.

Re:Slashdot

[ZeroExistenZ (721849)]

your boss is one of those idiots

Find another job if you cannot work with your boss. If you want to ever be "management" and you find your boss "an idiot". Well, then you're not cut out to be management or certainly not in that firm. Sitting around smoothtalking waiting for a promotion from someone who you think is an idiot? right..

And since impressing the boss is the only way to get promoted people with your attitude will never be management.

That wont make you management. It makes you a suckup who's running after a dangling carrot without charisma and reliability: you'll just agree when sometimes you have to disagree with your boss and let him know why. Who constantly wonders why there aren't offers for promotion and sit waiting while serving "the master". bah. Then resorting to passive agressiveness because you feel you deserve a promotion yet cannot deliver?

I've gotten many management position offers, being 26, in international companies. Not by sucking up, but by getting things done, going outside of my "safety zone" or unexepectedly pulling projects straight. (I'm a consultant software developer)

I'm too young for management, and I like to code more then management. Yet sucking up or "pleasing" the master isn't the way to go. I've been in such a firm before where that was expected. I wouldn't last a day anymore and would refuse projects for firms like that.

Who needs that, anyway?

[danaris (525051)]

Well, I will have to make sure I wear my brown belt more often (I only own one pair of office-quality shoes, and they're black).

I don't want to be management. I like being a programmer and sysadmin, and I'm good at it. I don't think I'd be that good at management.

And since I have the ear of the person who is, for all intents and purposes, the IT Manager, I have a good amount of say in what goes on (when I want to) anyway ;-)

Dan Aris

Re:Slashdot

[Carik (205890)]

The problem is only partly other management. Upper management wants lower management to be presentable to customers (in most fields); customers notice. They won't do business with a company they think is sloppy, and in a first meeting, appearance makes a HUGE impression.

Actually, most people notice clothing a lot more than they realize. In most business situations, someone wearing a shirt, tie, and slacks will get a lot more respect than someone wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

I work in a job where I could get away with wearing jeans and a t-shirt. A lot of my time is spent crawling around under people's desks or in the ceilings, trying to get broken network connections working (I'm glad to say I had nothing to do with the wiring in this building, so I can blame someone else. Instead, I wear nice (non-stained, non-faded, non-ripped) jeans and a button down shirt. I get a lot more respect from management than some of my co-workers do.

Now, "mismatched shoes and belt" is a little overboard, and no-one around here would notice, but overall appearance makes a big difference.

Re:Slashdot

[Oktober Sunset (838224)]

forget feng shui, business fashion is about violence, if you could imagine someone beating his subordinates with a bat or maybe shooting them in the head as they whimper on their knees, they are dressed for success.

Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[ThomasHoward (925022)]

Who cares about the pay, once you are earning above a certain amount, being happy with what you do is far more important than earning more money. programming sounds far more fun than managing things and people. Give me t-shirts and jeans, screw wearing shirts, ties, suits and overpriced uncomfortable stuff like that.

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[chimpo13 (471212)]

Wow, a lot of that list was written by MBA jerks jealous over what IT staff does. I never thought of it that way before. It never bothered me in my jobs as "what" I was wearing. But as ThomasHoward says, "being happy with what you do is far more important than earning more money".

T-shirts and jeans!

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[ozmanjusri (601766)]

Wow, a lot of that list was written by MBA jerks jealous over what IT staff does.

No, as an MBA jerk, I can assure you I have no jealousy of IT whatsoever.

That list was written by a hack journo with no intent to reflect anyone's real world attitudes and every intent of boosting ad impressions by getting it posted to Slashdot and Reddit.

It's a shallow swipe at some IT stereotypes, nothing more. It should be in some internet scrapheap, not the front page.

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[ta bu shi da yu (687699)]

True. I mean, didn't even get the following right:

"Quick, name one executive's bio photo that shows him or her wearing a billowy floral shirt? Zzzt! Times up! Wear these on vacation if you must, but don't show up to a quarterly meeting in one of these numbers."

Pfft. Evidently the author has never been to an APEC conference [wikimedia.org].

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[stiggle (649614)]

Sometimes management doesn't understand that the little things are more important than the money.

In one job I had flexitime, but then we got new management in and tied a 5k GBP pay rise to loosing the flexi. I rejected the pay rise cause I liked the flexibility. They didn't understand why someone would turn down the extra money.

Another one was leaving a job and taking over 50% pay cut to get a more relaxed job not in the city. Lifestyle and lack of stress is worth more than money (once you've enough to cover all the bills).

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[sm62704 (957197)]

Sometimes management doesn't understand that the little things are more important than the money.

Telling a PHB (or a lot of slashdotters even) there is anything more important than money is like telling a Muslim there is something more important than Allah.

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[Tiroth (95112)]

Bonuses are taxed at the same rate as the rest of your income...perhaps you mean that because the bonus is "on top of" your normal income, it is taxed at your marginal rate? In that sense it is at the highest rate you pay, but so is that 5% raise. You can't game the system and get more take-home pay via that method.

What might be confusing the issue is that I believe the IRS has larger withholding requirements for bonus payments, but the withholding is just to make sure you have paid enough by tax time -- if it was set too high you'll get a refund. This makes it look like take-home pay is lower than it really is.

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[jotok (728554)]

That is a really good attitude to have. I, on the other hand, look really good in suits, and I like consulting more than I like programming. To each his own.

Re:Suits do give a first impression

[jotok (728554)]

That's fine, because it rarely matters what you think of me so long as you do your job. As your consultant my job is to help make you successful--I find coming in with that kind of attitude (instead of demanding you kowtow because I have on a tie) defuses most of the friction you might expect when the customer has your attitude, and then we can collaborate to the extent required to get the job done.

This is perhaps an example of those "great social skills," but some might call it "social intelligence." I'm hardly a social butterfly--actually, something of an introvert--but I know how to handle surly know-it-all geeks and this is why I keep getting hired again and again.

The key to your employment, on the other hand, is your technical skills. You picked a field that fits you, which is great...A little social skill would probably help out but it doesn't need to be your bread & butter. We occupy differ niches, is all.

Stuffed Shirts and Suits in summer

[Bananatree3 (872975)]

If being a respectably-paid techie means I can wear a Hawaiian shirt and shorts on a hot sticky summer day, I'll take that over some high-paid exec sweating bullets in his black suit when its 90+ degrees out. Hell, if it's 100+ I'll go Kilting because I can. That's the kind of freedom over stuffy board rooms and sweating suits, and plust the fact that I love the work I do I'll keep that "lower" position thankyouverymuch.

Re:Stuffed Shirts and Suits in summer

[by Anonymous Coward]

So you'd rather be a geek than an exec because the mandatory underwear isn't appealing?

Black Suits Are the Real Faux Pas

[OakLEE (91103)]

I'll take that over some high-paid exec sweating bullets in his black suit when its 90+ degrees out.

You know, since we're on the subject of fashion, I want to err the gripe I have about the black suit. It has been making a comeback in business attire, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why.

First, the social argument against the black suit. Traditionally, black suits were the province of the help or the dead (i.e., butlers and funerals). Black dye was cheap, and the suit color looked austere which is why they perfect for funerals and the help since it never drew attention. In fact black was so verboten, famous clothier Brooks Brothers did not even offer an off the rack black suit until the 1990s, because Abraham Lincoln was assassinated in one. Source [wikipedia.org]. Why, given its history, that its come back in fashion I do not understand.

Second, the practical argument. You are completely right in that black suits are absolutely miserable to wear in the summer. They also tend to get noticably washed out faster from dry cleaning. They also are show absolutely no originality or as Office Space would say, "flare." A black suit, IMO, shows that a person put less thought into getting dressed than a person who wears sock/sandals and a big Hawaiian shirt. At least those things exhibit character.

I've had this rant building in me for a while, so it feels good to get it out, but if I had one piece of fashion advice to give to fellow geeks its: DON'T WHERE A BLACK SUIT! A simple navy, charcoal, or sharkskin suit will do much to set you apart from bland tasteless masses that insist on only wearing black.

Re:Black Suits Are the Real Faux Pas

[Red Flayer (890720)]

simple navy, charcoal, or sharkskin suit will do much to set you apart from bland tasteless masses that insist on only wearing black.

I'd extend that even further.

Provided that you have sufficient funds for more than one suit (and at $250 including tailoring for a cheap suit, it should be too much of a problem), the black suit should be worn only at funerals.

Job interviews require a navy, dark brown, or dark grey suit -- navy is best, and the preferred material is a light wool. A very subtle pinstripe is good, and can be a way of adding "flare" within the requirements of a formal business environment. Note that a dark grey suit can also be used as your funeral suit.

If you must wear a jacket & tie at work, then wear anything but black.

As for people sweating in suits during the summer, one reason for that is most suits are three-season suits. It's just not appropriate to wear a ool suit in summer. An investment in two (or possibly three) summer-weight suits is a very good idea. Matte silk or rough-woven silk suits can be purchased for less than $300, and make a world of difference. Usually these are in lighter colors as well, and can also function as the de rigeur 'wedding suit'. If you're in a more relaxed area, you might be able to get away with a sport coat instead of a summer-weight suit.

In short, I think everyone should own a dark grey wool suit, a navy (or possibly brown) wool suit, and one summer-weight suit (light grey or dark green are good choices). Following those, a black suit for funerals (and those of us who've been around a while know how often we need to wear it, unfortunately). After that, the suits you purchase should reflect your needs.

I don't need to wear a suit to work anymore, so I wear three suits -- one for interviews, one for funerals, and one for weddings, basically. The other three suits I own are gathering dust in my closet, as I rarely need to wear them -- usually when I have two weddings in one weekend, for example.

Re:Stuffed Shirts and Suits in summer

[csteinle (68146)]

Wearing a kilt at 100F? Crikey. That'd give me a serious case of the Betty Swollocks. It's obviously not a full 8 yards of woollen tartan you're wearing. A real kilt's designed for cold weather, not warm weather.

Re:Stuffed Shirts and Suits in summer

[Angostura (703910)]

That's right. Why adjust the dress code slightly when you can install expensive refrigeration and hike up the energy bills.

Re:Stuffed Shirts and Suits in summer

[aywwts4 (610966)]

That's a tad hypocritical don't you think? Us geeks being the ones with the rooms filled with racks and racks of incredibly efficient space heaters that demand constant refrigeration 24/7.

Re:Stuffed Shirts and Suits in summer

[Von Helmet (727753)]

Not really. Computers have to run hot, and so have to be kept cool some way. Humans don't have to wear a suit to work.

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[tgd (2822)]

The difference between t-shirts and jeans and suits and ties is one of corporate culture, not management vs grunt.

That sort of elitist thinking ("programming sounds far more fun than managing things and people") is part of the culture that keeps IT and engineering staff out of decision making positions. You're looking at the business from your perpective and yours only, and announcing it to everyone.

Building a business, building a team, management -- they're all forms of creative problem solving every bit as "fun" or creative as programming is. In fact, imaging programming for a CPU whose instructions have unpredictable execution speeds and results.

Management isn't generally a bunch of PHB's who flail around with no idea what they're doing. Just as there are good engineers and bad engineers, the same is true of people who build and run businesses, but good or bad they're doing the same thing you're doing -- they're engineering teams or a business just as you are engineering classes or applications.

Recognizing that will get you a long ways towards getting into the sort of position in a company where you can do what you find fun *and* have the influence needed to ensure decisions that impact areas of your responsibility are made correctly. Ignoring it will leave you forever being the monkey who has to jump when asked.

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[aug24 (38229)]

Speaking as a contractor who has worked in dozens of companies, led and built teams and generally blurred the line between geek and management, I would say that:

Management isn't generally a bunch of PHB's who flail around with no idea what they're doing.

is basically wrong. Generally they are exactly that.

Maybe not in a bricks and mortar business, but in IT that's pretty much exactly what they are. IMHO, of course.

Cheers,
Justin

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[QuantumG (50515)]

Heh, I've worked at a few places "run by geeks". They don't last long. There's this thing called "sales" that they seem to miss. Of course, I'm talking about IT geek here. I know some very successful business nerds. I know a girl who is a big time tax nerd.. natural born bureaucrat, wildly successful.. wears a lot of suits.

Well Said

[bagsc (254194)]

The general problem with "low level" employees is not that they aren't bright enough, or hard working enough to be management. The problem is that they only care about themselves.

You get paid at work because you're useful to someone else. But "low level" employees do their tasks, and that's it. "High quality" employees succeed by figuring out how to constantly be more useful to their boss. Don't confuse this as "sucking up" - creating efficiencies, new opportunities, and helping your boss achieve his tasks means your organization is making more money, and some of that money will get directed to the source if it can be found.

Lower management takes objectives and organizes the people to accomplish them for the middle management. A middle manager strives to hit the benchmarks for the upper management. The upper management strives to keep the profits growing for the CEO. The CEO is redirecting the company and dealing with the board of directors and everyone who wants his ear as the figurehead. Every step is about serving someone else - the CEO is a slave to the Board, who are slaves to the investors, who need the stock price to go up to pay for their retirement or their kids' tuition.

If you want to be paid more, just keep trying to keep the end customer happy.

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[tomhudson (43916)]

Management isn't generally a bunch of PHB's who flail around with no idea what they're doing

You need to look around. The Peter Principle [wikipedia.org] is alive and well, and is easy enough to see. Look at all those clueless top management at the Fed, the White House, the banks, etc., - everyone who went against the obvious - that at some point a mortgage is only worth as much as the earning power of the person who is paying it - and brought us yet another crisis.

Why do you think that newer businesses can beat out older established competitors? Part of the reason is that the longer a business has been around, the more positions are filled by people who have been promoted to a position one higher than they are really capable of. So they're not all that competent, and their boss, who refuses to address it, is also incompetent. And his boss, and so on and so on and so on ...

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[houghi (78078)]

I have done both and unless you are an asshole pointy haired boss, being a manager can be very satisfying. You can not only hack at the code, but also steer the company in a direction that you think is good.

e.g. you can start using the OS and/or programs you think (and know from experience) are better for the company in the mid and long term.

Instead of you just doing your one job, you can achieve more then just what one person can do. You can motivate people to do it. You can do much more that way.

Imagine that they would 'just' be coding. No, there is nothing shamefull in being a manager. There is something wrong of being an asshole, but they do not need to go together. I have worked for assholes who were not managers and managers who were not assholes.

Also a suit is not uncomfortable and the fact that they are overpriced depends on where you buy them. Obviously, if you only want to wear t-shirts to every ocasion, including your wedding, then you will not be managament material anyway.

The fact that you think your dresscode is more importand then the job you do, means you are not interested in people. Hence: not management material.

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[Simon Brooke (45012)]

Who cares about the pay, once you are earning above a certain amount, being happy with what you do is far more important than earning more money. programming sounds far more fun than managing things and people. Give me t-shirts and jeans, screw wearing shirts, ties, suits and overpriced uncomfortable stuff like that.

H'mmm... Having been either a technical director or managing director of IT companies for fifteen years, I'm back being just a software engineer. Why? Mostly because I enjoy it more. But I'm sitting here at my desk about to start work, with my long hair and my beard and wearing a cycling jersey. Idiocy about corporate uniform makes me tired; it's just so old. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, stop now. If you don't feel comfortable in what you're wearing, wear something different. Life is too short, and money is frankly just not worth it.

But as a quick aside, the business suit is worn these days by lawyers, politicians, salesmen and the financial services industry - in other words, it's the uniform of the professionally dishonest. Is that really how you want people to see you?

Re:Why would I even want to be in the Boardroom

[Eivind (15695)]

This is true. That uniform signals attachment to a subculture.

I've had customers explicitly state that they feel comfortable about our competence because of the density of Coke-bottles, combat-boots, long-beards, band-shirts, hacker-attitude, incomprehensible posters with inside hacker-jokes, in our offices. These things signal attachment to a subculture, and indicate, to them, someone who lives, breathes thinks, lives code.

Which is just as silly as trusting a salesman because he has a nice suit, but there you go, nobody ever said customers can't be silly.

Re:Don't let them in on the secret

[Angostura (703910)]

Let me have a stab at that. Could it be that 'management' involves, in part being able to communicate effectively with both colleagues and and people external to the company. The latter in particular is helped by conforming to societal norms in terms of dress.

Clothes convey a message - you might not like it, but they do.

So you ask: "why is it that if an artist dresses like a tramp and snarls at anyone who tries to distract him (or her) while working, that's just how talent operates, but when it's engineers or programmers, that just shows how dysfunctional they are?"

The answer is - society thinks, of artists as idiosyncratic individuals who can defy social norms as part of their 'work'. It doesn't matter if an artist paints herself green and snarls like a dog, because they don't have to work as a team or manage anyone. The artist is sending a message: 'I don't conform', but that's part of the job description.

Now imagine an engineer or programmer giving exactly the same message: 'I don't conform'. That may not be a hinderance in any way while they are bashing out Perl in a cubicle somewhere. But management requires the manager to conform - to buy into the company's and societies norms - at least to an extent.

So that's why both the artist and the geek will be accepted as artist and geek while dressed as a tramp, but will find it more difficult to become a C*O

Pigtails?

[EdIII (1114411)]

The shocker in here was pigtails on women... I love pigtails on women!

Maybe that is the reason why. Schoolgirl outfits and pigtails go hand in hand. It may be sexist, I won't deny it, but women who do this probably remind the men too much of a strip club and they need all that concentration on how best to screw the consumer :)

Let's not even touch men with pigtails either
 

Re:Pigtails?

[doofusclam (528746)]

My girlfriend looks great in pigtails, it takes 10 years off her age too.

Trouble is she's only 22...

Re:Pigtails?

[moderatorrater (1095745)]

Dear Diary,

Jackpot.

Honestly,

[QuantumG (50515)]

I thought the title said Bedroom for like 2 minutes.

Considering that the board room

[Travoltus (110240)]

is a major cause of slow-downs in innovation, one has to wonder if we're not looking at the problem in reverse.

Real lesson

[wanax (46819)]

People base a hell of a lot on first impressions.. Although in theory this isn't the best approach, unless we have a new enlightenment one would be wise to "overdress", always.

But I Don't Want To Be In The Boardroom

[pandrijeczko (588093)]

I know this is supposed to be a humourous article but I get really annoyed at these "business types" who consider anyone who isn't aiming for a 6/7 figure salary or who isn't treading on all of their work colleagues in order to reach the top, to be somehow abnormal - or even worse, demotivated or lazy.

I'm in my mid-40s here in the UK, I've been a techie in telecoms and security for 25+ years now, I'm now a consultant earning a good salary as does my wife. Admittedly we've no kids but we've got our own home as well as two holiday homes overseas (not time-shares, fully ours) and I couldn't want for a better life. I work a 37.5 hour week and at 5:30pm I can pretty much forget about work until the following morning, but whilst I'm at work, I do work hard.

So quite frankly, you can stuff your boardroom job, flashy cars, Armani suits, the endless travelling and hotel rooms, and the sixteen hour days because I'm not interested. I earn enough to live very comfortably provided that I'm careful but my life of "three thirds" is going great - one third work, one third sleep and one third pleasure...

Re:But I Don't Want To Be In The Boardroom

[jfb3 (25523)]

See, that's the difference between you and them. You think this article was meant to be humorous. They don't.

Oh damn

[Quato (132194)]

I got excited.... I thought it read....
Gaffes That Keep IT Geeks From the Bedroom

I'm so lonely...

Re:Oh damn

[sakusha (441986)]

I got excited.... I thought it read....
Gaffes That Keep IT Geeks From the Bedroom

You might be right. Women don't go for guys who dress like slobs.

No slide show version

[Derling Whirvish (636322)]

Gaffes Keeping Geeks Out of the Board Room

1. Mismatching Shoes and Belt
2. Tie and Short Sleeve Shirt
3. The One Binary Watch
4. Tight Black Jeans
5. Oversized Hawaiian Shirts
6. Socks and Sandals
7. Alternative Hairstyles
8. Concert T-shirts
9. A Closet of Vendor and Trade Show Gear
10. Stains

It's really testament to the shallowness of the boardroom that these are actually taken seriously by those with the ability to promote people. Your plan for upgrading the servers using well-reasoned arguments backed with meticulous research data to save the company megamoney in maintenance well be passed over because they are concentrating on your mismatched belt and shoes instead. >sigh

Re:Who's been following me around?

[Antique Geekmeister (740220)]

I've seen both: ties are a safety hazard if you have to put your head inside server racks or do lifting to get equipment into the right place. But they're a dress standard in many corporate cultures, just as a tidy desk is. Like doctors wearing scrubs in the hospital, they identify you as professional staff rather than as service staff, even though we often are service staff.

Well yes. And no.

[SmallFurryCreature (593017)]

First of, wearing a tie or not has nothing to do with your actual competence. Neither is all of IT about tech. Corporate IT is far more then "just" the programmers and the managers. Some of the best people I have met over the years were not all that hot on the tech site but still good IT workers because they could bridge the gaps between the tech guys and the customer.

I am a bit suspicious of either extreme when it comes to dress code. Some people just don't fit in suits (I am one of them) while others only competence is to look good in one. I had this situation years ago when I worked for a small company and didn't have my driving license. I would be sent to the customer with a guy who drove me, that was really all he was good for IT wise, he just didn't have a clue, but he sure did look good in a suit. It was pretty common for us to arrive at the customer and for them to mistake him as the "boss" and me as the helper. I couldn't blame them but it did proof to me that people look at the tie first, competence second (if you are lucky).

However those cases were ALWAYS when the good looking people had screwed up and I had to come in to clean up, so this helped to make me acceptablebecause by this time the bosses were screaming and most bosses are rather down to earth and don't give a shit what the person who shovels the shit away looks like just as long as he is fast. But that doesn't make it any easier to get hired in the first place or to get the "easy" projects, we had a number of customers were I would only go under escort by sales because they had to provide a shield as it were of being dressed right to keep up appearances. A large customer dealing with real estate was one of them, everyone was in suits there, I looked like I was coming to pick up the trash, so thinking back to it we sorta send in the sales guy first to blind them with his outfit so I could do the tech work. For a lot of corporate IT SELLING your tech skills by putting it in a nice package is just as important as having the skills in the first place.

If you are detached somewhere where a full suit and tie is the regular dresscode they are going to have to be sold on your expensive contract by someone they can relate too. If you are REALLY good then a competent sales guy can sell your sandals but you better be REALLY good and you have to accept that for jobs were a really good guy ain't needed, they prefer to sell the guy who is easier on the eyes.

Mind you, there some far nastier versions of this. Females whose skills are sold disguised behind a male because tech guys can't possibly have tits. Don't even get me started on race issues.

Looks matter in the business world where everyone is always trying to sell you something. Goverment and education are different, goverment typically is run by people who just stuck with it for decades and education is were everyone who is to weird ends up, but in "business" it is everyone for themselves and you constantly have to sell yourselve.

So do you have to wear a tie? Well it all depends on what role you have. When you are coding at home or your own office, who cares. When you go to implement it, well, it isn't very comfortable. At the launch party? People should know how good you are by now. But when it is time to sell yourselve, then yes, it is just polite to dress up a bit. In sales, you dress up and if you are unlucky enough to have to be part of the selling of your skills, then looking right helps. A good IT company will help the hopeless with that. I simply arranged at one company that they dressed the worsed offenders of us. Because while going in jeans and a t-shirt is bad, it is even worse if you force these guys to buy a suit because they will screw it up. Send them out shopping at a good store that helps them pick the right outfit and have the company pay for it, keep it at the office and let the secretary handle keeping it clean. Let the people with a clue to dresscode handle the dressing, it might sound childish but it does work and offcourse in plenty of

Re:This is just another boring story about ...

[moderatorrater (1095745)]

. people that think it's more important to judge people by their looks than by what they can contribute to the job...OK, bathing every day is good.

But then you're engaging in the same thing they are! The point of the matter is that you dress and act like you want people to see you. If you don't dress like someone who's going to impress the boss, then you're obviously not trying very hard to impress the boss.

Communication is the name of the game when it comes to management, and someone who can't communicate who they are through their clothing are probably going to have problems communicating in other ways. Is this the way it should be? Maybe not. But society is built upon judging people, and if you don't try to be judged favorably, don't bitch when you aren't.

Re:Superficial crap

[Confused (34234)]

"Those people" are dinosaurs and there time is passing anyway. Hopefully as the "Gen X" and "Gen Y" kids start to displace their predecessors in the business world, it'll represent an opportunity to inject some fresh thinking and new approaches to things.

You might be too young to remember, but in 1968 there was a big movement about changing society, authority, ditching old values etc. Today's revolutionaries are pretty tame compared to the the generation of 68. So what became of those revolutionaries and non-conformists? Today, they sit in suits and ties and are exactly those dinosaur managers you accuse of being the establishment incarnate. With Gen X and Gen Y - whatever those may be - exactly the same will happen and fresh approaches to things will be discarded like before.

Life is too short to waste time worrying about what morons think about your belt and shoes.

No, you got it wrong. For them life is to short waste time to figure out if that moron who can't even dress properly has other redeeming values.

More generally speaking, clothes and appearance are the cues you give other people what to think about you. So if you dress like a techie, people will treat you like a techie (which is in short: Fix this and begone). This is perfectly fine, as long as you want that. However if you want to be treated differently (eg being taken seriously by people with decision power) you'll have a hard time. The easiest way to overcome this is send other signals. (eg dress in a cheap ill fitting suit with an atrocious tie for the used car salesman treatment). The extremes in this area are con men, who make it an art to appear a lot more than they are.

Clothes are just a communication protocol: Learn the spec and use it when appropriate.

Re:This is why I might have to stay in academia

[freedom_india (780002)]

Why does it matter if I have long hair? Why should people give a crap what I'm wearing?

I will take this one:

Scientifically speaking, vision (inputs from our eyes) form 80% of our total sensory input (compared to 10% for a Dog).
Hence visually appealing is a battle won 3/4 of the way.
People generally don't place much emphasis on what you speak, if your appearence is Michael jackson or Janet Jackson with wardrobe malfunction. (unless you are proven to be so good like Einstein, but he too had to wear a Tux to make his peers take him seriously).
Which is why some people still love jessica simpson on stage or even Jessica Alba (even though their acting skill would give hiccups to Spielberg).

Probably what we wear does not matter to a dog (which gets 50% of its input from smell, 40% from hearing and 10% visual), since it sees by smell.
But then dogs do not run boardrooms (literally speaking that is).

Satisfied with a scientific answer?