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NBC Still Down On P2P But Plans To Use It Themselves
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:23 PM
from the what's-that-again dept.
from the what's-that-again dept.
Cotton Eye Joe writes "Ars Technica has an interview with Rick Cotton, the general counsel for NBC Universal who is best known for saying that piracy is a more serious offence than robbery. Cotton still has some strong opinions on P2P, even though the network will be using it for distribution. 'He's convinced that the pirate problem is costing NBC Universal real revenue and that the scale of the problem is so vast as to discourage investment in the carrots, positive solutions like Hulu. "With all that pirated material available, it creates tremendous disincentives to content owners who need to invest in new content," Cotton says, "and that just hurts consumers over time."'"
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Your Rights Online: Piracy More Serious Than Bank Robbery? 501 comments
An anonymous reader writes sends us to Ars Technica for a dissertation on how detached and manipulative the discussion about copyright is becoming. "NBC/Universal general counsel Rick Cotton suggests that society wastes entirely too much money policing crimes like burglary, fraud, and bank-robbing, when it should be doing something about piracy instead. 'Our law enforcement resources are seriously misaligned,' Cotton said. 'If you add up all the various kinds of property crimes in this country, everything from theft, to fraud, to burglary, bank-robbing, all of it, it costs the country $16 billion a year. But intellectual property crime runs to hundreds of billions [of dollars] a year.'" Ars points out how completely specious that "hundreds of billions" is.
Submission: NBC's schizophrenia on P2P by Anonymous Coward
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Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Huh? And this guy makes how much money every year?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sort of like the old addage " Steal a fish from a man, he won't eat for a day. Tell the whole village how to steal his fish, and he'll never eat again."
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Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
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It can be a lot faster to just download it , then to go looking for some scratched cd stacked in a box somewhere , wich probably won't play anyway.
You payed for that , so why shoudn't you download it ?
Also , what would the price be ? A new song is a lot more expensive than a song played 20 years ago.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Still.. what a douche.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Not replying to you so much as replying to the NBC exec....
Of course piracy is worse than robbery. Holding someone up at gunpoint or with a sword while in the middle of an ocean and threatening to kill them if they don't hand over all of their valuables is about as bad as you can get. I mean, what's to stop them from killing their victims just out of spite? There's certainly no possibility of law enforcement ever being able to catch them, practically speaking, as they're out in the absolute middle of nowhere, so it is basically a low-risk, high rewards way of leaching off of society.
Oh, wait... you are talking about copyright infringement? Worse than robbery?
*blinks*
*spews soda everywhere, then laughs hysterically*
That's a good one. You really had me going there. I thought you were serious for a minute. You're kidding me, right? Right? ... Right? ........... *blinks*
Parent
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BSG anyone (Score:3, Insightful)
Just my first thought and £0.02
Re:BSG anyone (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And I hear that Global Frequency got axed and buried [wikipedia.org] precisely because the pilot got leaked and was incredibly popular on P2P networks.
The minds of movie execs move in mysterious ways.
Simple economics (Score:4, Insightful)
I have always wanted to buy cool things... I reward convenience with my cash. I reward innovation with my cash. I reward customer service with more cash than if I find a cheaper competing product or service.
If a company didn't respond to market changes in the past, it was called incompetence and the management was fired. These days it seems like the short term desire for quarterly profits blinds people to that.
As I said, you can spin the results any way you want. What makes the money is selling what people want.
The spin NBC is applying here: (Score:2)
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I love it when spin doctors change the reality of the situation.
If you want spin doctoring, his comment about disincentives is hilarious.
Piracy is just another variable in the "will this be profitable" equation. The equation for DVDs and movies is stupid simple, but is a bit more complex for TV.
TV: Possible advertising sales - cost to produce - possible eyeballs (ad revenue) lost to piracy = X
If X > alternatives for that timeslot then you have a keeper
Does he really expect us to believe that "not making as big of a profit" is a disincentive?
NBC's real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
The last things on NBC I watched was Hero's and the Knight Rider Movie. Both of them felt very funny like i was watching 4 minutes of show and 4 minutes of commercials. by the time i got through 2 hours of the Knight Rider movie I was pissed off.
Watching NBC is like listening to Wil liam Shat ner speeeeaak. Ev ery thing is drawn out.
sorry I couldn't keep it up my brain kept fixing the errors.
Cut the ads down to less than 15 minutes per 30 minute episode and people might start watching again.
Re:NBC's real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should I spend $100 a month for lack of quality programming despite the vast array of "choices" of hundreds of channels
There was a time I had both Satellite and Cable TV; now I have neither. It is simply easier to BitTorrent the few things I like, and sans the rest. Then I can watch what I want at my leisure, on my schedule, free of commercials that rarely, if ever, promote anything I am interested in anyway.
If the network providers like NBC, CBS, etc. can't understand that, the to balls with them. I am more than happy to pay for quality, and that also means not being inundated with bazillions of commercials that take me out of the story anyway.
NBC is its own problem. They now have to compete with YouTube and MySpace and MMORPGs and everything else we can do online. That's the real thing that is killing them. They just can't compete, and they use P2P as a scapegoat to whine about their "losses".
Even the news outlets like MSNBC and CNN leave a lot to be desired, which is obviously more interested in the corporate bottom line and political correctness than reporting real news. I always find it amusing to read on the BBC website interesting news happening in my "backyard" here in the US without seeing any reference of the same on our own news outlets. Funny that.
Give Me Quality Content, and I will be more than happy to give you my eyes, and maybe a few bills as well.
Parent
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If I go to watch an edition of Shakespeare in the Park, I don't watch the latest American Idol. If I listen to the Brandenburger Concertos, I don't listen to Lindsey Lohan. If I watch Metropolis, I don't watch 10,000 BC. If I play Chess, I don't play Teamf
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Re:NBC's real problem (Score:5, Interesting)
On another note, I've noticed that they've put the original Battlestar Galactica series on NBC.com in the past month or two. Let's hope they put the new shows online when they come out in another month, too,... ;-)
Parent
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I know Sci-fi channel does a lot of 22,8 setups. And it is to those that i am comparing.
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While there may be no one obvious solution, if you're a TV network there are definitely some things to NOT do.
1. DO NOT put MORE ads in your programs - you'll
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Nothing to see here... move along (Score:5, Insightful)
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How do you propose they legally do that? Are you willing to let them investigate p2p traffic and take a look?
Prove it was pirated! I dare you.
Be careful what you wish for. What if he's right? How does that affect your arugment? For the record I'm willing to bet most p2p traffic *is* transferring copyprotected works to people who don't have any license of any sort to the work at all.
Yes P2P has legitimate uses, and yes, those uses are significant, but you think they are
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Exactly. And I even use it from time to time.
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The Real Robbery/Piracy... (Score:3, Interesting)
Happens when the network's "content", which turns out to be nothing other than more disappointing dreck, wastes my time, energy and other resources. That's piracy against me.
Trust me, NBC/Universal, none of your nonsense flows through any of the copper in my house.
Same goes for the other traditional "TV networks" in these United States.
Piracy also hurts corn growers (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Piracy also hurts corn growers (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Piracy also hurts corn growers (Score:5, Informative)
Almost right.
Let's try again. Monsanto owns the copyright on popcorn seeds. Only Monsanto can grow popcorn. Some farmers in China managed to copy a couple of seeds and are growing their own popcorn.
Someone else drives a harvester through Monsanto's field and steals their popcorn crop.
Which is theft and which is a copyright violation? Get it right. In one case Monsanto still has a field of popcorn. In another, it has been stolen.
It boils down to protecting a single popcorn growers monopoly on the popcorn market. This isn't about theft. It's about copies of a product.
If you can only buy popcorn at Regal Cinemas at $8.00 a tub, that is a monopoly. Fortunately I can legally buy popcorn seed to grow my own, or buy bulk seed and pop my own.
http://www.popcornpopperdirect.com/popcornsupplies.html [popcornpopperdirect.com]
50 lbs of seed (4 ea 12.5 lb sacks) for under $40.
You can plant it if you wish. This is enough for about 4 acres of land.
http://www.wildlifetrends.com/deer.cfm [wildlifetrends.com]
I used the Monsanto company as an example as they are into genetic engineering and are suing the neighborhood farmers who happen to be the unlucky recipients of cross pollination from the designer varieties. They are trying to litigate the competition out of business. The above "We own the copyright on popcorn is becoming reality.
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/MonsantovsFarmers.php [i-sis.org.uk]
Monsanto VS Farmers
Parent
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts (Score:4, Insightful)
I see no mention of consumers in there. I didn't realize that patents and copyrights were to protect consumers. Please, explain this to me.
Can't say that I agree (Score:2)
If the worst that happens is writter's strike level of "new content" then I am all for piracy.
P2P is the solution to NBC (Score:5, Insightful)
No, you dumbass... I think you don't understand that P2P was the answer to all the things you did to piss off consumers.
Forcing TiVo to eliminate the commercial skip pissed off consumers.
Using outdated ratings and canceling popular shows pissed off consumers.
Eliminating popular distribution methods (like ITMS) pissed off consumers.
When you alienate enough of them - they fix the problem themselves. P2P is the solution to the problems you created.
TV itself was a gamble when it first came to the public. NBC invested in it. Now they say they won't invest in new mediums because of pirates... give me a damn break. Quit your bitching and listen to your viewers - yes, even the pirates.
Pies in the Oven (Score:2)
If NBC uses P2P... aren't THEY the pirates ? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm seen a ton of the usually P2P and "Piracy" comments... let's look at the other part of what they want to do...
Use a P2P network that they didn't build, didn't buy or contribute to, didn't ask permission to be on, all in order to promote their content and make money.
Who are the real "pirates" here ? NBC it seems. Why doesn't someone just build a filter that prevents NBC from placing content on the network ? Shouldn't NBC put money into BitTorrent, or be accused of stealing themselves ?
Talking about disincentives... (Score:2)
In Other Words (Score:2)
And raping of my sister (Score:2)
Who cares about crimes that don't affect me? We should spend more taxpayers money on crimes that reduces the sales of my goods.
Of Course Not! (Score:2)
He is right! (Score:3, Insightful)
Fine, stop making your shit then. (Score:2)
Well, who's fault is that? (Score:4, Insightful)
And who's fault is that, exactly? Who sat on their heels, clinging desperately to their sinking and outdated business model while new distribution systems were built? Who refused to license content to the new distribution systems? Who, after years of being thrashed by modern technology, finally tried to counter the problem by building DRM encumbered systems that gave the customer far less value than the "pirate" option, while charging much more?
Content owners have, in effect, "trained" the public to be pirates. If a DRM-free system for downloading TV shows and music had existed 10 years ago, most people would probably never have bothered with Napster, and this whole problem would have never existed. If 6 years ago, the content owners had responded to Napster and other P2P technologies with innovation instead of lawsuits, likely software like Napster would have remained a niche product, used by the technically competent (as opposed to, say, my mother). All this senseless talk of "ISP level filtering" only tells us that the content owners have not yet learned the lesson. They are doomed to failure.
Re:Because it's only a bad thing... (Score:5, Informative)
I see no problem with them being anti-piracy, pro-copyright, and pro-using p2p for legal means.
Parent
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He does however recognize that AT&T (and other ISPs who would use a
Re:The summary... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
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So far the answer is that if you're willing to contribute resources to the p2p network you can get access to content that you can't otherwise get, or to get it at a higher quality than you can get without p2p. For an example of the latter, if a video publisher can afford to spend $X per delivery, that revenue number limits what they can afford to