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RealNetworks To Introduce a Simple DVD Copier
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon Sep 08, 2008 08:22 AM
from the why-must-there-always-be-drm dept.
from the why-must-there-always-be-drm dept.
langelgjm writes "The New York Times reports that RealNetworks will begin selling RealDVD today, a software program designed to make copying DVDs a trivial task for the average user. Unlike free alternatives, which generally require some technical knowledge and make it difficult to copy an entire DVD with extras, etc., RealDVD claims to be able to copy the entire DVD, menus and all. While sure to raise the ire of Hollywood, the program does have significant limitations: the DVDs it makes will only be playable on the computer where they were created; or, users can pay $20 per computer to play the DVDs on up to five additional computers."
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Your Rights Online: Can You Be Sued For Helping Clients Rip DVDs? 231 comments
DRMer writes "CE Pro has a series of stories that tries to untangle the legalities of DVD ripping in light of the recent RealDVD announcement from RealNetworks. In one of the stories, EFF Attorney Fred von Lohmann discusses the potential liability of those who resell or install DVD-ripping machines (the courts have yet to rule). Another article provides a rather amusing look at how manufacturers justify the legality of their products. Here's one example: 'We are just like Microsoft Vista that does not have a CSS [Content Scramble System] license.'"
[+]
Your Rights Online: RealNetworks, Film Industry Headed To Court 173 comments
netbuzz writes "Apparently tired of waiting to be sued by the movie studios over its new DVD-to-PC copying software, RealNetworks this morning announced it will file a preemptive lawsuit in an attempt to authoritatively establish that the product does not infringe on copyright restrictions. Within an hour or so, the Motion Picture Association of America said it would have a litigation announcement of its own this afternoon."
[+]
Your Rights Online: In Response To Restraining Order, Real Networks Pulls RealDVD 193 comments
eldavojohn writes "RealNetworks' product that allows one to copy a DVD containing a movie has been pulled. You may recall us discussing RealDVD and its legal implications." According to the linked BBC report, "RealNetworks — the firm behind the software — has responded to restraining order issued by a US court stopped selling the RealDVD software [sic]. Six major movie studios jointly sued the company on 30 September — the day the software was launched."
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Slashvertisement (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Slashvertisement (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Slashvertisement (Score:4, Funny)
If this is a Slashvertisement, they've got the audience wrong. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows how to copy a DVD without having to pay 20 bucks to Real Networks
....or install their garbage programs that are basically bloatware with little tricky adware-esque properties to them as well.
Realnetworks have made *horrible* products in the last 8 years. I will never install realplayer again since it always bloats out into something much much bigger and worthless than most people ever intend. We just want something that will play an .rm because some guy hasn't figured out the concept of mp3 yet. We don't need all the other garbage and *usually* have all of those bases covered without bloaty mcbloaterson's special bloat formula.
did I say bloat enough?
Parent
Re:Slashvertisement (Score:5, Funny)
The question is why one would use this program?
The timing couldn't have been more perfect. I have these 4,000-odd clips I need to save from this website...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This is nice software, but I don't usually copy the whole DVD.
I only copy individual episodes, and store them as AVIs or XVIDs. What I need is a program that can automate that process so I can (for example) quickly and easily insert a Stargate DVD, and come back an hour later to 4 episode AVIs on my C: drive.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If you find it, tell me. So far, what I've done is used ddfmrip.bat, AutoGK, AutoGKAdd (it's a hacked-together AutoIt script) and some homebrew batch files tying these together. The downsides are;
- I still have to tell it what VTS/PGCs I want done (honestly, I have no idea how any program could work this out - a lot of DVDs have 2 chains for some episodes and not for others, so doing it by approximate time is out)
- It requires a lot of hard disk space
- The programs aren't properly named (I can get as far
Re:Slashvertisement (Score:4, Insightful)
Huh, AFAIK Handbrake is for both win, linux and OS X. Did I miss something?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
AFAIK Handbrake is for both win, linux and OS X
Handbrake on some platforms cannot decrypt CSS. Can you name three new releases without CSS?
Re:Slashvertisement (Score:5, Insightful)
What I need is a program that can automate that process so I can (for example) quickly and easily insert a Stargate DVD, and come back an hour later to 4 episode AVIs on my C: drive.
i=1
for title in {3,5,7,8}; do
mencoder "dvd://$title" -o "episode_$i.avi";
i=$(($i+1));
done
Parent
Re:Slashvertisement (Score:4, Funny)
Brilliant- I just sent that code to my mom so now she'll be able to rip all of her DVDs on her Dell. Couldn't be simpler.
Parent
Re:Slashvertisement (Score:4, Funny)
Your Mum watches Stargate AND runs Linux?!
Parent
Re:Slashvertisement (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think anyone was questioning why anyone would want to copy DVD's - just why they'd want to do so with this program. Doing so with the free stuff out there isn't THAT hard. When you figure that this software introduces DRM, locks to a single computer, and then tries to extort out $20 for the right to play on more computers, it's a pretty lousy deal.
PARTICULARLY nasty is the fact that Real seems to think that they can use DRM extortion tactics on content that don't own. That's a situation that is true regardless of whether or not the media is even pirated. If it's a major studio film, then Real has no legal ability to extra money from restricting rights to that. OR, even if it's just your wedding DVD you're copying - you are legally fine to copy it but you own the copyright yourself and Real has no legal right to restrict your usage of it.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I wouldn't really consider the DRM to be a restriction of rights, since the only thing thats being limited is the functionality of the company's own program, gimping their own program was a stupid thing to do, but as long as their upfront about the functionality, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to.
That being said, I'm sure there are numerous DRM free, nearly one-click dvd cloning programs available for free, so I doubt this'll be purchased by any but the ignorant, which kind of makes any debate of th
Re:Slashvertisement (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think anyone was questioning why anyone would want to copy DVD's - just why they'd want to do so with this program. Doing so with the free stuff out there isn't THAT hard.
The only 'real' advantage to this program is that you can go into a store and buy it. It comes from a semi-legit company and probably doesn't have too many spyware and popup modules included.
Take an objective look at say "Doom9.net - The definitive DVD backup resource". The home page is covered with jibberish about things called "eac3to" and "DGAVCDec" and "AviSynth". Even aside from the vaugely hackerish feel of the site, this is hugely intimidating for the average dumbass.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The summary is misleading (Score:5, Insightful)
If it won't produce something that will play on a standard stand-alone DVD player, then IT'S NOT A DVD AND THIS IS NOT A "DVD Copier." This is just a ripper that adds an annoying layer of DRM to the files (umm...no thanks). And you get to pay for the privilege, no less. Woo hoo!
There are any number of one-button DVD rippers that are just as good, just as simple, and produce an actual DVD. And many of them are free. DVDfab [wikipedia.org] is just one example. It produces an actual DVD, it's as simple as it gets to use, and it doesn't cost a dime (unless you want the premium version).
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think so. With regular ripped DVDs, I suspect you're at risk of having your laptop seized at the U.S. border. With the files produced by this tool, since it's supposedly fully licensed, you may be ok.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Right. Like the customs people will actually know the difference. Do you really expect them to distinguish between a legal copy of a DVD produced by this tool, and an equally legal copy of a DVD produced by another (illegal, according to the DMCA) tool?
Re:The summary is misleading (Score:5, Informative)
OS X comes with something better than this seems to be. It's called Disk Utility. Put in the DVD, hit the 'Make Image' button, and get a disk image out. You can play this in Apple's DVD Player (also included with OS X), or with VLC or any other DVD player. I don't think you can burn it to a DVD without removing the CSS (which Disk Utility doesn't do - it's basically a GUI on dd).
Possibly this recompresses as well, but with hard disk space so cheap there doesn't seem much point (and recompressing at decent quality still takes some hours on even a reasonably fast computer).
Parent
Re:The summary is misleading (Score:5, Informative)
That's just the same as "dd if=/dev/$dvd of=my.iso"
Nothing special. Any *nix box can do this, assuming you are dumping to a filesystem that can deal with file sizes > 4GB.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
(which Disk Utility doesn't do - it's basically a GUI on dd)
The difference between Disk Utility and dd is that one is usable by anyone barely computer-literate who is capable of clicking on a single button, and the other isn't.
Re:The summary is misleading (Score:4, Informative)
And if the DVD has CSS you'll wind up with NOTHING of use by doing that. Simply copying the VIDEO_TS folder to a new DVD or disk image will result in CSS-scrambled content that can't be unscrambled because the key to unscramble it is in a non-normally-readable portion of the disk. Meaning, a program designed to read video DVDs can get at the key, but it isn't in the filesystem that the OS sees.
Parent
Not really a DVD then? (Score:4, Interesting)
"the DVDs it makes will only be playable on the computer where they were created"
Doesn't this make it *not* an actual DVD, but rather an encoded video on a disc that just happens to be shaped like a DVD with the capacity of a DVD? Kind of like how all those DRM'd CDs can't actually be called "compact discs" because they don't adhere to the red book standard?
Re:Not really a DVD then? (Score:5, Informative)
It's still a DVD and still a CD. However, if you add DRM to a CD it cannot bear the Compact Disk Digital Audio symbol since it violates the Red Book specification. DVD is also the same in the sense that it wouldn't allowed to be called DVD Video because it wouldn't be following the standard set aside for it. DVD (Digital Versatile Disk) is still the name of the actual medium being written to.
Parent
PCs? (Score:5, Insightful)
Free are hard to use??? (Score:5, Interesting)
AnyDVD + DVD shrink is brain dead easy to use if you really want to copy all the crap on the DVD.
Want just the movie on your laptop use handbrake. easy as pie.
How is this news? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yeah, was going to say (Score:5, Insightful)
It's really lame that they make stuff like DVDDecrypter illegal but still insist on sticking to the region encoding crap. In the US, the only way I can get some foreign content is to purchase it from a foreign location and use DVDDecrypter to get rid of the region encoding so I can actually view it using my region 1 DVD player.
Why is it that in a so-called "global economy" we are limited to buying and viewing DVDs produced for our own region without circumventing the encryption on the disc (thereby technically violating the DMCA)?
Parent
Re:Yeah, was going to say (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Yeah, was going to say (Score:4, Informative)
AnyDVD can strip region Coding too... plus it rips HD-DVD and Blu-Ray HD content too (removing all CCS, Region coding, and other DRM like BD+, etc..)
You can burn back to a blank DVD (double or single layer DVDs, but DVD-R works best in most players) or to a blank Blu-Ray "BD-R" using the burner of your choice.
Standard set-top players should play the burned disks just fine in most modern DVD drives. (I use CloneDVD2 for this)...
I find taking one (or each type) of your burned disks to the store and trying it on the set-top DVD players *before* purchase (where DVD drive showrooms are available) makes pre-sales testing go smoother. Not all set-top DVD players are created equal nor are they all well-endowed by their creators...
A Blu-Ray burner is way too costly at this time, but I have ripped a few Blu-Rays with AnyDVD HD (same program, but you can pay for the more expensive HD ripping key if desired) and they sure look good playing from their DRM-Free and Region-Free images off my HDD (at 1920x1200).
Who says that HDCP (another hardware-based DRM schema) monitors are required to watch digital HDMI Blu-Ray content on my PC!
I am SURE that rips of disks that have no region coding and no CCS and BD+ or any other DRM would play on about any flavor of *nix that had a media player which can handle the format...
Blu-Ray "BD-R" burners need to come down in cost to a reasonable level and blank media needs to be under $1 per disk... then I'll just go to that. Business as usual.
(Of Course, I purchase ALL of the disks that I "rip" and copy for MY PERSONAL USE ONLY, Ahem..) You know, for my Non-Windows and Non-OSX boxes and for use in other devices that I own...
"Backup Copies". Also great for the typical destructive 2-18 year olds who want to "watch" a copy of my new movie and often return it scratched because apparently they used it as a slider to move furniture...
I Purchased AnyDVD and CloneDVD2 two years ago (and later the HD upgrade for the AnyDVD ripper) and they are still going strong with frequent and free updates and it has worked on hundreds of DVDs and a few Blu-Rays and several HD-DVD disks too ever since.
I NEVER pay Real Networks for anything...
Parent
Legality, Major Limitation, DVD shrink (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm assuming they get by the legality of selling it by stating it is for use for the single copy you are allowed to make. Still, I'm sure they'll see some pressure from the content providers.
Most "average" users I know play they're dvds on their tvs, not their computers. I hope they explicitly state only plays on a computer on the label, or a lot of average customers will be rather annoyed.
Finally, I remember something about dvd shrink (which is extremely easy for average users when used with dvd-decrypter, though not legal in the us) may be actually legal in the EU since CSS does not effectively protect the content. Here [pcworld.com] is a link to one of the articles. Any way we can push this through in the US?
"Simple" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No way can it be simple.
Think not?
Doesn't this still... (Score:3, Insightful)
Even so, I'll agree with other
Real shoots itself in the head again (Score:5, Insightful)
Attempting to bilk people for $30 software that makes a DRM'd copy of a movie just isn't going to fly when free and non-free tools already exist that rip DVDs to any format you like. Especially when Real Networks is reknowned for producing bloated spyware laced crap. If you want to go free, find DVD Decrypter & Handbrake and you can rip and encode movies suitable for a variety of formats and devices. If you want non-free then use AnyDVD and Nero Recode. The tools are not as simple as they could be but they work and they work extremely well.
Real (buffering... buffering) DVD (buffering)... (Score:5, Funny)
TOTALLY worthless (Score:5, Informative)
Two step process for me. Mac The Ripper to decrypt/rip the entire DVD (menus and all) to a VIDEO_TS folder on my hard drive. Insert CD, click a button. Not too technical.
From there I can use VLC to play it as much as I want on any computer I copy it to. Can have a large HD full of complete DVDs immediately accessible. (and there are apps that will jukebox them for you)
From there I have to use a commercial app like Roxio's Toast to burn it to a physical CD, that works in a real DVD player. But Toast has always been a very good product, worth the coin. Drag and drop the VIDEO_TS folder into Toast and click burn. Only slightly more technical procedure than MTR.
Did I mention MTR strips out the NOOPs ("operation not permitted" when trying to FF past the FBI warning etc) and also removes region coding, during the rip?
Who on earth would pay for REALcrap?
Re:TOTALLY worthless (Score:4, Informative)
Just an FYI, if you have Mac OS X 10.5, you can place the Video_TS folder into the Movies folder (or an alias) and use Front Row.
Parent
How hard? (Score:5, Informative)
DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink. How hard is it, really?
I could teach my wife to do that in about five minutes. As an added bonus, it's free, it removes region protection, it removes UOP's (possibly the most annoying part of the DVD format to most people), keeps all the menus, shrinks it onto the cheaper single-layer DVD-R's with virtually zero visible difference and it doesn't have silly restrictions. A program with silly restrictions to stop a particular format from having silly restrictions?
I just backed up a couple of my boxsets using this because they were slightly damaged when we took them on holiday with us and I don't want to pay for them again if we do damage them. The majority of the time was spent looking at a little window wending its way through the DVD and swapping discs (I only had the one DVD-writer drive plugged in at the time and had to swap original for blank constantly).
I even did it using WINE because the PC with the writer was a home Linux server, and it worked perfectly. I very much doubt you could make it THAT much simpler, except possibly joining the two programs together and incurring the wrath of the DVD industry by doing so (does this software strip region-protection? It doesn't mention it).
I can't see anybody using this... people "in-the-know" enough to distinguish between DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD-RAM etc. and who know that this "is possible" are probably already doing it. I can't even get my parents to copy their CD's before they scratch them and that's a one-click operation. I can't see them doing it for their DVD's even if it's a one-click operation with this software. And, to be honest, I'd rather show them the "two-click" method that gets rids of the UOPS because that would astound them and they would kill to have that feature on their existing DVD's.
Real is not relevant (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
When's the last time Real mattered? They chose the wrong path a long, long time ago and something as stupid as an automatic DRM inserter doesn't get them headed in the right direction. This company seems to have no clue about the realities of digital content use and management.
I remember mocking its 1998 version as obsolete back in 1998, and since then they seem to have fallen farther behind their competition. So maybe 1997.
Free tools are hard (Score:4, Insightful)
Unlike free alternatives, which generally require some technical knowledge and make it difficult to copy an entire DVD with extras, etc.,...
What??? Maybe you're right.. there are a ton of steps..
Using DVDShrink and CDBurnerXP. Steps to copy a disk:
1) Insert DVD.
2) Launch DVDShrink.
3) Select Open Disc.
4) Select Backup.
5) Choose Backup location (make note of this location).
6) When complete, exit DVDShrink.
7) Launch CDBurnerXP.
8) Select Burn Disc from ISO.
9) Eject the source DVD and insert a blank DVD.
10) Select the source ISO.
11) Press Burn.
12) Wait
Actual time outside of the wait is about 20 seconds of real work.. Of course, I've listed EVERY step. If I detailed how to save a file in Notepad it would take quite a few steps...
1) Wait until the computer boots.
2) Click on Start.
3) Click on All Programs.
4) Click on Accessories.
5) Click on Notepad.
6) Type your message into the editing window.
7) Click on File.
8) Click on Save.
9) When prompted, select a location to save your file.
10) Press OK. (or SAVE)
11) Select File.
12) Select Exit.
Real?! (Score:3, Insightful)
They're still around?
What? RealNetworks? (Score:3, Insightful)
How do RealNetworks stay in business? Are they secretly funded by Microsoft as a distraction? A front for CIA? What the heck is going on?
I look forward to the advertising campaign:
'Hey there, do you find the region encoding and DRM on DVD not restrictive or costly enough? Here at RealNetworks we have the answer to your prayers! Order today and we will double the price _and_ infect you with Hepatitis C!'
They got it all wrong. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's a good thing (Score:5, Informative)
you mean like dvdshrink?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
or k9copy [sourceforge.net]?
Seconded (Score:3, Insightful)
I fail to see DVD copying could be done simpler than with k9copy.
Insert DVD, click "make DVD copy", wait, done.
Re:It's a good thing (Score:5, Informative)
The problem with DVD shrink is that development stopped even before ARCoSS, which means that many newever DVDs can not be ripper directly without additional software. You can eiuther use DVD Decrypter (which is free, but introdues a very cumbersome step into the mix) or you can buy AnyDVD which sits just above the driver level and makes the DVD in the drive appear as a normal unencrypted, non copy-protected DVD. So even with DVDShrink, which is probably the best thing out there in my opinion, you either waste time or money, which is really the same thing anyway.
Parent
Re:It's a good thing (Score:4, Informative)
CloneDVD isn't free, but it does everything that this program claims to do, except without any DRM (AnyDVD, often sold together with CloneDVD, helps eliminate DRM and region codes). all it takes is a few mouse clicks on the "next" button after you've popped the DVD and a blank into your computer, and the program starts making a duplicate of whatever movie you want. works on any video DVD, and it will also strip out previews/warnings for you (AnyDVD will also automatically skip over previews/warnings for DVDs you watch on your computer) and let you select the language/audio tracks you want on the copy. if you have a dual-layer DVD9 burner, you can just click "next" without changing any settings at all.
RealDVD is worthless plain and simple. it's not going to spawn anything except some suckers who are willing to waste their money on crippled software/DVDs.
Parent