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New Dune Movie Confirmed
Posted by
kdawson
on Fri Apr 04, 2008 09:29 AM
from the mouse-shadow dept.
from the mouse-shadow dept.
bowman9991 writes "Peter Berg will be directing a new big-budget Dune movie from Paramount. SFFMedia reports that 'although there were some doubts that they were going to get it,' the producers have secured the rights to the Dune novel from Frank Herbert's estate and are looking for writers to provide a screenplay that is true to the original text. Can't wait!"
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multiple sequels usually don't work too well (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:multiple sequels usually don't work too well (Score:5, Insightful)
But I still think that any new movie has to be measured against this. As I have understood it that movie was cut down quite a bit. I heard that there was 8 hours cut out of the original filming. But I suspect that some of it were bad scenes and duplicates and that the remaining parts have been destroyed by now so a "full version" or anything else may be lost to the void.
But another question is - Why redo that book again? Let us see some other of the well-known authors filmed. Asimov's "Nightfall", Gordon Dickson's "Way of the Pilgrim", Frederick Pohl's "Gateway", Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" (which gave us the word "Grok") or "Citizen of the Galaxy", Keith Laumer's "Galactic Odyssey", Jack Vance's "The Demon Princes", Alfred Bester's "The Stars My Destination", Jack McDevitt's "A Talent for War", Brian Aldiss epic "Helliconia", Christopher Anvil's "Pandora's Planet", Steven Gould's "Helm", Alfred Elton van Vogt's "The Empire of Isher".
There are also books that are better suited for TV series of course. Gordon Dickson's Dorsai books and the many Sector General stories from James White.
And there are books/authors that has produced enough material to allow creation of an epic series that sure could take on Star Wars (but sure be very different) like Iain M Banks Culture novels, the "Hope" series of David Feintuch, Asimov's foundation books, Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game" and following books.
But maybe this just indicates that Hollywood needs to play it safe - but I think that they play it too safe in this case. One movie that's available on DVD still and the mini-series that was released a few years ago must surely have blunted the market for a third movie on the same story.
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Re:multiple sequels usually don't work too well (Score:5, Interesting)
So, how would ya'll cast Ringworld, the Movie?
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Re:multiple sequels usually don't work too well (Score:5, Informative)
Not technically a movie, but only because of length and presentation format. It had the production values easily - so it was pretty much a 4-5 hour long movie (and was sold on DVD that way).
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Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Insightful)
The first Dune movie sucked. Maybe you never read the books, but it didn't capture much of anything good from the book. The made for TV mini series was amazing. That's how to do Dune.
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Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't need another remake of the first book, anyway. I'd much rather they made a movie on the second or third books.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Insightful)
I would agree with you in that I much prefer Lynch's version. However, the addition of the weirding modules (and the complete avoidance of the lasgun/shield interaction problem) almost ceompletely undermined Herbert's intended mockery of religion...
In the book, Paul (and Jessica) basically exploit the natives' superstitions to use them as pawns in a mostly-political game (although in fairness they do eventually "go native"). Lynch makes it out as more of a tune-in-turn-on-drop-out messianic fairy-tale.
Both have their merits, but I'd hardly even call them the same story.
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Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:4, Insightful)
It is rather cynical, but not mocking.
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Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, its a stunning movie. I've watched it many times and am always noticing something new. The design of the objects, sets, and costumes is extremely original and creative. It builds this dark alien sci-fi mood that no other movie has, perhaps with the exception of bladerunner. Its really an incredible piece of filmmaking and I hope the generation that associates Dune with the sci-fi channel should give it a chance.
Parent
Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Interesting)
1.) Semitic-looking Fremen speaking perfect Arabic with English subtitles. Remember, the Sayyadinas reconstructed the "Language of the Book" by imbibing the Water of Life and consulting with Ancestral Memory.
2.) Weirding Way of Battle = Sufi Mysticism and Kung Fu. Not stupid sonic guns that can be sold in toy stores.
3.) Vladimir Harkonnen as the evil bastard he truly was, without the flying crap. Those suspensors were attached to him so that he could move around under his flab.
4.) DIRECTED BY DAVID CRONENBERG. Boo. Yah. It would make this Dune a very adult and very brutal movie, but dammit, the books were written for adults, not for the moms little kids who wanted another Star Wars to take their kids to. See A History Of Violence or Eastern Promises to see what Cronenberg is capable of now.
5.) Guild Steersmen who look like mutant humans, not sandworms.
6.) Ornithopters with elegant, sweeping wings that flap and glide like birds of prey.
7.) Viggo Mortensen as Duke Leto. Awesome.
Parent
Dune and Religion (Score:4, Informative)
Now you're spot-on about them being semitic, but I would argue against Arabic. Yes, there are a lot of Arabic words borrowed and adapted, but the actual language examples in the book are NOT Arabic based, but rather a dialect of Roma (according to Wikipedia, YMMV). Secondly, even though the Fremen religion is called Zensunni, it is not distinctly Muslim in any way. Based on what we do read of the Fremen religion I would argue that they are more Mizrahi JEW (with Zen sprinkles) than Muslim. Let me make my case:
Herbert played fast and loose with his religion, mixing things around a lot. This ISN'T sloppiness though, since he fully intended to have his religions be amalgams: The appendix in Dune says the Orange Catholic Bible "contains elements of most ancient religions, including
Now, what we actually know about the Fremen religious tradition is mostly centered around the Messianic nature of Paul, which fits in very closely with the Orthodox Jewish notion of the Messiah (anointed leader who takes power and rules etc). The Muslim notion of the Mahdi is vaguely like a messiah, however it is not of the highest cannon (it's only in the Hadith, not in the Qu'ran) and what the Mahdi will do is not always explicitly said. Consequently, it's not a formal doctrine of all Islam and there are vastly different interpretations between sects: The Sufis and some Shias take it pretty seriously, but even those beliefs don't correlate with Paul Atreides very well; the Sunni (>80% of Muslims) are ambivalent about it. This all comes back around to the fact that the Fremen are "Zensunni", not Zensufi or Zenshia, which are given as distinct religious groups.
Another important fact we know about the Fremen is that they spent generations in slavery, and they wandered the galaxy before settling on Arrakis... That's a clue-by-4 of Jewish-ness if there ever was one. No Muslim tradition includes that.
Yes, I know that the Fremen are not the only Zensunni and that Judaism is specifically referenced in the books as a distinct religion, but when you look closely, Herbert made the Fremen Jewish in all but name. It might be too late for this post to get noticed, but I had a fun time blowing my Nerd-load while writing it.
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Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Insightful)
Any movie that is actually going to be worth watching is going to have to hack out big chunks of that stuff.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I can imagine some of the later books made into movies, but I can't imagine actually wanting to watch them.
Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Funny)
Who the hell wouldn't want to see female killing machines fuck the self control out of people?
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There are so many other good yarns in this story - why go to the first one a third time?
Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Why not do another book in the series (Score:4, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Breaking the book into 2 or 3 movies might work with the right acting. Adding in Dune Messiah might make a beeter story arc for the screen too, though I might be expecting a bit much from movie audiences there.
Personally I would welcome a new movie that stayed withing the original boundaries of the book. Anything to overwrite the creative license abominations the first movie seared into my memory.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The first movie was pretty cool if viewed as a David Lynch movie (with a hilariously dated Toto soundtrack). I own it on DVD and still bust it out from time to time. My wife hates it because she doesn't know the story, finds it boring and difficult to follow, and hates all the corny internal monologue. All valid criticism, but I still love it in that same weird way I love the rest of L
How many times are we going to do it? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ok ok, the first one [wikipedia.org] was a bit off (but it had Patrick Stewart and Sting!).
But the Sci-fi Channel version [wikipedia.org] was pretty good.
I just wonder what is to be gained by doing it again.
Re:How many times are we going to do it? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know, but I hope they find a group of musicians on par with Toto!
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Reading the book can ruin the movie ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe, if you have not read the book. The 1980s theatrical movie had good acting and a good story but plot elements really knocked the movie down a notch, for example for many who read the book the sound based weapons were a strong negative. The Fremen won fights because their environment and culture made them tough, it was not a technological gimmick. The movie discarded a major element of the book, people adapting to and being influenced (culturally and physically) by their environment.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe, if you have not read the book. The 1980s theatrical movie had good acting and a good story but plot elements really knocked the movie down a notch, for example for many who read the book the sound based weapons were a strong negative. The Fremen won fights because their environment and culture made them tough, it was not a technological gimmick. The movie discarded a major element of the book, people adapting to and being influenced (culturally and physically) by their environment.
A-frickkin'-men-, brother.
Dune may have been dedicated to dryland ecologists, but we all know the book and series were for Anthropologists.
Dune is rooted in Islamic Culture (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Dune is rooted in Islamic Culture (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the key points of Dune is not necessarily power or oppression but political trappings. It is much more a criticism of how the powers than be (the emperor, the navigator's guild, the bene gesserit, etc.) were all interlocked and trapped by each other in a perpetual cycle of deceit and backstabbing. None of them could accomplish anything and humanity was at a standstill destined for extinction should anything slight thing (such as the sandworms dying) interrupt their routine.
It's an allegory to the dependence on oil and the globalized politics of today. How even the U.S., being the superpower that it is, is locked into binding treaties and very restricted in terms of what it can do to help itself or the world.
Parent
Not relevant to our times ... (Score:4, Insightful)
That is not relevant to our times, it is relevant to all of human history.
No, *extremists* are usually looking for any excuse or pretext to justify their actions. Legitimate grievances are not required.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That aside, you're reading into the minor parts that most likely to pad the story with details. The Kwizatz Haderach is simply a profit figure. It unites the Fremen to become the dominant power of the world (and quite violently so). That is very allegorical towards modern day extremist Islam.
The other theme is that the profit of the Fremen is not complete. The later books show this in that Leto II came and did away
The problem is not the director (Score:5, Insightful)
That was my problem with it, basically (Score:5, Insightful)
If you had already read the book, I guess it wasn't a bad movie. It had just enough visual clues to let your memory do the rest. So you can look an go, "ooh, I know, this is the Gom Jabbar sequence", and you'd already know what led there, where it goes from there, and why is that important. While the movie would move to the next scene and give you yet another piece, and again, it would be mostly up to your memory to fill in the gap and put the new scene in context too.
I, however, must have been one of the few who saw the movie before reading the book. In fact, I got the book only because the movie didn't make that much sense at times, and certainly didn't leave me with the awe for Dune that everyone else semed to have. (I know, I know, I'll hand in my nerd card now;) It wasn't a _bad_ movie per se, but in retrospect it just wasn't Dune. It was a mildly SF-themed action movie, where some guys fought for some desert planet, for some resource those guys had. And not only it was just as superficial as any other action movie (it could have been "Rambo Does Iraq" just as well), but the plot seemed a little bit condensed and rushed through even by action movie standards. Everything that made it... well, made it _Dune_, was at best hinted at, and sometimes it came via short scenes that didn't seem to make that much sense or have much relevance for the rest of the movie.
Again, in retrospect I can see how you'd figure it out if you had read the book already, and only used the movie as a visual summary. Without that background, I wasn't impressed much.
Can someone else do better? Heck if I know, to be honest. One can only hope. It's certainly impossible to do justice to the whole Dune story, you're right in that aspect. But maybe he can make a movie that at least makes sense on its own.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Obligatory (Score:3, Insightful)
Oooh, oooh! (Score:5, Funny)
It is by fanboys alone... (Score:5, Funny)
It is by the news of cool that mobs begin to form, the slash begins to dot, the hype begins to build.
It is by fanboys alone that drool is set in motion.
Re:It is by fanboys alone... (Score:5, Funny)
Look up a bit. There are signs over the aisles. Look for the one that says: COFFEE
Parent
Nope (Score:4, Interesting)
What makes Dune great is it's breadth of subject matter enveloping politics, revenge, society (both tribal and "civilized"), power, religion, hierarchical hegemony and other big words. Plus, it is driven by an inner monologue from all of the main characters. How the hell do you portray inner monologue on the big screen, or any screen for that matter?
Nope, it promises to be another suckfest, a pissing on Frank Herbert's grave. And if the writer Kevin J. Anderson is involved in any way, it will be more bag-loads of awful than you can stuff into a stadium.
one book should be many movies (Score:3, Interesting)
It would give the movies more chance to cover the details of the book. Sort of like StarWars 4,5,6. Where the different movies can end on up or down notes in the overall story.
Seriously, stop remaking old ideas... (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, there's only one of two reasons why these are successful:
1) Nostalgia.
2) The idea was good the first time around.
We're rarely improving on the ideas at all. It's just mindless drivel rereleased again and again.
NBC's fall line up consists of a Jekyll and Hyde remake, followed by Knight Rider, followed by... A movie studio (not sure who) is making another "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure", and yet another is making a sequel to Wargames [imdb.com].
Seriously Hollywood: stop. Just stop it. You're embarrassing yourself.
There are plenty of other books that you could make into movie that would translate well. For example, the Feist series of books, starting with Magician: Apprentice would translate pretty well to the screen.
Epic Anime (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Epic Anime (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Wish they'd tackle Ringworld instead (Score:4, Insightful)
Now, Ringworld, on the other hand... That's a classic novel that just aches to be made into a movie. A simple, easy to follow adventure story, with interesting characters and plenty of potential for awesome visuals. *crosses fingers*
. . .true to the original text (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's hope it's not too true to the original because, Dune aside, that means hours of characters standing around with hundreds of pages of exposition and half-baked "deep" debates on politics, religion and humanity. I'm still a fan of the series, but Herbert really shot his wad after the first two or three books. After that he was just milking a franchise.
However, if they finally let H.R. Giger do the art direction, I will definitely go see it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, you would think they learned from peter Jackson that the closer to the book you hold, the more popular it is.
Besides, there's enough nerds out there, that if you get it close enough, they'll be chanting "The DVD is life!"
Re:Hope it's not like the mini series (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Please be LotR (Score:5, Insightful)
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You obviously haven't read the book (Score:3)
but, yes, it's a fantasy. So is almost all SF. Any "SF" that has faster than light travel is (probably, pending further discoveries in physics) a fantasy.