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Lego Loses Its Unique Right To Make Lego Blocks
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:01 PM
from the this-could-be-huge dept.
from the this-could-be-huge dept.
tsa writes "The European Department of Justice has decided that the Danish company Lego does not have exclusive rights to the lego building block anymore (sorry, it's in Dutch). Lego went to court after a Canadian firm had made blocks that were so like lego blocks that they even fit the real blocks made by Lego. The European judge decided that the design of the lego blocks is not protected by European trademarks and so anyone can make the blocks." If true, hopefully this will open doors for people interested in inexpensive bulk purchase of bricks of specific sizes and colors. Perhaps at long last I can build a life-sized Hemos statue for my office.
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makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
Lego was naar het Europese Hof van justitie gestapt in de strijd tegen de Canadese concurrent Mega Brands, die een blokje op de markt heeft gebracht dat past op die van Lego. Het Hof oordeelde vandaag dat het ontwerp van Lego niet is beschermd door het Europees merkenrecht en dat er dus geen sprake mag zijn van alleenrecht.
Can't really argue with that....
Re:makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
Damn. I'm only 28 and already I'm so old that I can't make sense of this "leet-speak" that kids are using these days.
Parent
Let me attempt to translate... (Score:5, Funny)
My shot at it:
Lego was near hot European Hasselhoff just in time to gestate in the stride generator concurrent with the Canada geese Mega Brands, ...okay, I give up...
Parent
Re:Let me attempt to translate... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Let me attempt to translate... (Score:5, Informative)
Babel Fish to the rescue:
"Lego had stepped to the European Court of Justice in the fight against the Canadian competitor Mega fire, which a cube on the market has brought that watches out which of Lego. The court judged today that the design of Lego has not been protected by the European merkenrecht and that there can no talk be therefore of exclusive right."
Hmmm. Well my fish is almost 40 years old.
"Lego was, according to the European Court of Justice objected in the fight against the Canadian competitor mega brands, which is a cube on the market that has brought shall apply to those of Lego. The Court ruled today that the design of Lego not protected by the European trademark law and that there is no question of exclusive rights."
Nope. Still sounds like nonsense.
Here's what Deutsche Welle says: "The European Union's Court of First Instance turned down Lego's appeal to force the EU's trademarks and designs office to reissue its trademark for the shape of its standard red Lego brick with eight cylindrical knobs.
"The EU court, however, sided with a 2004 decision made by the EU agency, which had canceled Lego's trademark after rival toy maker Canada's Mega Brands Inc. filed an appeal to Lego's application. Mega Brands produces similar plastic building blocks that compete with Lego."
Parent
Re:Let me attempt to translate... (Score:5, Informative)
Lego was naar het Europese Hof van justitie gestapt in de strijd tegen de Canadese concurrent Mega Brands, die een blokje op de markt heeft gebracht dat past op die van Lego. Het Hof oordeelde vandaag dat het ontwerp van Lego niet is beschermd door het Europees merkenrecht en dat er dus geen sprake mag zijn van alleenrecht.
Perhaps less fun..
But here is the more correct ( though quick and quite literal ) translation:
Lego went to the "Europese Hof" (a very high justice department in europe) in a battle against the Canadian competitor Mega Brands, who created a brick that fits on the lego brick. The "Hof" decided today that the design of Lego is not protected by the European Market rights, and that there thus cannot be any case for exclusive ownership.
Parent
Re:Let me attempt to translate... (Score:5, Funny)
The "Hof" decided today that the design of Lego is not protected by the European Market rights, and that there thus cannot be any case for exclusive ownership.
You know, I knew David Hasselhof was popular in Europe, but I had no idea he was so powerful!
Parent
Re:Let me attempt to translate... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Let me attempt to translate... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
I can make out this:
Lego was at the European Court gestapt in the fight against the Canadia competitor Mega Brands, who has brought to the market a block that passes for those from Lego. The court oordeelde vandaag that the ontwerp van Lego isn't proctected through the European trademark and that er dus geen sprake mag is van exclusive right.
Run that through dict-freedict-nld-eng and a copywriter to get some sensible english. Or run it through kenny to get
Pmfmppmfmppf fppmmmfmm mmmfmp fmpmfpmpp Mppfmfpffppfpfmmppmmmppp Mmfppffmfpfffmp mfmmppfmmfmpmmmpfmfmp mffppp fmpmfpmpp mpfmffmfmmfpfmp mmmmfmmmmmffpppfmmfmp fmpmfpmpp Mmfmmmpppmmmmpmmffmmm mmfppfppmpfmmppfmpmfffmpppfpff Ppmmppmfmmmm Mmppffmmmpppmpmfmm, fppmfpppf mfpmmmfmm mmppffppffmfmfmmfpfmp fmpppf fmpmfpmpp ppmmmmpffpmpmppfmp mmm mmppmfppfmmfpmp fmpmfpmmmfmp pfmmmmfmmfmmmppfmm mpfppfpff fmpmfpppffmmmpp mpfpffppfppm Pmfmppmfmppf. Fmpmfpmpp mmfppffmfpfffmp ppfppfpffmpmmppmpppmfmpmmpp fpmmmmpppmpmmmmmmmmfm fmpmfpmmmfmp fmpmfpmpp ppfpppfmpfppmpppffpfm fpmmmmppp Pmfmppmfmppf mfffmmppp'fmp pfmpffppfmmffmpmppmmffmpmppmpm fmpmfppffppffmfmfmmfp fmpmfpmpp Mppfmfpffppfpfmmppmmmppp fmppffmmmmpmmppppmmmmpffpmp mmmpppmpm fmpmfpmmmfmp mpppff mpmfmffmm mfmmppmppppp fmmpfmpffmmmpmpmpp ppmmmmmfm mfffmm fpmmmmppp mppfpfmmfpmffmffmmmfffpmmpp pffmffmfmmfpfmp.
(apt-get install filters)
Parent
Google Translation (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the translated page [google.com]. And no, BabelFish did not produce a translation of the same quality.
Google frightens me sometimes. Almost every day now.
Parent
Re:Google Translation (Score:5, Funny)
now the European Court of Justice has ruled Wednesday that everyone must make a box that fits the original lego bit.
Well, fuck. Do I have to start right away, or is there some kind of deadline?
Parent
Re:Google Translation (Score:5, Funny)
LEGO twice the price "toys of the century" won.
Don't be frightened, Yoda wouldn't work for anyone evil.
Parent
The AWFUL truth about LEGO (Score:5, Funny)
My son had LEGO blocks, but I soon discovered that they have sharp
pointy edges, and hurt when you step on them barefooted in the dark.
Needless to say, any block I encountered in the dark disappeared. Soon
he had none. That never did teach him to pick up his toys. Grrrrr.
Parent
Re:The AWFUL truth about LEGO (Score:5, Funny)
At about midnight there was a lot of swearing, and I found out that Santa wasn't real.
Parent
Re:makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:makes sense, meh (Score:5, Funny)
You forgot the red-light districts.
Not that I've ever been there. Nope. Uh huh. Nyet. I'm just a Puritan American and have no clue what "red light" means. Yep.
Parent
Re:makes sense, meh (Score:5, Funny)
Uh, I did not know that the Dutch red light district had any competition from the Danish red light district. Unless you mean to have sex with Lego figures, that is.
Parent
Re:makes sense, meh (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah... I look at this as a mixed blessing.
I have a substantial collection of Lego, and I have a single MegaBlocks model... as much as I hate to say it, there's really a difference in quality. The Lego plastic is actually superior, and the quality of the molds must be better, too.
So while I'd like to be able to buy bulk packs of pieces (which I've done via bricklink for some years now) at cheap prices (at an average approaching $0.10 piece for a little piece of molded plastic?), I certainly wouldn't accept lower quality just to get cheaper pieces.
I'm all for competition, though. If Lego reduces prices (I know they whine they are barely making it... which is just baffling to me), then I'll be all over it. I mean, go ahead and charge $50 for a 400 piece Star Wars set... but let me buy bulk bricks to build my mega (no pun intended) structures, and I'll be a happy guy.
Sometimes on bricklink you can find pieces you like for less than a penny a piece... unfortunately, while I admit I don't look very often, I haven't seen that kind of deal in some time.
Parent
Re:makes sense, meh (Score:5, Informative)
Lego are utterly fantastic at making their bricks. They're mind-bogglingly good, in fact. To work properly, Lego bricks must be made to a tolerance of one micron, otherwise models would fall apart or the bricks be too hard to separate. Those little plastic bricks are as precisely engineered as the most precisely engineered components in the most expensive Swiss watch. They've been making them exactly the right size since the 1960s - the bricks you or you parents had in the 60s will still work perfectly with the bricks they make today.
Parent
Re:makes sense, meh (Score:5, Informative)
They've only been making them excatly right since 1980.
Parent
Re:makes sense, meh (Score:5, Insightful)
So why is it a mixed blessing? If Lego's products are better, they'll win on quality and be worth the price. Or perhaps the general public doesn't value the difference, in which case the public gets what it wants. This is capitalism working well: competition, with competitors competing on quality and price and consumers having options.
Parent
Re:makes sense, meh (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a mixed blessing because of exactly what you point out...
I think people will go for low prices, and before they realize it was a mistake, Lego will already be out of business. You'll say the customers have chosen (they have), but even most of them will realize they chose wrongly only after it was too late.
Parent
English translation (Score:5, Informative)
Re:English translation (Score:5, Insightful)
Lego is unable to retain its trademark
(or, in particular, the red, 2x4 block). So it sounds like others will be able to make compatible blocks.
Had Lego lost their trademark on the Lego name, that would have been much worse.
Parent
Re:English translation (Score:5, Insightful)
I see Lego announcing a change in which country it resides in, to one more favorable towards corporations in trademark laws. That or outsourcing few plants to China to stay competitive.
And whats with all the toy stories and polls? Is
Parent
OLS (Score:5, Insightful)
So, what Lego needs to do now is publish the OLS, or Open Lego Standard. Seriously, when it becomes obvious you're going to lose the battle, maybe it's time to embrace the alternative? Instead of fighting to keep your ideas out of the hands of others, fight to make sure that *everyone* uses your idea. It makes your assets valuable in a different way. This way, they'll still have control over the standard, and if products meet the standard, they get branded with "OLS Compliant!" and consumers know that if they buy "OLS Compliant!" parts, they'll work with their other "OLS Compliant!" parts, which makes consumers very happy, which makes the standard valuable.
-G
brand name = quality (Score:5, Insightful)
I have mixed feelings about this. I have 38 years' worth and hundreds of thousands of LEGO bricks, which cost an enormous amount, and it'd sure be nice to get vats of cheap bricks so I can build some of the things I want. (I'm halfway through making a 3-D printer using chocolate, that has a working space of about 9 cubic feet, and boy does that take a lot of blocks.)
But at the same time, companies will rush into the space formed by LEGO losing their trademark, build cheap bricks, outcompete LEGO, LEGO will go out of business, and then we'll be stuck with lots of cheap imitators who aren't making the beautiful stuff LEGO created, and that could end up destroying exactly what makes LEGO worthwhile.
There is a value to having a single entity driving a market -- a planned economy in miniature.
Re:brand name = quality (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps, but that economy was built on the quality and diversity of product, not simple market forces. It's kind of like Walmart. They have all the stuff that people normally buy, or most of it, and at cheap prices. When you want something that people don't normally buy, you have to shop somewhere else. So, yes, that drives the price up, but also creates special products.
I have concerns about imitators diluting the value of the market that Lego has built, to the point that it is no longer viable to create the special parts that Lego does create. I'm not talking about flag poles for ships or castles. Rather I'm talking more of the technic line of parts. If you want active models or robots etc. you need special parts, not just blocks. For example: to build a car Lego provides many wheels/tires/tank treads, Ackerman steerage, differential gearing, shock absorbers etc. The Lego gear-motors are awesome. Lego provides gears, axles, chains, even flex-shafts, worm-gears and housings, pneumatics, .... In fact, blocks are good, but to make really awesome geeky stuff you need all those special parts. I hope this does not mean an end to the specialty parts.
It would truly be the end of an era if those specialty parts go out of production.
Parent
Lego tried an end-run around the law (Score:5, Interesting)
Lego tried an end-run around the law.
Copyright couldn't cover their bricks.
Patents ran out eons ago.
But Trademarks, Trademarks are perpetual... so they 'Trademark' a physical object instead of a name & logo. anybody wonder why they lost?
Re:Lego tried an end-run around the law (Score:5, Funny)
oooo
oooo
Parent
I thought (Score:5, Informative)
If true, hopefully this will open doors for people interested in inexpensive bulk purchase of bricks of specific sizes and colors.
I thought you could already do that. [lego.com]
Lego didn't invent them in the first place (Score:5, Informative)
After Hilary Page commited suicide, LEGO purchased the expired patents from Page's estate so they could pretend they invented them in the first place.
LEGO did invent and patent the little tube on the bottom of the brick, which wasn't in Page's original design, which allows for more connection possibilities. Once that patent expired, other companies, such as Canada's MEGA, (creator of Mega Bloks) created clones. LEGO, of course, sued for trademark infringement. In the US, they lost, because you can't trademark and patent the same things - functional elements, which are covered by patents, can't be trademarked. Other countries treat this issue differently, hence LEGO enjoys some trademark protection even for the purely functional elements.
Apparently, LEGO's view is that a patent should be valid as long as the company holding the patent continues to manufacture the product, and tends to be pretty aggressive about it. The irony they they effectively violated the patents of the original inventor is completely lost on them.
Posting anonymously because I've had previous run-ins with LEGO's lawyers.
Translation (Score:5, Informative)
Lego loses it's unique right to make Lego blocks
Luxemburg - It'll be hard to swallow for the Danish manufacturer Lego now that the European Court of Justice has decided Wednesday that everyone can make a block that fits the original legoblock.
Lego had gone to the European Court of Justice battling against the Canadian competitor Mega Brands, who has brought a block on the market that fits Lego's. The Court ruled today that the design of Lego is not protected by European trademark and that there can be no such thing as an unique right.
The Lego block was invented in 1932 by Ole Kirk Christiansen in the Danish city Billund. The name LEGO is derived from the Danish words "LE GOdt" (play good). Later the word appeared the word could be interpreted in Latin as "I gather" (or 'I choose' or 'I read').
LEGO is a Danish toy manufacturer that became famous because of the colored plastic blocks. The blocks are sold under the name "Lego"; that way they refer not only to the manufacturer, but it also became a generic brand. The manufacturer is the biggest toy manufacturer in Europe with a revenue of 7823 billion Danish Krone ( 1049 billion Euro or 1337 billion dollars ) in 2006. Meanwhile, LEGO has won the price "Toy of the Century" twice.
The LEGO Group is the fifth biggest toy manufacturer in the world.
This story is completely wrong. (Score:5, Informative)
Lego hasn't had a monopoly on the bricks for decades. (They have a monopoly on making bricks that actually work, but that's not for legal reasons, that's just because their competitors are incompetent.)
Lego has used a red 2x4 Lego brick in advertisements, and they believed that this particular brick could be used as a trademarked "logo". The European Department of Justice decided that the brick picture is too generic to be trademarked. The decision will be appealed.
So all it means is that competitors are allowed to put that particular brick in their advertisements and on their boxes. They already had the right to produce the brick.
Lego can't compete (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is, Lego might be a household name, indeed in some countries it is a generic name for building blocks, but it is still a family-owned business. It's CEO and Chairman is a cool-looking grandson of the founder, and it resides in a rural town in Denmark called Billund, with a population of about 27,000 where nearly 90% of its manufacturing still occurs. The town is almost entirely dependent on Lego.
Lego is among the world's best employers (if not outright best). Equal opportunity in action. Employees, including the CEO, do not have reserved parking spots at the HQ's carpark, offices mostly resemble community areas rather than walled rooms, free food and drinks are all over the place, not to mention some of the best sporting and health facilities provided to employees. Blue collar workers receive the same treatment, for most things from gym membership to access to the health clinic, there is no difference between the executives and simple manufacturing employee. People don't wear name tags, they nearly always wear casual, unless they have a meeting with an outside party.
Lego has Idea Labs where people just experiment with new toys. It employs scientist, from chemists to child psychologists just to carry out all sorts of experiments. It is such a fun place, you'd be forgiven if you thought you where in Wonderland. It has a museum full of toys that it invented but failed to manufacture, mostly due to safety concerns. I can understand why some of them might have been thought of as dangerous, but boy are they cool!
Of course, with all the above, with the cost of employing and manufacturing in Europe, it can't compete with the cheapest-of-the-cheap Chinese factory which just mass produces plastic blocks. I understand that in this case, IP laws do not really cover its business, and anyone is legally able to copy them, but IMO it's rather sad to see that such companies can't really exist in this world, that consumers don't value the history and the culture of a company. They just look at a price tag and make their decision solely based on that.
Everyone I met at Lego is aware of these issues. They have carried massive restructuring plans since 2005, but they know they can't compete against most rivals whose costs are simply lower; yet they really want to preserve the unique culture that has made Lego, Lego for the past generations. Short of outsourcing manufacturing to some place in China, closing its museum and laboratory and airport and with it the town and becoming just another plastic manufacturer, I can't think of a way for them to survive. As I said, it's rather sad.
Re:Cheap = Good for parents (Score:5, Informative)
We bought some Mega Bloks for our son, but the plastic they used (polypropylene?) is too soft to keep a good grip. Duplos are made out of ABS plastic that holds its shape much better, so the blocks stay locked and structures stay together. We can't even build a simple staircase out of Mega Bloks without frustration. Constructions have to have twice as many Mega Bloks as Duplos to have the same strength.
While though the Mega Bloks are cheaper, we'll probably stick to Duplo and Lego for the future.
Parent
Re:Cheap = Good for parents (Score:5, Informative)
I agree. Mega blocks are crap.
We picked up a huge bin at a garage sale last summer. Most of it was Lego, but there was just enough Mega Blocks to frustrate you. They don't fit right, they don't hold very good, and the colours suck.
I am a big fan of competition. Hopefully this drives down the price of real legos.
If they lost the trademark though, Mega Blocks can start marketing their product as lego. That would suck.
Parent
Re: MS Blocks! (Score:5, Funny)
Following their pattern of Wait & BadlyCopy, Microsoft will announce the need for the strategic purchase of Mega so they can Embrace the Blocks, Extend, and Extinguish Lego!
Parent
Re:Cheap = Good for parents (Score:5, Informative)
We picked up a huge bin at a garage sale last summer. "
Older Mega blocks are crap. Mega Blocks produced in recent years are just as mechanically good as Lego, and after this decision might start looking as good too.
Lego has had various varieties of legal protections on their blocks in various countries. They had some patents on elements of their production process that prevented others from making good blocks cheap; hence the crappy Mega Blocks. Those patents expired a while ago, so MegaBlocks became good.
Lego still had a trademarks in various countries on the look of the iconic red brick. Hence the different colour scheme you don't like. That trademark is now gone, so expect Mega Blocks to start looking nice.
Lego still has, and presumably always will have, a trademark on the name "Lego". So they'll continue to benefit from their (well deserved) reputation for quality, and charge more for their bricks. But MegaBlocks might, now, be just as good.
Parent
Re:Cheap = Good for parents (Score:5, Interesting)
Older Mega blocks are crap. Mega Blocks produced in recent years are just as mechanically good as Lego, and after this decision might start looking as good too.
We bought our Mega Bloks new two years ago. Unless they changed their materials very recently, I think they are still pretty bad.
Parent
Re:Cheap = Good for parents (Score:5, Insightful)
I got a huge Mega Blocks tyrannosaurus set one year for Christmas.
I never managed to assemble it--not for lack of trying, but because the blocks weren't capable of supporting the structure. Legos would have done it, no problem, but the Mega Blocks invariably came apart around 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through. Any more, and they'd fall apart under the weight. My parents even tried glueing some parts when they saw how much it sucked, but that didn't help; it would just break in different places.
No grip. Can't build anything big with them. Certainly can't move even mid-sized things constructed from them, let alone play with your constructions. LAME.
Parent
Re:Cheap = Good for parents (Score:5, Interesting)
My parents always bought me real Lego bricks, and I have practically all of those bricks/sets 30+ years on. They still click and snap like new. Good luck getting that kind of lifespan from the cheap knock-offs.
Quality costs money, pure and simple. So, no, the choice isn't "obvious" at all.
Parent
Good for your wallet, but poor quality (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I hated megablocks, because the bricks are not made with the same quality as Legos. Legos have a very exacting standard they make for each brick, to guarentee they fit together and stay together when you want to, and come apart when you need them to. Megablocks I found are looser, and don't stay together as often. I'm anal. I played with Legos when I was young, but when I grew up, my son and I put together some megablocks sets he got from someone else. The comparative quality was very poor.
However, in terms of business, a competition between Megablocks and Legos is a good thing. Legos wants (I hope) to be a higher quality toy, while Megablocks is for those who are less anal and more frugal. They have carved out their own niches and provide choice for the consumer. Additional players in the market should help.
At the same time, I hope someone tackles with the idea that lego sets are too specialized now. There are so many specialty pieces that it limits the amount you can create with a single set, and limits the replay value. Back in the 80s, there were tons of new pieces that weren't all just bricks, but those pieces could still be creatively used to build new models from your imagination. The odd shaped clear plastic panel that curls around the model just so and only has one real use is annoying.
Parent
Re:ISO Standard (Score:5, Informative)
It's actually damn hard to make the bricks. Lego found this out when they outsourced production a few years ago. It turned out to be a bad deal both for Flextronics and Lego, so now the factories are all back under direct Lego management.
Parent
Re:ISO Standard (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to do QA for Flextronics, so it's no surprise to me that it didn't end well. The majority of their workforce gets brought in from headhunter temp services like Manpower, told they'll be offered a permanent position when their temp contract runs out, and then let go right beforehand. The result is a never ending stream of untrained employees trying to adapt to a new position. The line i was testing (pill dispenser machines for walgreens pharmacies) had so many problems it was a miracle we shipped any machines at all.
On a slightly related note, those pill machines seemed rather unsafe to me. They had a robotic arm such the pills out of a hopper through a plastic tube and shoot them into a waiting pill bottle. While it sounds like a nice idea in principle, the longer i worked there the more i thought about how real pills wouldnt be as resistant to breaking up or just rubbing in the tube and leaving drug residue all on the insides as the plastic fake pills we tested with. The risk for harmful interactions from contamination made me resolve to never get my prescriptions filled at walgreens anymore.
Parent
Chinese Legos (Score:5, Funny)
Made for children, by children.
Parent
Re:This isn't ALL good (Score:5, Funny)
I was a lego boy when I grew up. I had a lot of legos.
And then... what? Your fairy godmother made you a real boy?
Parent
Re:Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
Fixed it:
All your baseplates are belong to us
Parent
Re:End of legoes (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a huge blow to Lego, but it shouldn't be deadly by any stretch of the imagination.
Parent