Microsoft Acknowledges NBC's Wish is Its Command

theodp writes "Responding to questions about why some users of Windows Vista Media Center were prevented from recording the NBC Universal TV shows 'American Gladiator' and 'Medium,' Microsoft has acknowledged that Windows Media Centers will block users from recording TV shows at the request of a broadcaster. 'Microsoft included technologies in Windows based on rules set forth by the (Federal Communications Commission),' wrote a Microsoft spokeswoman, apparently referring to an FCC proposal that the courts struck down in 2005. 'Microsoft has put the requirements of broadcasters above what consumers want,' said the EFF's Danny O'Brien. 'They've imposed restrictions way beyond what the law requires. Customers need to know who Microsoft is listening to and how that affects their equipment. Right now, the only way customers know what Microsoft has agreed to is when the technology they've bought suddenly stops working. Microsoft needs to come clean and tell its customers what deals it has made.'"

I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

Last I checked... Tivo supports the broadcast flag as well, yet those of us (I have 2) with Tivo's had no issues... So I guess the question is, why is Tivo ignoring the broadcast flag (not that I am complaining mind you, I hate the broadcast flag), but I am curious..

I wonder why...

...you tried to record American Gladiators.

Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

They remembered who their customers were perhaps?

With Tivo TV is no longer real-time.

Has anyone using Tivo ever been able to go back to regular TV? If they took a look at the viewing habits of Tivo-ed users, they would be forced to remove the flag if Tivo had enforced it.

Ever since I got Tivo, I *never* watch programs in real-time. If I can't record it, I am not watching it.

Re:With Tivo TV is no longer real-time.

If I can't record it, I am not watching it.

I tried using that argument at the cinema, but they threw me out :(

Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

From what I remember the way Tivo series 2 works with the broadcast flag is that it will record it but you can't use Tivo2go to transfer the recording to your computer.

You can watch it on the Tivo all you want but that is all you can do with it. If you look at the information about a program recorded with the broadcast flag it should tell you that.

I believe I recorded a show with a broadcast flag a long time ago and it said that. Guess I'll have to record one of these shows just to double check.

Not sure what the Tivo series 3 and Tivo HD do with it. Should be the same.

Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

"They've imposed restrictions way beyond what the law requires." -- Wrong and ignorant.

Microsoft has to program for more then one country you know. There is a wide range a laws and regulations that end up going into the media center programming - and yes, some of the programming will bleed over into the American version.

In Canada we see shows being blocked from recording using that flag all the time. Yes, its ok for a broadcaster here to stop us from recording a program.

I'm not saying i agree with it, but it's not as if Microsoft was screwing around with Americans just because they wanted to be a jerk.

I would put more blame on the broadcaster for playing around with the flag when they shouldn't.

In the meantime... Microsoft should release a patch that stops the DRM for those in America. It won't happen, but hey.

defective by design...

shows just who the real "customer" here is... not you... you are the product, delivered to the media conglomerates...

Re:defective by design...

That's old news.

Douglas Adams is often quoted with something along this line:

"Most TV stations are in the business to deliver customers to advertisers. The BBC is in the business to deliver TV programmes to people."

Great News!

This is great news. Look, Microsoft has a vendor first / user second approach. The more stupid shit like this they do the more the users will catch on that they are simply taken for granted.

Re:Great News!

Don't be an ass. The best outcome would be Microsoft taking great care of its customers, so that millions of people aren't hassled and inconvenienced.

It's a pathetic second best to have lots of people getting shafted, just so a company can be "punished".

The end goal is great technology and happy people. How we get there is much less important. Don't put politics before the people we're supposedly trying to help.

Re:Great News!

This is great news. Look, Microsoft has a vendor first / user second approach.

..and so does every other company that uses DRM.

"Technologies"

Microsoft included technologies in Windows based on...

What is it with Microsoft and the word "technologies"?

Heeding a fucking bit is "technologies"?

[Clicks fingers] Oh, sorry, that's marketdoublespeak to hide the fact that they're selling stuff that takes its orders from someone other than the customer who bought it.

Microsoft has been screwing us over for years

Microsoft has never been about the customer. Microsoft will gladly screw over their customers to get a few bucks or gain marketshare.

Here's an old but great example. Back when Win95 was released you could not natively use long file names with 16-bit apps. However, there was a product called "Name-It!" which did allow that function. In other words it was possible and quite easy to enable the function, but Microsoft chose NOT to implement it. Why? Because long file names was a well liked feature among customers and denying it to customers would give incentive to upgrade to new 32-bit programs.

Another great example is Messenger, the chat program not the service. Microsoft originally made it nearly impossible to get rid of. Even if you edited your sysoc.inf file and uninstalled Messenger, it'll suddenly come back. Even if you deleted the subfolder under Program Files, it would mysteriously come back. Obviously Microsoft considered its chat war against AOL more important than ease of use for its customers.

And of course there's product activation. We were told it was to stop piracy, but that was bull-shit. You can easy obtain pirated copies of XP and Vista. Let's face it, if piracy has been decreased, then why is Vista Microsoft's most expensive OS? Why aren't they passing the savings back to us? Clearly product activation is not stopping piracy at all. Once again, the real purpose of product activation is to screw over the paying customer who wants to install the OS he paid for on both of his systems.

And lets not forget how Microsoft's Office products are constantly screwing with file formats to make the later versions incompatible with earlier versions. Once again, this is NOT done to make it easier for paying customers. It's merely leverage to get those customer paying again and again.

It'd be really hard to be passionate for Microsoft's products. It's hard to be passionate for anything that nickel and dimes you at every turn. That treats you like a criminal. And sees you merely as a cash cow to be milked at every chance.

Remote controlled PR-disaster

Sooo, it seems Microsoft has set itself up for a PR disaster and given the remote control to any content-provider that knows how to use the broadcast flags.

There is no better way to illustrate what restrictions DRM will have on the users day-to-day life, and Vista users will not like these demonstrations of Microsofts built-in Big Brother TM.

Basking in the love...

Is this the place where those of us who loathe Vista as a bloated, DRM-ridden piece of crap that just can't wait to rat on its owners come for an apology from all those people who accused us of spreading FUD about it?

Just wondering...

NBC should drop the broadcast flag....or perish

Let's see, how many different competing sources of videos are there today? And NBC thinks it's got the best ones out there and wants to restrict their dissemination with the broadcast flag?

I don't really care if Vista respects the flag or not. NBC, by putting it in the stream, thwarts its use, legitimate or not. In the YouTube/Tube world, they have *so* scratched themselves off the list.

Let's see-- was that good for marketshare, branding, asset value, shareholder value, or compennsation? Hullo?

My VCR Still Works

As long as there is analog out, I'll be able to record my favorite shows. Just retarded you have to go through all that.

Is it really any surprise MSFT puts business interests ahead of user interests? It's been that way a long time.

Re:Nothing to see here

I don't think so. People are not so apathetic as you seem to think. They will take notice as soon as it impacts on their ability and their freedom to do things they have been able to do since they bought their first VCR recorder 25 years ago.

Microsoft has been putting too much faith into its monopoly position. The more people this affects, the more people WILL move to alternative systems, and the more those alternative systems will improve.

DRM will never survive.

Indeed...

VCR recorder, is that like an ATM machine? ;)

Indeed, it is. However, unlike an ATM machine, you don't need a PIN number for a VCR recorder.

Re:Nothing to see here

Actually, Mythtv is pretty easy to set up now, if you use one of the distro versions (knoppmyth, mythdora or mythbuntu).
I add a nice pchdtv video card, which does not detect the broadcast flag, and I have nothing to worry about. Plus, I can burn dvd's of my recordings, and many other things.

Windows media center has a number of problems, and crashes too. However, because it is windows, people ignore it. Myth is just as stable. And can be tested before buying (since mythbuntu at least has a livecd)

Re:Damned either way

and in the future, will not give them anymore money

Bullshit.

The majority of the proles will bitch and complain, but they will still come home to Daddy - in this case, Microsoft - when it comes time to upgrade.

The handful of people with enough brains to see this sort of shit coming aren't suffering.

Re:Power To the Corporates!

pay-per-view on every single broadcast

I sure hope they leave the commercials in!

Re:Reminds me of ...

It would help the argument a lot if people would stop posting the link to Peter Gutman's first paper. He already has acknowledged that some facts were based on pre-release versions of Vista, and Microsoft trial-balloons.

The newer slideshow [cypherpunks.to] addresses much the same issues, without the minor holes the MS astroturfers can use to misdirect attention away from the main points.

Mart

Re:How fast will a hack appear for this ?

In fact I would be surprised that the hack is already out there

It is, the fix is here [ubuntu.com].