Cory Doctorow Releases 'Eastern Standard Tribe' 199
OrenWolf writes "Cory Doctorow (of EFF and Boing Boing fame), has released his second novel, Eastern Standard Tribe today.. it should be showing up in bookstores shortly.
As with his earlier work, Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom, Cory has made the whole text of the novel available as a free download "in a variety of open, standards-defined formats, under the terms of a Creative Commons license."
Cory also has a writeup "explaining why I've done it: in a nutshell, this worked really well for my first book, and I'd be crazy not to repeat the experiment with my second novel.""
hear that? (Score:4, Funny)
Entertaining stuff. (Score:2)
Interesting Business Model too... (Score:5, Interesting)
[shameless plug]The book is for sale at frankduff.com [frankduff.com][/shameless plug]
I am currently wrestling with the idea of releasing the full e-text. I intend to do so eventually, but am worried that if I do so in conjunction with the print release it might seriously affect sales, particularly since the website is one of my main retail points and the novel is short enough to reasonably read on a screen.
Re:Interesting Business Model too... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Interesting Business Model too... (Score:3)
Of course, I also have an ideological affection for the Creative Commons and would even be willing to take a loss of a couple of copies on the
Re:Interesting Business Model too... (Score:2)
You also have to factor in the number of people who wouldn't have bought it, but read it for free and like it so much they end up buying it
Re:Interesting Business Model too... (Score:2)
That said, I enjoyed Down & Out, and will give this a try...
Re:Interesting Business Model too... (Score:2)
News? (Score:4, Insightful)
Is this all it requires to get
Re:News? (Score:2)
Re:News? (Score:1)
Is this all it requires to get /. to advertise a product? Release it under the Creative Commons?
you must be new here, right?Re:News? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:News? (Score:2)
Re:News? (Score:2)
Re:News? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it's from an author who, for the second time, is releasing his book under a "some rights reserved" license, for free, and this hasn't hurt past book sales.
Because it's a statement that DRM is *not* required in book sales.
And because it strikes at the heart of so many things
Re:News? (Score:3, Interesting)
Since both of his books have been released using this method, the above is unprovable. His sales may have been considerably better had he not released it online too.
Re:News? (Score:2)
I think it's fantastic of Mr. Ellliott/Doctorow to be willing to try this experiment, especially considering that his publisher is Tor (they've been pretty decent with him about this, from what I read at his site).
The upshot is that web publishing is going to eventually stomp pa
Re:News? (Score:5, Funny)
No, you also need to have sufficient wuffie.
Re:News? (Score:2)
All it requires to get
Who's to say... (Score:4, Insightful)
As he points out, he doesn't have a first novel released in a non-e format to compare against. How would you go about deciding the correlation? Maybe if he included a coupon for the paper copy in the e format version?
-Trick
Re:Who's to say... (Score:3, Insightful)
As it should be.
Re:Who's to say... (Score:2)
-Trick
Re:Who's to say... (Score:2)
This isn't about the publisher, but the author.
From the forward to EST... (Score:2, Interesting)
"I don't know what the future of book looks like. To figure it out, I'm doing some pretty basic science. I'm peering into this opaque, inscrutable system of publishing as it sits in the year 2004, and I'
Re:Who's to say... (Score:3, Interesting)
He can't. But he can compare the financial success of his novel to that of other, not publically available, works of the same genre, and if he finds that his did fairly well (which the first book apparently did), this could be taken as an indication that publishing a book online, under a liberal license even and without DRM, at least doesn't hurt dead-tree-version sales that much. Or that he is
Re:Who's to say... (Score:2)
The author is.
That's the whole point of copyright, intellectual property, etc: it's up to the creator. He doesn't have to apply the scientific method to validate the approach if he doesn't care to. If he wants to apply a highly subjective "It sold OK and I made enough money to satisfy me" test to the experiment, that's his call.
Re:Who's to say... (Score:2)
Re:Who's to say... (Score:2)
quote from his website:
"and even though the print-run (which sold out very quickly!) though generous by science fiction standards, hardly qualifies it as a work of mass entertainment.
The thing that's extraordinary about that first novel is that it was released under terms governed by a Creative Commons license that allowed my readers to copy the book freely and distribute it far and wide. Hundreds of thousands of copies of the book were made and distributed this way. Hundreds of thous
of Boing Boing fame? (Score:1, Funny)
Wow !!!! (Score:2, Interesting)
F$%# (Score:4, Funny)
I was reading the book!
Now the server's slashdotted!
Damnit
I want print books .... (Score:1)
Test drive... (Score:2)
That's what I did when "Down and Out..." was put online, and the print copy was well worth the cost and effort in spite of the text being available online.
(Screw the publishers, let the authors promote their own shit, and let the public decide what will succeed. Same goes for music, fuck the RIAA.)
Re:Test drive... the flip side (Score:2)
I wonder how many people might have bought this alleged novel but didn't because they didn't like what they read in the free version?
Re:I want print books .... (Score:2)
An electronic edition's only advantage (imho) is that I can read at the office and, unless someone comes over to look over my shoulder, nobody finds out.
Re:I want print books .... (Score:2, Funny)
Cory Doctorow (Score:4, Funny)
Next time (Score:3, Funny)
I will suggest the next big worm writer to include it as a payload
*ducks*
Mmmm logical thought (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, in my opinion its harder to concentrate reading off the screen that it is from a nice high quality 'physical artifact.'
Re:Mmmm logical thought (Score:2)
Yep. I did the same thing with Bruce Eckel's Thinking in Java.
Downloaded [mindview.net] it, read it, loved it, bought it to support the author.
Re:Logical thought, yeh right... (Score:2)
So is checking books out from the library.
Back before the internet, I sampled most books this way. I still own most of the ones I liked.
Because I *could* sample them first, I didn't buy the ones I didn't like, and had more money to spend on books I *did like*.
So what was your point again?
SB
Good (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't believe that there's any market-demand for teasers or for "Digital Rights Management" technology: [...] so I'm giving this novel to you in three open and flexible formats"
If you want to, go ahead and buy a copy and I'll get my royalty. But there's no obligation on you to buy it if you've read -- you're not ripping me off -- [...] I'm not in competition with my publisher here.
Good to see that there are a few authors and publishers out there that knows that giving away free downloads do not hurt sales -- if the book is good it will most likely sell more. (see Baen Free Library [baen.com]).
As for Doctorow, I enjoyed Down and Out, so I'll surely give this a try.
Hey, can somebody re-post his write-up? (Score:1, Funny)
Like CD's/MP3's, or like diamonds (Score:4, Insightful)
If you could somehow get free diamonds, I doubt many of us would throw them away or buy them instead, (unless you're Dutch [ananova.com])
but with digital "objects" it's a bit more difficult to quantify. Copying is easy, delivery is easy. The sole advantage for the pay-for dead-tree-version is that you can cart it around with you - but with the advent of ever-more-clever phones, PDA's etc., will this advantage disappear, and with it, the open-source book ?
Interesting to see how it pans out...
Simon
Re:Like CD's/MP3's, or like diamonds (Score:4, Interesting)
that said, I read the latest harry potter last summer from the screen of a nokia 3650. and yes it was more convinient than the dead tree version(which of I have access to as well so it didn't really hurt any sales either), the paper version is unnecessary thick, so thick that it's not comfortable to read or carry around in travel luggage(in trains, busses& etc that I sat in a bit during the summer). that and the fact that the text would fit in a book that had half the pages if it was in different font, but it seems like it's thick for marketing purposes(and to justify greater price I suppose).
I also read a bunch of other books with it.. it was really handy since I whenever I had just a slight pause in what I was doing or was just having idle chatter with somebody I could just keep reading.
Re:Like CD's/MP3's, or like diamonds (Score:2)
Re:Like CD's/MP3's, or like diamonds (Score:2)
Sure, it's not the technical definition, but if I was dependent on sales of my works for income (and I'm not saying anyone else is or would be) I'd feel pretty strongly about someone "stealing" my works.
Simon.
Other sources of good books (Score:5, Informative)
Also Baen have their Webscriptions service. For US$10 or US$15, you can purchase a month's worth of books (5 to 6 books) for reading, downloading, whatever, or you can buy individual books for about US$5. Again, all in open formats (html, etc). There is no obligation to buy more at any time but I've found there is usually enough of interest that I've bought near on 30 months worth of subscriptions over time :)
Re:Other sources of good books (Score:2)
Breakout Authors (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think this is going to adversely affect the publishing industry much in the long run at all. If anything, it will keep it alive and help it to be more effective.
Here's an idea that works out for everybody:
Author Bob writes a book and puts it online. 100,000 people read it. Now they know who he is. A publisher looks at Bob's online work and sees that a lot of people read it. he doesn't have to advertise the guy now - people already know who he is. It takes the guesswork out. Now Bob gets contracted, sells his work instead of giving it away. Bob gets paid.
After a year or 6 months or something, bob releases the book online for free.
In the end, everybody wins. Bob gets paid, the publisher gets paid and saves on advertising and research, and the people can either buy the book or wait an uncomfortable period of time and get it free. most people would probably buy it.
Just an idea.
Re:Breakout Authors (Score:3)
Hang out over at boingboing.net (Cory's blog) for a little while. I don't see him going hungry. If it failed for him the first time there would be no second time.
How it actually works (Score:3, Informative)
Upshot? A review on slashdot [slashdot.org] was my biggest promotional score, and total readership appears to be about 10,000 worldwide. Tip jar revenue ended up a bit over $1,000. And despite many mails and posts telling me it was a very good novel, I still can't attract a publisher.
It just isn't as eas
Prime Intellect (Score:3, Interesting)
And yet... I read it. The whole thing, cover-to-cover (well, virtual cover, anyway). The idea and implementation were compelling, and as you backed off over the second half and began to deal more with ramifications of a death-obsessed (well, virtual death-obsessed) society, I began to enjoy it more, and realized the graphic violence towards the start was necessary.
I ended up walking away after reading it, thinki
Re:How it actually works (Score:2)
Certainly, you had 10,000 readers, but you had 10,000 readers who had already read the book.
I can't help but think that, were you to write a second novel, the existence of MOPI would certainly help your publishing chances.
After k5 published Enn-Eye [kuro5hin.org], I shopped a lengthened and edited version around to a few magazines. I was ve
Re:Breakout Authors (Score:3, Interesting)
Creative Commons (Score:5, Insightful)
Must mean it works for him.
LS
Thank you Cory (Score:1, Interesting)
Curious to know (Score:5, Interesting)
I just downloaded both, and plan to give them a read on Mr. Palm Pilot and if I like them, I'll probably buy Meatspace versions for family on holidays, but I'd be fascinated to see what the "download-to-purchase" ratio is.
It's the same kind of model we see in places like Megatokyo, Penny-Arcade, etc - free content with physical goods (books, T-shirts, posters, etc) being the actual income. Makes you wonder if Doctorow's endeavors are as successful, and if he should sell a T-shirt.
Re:Curious to know (Score:2)
Re:Curious to know (Score:2)
A better question would be, how much does any author make? out of the tens-of-thousands of authors, where would Mr. Doctorow compare to them? Obviously he's not going to make $millions, but who really does? How many traditional authors need a "real job?"
Re:Curious to know (Score:2)
Now that's a T-shirt I would like.
-Colin [colingregorypalmer.net]
Win Awards (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe awards voters should take into consideration how much an author does to make his work freely available.
Um (Score:3, Funny)
I'd be happy if award voters anywhere in the media world took the quality of a work into consideration.
priorities (Score:2)
Wonderful. Not one post scored >= 3 actually talks about the content of the book.
Is the book worth reading? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hasn't that story (future w/ immortal people who can do pretty much anything and are pretty much totally out-of-touch w/ the past) already been told in Roger Zelazny's _Elegy for Angels and Dogs_ (and reprised in Walter Jon Williams' sequel _The Graveyard Heart_)? (the twain were published as a Tor Double, but not in the way cool upside down / double book format since one was a sequel of the other).
I read through the first few pages of the other story, but just not finding much of interest there either.
Anyone want to reassure me that they're worth the effort to read, or warn me away from wasting any further time / effort?
William
Re:Is the book worth reading? (Score:2)
I don't have anything against people offering their writing freely, but the one thing people have to always invest when reading a book is a measure of their time.
TYPO in the cover (Score:2, Informative)
Eastern Standard Tribe
by the uthor of Down and out the Magic Kingdom
Nevertheless, I enjoyed his 1st book.
Re:TYPO in the cover (Score:2, Funny)
Chalk up one lost sale (Score:2, Informative)
Right in one of the first paragraphs:
In the great slashdot tradition of getting fanatic about minor points, I outright refuse to buy a book that uses this stupid, just-plain-wrong pseudo-plural of virus! The proprietary, non-free license doesn't even allow me to release a fixed version of it!
Re: Chalk up one lost sale (Score:2)
Re:Chalk up one lost sale (Score:3, Interesting)
No, I don't. The latin word "virus" has no plural. And if it had, it would not be "virii".
To be honest, I do consider "virii" a "real" word. It is an irregular plural form of the english word "virus". It just is not justified by latin language rules, but then again, it doesn't have to. I just pity the etymologists that wonder about the origins of this form in a few centuries - somehow I doubt that they will consider slashdot trolls
Learning from your mistakes (Score:3, Funny)
Actually, Cory, you'd be crazy to think the Slashdot Effect would skip you this time over. We never did before...
Basically, unless you write a book about "Ancient Roman Carpet Installation Techniques", we're gonna take you down. And even then, if you put it under the Creative Commons license.....
Internet: Make me famous, too! (Score:2)
Re:Internet: Make me famous, too! (Score:2)
This is not necessarily a good thing (Score:3, Interesting)
Now that the rah rah posts have run their course (open source! sharing! vive la revolution!) let me provide my point of view as a reader.
I would rather pay for a book (or check it out from a library) than download it for free.
I am happy to pay money for a book because I get a book. Along with the book comes the convenience of reading in bed, on the couch, on the train...pretty much anywhere there is light. Sure, an ebook reader would give me that (more if it's backlit, less if you read at the beach) but then there's the satisfaction of holding a book, flipping through the pages, smelling that new (or old) book smell. The physical book adds value to the text and is worth paying for.
Would authors sell more books if they gave away their first few books for free? Who can know? A lot of dot com companies tried to give away services in the hopes of converting free users into paying users, but I don't know if the same model applies.
So what's it about? (Score:2)
Any relation (Score:2)
this will be a test (Score:2)
Sivaram Velauthapillai
In other similar news (Score:2)
The ideal model (Score:2)
The public knows that creators have to eat, and so they know that if they like the work that a particular creator puts out, they should donate to that creator in order to encourage him, her, or them to continue producing things they like. If the creator doesn't receive enough donations
Re:what about (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:what about (Score:2)
Re:what about (Score:1)
But it was apparently created in Microsoft Word running in Mac OS X.
The typesetting is also rather pedestrian... probably wouldn't be all that pleasant to read (and awkward to print since it's two up on a landscape letter-sized page)
Should be straightforward enough to take the
William
Re:what about Quit Complaining!! (Score:2)
The typesetting is also rather pedestrian...
Instead of complaining, why don't you take him up on his offer to provide additional (better) formatting. Then we all benefit!
Re:LaTeX fucking sucks (Score:2, Informative)
Re:LaTeX fucking sucks (Score:2, Informative)
pdflatex -- Processes LaTeX source into a pdf file. Neither slow nor painful :)
Why do publisher's job? (Score:1)
Actually, I do that as well and I don't see any problem with it.
In fact, I am rather surprised to see how far some people are willing to go in order to produce a manuscript in the publisher's format.
Isn't that supposed to be one of the few remaining publisher's duties? After all, most publishers require that you sign your copyright over to them and, for certain prestigious journals like Phys.Rev.Lett., you even have to pay to get your study published.
PDF is open (Score:5, Informative)
There are several Free readers, such as GView, gv, xpdf, and so on. YES, even on Windows a Free reader is available (it's an add-on to GhostScript, find it yourself)
Complaining about PDF because of Acrobat is like complaining about HTML because of MSIE.
Re:PDF is open -- Error 42 (Score:3, Funny)
Error 42: Missing Question
Re:PDF is open (Score:2)
Re:PDF is open (Score:2)
I will admit that I haven't heard of a Free app that will allow editing once it's in PDF form.
Re:PDF is open (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, there are also some third party writers of various quality that are not so free (especially under windows). It's also good to note that under OSX, "printing" to pdf is a standard feature.
Re:PDF is open (Score:2)
Re:Love the author's work, but... (Score:2)
You can download PDF format specs [adobe.com] from Adobe's web site at no charge. You've got all the info you need to write your own PDF viewer. Hell, there are utilities such as pdf2ps that you can use to view PDF files in GhostView and such.
There's also PDF viewers for about everything that's capable of viewing them--PDAs, Windows/Mac, Linux, most flavors of UNIX.
Nathan
OpenOffice (Score:2)
Re:Love the author's work, but... But NOT (Score:2)
Uh, because there are multiple encoders for it including free ones, and because there are multiple readers across many platforms for it, including free ones maybe.
Re:Love the author's work, but... (Score:2)
Install ghostscript and gsview (google the terms for links). gsview does require registration, but it is GNU s/w and even without registration you can use it fully, barring an annoying reminder which pops up every time you start it.
Re:enough (Score:2)
Re:enough (Score:2, Interesting)
You can specifically turn off stories from editors that piss you off. Katz was the first to go, followed closely by chrisd.
I wonder if you can block stories based on the appearance of specific strings in the titles. I, for one, would love to see a front page without stories whose titles contain the words "Groklaw", "SCO", "Microsoft" or "mp3 player."
Re:enough (Score:2)