Linux PVRs Highlighted

foolinator writes "Yahoo News is featuring an article highlighting TiVO alternatives. This includes MythTV (my favorite), Freevo, and even sites on how to start as a newbie. All of us who subscribe to the mailing lists be prepared to help out the newbies as Linux PVRs become more mainstream."

Re:Does this really apply?

[garcia]

Tivo is a service. It occurs to me that trying to use one of these alternatives will work great until the automated TV listing parser stops working due to a moved web page or some other problem.

I am more trusting of a freely available software package rather than a service. What happens if Tivo goes bankrupt or ups the price or whatever?

If a website changes and code needs to be fixed the people running the software will do so and get the changes down to the endusers quickly.

Even if it doesn't work anymore at least I wouldn't be losing money like I would if Tivo died.

HDTV will kill Homebrew PVRs...

[HoxBox]

These projects are nice but it looks like homebrew PVRs won't be able to do encoded HDTV signals for a long while. It is really doubtful that DirectTV or Time Warner will release their secret encoding. They will most likely want you to buy HDTV Tivo or the TW equivalent (which is out for selected markets already).

But I don't watch TV...

[howman]

This is all fine and dandy as a recording medium goes, but I would like to see the technology put to some other uses, like recording my incomming e-mail messages direct to memory stick while skipping the spam.
For my mom, who works a couple days a week, the ability to record her soap programs, sans interuptions, while she is at work is great. I just find that if you record a 1 hr show without commercials, you get about 40 min of video on average. You spend 40 min watching this and recording another 30 min program, aprox. 22 min of real show. You record another show shile watching your 22 min show and so on... It is like constantly halving a distance... you seem to get somewhere in the beginning but you never reach the end.

myhtpc

[Anonymouse Cownerd]

Though not Linux-based, myHTPC totally rocks.

Re:Does this really apply?

[Allen Zadr]

Uh, again - me, sure. My mother, no way in hell would she do that. Hell, my wife is really computer savvy, but that's far to much of a pain in the ass for her as well.

Also, I remember the last company [redhat.com] to say they would keep a product free, just fill out this form.

It's a subscription at a different price. Time vs. Money.

Re:Advert skipping

[Anonymous Coward]

If nothing else, you can probably tell by checking audio levels. During commercials, it will almost always be at the maximum with little variation.

But it seems MythTV [mythtv.org] does record the adverts, though it can automatically delete them afterwards.

Re:Does this really apply?

[Allen Zadr]

So, why turn my back on cheaper hardware (TiVo), for a slightly lower subscription service (Any of the alternatives) just to use a fully Open product (TiVo runs on Linux, too).

To me, if TiVo's the best, and still cheaper (at least for the first couple of years of use), why use homebrew except for bragging rights?

Re:Don't forget pcHDTV

[MayonakaHa]

Because the more companies that focus more on Linux and OSS systems than they do on Windows systems, the more people will be attracted.

I know you'll probably say that the market for Linux devices is tiny.. and I'll agree with you on that, however, it's growing incrementally every day as more and more people are introduced to it in a friendly way. Working in electronics retail I've come upon many people who want to try Linux but are afraid of it because of horror stories, or someone closeby tries to scare them away by saying "oh it can't do that, I tried it and it was crap". I always get a smile from the look on their face when I say "it can do it now and it's been able to for a few years now. When was the last time you looked at Linux?"

Re:Does this really apply?

[stanbrown]

I have a high level of concern over this issue, also. I would be happy to pay a reasonable cost (say 50% of the TIVO fee?) for a reliable long term non changing source of listings. I'm suspicous of this whole "Direct" Zap2It thing. They want to issue you a "certificate", and then require you to fill out a survey. And for all this you get about 3 months of service. I suspect that their bussiness model will not work any better (if they have one) than so many of the dotcom models. Someone pleas convince me I'm wrong.

Be Prepared to help the newbies...

[Anonymous Coward]

Big Deal? Why is this constantly brought up? I'm not trolling, but honestly, that's a little snide comment.

Listen, i'm all for open source, free as in beer, yadda yadda, but please, for the love of god, realize that EVERYONE IS A NEWBIE ONCE. I'm sure Joe SysAdmin Linux user would be more than happy to flex their geek muscle and help people. But doing it in a condescending way is absolutely NOT going to help spread any sort of information, besides what monumental jerks people can be.

What a better way to piss off your user base by calling them newbies and basically insulting their intelligence from the get go. I can already tell the general tone of these mailing lists, even before I join.

Re:Does this really apply?

[enrico_suave]

"To me, if TiVo's the best, and still cheaper (at least for the first couple of years of use), why use homebrew except for bragging rights?"

well, as I've stated on many occasions... building your own PVR isn't for everybody. It helps if you like to tinker with PCs/software/etc... not everyone likes to DIY but I do =) [randomdrivel.com]

that said, I love my Tivo.. but it isn't everything. I kinda wish I got a replayTV as Tivo's home media options (which you pay more to network your Tivo to your PC, sorta) is a joke.

A tivo with lifetime subscription is 110 (after rebate 40 hours) + 300... 410

I'd much rather pay that in hardware/toys to play with (you do know you are on slashdot, right? =)) and then some to have MORE functionality (like weather modules, RSS feeds, MAME, mp3's, divx, and so on....)...

*shrug* again DIY PVr is not for everyone, but it's not a meritless endeavor. And yes, you may end up spending more, especially if you want it small/sexy looking, than you'd ever pay for a Tivo+subscription...

I must say in the short time I've been running the site, the advancements in the software has been really amazing... SageTV (not free beer/speech... cue boo's and hisses) works awesome with my pvr350 and approaches tivo-esque look/feel/usability...

YMMV,

e.

Linux PVR "support"

[Anonymous Coward]

All of us who subscribe to the mailing lists be prepared to help out the newbies as Linux PVRs become more mainstream

Yes, get ready with helpful phrases like "This was just discussed last week! Didn't you search the mailing list?" and "A simple Google search would have turned up..." and "Just recompile your kernel with..."

**sigh** Wake up!

[OpenSourceOfAllEvil]

Having watched coworkers dodge TiVo monthly fees with their PVR alternatives. I see two things:

2. Most of them suck, and are just lame me-toos. Who cares if it's free or cheaper, it sucks.

1. TiVo is hardly a giant. They've already defended their market from Microsoft's PVR entry, once. Why endorse lame alternatives that weaken the viability of company that is on the side of the consumer until a giant can DRM you blind.

Yeah, yeah. So you got a free alternative you claim is just as awesome. And my Commodore 64 running Geos is still better than a Mac with OS X. Yeah, sure whatever.

Believe what you want. Go ahead, shoot TiVo in the foot and your consumer rights in the face.

Re:**sigh** Wake up!

[john_anderson_ii]

I certaintly can't answer for the rest of the Linux PVR community, but I for one think my Linux PVR works great! I don't watch nearly enough TV to purchase a TiVo, and since my PVR was frankensteined from dead machines I had laying about, it cost me nothing but time. Of course I enjoy configuring and tweaking systems in spare time. :) The sum and substance is: If you like playing around with this kind of stuff, go for it, and enjoy the fringe benifits of having some level of use. If you don't like spending the time, then buy a TiVo and support an emerging company. It's all about choice, and having a choice is just awesome in my opinion.

Re:**sigh** Wake up!

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF are you talking about, and why did the mods mod you up?

This article is about a do-it-yourself PVR setup, using Linux, free software, and commodity hardware.

It's fun, and fairly easy, and very usefull.

TiVo is a good product, but it's not the alpha and the omega of multimedia devices.

Re:Don't forget pcHDTV

[swillden]

It just hurts their chances of staying in business.

Maybe, maybe not. I think Linux market penetration is approaching the point where vendors can maintain a viable Linux-only business. The advantage to supporting *only* Linux and not Windows is that they have a chance to gain Linux market mindshare and recognition as *the* Linux solution. Basically, they're betting that it's better to be the default option of a small market, rather than just another also-ran in a much larger market.

Is their strategy a good one? Only time will tell. I do think, however, that they've picked a very good technology to try it with. Using your PC as a PVR is a fairly geeky thing to do, given the existence of dedicated, relatively inexpensive devices like TiVo, and running Linux on your PC is also a fairly geeky thing to do. It seems likely that a much higher percentage of Linux users than Windows users would be interested in such technology. The absolute number of Windows PVR on PC users is larger, I'm sure, but the competition for those users is tougher. It's entirely possible that nearly 100% of the Linux market is actually more cards than 10% or whatever of the Windows market.

Time will tell, of course.

Re:Does this really apply?

[Dwonis]

Uh, again - me, sure. My mother, no way in hell would she do that.

So why don't you (for example) charge your mother 1/5 of what the TiVo subscription fees to maintain her xmltv software via ssh.

That sort of business model worked for CodeWeavers [codeweavers.com].

Re:TiVo uses Linux too!

[Moofie]

What does the GPL software have to do with the totally proprietary hardware system they have developed?

Want a better hardware implementation of TiVo? Take the software and port it to your toaster. Quit whining that they're not doing what YOU want them to do. DIY.

Re:Screwing TiVo Screws Linux

[Baseclass]

For one thing Tivo is extremely successful despite the slew of new Linux PVRs on the market. Tivo is but one success story, what's wrong with a little healthy competition.

The big thing for me is that Tivo is locked down. I wan't my PVR to be 100% customizable and upgradeable at my discretion. I also have a HUGE problem with big brother monitoring what I watch and what I pause (i.e. The Janet Jackson Super bowl halftime show). Tivo may run on Linux, but it's just another greedy corporation. Fuck Tivo and fuck you.

Re:CNBC predicted the end of Tivo

[Anonymous Coward]

if CNBC mentioned freevo in the same breath as the end of Tivo it must be true then!

while it is true that Tivo is under serious new pressure from the big cable companies since they are jumping on the bandwagon with cheaper (in both terms of the word) DVR offerings don't kid yourself into thinking that freevo/mythtv etc are penetrating the potential DVR market enough to even register on TiVo's competitor radar. The VCR will remain as more competition than any linux (or any other OS) freeware DVR for quite some time. It's a hack and would be a part time management job for most people. If you like it as a hobby that's one thing - but it's not the type of hobby that's going to put any companies out of business. That will occur due to a better business model, as the cable companies have (no HW charge, low monthly charges).

DVR is a really cool idea - and most people who enjoy TV would like one. Also, most people won't pay what TiVo asks for the monthly service let alone $200 or so for the hardware, like I have. Also, most people won't hack their own 'free' box together. Guess who wins here??? The cable co's who commoditize this and just slip a $5 or $10 monthly charge on your bill like they do for remote controls and cable boxes that we take for granted nowadays...

Showshifter anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

I once started building a MythTV-based PVR, based on a VIA EPIA board and using a WinTV PVR 350. I'm by no means a Linux newbie, but oh my god did this suck. From non-accelerated X drivers for the integrated video to randomly crashing mythtv backends, I've seen it all. After trying with no success for 2 weeks, I formatted the machine, installed Windows and bought a copy of ShowShifter [showshifter.com].. I was up and running in ten minutes and it's been working ever since. I'd rather just spend $60 for a working solution then keep on fiddling with MythTV for weeks and missing all my shows in the meantime.

Tuner costs the same as a TiVo unit......

[burbs]

One thing the author didn't do was list the price of a base-model TiVo machine. For those with a limited income, forking out $199 for a graphics card may not seem as beneficial as paying $199 for an entire unit. They may even be able to scrimp with the monthly fees.

I have a ReplayTV myself, the base $149 model. I liked the built-in network card and available 3rd party programs that allow me to stream media from my PC to the ReplayTV box, or vice-versa.

I think it's good that this article showed up to list the alternatives. I really don't understand why TiVo is so popular, especially when you compare the features of it to ReplayTV. But I guess that they've got on hell of a marketing team.

zap2it code

[lorcha]

one of the major reasons I gave up and abandoned my MythTV box for a replayTV box. It took me 3 days to find a working "subscription code" for the zap2it.com page and finally found one not with mythtv's forums but in the XMLTV user mailing list.

Did you ever consider just looking at the Mythtv installation docs [mythtv.org]? FYI, the code is "ZIYN-DQZO-SBUT". It was all over the mythtv forums and lists, but the easiest place to get it is in the install docs where it belongs.

I can see enough into the future to know that zap2it will certianly start charging fees by the end of this year.

Think it'll be less than $13/mo? I would wager that they will not be charging by the end of the year or in the forseeable future. They don't want people to write screen scrapers again 'cuz it's murder on their servers.

Even if they did charge, can we not just file it away as a "don't have to screw with it" payment?