Scanlation: Distributed Manga

IronicGrin writes "Just alerting you to a story I wrote for SFGate.com about the emergence of manga as a cultural and commercial force in the U.S.; in addition to discussing the fact that manga has begun to appear on national bestseller lists (volumes of Naruto and Rurouni Kenshin both cracked the USA Today Top 150), I also discuss scanlation communities--that is to say, distributed groups that use the Internet to translate and distribute as-yet unlicensed manga works--comparing this form of culture hacking to other open source development efforts. Do you think the comparison is apt? How many of you guys read manga (as opposed to watch anime), anyway?"

Scanlations are a launchpad for new Mangas + Links

[CharonX]

Scanlations actually act for Mangas, just like Fansubs for Animes, as a launchpad for Licensation.
I severely doubt that Naruto or Hikaru No Go would have become licensed, if they didn't already have such an big fanbase in English speaking countries - they might have disappeared into obscurity outside Japan instead.
The IP theft issue is not a real problem here - the artists like when their manga gets scanlated (after all, it shows how much it is liked). The publishing companies turn a blind eye to the scanlation groups, as they have nothing to loose (non-japanese Speakers wouldn't buy the manga anyways) but alot to gain (Getting alot of US fans = good chance that the manga gets licensed for the US) and most of the high-quality groups honor the request to stop scanlating licensed manga.

Finally, here are a few intresting links to Scanlation Pages for those that got interested in Manga:
Toriyama's World [toriyamaworld.com] produced high-quality Hikaru No Go and Naruto Scanlations until they got licensed, now offers e.g. Hunter X Hunter
Snoopy Cool [snoopycool.com] offers alot of intresting Scanlations, like Yakitate!! Japan - a manga about beaking bread(?!) and many others.
Enjoy

Re:I just don't get it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Saying "manga looks crappy" is like saying "comic books are for kids." There's no way that they are all alike or share a single esthetic; there's far more variety in Japanese mass-market comics -- in artstyle, storytelling techniques, intended audience -- than in the US product.

Uh.. manga looks crappy
and comic books are for kids

how gay

Re:Please don't compare them.

[brandonY]

You're wrong on 3 counts.

I love how whenever F/OSS is mentioned in relation to anything involving copyright someone has to play the Darl-Card. Is it just me, or is this the 21st century equivilant of Godwin's Law?

In this case the comparison is apt. You can't just throw away an argument entirely because it's used often. SCO claims open source builds off intellectual property without permission, and translating comics is building off intellectual property without permission. Pavon was right in comparing them.

Besides, the movement to translate Asiatic and Western European IP is something being pushed by Demand, not supply. There has always been easy availability of imported material/documents etc. Heck you can't buy a PDA book reader without getting seven copies of The Art of War.

I should point out that demand would be pulling, not pushing. I'm not sure what else you're trying to say, but..umm...ha!

Besides, noting the post count, and my own preference of the written word or the silver screen over comic books, I'd say the audience couldn't be that broad. 12-20+ year old males? (At least ignoring targetted imports towards the female demographic...)

Comics can't have larger audiences? Go read something real, like Neil Gaiman's The Sandman. It's not manga, but it is a comic book, and it is most definitely for adults and phenomenal work of literature. Just because your silver screen tells you comics are always for kids doesn't mean you have to believe it.

Re:Manga?

[stiffneck]

Allow me to invite you (or anyone here who doesn't read manga) to download and read a manga [narutofan.com]. Try getting something from Chapter 100+ as the quality is better.

And yes, I do read mangas, and in some occasions even find the mangas better than the anime (for stories that have an anime equivalent at least, like Naruto [animenfo.com], Midori no Hibi [animenfo.com] ...).

Ridiculous physics?

[CharonX]

Ah, but remember Anime Law #1:

#1 - Law of Metaphysical Irregularity
The normal laws of physics do not apply.

(For reference check the Anime Laws [tapanime.com])

Re:Manga?

[Anonymous Coward]

try this:

username: slashacct
password: slashdot

Re:Mainstream.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I think the stats are the other way around."

Actually I have a friend who works in the trends department of a Canadian book chain. As far as sales she says girls are the main purchasers of Manga books and the boys are gravitating toward the weekly manga magazines like Shounen Jump. The margin on books is much higher and those girls will often buy a whole set in one go. In addition in terms of sheer volume of sales transactions, the girls are creaming the boys most weeks by a ratio of 3 to 1. Add that to fact that they spend more per transaction and this bookchain is doing a heck of a lot to cater to these customers.

It is not just the chain stores either. Gift certificates are also drawing girls into comic shops to get their Shoujo Manga fix. Some stores sales are now skewed to the extreme that half are now comics (eg. DC, Darkhorse etc.) and half shoujo manga. This is huge when you consider the typical amount of miniscule but open space devoted to shoujo manga in these shops compared to traditional comics.

Fansubbers are NOT thieves

[SuperBanana]

Microsoft Office with a crack and a hacked translation into a new language is, while a labor of love, still outright theft.

Please don't misrepresent the manga/anime fansubbing/scanlation community to those who won't recognize just how ignorant you are. I know you think in black and white because of the way the movie and music studios have treated "piracy", but the difference between anime/manga studios and western movie/music studios could not possibly be any different with how they treat p2p distribution of their work.

Fansubbers and now BitTorrent link sites(at least, the ones run by fans, not p2p-kiddies) usually have policies about licensed content; stuff disappears when it gets licensed for distribution in a country where the translated language is spoken. AnimeSuki for example, does not list a single licensed series, even if groups are making torrents available. Anime[mircx] has actually shut down until they are technically able to honor a request from ADV (a distributor) to not list ADV series, regardless of licensing. Many IRC Fserve operators delete series if their fansub group has a policy for doing so.

Only one group, to my knowledge, has publicly gone against the requests of a studio or distributor, and that would be AnimeJunkies, who had an extremely poor reputation already (mention "mass naked child events" to anyone who was a fan of Ghost in The Shell: SAC and watch them giggle- it was one of their more famous mistranslations). AJ is, consequently, now almost dead- fansubbing very little, and shunned by most. I can't begin to describe the amount of hate that many anime fans had for AJ after a studio employee posted on a board the conversation she had with an AJ leader.

Fansub groups also STRONGLY discourage selling of their work by putting in "NOT FOR EBAY, SALE OR RENT, FAN TRANSLATION" randomly into their works(ebaying CD-R/DVD-R copies of group's works was particularly popular at one point among sleazy individuals- profit margins are quite good), and they often include a message urging people to buy the DVDs when they come out- and from being on IRC channels a decent amount, a lot of people DO buy the DVDs, soundtracks, etc when they come out.

The studios and distributors respect what the fansubbing community has done for them; they're fully aware they exist and they have zero desire to "do" something about them. You simply wouldn't have seen films like Spirited Away, and much of the stuff on Adult Swim come into the US if fansub groups hadn't slowly been building a market (or at least appreciation) for Anime. Further- the fansubs actually create more of a market for the DVDs and trinkets...not less.

So, pardon me when I take serious umbrage at you stating that fansub and scanlation groups are thieves, because it's one of the most ignorant statements I've heard in quite some time.

Re:IP Theft != Open Source

[line.at.infinity]

Having done translation before, I've read Japanese copyright law to make sure that I can distribute the translation legally. Basically copyright expires after fifty years* in Japan, and distribution of translation of copyrighted material is illegal without the permission of the author of the original work. Seeing how there are plenty of international agreements made, I'm sure copyright law regarding translation isn't much different in other countries. (Although I recall Dr. Zhivago being translated without the Russian author's permission, but I digress...)

Publishers have to consider legal + PR cost before they can go on a lawsuit spree. Often times if illegal distribution can increase hype and awareness amongst consumers who also legally purchase copies, then illegal distribution becomes free advertisement, and publishers have to strike a careful balance. Illegal distributors should think about how to do their business in a way that gives the least incentive for publishers to go after them.

* Expires after fifty years, but fifty years after exactly what depends on the circumstance.

Manga is dead

[sakusha]

I was over in Japan last month, I was astonished to see how things had changed over the last few years since I was there. I used to see everyone in the subways reading manga, now NOBODY reads manga anymore, they're all doing email on their keitai (cel phones).
I talked to some publishers, they admitted that the market for manga was collapsing, authors and inkers that were barely making money before the collapse are now getting out of the business.

What will the poor fanboys do when there are no longer any new comic books from Japan? Better start learning Korean. Too bad that Japanese you tried to learn was a big waste of time.

Re:similar to video game translations

[Mitchell Mebane]

A better VG translation site would be The Whirlpool [parodius.com].

A summation of points.

[asukaikari]

The creators are not losing money in scanlation. Because people who do not read Japanese would not buy the books anyway. I've never read them, but I've certainly watched fansubs. And as I said, they're not losing money. I wouldn't buy it in raw Japanese because it wouldn't make any sense to me. Further, after watching said show I buy the little bobbles, the posters, the pillows, the nightgowns, etc... So they're making money off me that they wouldn't have made otherwise.

Also, I was under the impression that scanlations and fansubs were not illegal when the material was not licensed for the US. Being not licensed for the US means 'no one has the rights to this material in this country'. It may not be legal, but I don't think it's illegal to do this sort of thing. There is no one to sue you because no one owns it.

Also, as noted, what are you supposed to do? Never read or watch the piece of work because no US distributor wants to pick it up? As others have said, US Distributors often choose what to license from what people are fansubbing. Do you think the creator of Naruto cares that it was Scanlated now that it's on the USA Today Top 150? It never would have been picked up if it was never scanlated.

And while some fansubs and scanlations are done rather shoddily, so are a lot of the US Distributed stuff. They'll stuff too many episodes on a disc and lose frames. Or they will not translate swears so they can market to kids. So you if you want to actually read, to the best of your ability when you don't know the language, what the creator intended, sometimes this is your only avenue.

And the people who do this stuff are not doing it for money. They simply want to expose people to stuff they love. They mostly do this stuff on their free time and for no money. I think villifying them and the people who patronize them is unfair.

I don't think they are doing anything wrong morally or illegally.

Re:Manga is dead

[sakusha]

If they're not reading manga on the subways, they're not buying manga. People used to carry around manga to read in their spare time, and most people's spare time was spent in transit, on subways, buses, etc. If they're not reading manga on the subway, they're not reading manga.
Manga kissa aren't as common as the fanboy press would have you believe. There are far more cybercafes than manga kissa.
And in case you didn't know, the recession in Japan is basically over, the collapse of manga is relatively recent, coming with the rise of keitai email. Manga sales were pretty strong through the recession, but dropping rapidly now.