Daleks Exterminated From New Dr. Who

albino eatpod writes "The BBC are reporting that despite 'the very best deal possible,' a failure to agree terms between the BBC and the estate of late sci-fi writer Terry Nation has meant that we will not being seeing TV's most evil villains in the new series, starring Christopher Eccleston and Billy Piper."

Daleks and Dollars

[mfh]

This always happens when you have an estate controlling the interests of an artist or writer. Estate holders only consider the money side of things, but most artists alive wish only to impact the world, by sharing their life-blood with the public -- forget the bottom line. Either that, or the creative community is simply addicted to the process of creation that they don't recognize the business side of things as being very necessary or important. The spirit of art is passion, and sharing passion can make passion spread like a wildfire. I think that it's sacrilege for heirs of creative folks to block the art because of the almighty buck. Therefore, I too will miss our mighty Dalek overlords.

...this season.

[Doktor Memory]

I have a sneaking suspicion that if the new show does well, and is renewed, the Nation estate and the Beeb will suddenly discover their strong mutual interest in reviving the flow of money from Dalek merchandising.

(Can someone explain to me how it is that Nation's estate personally own the Daleks? Didn't he write those scripts on spec for the BBC?)

For the best?

[gilesjuk]

In some ways it is for the best. It hold back the progression of a TV series if all you do is recreate yet another encounter with the Daleks.

Perhaps something along the lines of the Borg could be used. The cybermen but a lot more evil. I'm sure someone must have some good ideas.

No Daleks for now

[hal2814]

There might not be Daleks right now, but I gaurantee you that if Dr. Who becomes a hit, the Beeb will gladly pony up the cash to the Nation estate for rights to the Daleks.

Personally, there are few Dalek stories I like (Genesis, Day of, the 7th Doctor one) so I'm glad to see they won't be returning. I tend to prefer non-recurring villans.

Sounds great to me

[Megane]

I think we've already got more than enough of the Daleks in reruns. They may be the number one bad guys, and rather popular with the fanbase, but they're hardly integral to the series like Gallifrey and the Time Lords (and Earth!) are. Time to move on to other bad guys and other problems with time and space. I'd rather see more of The Brigadier, even though I know he's getting a bit on in the years.

Cybermen?

[British]

I wonder if they will bring back the Cybermen, or skip it in worry that it would pale in comparison to the borg.

Other than that, I can't think of any major villan race that would have the potential to be broughtr back.

Maybe the Sontarans? If so, give them bigger looking guns. I always thought they should have a magazine that clips underneath it.

Sad about the Daleks though, that was one villan race that was so incredibly well-tied to the Doctor Who series.

Just please don't let the series have any resemblence to the 1996 FOX movie. The only thing it had in common with the series was Sylvester McCoy.

Re:am I the only one saying

[mirko]

I don't know but I read that there'd be a remake of soem tv serie : Doctor Who.
Here's the closest clue of what Dr Who [gpf-comics.com] is I have.

And here's a Java port of the game Daleks [koobifora.com] which I used to practice on my Atari ST.

So I guess it's about robots and retro-sci-fi.

Re:Daleks and Dollars

[Atrax]

The real George Lucas died ages ago. His replacement/doppelganger plays the part of "estate" in this situation

Well, it's better than believing that EP IV and EP I came from the same pen.....

Yay!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh comon, we're not missing out on much. The Daleks were rubbish. This isn't to troll, it's simply giving my opinion that these Daleks were the worst "villains" I could comprehend, you can't even watch to laugh AT the programming for too long because you grow so bored.

I for one am happy this has fallen through, I'd hate to see the BBC waste money on such dead-and-buried shows.

Re:More than money

[eggboard]

The Master was pretty fantastic: always on the verge of total defeat and total success, such as when he almost destroyed the universe (at least once or twice) in his attempt to control it. Actually, Lord Voldemort in the Harry Potter books has a clear lineage in the Master.

Hardly

[mccalli]

...but most artists alive wish only to impact the world, by sharing their life-blood with the public -- forget the bottom line.

It's a nice, romantic view but it isn't the case here. Terry Nation had a serious falling out with the BBC over control and payments, and continually refused the BBC permission to use them. I believe various other monsters are involved as well - a true Whovian will be able to fill the details in here, as opposed to myself who just watches the programmes on cable sometimes.

Plus, the BBC doesn't have a very good record with Daleks. There aren't very many working models left, and when the BBC borrowed one from the Dr Who Exhibition in Llangollen (now back in Blackpool after god know's hoow many years) they managed to damage it.

Nope, I'm not at all surprised by this decision. And to be honest, I'm not all bothered either. It would be nice for a bit of continuity I suppose, but really I'm sure they can find more villians to go up against.

More worrying to me is the idea of 50 minute stand-alone episodes, rather than maybe half-hour installments that you had before. I really feel they need to keep the cliffhangers that used to typify the series.

Cheers,
Ian

I thought...

[kabocox]

Estate holders only consider the money side of things, but most artists alive wish only to impact the world, by sharing their life-blood with the public -- forget the bottom line.

I thought most artist's work was zero until they died, then the value would shoot up. I've always gotten the sense that most artists would love to make a buck off their work in life rather than having it all go to their kids. Why shouldn't the kids think about the money first?

Actually, from what I read of the article, it sounded like "editorial control" and not money was the problem. I could see the BBC wanting to do something different with the Daleks and saying "No" thats not how Daleks should be. I'd rather them just come up with more evil bad guys. Come on the universe is big. It can have more than a half dozen regular bad guy species.

Dalek's were a bit overrated anyway....

[JackJudge]

I mean look at their track record, after Davros was introduced they were reduced to the level of galactic criminals and pests, not the all conquering ruthless invaders we feared from the show's first decade.
Fanboys will prolly argue that in Genesis OFTD, where Davros was introduced, the Time Lords asked the Doctor to interfere to hamstring their development. He succeeded only too well. As long as Davros was around he caused so much internal strife among the Daleks, culminating in a civil war, that they realy were just shadows of their former selves.

Re:Hardly

[Gordonjcp]

There used to be (5-6 years ago) a Dalek as part of the window display of a garage in Elgin. I used to go past it on my way from Aberdeen to Inverness. I stopped in once, and asked the owner. He said it was a real Dalek, rescued from being disposed of by the BBC.

Last time I went past, it was an outdoor clothing shop (wtf?). Didn't see the Dalek, but it might be worth chasing.

Re:Hardly

[Atrax]

> There used to be (5-6 years ago) a Dalek as part of the window display of a garage in Elgin

There was a shop in Clerkenwell (London) that had one, opposite where I used to work. Either the BBC made a hell of a lot of them or they've been breeding while we weren't looking. There are a few floating round Australia now, having seen a couple at the Powerhouse a while back.

I think maybe everyone who can make a passable replica does the throwaway "genuine dalek" thing.

This is not just bad for the new Dr Who series

[jonwil]

Its also bad for any reruns.
Here in australia the ABC (government owned Free To Air station) has been replaying all of Dr Who right from the very first episode on up. So far, they have skipped stories and episodes that are missing or incomplete. But they have also had to skip a fair few dalek episodes (War Games is one story they had to skip for some dalek-related reason) due to this greed.

I think this would be a perfect example for that lawsuit thino about copyright mentioned a while back where they talked about things like out-of-print books that you cant get because the copyright holder with you and etc.

It was 1963 when the Daleks were created

[lordpixel]

Back then lawyers were nice cudly things, and evil media empires (which the BBC isn't, anyway) didn't have the thumbscrews on so tight.

I believe for BBC shows older than a certain date, they actually have to pay the actors more money when they re-run them or release them on DVD.

Call me crazy but..

[scrubmuffin]

I was never that intimidated by the whole 'washing machine with a pea-shooter' thing anyway. Now k9 on the other hand, that was just creepy!

they *could* go upstairs but feared towels

[wazoo69]

1. Daleks COULD go up stairs. In the 7th Doctor story, "Rememberence of the Daleks", they demonstrated that the Daleks had invented some type of anti-gravity propulsion system giving them JUST enough power to climb stairs but not enough to actually fly around..:)

2. MOST of the Dalek stories were completely retarded IMHO. You create a monster that is supposed to DEFINE *evil* yet can be (usually) fooled by having the Doctor or a companion throw a towel over their eye stalk. ugh!

I think "Genesis of the Daleks" was their last good story and that's only because of Tom Baker and Davros (I forgot the actor's name..Michael somebody I think..sorry).

If they were to be used again, as a Whovian I'm REALLY hoping that they re-create them in a vicious and sinister light. Goodbye retard plotholes, hello ultimate Evil!

Terry Nation and Douglas Adams

[Markvs]

I've been reading "The Hitchhiker", a biography of Douglas Adams. Douglas wrote 3-5 stories (one under a psuedonym, one he's uncredited...) and worked as an editor and script producer role for a year during Tom Baker's tenure.

Douglas hated dealing with the Dalek scripts, because "Terry would have a storyboard with people running down a hallway and explosions... I'd have to write a story out of it!"

BTW, Shada was only made because the BBC considered the Krikketmen script too silly. Silly. For a character that flies around the universe in a Police Box, has a robotic dog and offers jelly babies to people...

-Markvs

Re:Hardly

[mccalli]

So how is it that the estate can halt the use of the Daleks but can't halt the entire series?

Terry Nation claims to have come up with the Daleks himself*, but he was a hired writer for the series at the time. I don't know what deal they had, but it seemed he kept more control over his own ideas than the BBC probably thought they'd allowed him.

* There are many arguments about this. A number of people suggest that technicians working on the show actually came up with the Dalek design.

Cheers,
Ian

Editorial influence? Daleks?

[zakezuke]

...we were not able to give the level of editorial influence that the Terry Nation estate wished to have --TFA

*Exterminate Exterminate*
What strikes me as odd is the concept of editorial control over a one dimentional grade-b supervillon that has been in our culture for over 40 years. Perhaps "Rememberence of the Daleks", an episode that has Davros fighting the the Supreme Dalek was ment to illistrate to us the fight for creative control over the future of the Daleks. The Orthadox Daleks born from Skaro's toxic enviroment with their desire to exterminate anything and everything in site, and the Neo-Davros Daleks without conscience or remorse and a geneticly implanted desire to enslave the universe and exterminate anything and everything in site.

What I find more peculiar is the very idea that anyone could "ruin the brand of the Daleks". Daleks are a b-class one dimentional supervillion with a very limited vocabulary. While Dalek is likely a trademark of Terry Nation, I don't honestly see how they could be considered to be a brand outside of Doctor Who. They are salt shakers that run around saying "exterminate" are are not likely to be licensed to anyone with the exception of Doctor Who. Keeping the integrity of a brand name is typicaly only important if you are selling a product, in this case a product that has only one customer.

Re:Hardly

[e6003]

Terry Nation (and hence his estate) owns the rights to the Daleks 50/50 with the BBC. On a handul of Dalek episodes that were not written by Nation he is either credited as "Daleks Created By Terry Nation", or, if this credit was omitted, a voice over announcement to the effect was made. Such announcements can be heard on off-air audio recordings of some 60s Dalek stories. The designer who created the first physical Dalek from Nation's ideas (one Raymond Cusick) got (in 1963) 250 and a pat on the back, as I believe he has said in several interviews since.

Re:Dalek's were a bit overrated anyway....

[The Lynxpro]

"I mean look at their track record, after Davros was introduced they were reduced to the level of galactic criminals and pests, not the all conquering ruthless invaders we feared from the show's first decade.
Fanboys will prolly argue that in Genesis OFTD, where Davros was introduced, the Time Lords asked the Doctor to interfere to hamstring their development. He succeeded only too well. As long as Davros was around he caused so much internal strife among the Daleks, culminating in a civil war, that they realy were just shadows of their former selves."

In the 60s, the Daleks were taking their orders from the Supreme Dalek. It wasn't like they had a collective conscious that came to consent before any of them took any action. So how is it any different whether the Dalek masses are receiving their orders from the Supreme Dalek or from Davros himself?

And the Time Lords ordered the Doctor to destroy the development of the Daleks, not "hamstring their development." It was the Doctor who wussed out and decided to "hamstring" them instead of exterminating them at the point of germination because he himself did not want to be guilty of genocide even though it would've saved countless innocents across space and time.

Re:Hardly

[PCM2]

Either the BBC made a hell of a lot of them or they've been breeding while we weren't looking ... I think maybe everyone who can make a passable replica does the throwaway "genuine dalek" thing.

No, it's very possible the BBC made a hell of a lot of them. Most people don't notice, but the styles of Dalek fashion have changed considerably over the years, particularly in their color schemes. The last few Dalek series featured sort of a war between two factions of Daleks, one sort of cream-colored and the others the more traditional dark grey. The little lights on the sides of their heads have changed regularly throughout the years, too. What's more, the idea that the BBC would throw away such a thing is hardly crazy, either -- they threw away countless original masters of Doctor Who episodes as well, back in the days when reruns on the BBC were unheard-of.

Re:Copyright Too Long

[Artifakt]

Roger Zelazny - Great fantasy and SF author, Royalties showing lots of signs they would increase rapidly in the next few years - his Amber series optioned for film, much of his other work coming back into print, books-on-tape versions which he was getting the income both as writer and narrator, and even talk of theme park rides based on his work.
Roger died still in middle age, of a relatively nasty form of cancer, with huge medical bills, kids at or near college age, and someone else having to be hired to read the last two books of the series to finish out that particular contract. Not only were there lots of bills to pay immediately, but the death caused lots of legal delays in getting money already owed. He had a 2 novel connected work about half finished, and Jane Lindskold finished it up, but the publisher decided since she was a relative unknown, they would have to be scrunched together into a 1 book version. How much extra effort was that already, and wouldn't it have been even worse if his copyrights had ended at death?