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Music Media Government The Courts News

RIAA Continues Distributing Dud CDs to Satisfy Settlement 399

cosyne writes "Part of the music industry's recent price fixing settlement involves giving free CDs to public libraries. Although they are technically complying with the the letter of the law, they're abusing the spirit by giving the libraries large piles of crud. According to the Stevens Point Journal, '[the] Milwaukee Public Library received 1,235 copies of Whitney Houston's 1991 recording of "The Star-Spangled Banner," 188 copies of Michael Bolton's "Timeless," 375 of "Entertainment Weekly: The Greatest Hits 1971," and 104 copies of Will Smith's "Willennium."' The recording industry obviously wouldn't want to have libraries loaning out music that people might otherwise buy." See also a related story about shipments to another state.
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RIAA Continues Distributing Dud CDs to Satisfy Settlement

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  • Artists (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RomSteady ( 533144 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @01:52PM (#9795267) Homepage Journal
    I'm wondering if the artists are being paid for their product, or if this is eventually coming out of the artist's pockets.

    The reason I'm asking is that the record industry usually charges everything that it can back to the artists: production costs, advertising costs, warehousing costs, everything. Any incoming funds are applied against the record company bottom line first, and the remainder goes against the "debt" accrued by the artist.

    So, are the artists getting any money from the disbursement of their product?
  • BlackListing? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by MacFury ( 659201 ) <me.johnkramlich@com> on Sunday July 25, 2004 @01:56PM (#9795291) Homepage
    Since the RIAA are pricks...could we blacklist their execs. I'm sure it's being too idealistic...but if we refused to do anything for them...then their lives wouldn't be so great.

    Want to go to McDonalds and have a big mac? Sorry, we won't serve you because you're an asshole.

    Do it to them everywhere everytime until the change their ways.

    It's nice to dream once in awhile..

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:07PM (#9795362)
    I live in Wisconsin and at the New Berlin Library they have a table with a bunch of these CDs on sale for about 3 bucks each, I have been there a few times after they set it up and to my surprise many of the CDs had been bought. It was rather entertaining to see the library selling Wu Tang albums.
  • by orionware ( 575549 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:11PM (#9795384)
    Here's what I think would have been the fairest to the consumers.

    Every time an album hits #1, the industry must give out 10,000 copies. When they've given out their quota this practice stops.

    How hard was that?
  • by alangmead ( 109702 ) * on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:14PM (#9795401)
    The article says:
    To prevent the companies from dumping unwanted inventory, lawyers for the states came up with a formula based on how much time artists spent on the Billboard charts, Wisconsin Assistant Attorney General Eric Wilson said. But he conceded, "it may be hard to believe looking at the selections."
    but the results don't seem to stack up. Does anyone know what the formula they came up with? From the small description there, I can imagine a few possible flaws. Either there was some minimum price, which encouraged the shipment of many, many slow moving items, or it was based on the Billboard charts results for the artist, not the album. (Will Smith and Whitney Houston have both made some very popular works, but the albums being reported to be distributed aren't among their most notable ones.)
  • Ode to Filesharing (Score:2, Interesting)

    by binaryspiral ( 784263 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:19PM (#9795431)

    They say: Make it legal files, all you smart and shifty peeps
    for an RIAA lawsuit will leave you on the streets.
    Sure they're suing young and old people for sharing the tunes
    but they're alienating their market - the stupid buffoons

    Tomorrow are you sure you would buy from them?
    The pricks just scored ten grand from mom of ten!
    In the 90's when CD price-fixing was raging full on
    I paid over $30 per disc, RIAA you stupid greedy moron

    And now that I have the simple, easy, anonymous way to score
    free music from you - go blow me, you selfish whore
    Music industry, I find your ethics a royal joke
    You'd rather pay millions to a pop singer stoned on coke

    Keep going down the evil road you travel
    I enjoy watching your business model unravel
    Your death grip of online tune sources will get weak
    Then iTunes, Napster, and the bands will then speak

    They'll market directly to the fans that gladly pay
    while keeping your greedy lawyers at bay
    you'll see, mark my words I am here to say,
    I will enjoy that one, beautiful, precious day

  • OJ didn't do it... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CaptainPinko ( 753849 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:26PM (#9795462)
    ...as far as the law is concerned. He could admit to it and you could have 10 different witness there at the scene of the crime with it all on video tape and I'm quite sure IANAL that you would still have to treat him like any other innocent person since he was found innocent in his criminal trial. Everything else doesn't matter in the eyes of the law. But irregardless I fail to see what relevance your OJ annecdote has to do with blacklisting corporations.
  • by Omestes ( 471991 ) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {setsemo}> on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:29PM (#9795484) Homepage Journal
    I've only bought one new CD in the last 3 years (A Perfect Circle: Thirteenth Step), and for that I got 10 people to chip in $1.50, then burned 10 copies of it. I figured this plan is a good compromise between supporting bands I respect, and screwing those nasty RIAA people.

    Some bands under RIAA labels are still decent musicians, capable of decent and creative music. I wish there was a decent way to support them, and not their corporate overlords. I'm not going to boycott good music just because the RIAA sucks, this is shooting off my nose to spite my face.

    Also most indie bands suck. I know this is a sin to say in some circles, where obscurity equals good. The sad fact is that most obscure bands suck. My local scene is choked with bad punk bands (whos only talent is producing mildly amusing covers, too bad that isn't my thing), amatuer death metal, and the garage band ressurection. Nothing I really want to hear. Though there are a couple small-venue bands that I have purchased CDs from, but most of those CDs are of poor quality.

    I was thinking that if I stopped supporting RIAA attatched bands that I respect, that they might get a clue, and start some independant release scheme, but them realized that that is dumb. The majority of people will continue buying from RIAA folk, because that is what is available, and being with a big company affords visibility. Fleh.
  • Re:Idiots (Score:2, Interesting)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:31PM (#9795499) Journal
    Their bad stock management is not our problem. They've had 20 years to perfect the process of making CDs cheaply and predict what the market wants. 10,000 copies of whitney is probably not even worth the cost of having it dumped in a land-fill so dumping it in a library really helps them out.
  • by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:36PM (#9795530) Homepage Journal
    I don't understand why these groups are allowed to give away items by "value" rather than being required to drop cash. I'm pretty sure that those CDs aren't worth $15 but will probably be charged against the settlement to the tune of $18 because of the suggested retail price.
  • Re:Another Day... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:47PM (#9795589)
    When are they going to realise that when people hear about them doing this stuff, it makes them less inclined to buy their content?


    They realise two things:

    a)their target demographic (children aged 11-21) are either not going to hear about it, or not care, or can be easily fooled into supporting "alternative" artists (courtney love, limp bizkit) who talk shit about the RIAA, but still whore out for them

    b)their target audience reallly has no where else to turn to (very few people have the stomach to listen to third-rate techno, folk, punk or metal. And they're certainly not going to pay for it).

    In short, the RIAA KNOWS it has nothing to worry about.
  • by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @02:56PM (#9795636) Homepage
    A morally bankrupt industry pays off a judgment with crap product and probably has a good laugh about how it helped them dump excess inventory and they're probably getting a write off for it on top of that.

    Makes you wonder if they're the exception or us.

  • Re:1,235 Copies (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 25, 2004 @03:04PM (#9795679)
    Pay to throw them away, of course. You could potentially cause a business to close up shop by giving them more stuff than they can afford to have thrown away. (it costs my retail business a couple grand to have the trash picked up, although we use rather large dumpsters).
  • by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportland&yahoo,com> on Sunday July 25, 2004 @03:35PM (#9795810) Homepage Journal
    They make millions of sales a year. Clearly, most people don't think all they have is crud.

    I would have liked them to be forced only things that have gone gold.

    Or books on CD.
  • by PW2 ( 410411 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @04:10PM (#9795956)
    I didn't.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 25, 2004 @04:58PM (#9796202)
    Yeah I got mine ages ago. It was fairly plain and unobtrusive. It didn't exactly scream "RIAA SETTLEMENT CHECK ENCLOSED SO DON'T MISTAKE ME FOR JUNKMAIL AND THROW ME OUT."

    If you were not careful you might have tossed it out with junk mail.
  • *vouchers* (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 25, 2004 @05:32PM (#9796350)
    They should have required the RIAA to give the libraries *vouchers* of a certain total value, that the libraries could then use to purchase whatever CDs they wanted.
  • by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @06:44PM (#9796717) Homepage Journal
    " If you really hate the RIAA so much, you should not only vote with your wallet by not giving them money, you should also refrain from obtaining their products illegally."

    For the record, I haven't downloaded music in over a year now. I subscribed to a music service called Rhapsody, and haven't looked back in P2P's direction.

    I still have some bitterness here because I was called a thief by the *AA before I downloaded music simply because I had a CD burner. I was called a thief AFTER I did download music even though the main use of it was to find new CDs I wanted. (in my 56k days, downloading albums was damn near impossible.) Despite this, I went ahead and subscribed to the music service. I'm 100% legit now. I did NOT want any of my money going to the RIAA.

    Here's the problem, though: There will always be music trading of some sort going on. There is no practical way I can stop other people. The best I've got is to let them see what I'm doing for music these days. There are always going to be people using MP3s legitimately, though the RIAA doesn't see MP3 players as being anything but tools for stolen property. Basically, I am of the belief that no matter how many people stop, the people that don't stop will keep the RIAA in its crummy position.

    It's not that I'm trying to shoot your point down, it's just that I don't see it as being all that practical. The music services these days are suitable enough for me that I don't care if P2P music trading lives or dies. However, the RIAA needs a stronger message. It really shocks me that the brilliant success of iTunes hasn't changed the RIAA's tune at all. (Err, that I've found.) That kind of shoots down my idea of spending $100 there. *Sigh*

    I think you're right, but I don't think it can happen on a big enough scale. I'm aching for something that sends a bigger message.
  • by Simonetta ( 207550 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @07:25PM (#9796928)
    Given the mentality of the RIAA, it's only a matter of time before they launch a serious attack on public libraries. After all, libraries allow people to freely take CDs home, listen to them (consume RIAA product without a per-use payment), and then bring them back if they don't like them (actually bring them back whether they like them or not).

    This situation seems just guaranteed to make the RIAA foam at the mouth. And these are the guys that wanted Congress to put DRM in every $1.50 Digital-to-Analog convertor chip, so you know their enthusiasm is not tempered by logic.

    So an attempt by the RIAA to force the public libraries to remove all the CDs and DVDs from their shelves seems inevitable. They probably think that they can file one brief with one judge someplace and the next day all the CDs and DVDs would be removed from the all of the stacks. They probably think that putting pressure on the libraries is going to be even easier than setting 100 Harvard Law Graduates on a high school girl downloading Britany outtakes. They probably think that they're going to wake up the day after filing their little brief and find hundreds of millions of dollars in checks piled up at their doorstep sent to them from librarians in unpaid royalities from all the people who checked out CDs, took them home and listened to them,... Without Paying the RIAA anything!

    Personally, myself, I wouldn't mess with the librarians. They handled many yahoos before. Bozos like the RIAA are nothing new to them.

    Every generation, someone NEW to the publishing industry makes the observation that people who read books from the library aren't actually buying the books that they read... and this ain't right. The other publishers point out that they might sell 500 copies of some fool's first novel if he stands on his head long enough on TV, but the public libraries buy 50,000 copies on the basis of a thumb's up review in NY Review of Books, at full list price.

    The RIAA isn't all that bright, so, maybe, messing with the Public Library institutions of America may be the force that knocks them back to their caves.
  • by perlchild ( 582235 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @07:40PM (#9796982)
    Why didn't the judge do like they normally do in term of damages: require money that the court gives to the plaintiff? And the libraries could by, as per market, what will interest their readers? Or is that solution too obvious?
    Isn't this a bit close to the alimony giver controlling how much the victim gets?
  • by dvd_tude ( 69482 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @08:58PM (#9797424)
    The mistake the court made is that they expected the RIAA to be fair. Well, the RIAA schooled them on that.

    Fact is, the RIAA is arguably the most consumer-hostile trade group today. This cynical move on their part cetainly proves it beyond all doubt.

    So how to fix them?

    The court should re-value the RIAA's "donation" at fair market value. Now here's the beauty: in this case, these CD titles are scrap, so they have negative value. They cost more to dispose of than they're worth.

    So the RIAA owes libraries for tossing their (RIAA's) trash. I say fine RIAA that amount, and little extra to punish them for being asshats.

    Now since RIAA cannot be trusted to secure and distribute titles of value for the libraries, simply take that job away from them. Impose a cash settlement from RIAA and let the libraries use those funds to acquire the titles themselves, from whomever they choose (including non-RIAA artists, out-of-prints, and so forth.)

    I doubt the RIAA will learn any lesson given their track record of dogged hostility, but at least they could be forced in actually bringing about improvements in library media stocks.
  • by ottffssent ( 18387 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @09:36PM (#9797606)
    The more I gain experience with foreign library systems, the more I respect the South Central Library System [lib.wi.us], which I grew up using and had rather taken for granted. Within about 3 days, for free, I can get any book in over 50 public libraries [lib.wi.us] covering the entire southern half of the state of Wisconsin shipped to my local branch.

    It's bad because libraries are no longer a big archive of collected books (costs too much to track all those dusty titles)

    LINKCat, the library catalog system that SCLS uses, keeps track of all those dusty titles virtually for free, and gets them in the hands of the public with a minimum of effort on the part of all involved. Notwithstanding this technology, the library employees I have dealt with at member libraries have been helpful, courteous, and efficient. I have requested titles held in the basement archives a mere 10 minutes before library closing. About 8 minutes later someone returned from the basement with my book, apologizing for her tardiness, explaining that the lights had been turned off already, and she had to hunt through the stacks with a flashlight to get me what I wanted.

    Though this level of service seems not to be universally available, public libraries certainly *can* maintain large inventories and be an incredible community resource without exceeding budgetary constraints - I've seen it happen.
  • by MichaelCrawford ( 610140 ) on Sunday July 25, 2004 @10:41PM (#9797939) Homepage Journal
    I'm a musician too [geometricvisions.com] but I play the piano rather than sing.

    I use my middle name to distinguish myself from that OTHER Michael Crawford. I shouldn't have to - he changed his name for the stage.

  • by perlchild ( 582235 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @12:39AM (#9798497)
    The Mint doesn't pay alimony. Giving the RIAA the choice of which CDs it can use to pay, when they clearly do not have the same value over time allows them a lot of control over what the "payment" is actually worth.

    Considering that the said value also presumably includes a portion for RIAA dues paid by the publisher is also a consideration.

    How would the court view a lawyer normally charging 150$/hour, value his hours at 300$ and "give" them in place of alimony(say giving them for charity). Such payment in kind would not be accepted, why do they allow the RIAA to do so? The idea here is not that the RIAA can choose which form of payment it wants to use, but that the RIAA also influences the value of the good, before it makes the gift...

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