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Music Businesses Media Media (Apple) Apple

Apple Releases Logic 7, New Jam Packs 187

Posted by pudge from the mmmmmmusic dept.
RadRafe writes "Apple today introduced Logic Pro 7 and Logic Express 7. Logic Pro now features Distributed Audio, a clustering tool (Xgrid-based?) to exploit the DSP power of multiple Macs, and Sculpture, the long-awaited component-modeling synthesizer. Also out today are two new Jam Packs for GarageBand - though they work in Logic too, now that Logic supports Apple Loops."
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Apple Releases Logic 7, New Jam Packs More

Apple Releases Logic 7, New Jam Packs

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  • "Scale out" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ARRRLovin ( 807926 ) on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @02:39PM (#10386178)
    With "grid-everything" becoming the latest buzz, hardware manufacturers must be salivating every time a new distributed processing program is released.

    • Re:"Scale out" (Score:5, Interesting)

      by BWJones ( 18351 ) * on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @02:48PM (#10386273) Homepage Journal
      This actually is a *BIG* thing. Built in distributed computing infrastructure that is easy to enable without a ton of scripting and custom coding has been a holy grail of distributed computing for a while. Programs like Pooch from Dean Dauger have helped considerably, but distributed computing built into applications that take advantage of an OS supported computing "grid" are another level entirely. Certainly folks that use film rendering and such can benefit, but so can users of Photoshop, not to mention a whole cadre of folks in scientific computing (like myself) for image analysis and clustering analysis (of images) and molecular simulations, particle based modeling etc...etc...etc...

    • Re:"Scale out" (Score:3, Informative)

      by Wesley Felter ( 138342 )
      Latest buzz? Bah, I remember reading about 3D artists stuffing Quadra 950s full of Radius Rockets 10 years ago.
    • Pretty soon we'll grid locks... like in slapstick shows... But, the backdoor intrusion will be to knock out the hinges...

  • Cubase SX 3 (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    is what the cool kids are running thesedays, that full VST experience (gotta love vst plugins), from Steiberg of course
    Clicky [steinberg.net]

    • Re:Cubase SX 3 (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jsoffron ( 718739 ) on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @02:58PM (#10386368)
      Just wondering (honestly, because I don't know) - does slahdot usually post about music software updates? It seems an odd thing to show up on the front page, because I didn't see anything (which, again, might have been something I missed rather than something that didn't happen) about the new Cubase on here, which I think is as/more popular than Logic, or anything about adobe audition when it came out, or anything about the other myriad music programs on the market. Why is this slashdot news-worthy?

      • Re:Cubase SX 3 (Score:3, Informative)

        by bobbagum ( 556152 )
        It's the beowolf cluster of those that makes it newsworthy
      • I'm new to the mac world...just recently got a used G3 800Mhz iBook that I've dual booted with Gentoo Linux. I'm also starting to play guitar and mess around with drums. I've looked at GarageBand...and alas, my iBook is just too weak to run it.

        I've started looking into open source analogs of things like GarageBand and Logic. I've found Ardour, Hydrogen, and Audacity. Are there any others that I should look at with similar functionality as the Apple 'store bought' versions have?

        Eventually, I'll try to get

        • Re:Cubase SX 3 (Score:3, Informative)

          by BorgCopyeditor ( 590345 )
          For what it's worth, I run Logic Express on my 800MHz eMac and do just fine: I haven't really tested the limits, but in one song I have 8 audio tracks with a few (simple) effects and about half a dozen software synths, a couple of individual buses with global effects (reverb, delay), and the main ouput with a multiband compressor on it ... with about 80% or so of CPU power. Logic also allows you to "freeze" tracks, which means running off an audio copy with all the effects already processed, so you can squ
          • " For what it's worth, I run Logic Express on my 800MHz eMac and do just fine: "

            Thanks for the reply...just curious, which version of Logic Express were you running that worked this well on the 800Mhz eMac? Maybe I could pick up a used copy on eBay or something...

            Thanks in advance...

            • Version 6. I'd be a little dubious about eBay because of Logic's hardware copy-protection scheme, a USB "key." If that's corrupted, you might not be able to get a new one.
        • Before i moved to doing audio on my dual g5, i was doing it on a dual 500 mhz g4 (and for quite a while i was doing it before the second processor did anything at all) using Mark of the Unicorn Digital Performer, which lets you record, edit, and do midi sequencing. I haven't used logic heavily, but its commercial grade. garage band is great for noodling around, but i find it limiting for the sort of stuff i do.
    • I have used Cubase, Nuendo, Protools, Logic and Reason. They all suck as sequencers when compared to Digital Performer. VST on the mac is now pointless, since all the *cool* kids are using Audio Units. Look up the synth packages. MachFive, Kompakt and Intakt are all AU plugs.

      Steinberg originally developed for Windows (actually IRIX, but that's a long story), and has not done a good job porting things to the mac.

      But if you are comfortable with Cubase, go for it, after all, only the end product matters.

      • Re:Cubase SX 3 (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        IRIX? What the fuck? Cubase was originally an Atari ST program.
        • IRIX? yeah, exactly. wtf? Cubase evolved on the Atari ST from Steinberg's Pro24 - alson on the Atari ST (built in midiport -woohoo!). I believe Steinberg moved to the mac from the Atari and only after that moved to the PC. Music developers tended to heavily favor the mac over the pc. Logic was also originally developed by C-Lab (which changed its name to Emagic) on the Atari ST (8 mhz processor - woohoo!) when it was known as Notator. It then became Notator Logic. Then Logic. Then moved to the Mac. Emagic
        • Cubase was an Atari program, I was refering to Nuendo. Nuendo was developed for a quad proccessor IRIX system. Steinberg did all the development and some of the beta on Octanes, only to later port it to Windows, which pissed off many Mac users. Since then, Steinberg has always been a Windows first, Mac second developer.

          Cubase has Atari roots, yes, I admit it, i was wrong...

    • Re:Cubase SX 3 (Score:3, Informative)

      by Brackney ( 257949 )
      I use Logic Pro and have no trouble w/ VST plugins using FXPansion's VST/AU converter. Works like a charm.
    • Those must be cool time traveling kids, considering version 3 isn't available yet.

      . I use version 2 on Windows and the Mac and they're both great. Its an expensive program, but with a nice soundcard you can do some serious work with the Steinberg Stuff.

      I tried logic once and I couldn't figure it out without looking things up. With Cubase its pretty straightforward.

      By the way, Audacity supports VST's as well, although they don't display like they do in Steinberg's software.

      • Those must be cool time traveling kids, considering version 3 isn't available yet.

        Strange - I could've sworn that that's exactly what was in the upgrade box I got 2 weeks ago...

        If you still don't believe me: the online help was missing from the DVD, so you have to download it [steinberg.de]...

        np: Autechre - Arch Carrier (LP5)

  • Not a ton of new features. The distributed DSP is interesting though.....

    It will be interesting to see how MOTU [motu.com] is going to respond with DP5 ;-)

    • Re:Not a lot of new features.... (Score:4, Informative)

      by alset_tech ( 683716 ) on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @03:44PM (#10386906) Homepage
      Not a ton of new features. The distributed DSP is interesting though.....

      I guess that means you didn't read the pages of online documentation of download the PDF, because I see many new features. Add to the list:

      A new drum synth, an FM synth, a component modeling synth, an amp modeling plugin, match EQ, linear EQ, new ring modulation, pitch correction, vocal modulation, multi-meter, spectrum analyzer, phase correction, AAC support, ID3 support, global tracks for tempo and key adjustments, automatic cross-fade, QWERTY MIDI control, DSP templates, external instrument tracks, Apple Loops support, etc etc etc.

      RTGDFA

  • Bundling Soft Synths (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Black-Man ( 198831 )
    I am a MOTU user myself, but the idea of bundling the soft synth's with the DAW software is intriging.

    I can see the value added with the bundling, but you would think customers would want to pick and choose their soft synths. I mean, does everyone want a B3 or a PPG or whatever emulator?

    • I can see the value added with the bundling, but you would think customers would want to pick and choose their soft synths. I mean, does everyone want a B3 or a PPG or whatever emulator?

      That's the way it used to be with emagic, but apple decided to simplify the product line, and now you get everything for the price the software alone used to cost. I personally aplaud them for doing so, as the software is easily worth $999 without the synths, and probably 3 times that with them all, not to mention that the

  • The UI looks quite complicated. I imagine that means there is a lot flexibility at your fingertips. I wonder, though, at the wisdom of making computer user interfaces attempt to mimick the traditional analog interfaces. Knobs that you turn, for example, are pretty stupid, yet the screenshots for Logic Pro show loads of such controls. With a wheel mouse i suppose turning the knobs is easy, but apple has only one button from the factory. Will this UI make it in the User Interface Hall of Shame?
    • I used to use Logic on Windows (when that was available). It's a grade A nightmare to use. Even the musicians I know struggle with it. It can do nearly everything you could possibly imagine, but it'll make you pay for it every step of the way. I never got very far without my head in the manual, which was a serious blow to my geek credibility (in front of pretty musician I was setting it up for I might add)....

    • Re:Very busy user interface (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      considering the basic processes involved in recording and mixing are essentially the same whether you do it using analog equipment or digital, it would be quite silly to reinvent to the wheel. note, however, that this statement does not say anything about the extra editing functionality you get with digital systems - it's about tracking and mixing...
    • I agree. The interfaces are usefull for those that are already familiar with the device. The digital version should also have a more intuitive computer interface to go allong with the traditional one.
    • The looks quite complicated because it is quite complicated. Logic is probably the most user unfriendly sequencing/audio program out there. It's also the most powerful. Because of this its the favorite of music technology geeks - think of it as the OpenBSD of music software.

      Very very steep learning curve. If you've never used a sequencing program before I'd give you a small chance of getting some sound out of the program within a few days. If you're familiar with another program (MOTU or Cubase) you can pr

    • Knobs that you turn, for example, are pretty stupid, yet the screenshots for Logic Pro show loads of such controls.

      You've obviously never used any pro audio software, as these types of knobs are found everywhere. The thing is, the knobs aren't manipulated with a circular motion, but a simple up down motion, and it's actually very intuitive, as well as taking up less space than a virtual fader.

      As for the wisdom of making interfaces that emulate hardware, that's an ongoing discussion in the audio softwa

    • Hmm. Say anything remotely anti-apple and the moderators jump all over you! Wow. That comment is most certainly not a troll.

      Thanks for those who talked about how the knob controls work (which, they are right in pointing out, is not immediately intuitive; there is a slight learning curve), rather than just blindly modding down.
    • " With a wheel mouse i suppose turning the knobs is easy, but apple has only one button from the factory."

      Oh, come on!

      You mean you are an experienced audio pro, making solid cash and cannot spend like $50 on a multibutton scroll wheel mouse?

      Moreover, since when are you using factory-supplied mice on a PC? They are crap! First thing anyone should do is trash them!

      On the other hand, when telling my mum over the phone to mail me some stuff, one-button mice would be a blessing.

      Of course, I have a trusty Lo

  • User-unfriendly Logic (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Psychic Burrito ( 611532 ) on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @02:50PM (#10386286)
    Does anybody know why Logic has to be this complicated to use? From the top of my head:
    - A second menu bar? Why? It is unintuitive, defeats Fitt's Law and is just plain awkward.
    - Init files: to have a standard way of organizing, you have to save a project in a certain way with a certain name to a certain folder which I always forget. Apple's GUI guide simply states "after an app starts up, make it appear like when you left it"
    - Often times, Logic doesn't redraw correctly.
    - Icons vary widely in quality: Some are Aqua-esque, other's are 8bit-like, and even others are pure b/w... ?!
    - Hundreds of icons that do not line up, or overlap each other... looks sloppy
    - Sometimes bouncing works, sometimes it does nothing
    - Timestreching crashes Logic from time to time

    These errors are all present in the (until now) most recent version of Logic. Emagic is aware of these problems: They have a buglist feature that all registered users get access to (I wonder why others don't... let me guess: because it might hold them off from buying it?).

    Anyway, my point is: Now Apple owns Logic, and this app still does not behave in the way Apple asks apps to behave... it's just silly...

    Anybody know why after all these years, Logic is still extremely unlogical (don't let me go into details about *these* things), yet they don't care?

    • Re:User-unfriendly Logic (Score:5, Insightful)

      by piecewise ( 169377 ) on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @02:55PM (#10386342) Journal
      You say Logic is this, this, this, and that.

      Are you referring to previous experiences with Logic - or do you say you've used the product that came out today and it's improved on none of these problems?

      • Re:User-unfriendly Logic (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I'm refering to the 1 year old product, which has been constantly "improved" by Emagic for more than 10 years since its inception.
    • I agree that Logic's UI needs work, but I think that's just its roots showing. It'll continue to improve with time - especially now that Apple's taking a more direct role in developing and distributing it. As for timestretch and bounce issues - I've experienced neither on my G5.
    • Have you looked at the screenshots on the site? Apple has clearly rewritten the interface from the ground up for Logic 7. It doesn't look like a bad PC port from the late 80's anymore, and it wouldn't surprise me if it shared some of the UI framework and back end with GarageBand.

      Big improvements take time. Emagic didn't care about UI. Apple does. Note also that Logic 7 is no longer branded Emagic; it is now a fully Apple-branded and -supported product.

      • Are there any full-size screenshots on the site anywhere? I've looked and can't find anything but tiny images (other than of the plugins.)

        From those tiny images it looks like the interface is only marginally updated from 6, which was (IMHO) only marginally updated from 5. It seems like, for the most part, it's the same old Logic 5 with some Photoshop layer effects thrown onto all the UI elements.

        I'm going to buy Logic 7 regardless, I'm just curious. The Logic UI never really bothered me that much anyway,

        • There is one big screenshot in the Apple PR-department: http://www.apple.com/pr/products/logic/logic.html [apple.com].

          It shows that none of the serious interface problems have been gone: The second menubar now looks a bit different, but it's still there. Bummer :-(

          By the way: has anybody else noticed that Apple has created oversized screenshots with twice the resolution for Apps like Logic and GarageBand? Either some graphic artist has painstakingly recreated every UI interface element with the double resolution or

          • Thanks for the link!

            Yeah, the UI looks like the same old Logic with some bevels and highlights thrown on. :)

            I've read that the underlying code for resolution independence is present in the 10.4 Developer Previews, so Apple could be using it for the screenshots.

  • Apple Loops ?? (Score:5, Funny)

    by IntergalacticWalrus ( 720648 ) on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @03:00PM (#10386390)
    I prefer Froot Loops. They also taste lemon, grape, orange, etc. instead of just apple.
  • For real time effects how is latency addressed on this? Logic does latency compensation for tracks during playback, but not on busses. What additional latency is caused by the network and syncing the nodes? Is this technology going to be just as painful for a large mix session as UAD-1 and Powercore?

    I do like that the nodes are unlimited license wise. However I am concerned about the actual use in a real production environment.

  • Apple already has a product out called Soundtrack [apple.com] which was meant to be their professional music creation/editing software package. Are they discontinuing it and replacing it with Logic?

    • Re:Is this a replacement? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Not a replacement. Soundtrack is a loop based program, like Acid Pro. Logic is for MIDI and audio production. While both might overlap each other, they are targetted at different markets.

    • Re:Is this a replacement? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by 33degrees ( 683256 ) <33degrees@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @05:25PM (#10388151)
      Not at all. Although you could do most of what you can do in soundtrack with logic, they're really aimed at different markets; Logic is very powerfull but has a steep learning curve, whereas soundtrack is ideal for people who aren't neccesarily musicians, but who need pro-level software for background music to their projects.

  • Infinite Loops! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Wingie ( 554272 ) <wlmui&amherst,edu> on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @03:14PM (#10386542) Homepage
    Notice how they advertised infinite loops [apple.com] as a feature. Seems like they're copying Microsoft advert strategies now...

  • Is this possible? (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by bhima ( 46039 )
    For quite sometime I have had this idea running about in my head...

    I am a huge Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Who fan and I really have enjoyed the audio files I've listened to. My issue is this most of the non-BBC audio are abridged and are mono.

    I would love to create a 5.1 Audio file of the original text of the books I own.

    .

    And I do love the voices in the Sherlock Holmes series

  • I wish I waited another couple of months before splashing for the Gold > Pro upgrade. Now I have to pay up the same amount if I want the spiffy new Guitar Amp.
    But hey, that's the name of the game I suppose. I hope there's some cheapo upgrade for suckers like me ;-)

    After recording a cd this week on an an ancient 5 year old mac running pro-tools under Mac OS 9 I can say this much : Logic really is a bargain at the price it's selling at (full AND upgrades) if you see what it offers (features and performanc
  • I recorded an album on my iBook with a TASCAM US-122 [tascam.com], and found that Apple's loops just aren't good enough. They sound clear, but they're just not that interesting. So, I got M-Audio's These Drums Are Loud [m-audio.com], and it really added a lot to my drum section (I don't have the space for a drum kit). Anyway, that's just a tip. I'd avoid the new Jam Packs without a lot of reviews and maybe some sample clips. Of course, if you want more than drums, that's another story.

  • Goodbye Emagic (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wheatwilliams ( 605974 ) on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @05:33PM (#10388261) Homepage
    Logic 7 is referred to as Apple Logic 7.

    All previous versions were referred to as Emagic Logic.

    Today the existing Emagic web site essentially went away (although there is some new information there).

    Emagic is a German company and Apple bought it two years ago and stopped its development of Windows products.

    So this release of Logic 7 represents the culmination of a huge realignment of music and audio software on the Mac platform, with profound implications for the market and third-party companies that make competing and complimentary products.

  • I am impressed. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Steve Cowan ( 525271 ) on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @05:57PM (#10388572) Journal
    Logic Pro 7 includes a ton of the stuff I've been waiting for, and when you consider all the bundled synths and effects it's actually a pretty damn good value.

    I've been using Logic since version 2, and I have watched it evolve from a do-everything MIDI sequencer to a full-fledged DAW suite.

    I'm frustrated to read so many negative comments from people who have obviously never used serious music software before, so I'm going to address a few things:

    First, this is very relevant to apple.slashdot.org because Apple owns Logic, and a lot of us have been very eager to see just what Apple was going to do with Logic for version 7.

    Is it anything like Fruity Loops or Garage Band? No, not really. You could probably pick up any of the above to create a piece of dance music, but Logic is the only one of the three that is wide open - if there's something a computer can do with audio, Logic Pro can probably do it.

    I doubt Cubase is more popular than Logic in the studio. Once you get used to working in Logic, Cubase feels like a toy. I'll admit I haven't used it in a few years so maybe it has improved.

    Somebody posted that Logic is unstable and doesn't draw right a lot of the time, but this has not been my experience - in fact version 6 has been rock-solid for me. I know that cracked copies of Logic tend to not work very well.

    A few people have said that there aren't a lot of new featured, but I downloaded the Logic Overview PDF from the Apple site, and I see TONS of stuff:

    • Distributed Audio Processing. Yes this is cool stuff, maybe other software does it too, but how scalable is it? Apple is claiming they can stuff 512 mono streams over a gigabit backbone. That's cool stuff, and makes a pretty neat case for a few XServe cluster nodes. (By the way, this appears to not be XGrid-based, as the nodes don't seem to share a single distributed task - instead you choose which node you want to work on which track from the Arrange window.)
    • Sculpture. Sorry but I don't know of any DAW app that includes a professional component modelling synth at any price. Emagic's synths have always sounded great to me, and I'm anxious to hear this.
    • Ultrabeat. A drum machine. Well here's some Fruity Loops functionality - as a matter of fact this looks like a kick-ass drum machine, something I've been anxious to see in Logic. It's got virtual analog, FM, component modelling and sample playback. The only drum machine I know of that's as versatile on paper is the $1100 USD MachineDrum [machinedrum.com], if ya wanna order one from Sweden.
    • EFM-1 - another synth - this one looks like a simple FM synth. I reserve judgement, but it's probably nice for metallic and buzzy sounds.
    • Inclusion of Garage Band Instruments is awesome, and was much-anticipated by Logic composers. Garage Band has a kick-ass sample set, and I'm sure they will find their way into my bread-and-butter work (commercials).
    • Apple Loops first appeared in SoundTrack, then in Garage Band. It looks as though it is actually possible to create Apple Loops, which means that Logic now has Ableton Live! / Acid - like functionality at last. Live is a lot cheaper at around $400, and Acid is Windows only, but they both lack the flexibility and plug-in set that Logic has.
    • Guitar Amp Pro is also pretty damn cool. People's jaws drop when they hear the amp simulation in Garage Band, so its inclusion (with the addition of a few extra parameters) in Logic is a no-brainer - it had to happen. Still, it's here, and I will be using it.
    • Other Effects like Ring Shifter, Vocal Transformer, Pitch Correction are fun effects to play with, and offer lots of opportunities for creative use.
    • New Mastering Plug-ins: Linear Phase EQ (I haven't heard it, but Logic's EQ's are already pretty good, and from its description this is a bona fide mastering EQ), and Match EQ (

    • Re:Broadcast Wave (Score:4, Informative)

      by flimflam ( 21332 ) on Wednesday September 29, 2004 @08:53PM (#10389937)
      Broadcast Wave is actually becoming the standard audio file format for the film industry. It is used in most of the new digital field recorders (Aaton Cantar [aaton.com], HHB PortaDrive [hhb.co.uk], Zaxcom Deva [zaxcom.com] and the various Fostex field recorders [fostexdvd.net].

      The support of this format in Logic is significant as it's the first Apple software to support it. Hopefully this means will see it soon in Final Cut soon.

    • Re:I am impressed. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TibbonZero ( 571809 )
      I like Logic in alot of ways, but I really hope that they have fixed the unholy combination of the G5s, OS X, Logic, and Digidesign (TDM) hardware. From what I have seen this is nothing but crash crash boom! If that indeed does work well, with this new distributed audio, I might have to switch from Protools to Logic. My only other reservation with logic, is that it's still not 100% easy to swap drives with Protools users. I simply love protools for the fact that I can next day (or Digitransfer... which is

  • /.ness (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mirko ( 198274 )
    Loads of comments here.
    Mostly trolls or flamebait... a few people who suggest sx3, reason or Live are better...
    I am surprised to be the only one asking about:
    • when will the update be available ?
    • is the Gb-ethernet mandatory in order to use the xgrid functionality or will it run but not as quickly ?
    • were there main engines updates besides the xgrid stuff ?
    • does the update take mLan further into account or is this supposed to be 100% handled by the system ?
    • will the update dvd also contain new Apple Loops an

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