Orson Scott Card Reviews Everything 552
H_Fisher writes "Orson Scott Card, author of sci-fi classic Ender's Game and many other novels and stories, has posted his review of the much-discussed Joss Whedon film Serenity (which opened at #2 in the US box office this past weekend). Among other things, Card has this to say about Serenity: 'Those of you who know my work at all know about Ender's Game. I jealously protected the movie rights to Ender's Game so that it would not be filmed until it could be done right ... I'll tell you this right now: If Ender's Game can't be this kind of movie, and this good a movie, then I want it never to be made.'" With praise for Full House, Friends, Being John Malkovich, and Lost to boot.
reevers (Score:2, Insightful)
Now that the movie is out (Score:2, Insightful)
Let me ask again. Can we pleeeeeeeaaaaeeeaaaze take the serenity poll down and replace it with something else?
You know... (Score:5, Insightful)
However as a writer I have alot of respect for his work and his ability to tell an interesting and complex story. Enders Game and The Tales of Alvin Maker are great stories and series in and of themselves and I think it's nice to see someone who sticks to their guns for a change and won't let their movie be utterly butchered... like ULG's Wizard of Earthsea, that was so sad.
That is about the absolute best review I've ever seen for any movie and it's enough to make me go see the movie several days sooner than I had planned... I'm really looking forward to seeing this movie now.
Hopefully OSC can get someone to make Ender's Game the right way, hell I'd even settle for the Tales of Alvin Maker... (speaking of which there is an MMORPG coming out based on that-- same people who did A Tale in the Desert.)
well respected author in my book (Score:0, Insightful)
enders game is directed to teenagers like myself but the books that follow such as xenocide and children of the mind are definitely not something (most) people my age (14) can comprehend and enjoy. nonetheless they are still my favorite books
Whoa.. so when's it coming back to TV then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:reevers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:reevers (Score:2, Insightful)
I guess some people might view the following as a spoiler, and thus are forewarned.
In Firefly, an individual who was the sole survivor of a Reaver attack starts becoming a Reaver due to being driven crazy / what he has witnessed / etc. In the film, the Reavers are the way they are due to chemically induced brain changes (basically). The time period between the creation of the Reavers and the events in the film is short enough that they haven't had to deal with issues like 'how do they have babies?'.
What I don't understand is why they don't eat each other, but they're not supposed to be entirely logical, you know?
How is "Being John Malkovich" scifi? (Score:1, Insightful)
Card's Review was dead-On (Score:3, Insightful)
I loved Serenity, it was a great movie, its about the story, take it for what its the story and what the story is saying. Is it high cinema, NO it not goona win any awards for its camera work. Thats what card is saying too, its about the story and the characters in the story. I also agress if Ender's game can't be made at least this good, then its not worth making.
I am sure that one of the many K5 cross overs will undoubtedly meantion the "Card is an Asshat" Story overthere...Personally I like the guy who wrote it for is fiction, but take is review of Card with a pound of Salt if you like over there and read it....
Re:Whoa.. so when's it coming back to TV then? (Score:3, Insightful)
Serenity is a movie with a $40 million budget (which means that its advertising budget was probably around $20-25 million) - this means that they spent $60-65 million on a film that earned $10 million its opening weekend.
You guys better buy that DVD.
Re:Glad he liked it. (Score:1, Insightful)
Given OSC's political views, I think it can pretty safely be said that the guy is basically a fascist sympathesizer or something else equally distasteful.
FWIW, you could check out Wiki on "Ender's Game" here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_game [wikipedia.org]
What's interesting is that there are many parallels between Hitler and Ender, watered down only by the fact that Card carefully constructed the story so as to ameliorate Ender's personal culpability - but when you think about it, the story is so contrived as to make that possibility somewhat implausible even within the context of a rather far out sci-fi story.
Read Maps in a Mirror (Score:5, Insightful)
diverse) get his short story anthology Maps in a Mirror.
It's also annotated, so it gives you a great peek into
his mind and how/why he writes certain stories. That
really shows off the brilliance of OSC as a writer.
Also, if you are or want to be a writer yourself (rather
than a typical
from OSC. His book on how to write SciFi is the best
on that topic. He also provides a lot of help for
writers on his website.
Really, what makes OSC great is perhaps not any particular
work, but rather his grasp of people, and that great
stories must be about the characters. Otherwise all you
have is a literary carchase and explosions, just special
effects with no meat.
Oh, and if the Full House thing at the end of the review
puzzles you, then you just haven't read enough of his
reviews to understand his sense of humor, or that he
is a devoted parent and thus sometimes cares about things
that may seem quite corny to adults.
Re:Respect? nope gone.. (Score:2, Insightful)
However, a good portion of his work is exceptional. Ender's Game really is a must read, even if the man enjoyed Friends, or thinks the gays will destroy society, or whatever it is he's going on about now.
A reality check (Score:3, Insightful)
Just a warning but it only did $10.1 million of business against no real competition in a Hollywood dead period. So folks better fill the seats and get the word out or this franchise will pull a Hindenburg. The two major Hollywood seasons are Memorial Day to Labor Day (the Summer Blockbuster months) and Thanksgiving to the Oscars (where Academy Award winners and big holiday films are given a big push. Before Jaws this was the only money period in cinema). September just up to Thanksgiving is a dead period: Hollywood release B features, also rans and things that have been rotting on the shelves. Of course this lack of competition has lead to a surprise breakout every few years and if Serenity can get a good word of mouth campaign to keep up interest then it'll stay solvent.
Re:Respect? nope gone.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Like most, the first book of his I read was Ender's Game. It isn't a bad book. But it isn't great, either. Everything in it has been done before, by better writers. Its popularity is due mostly to the "heroic geeky kid beats the adults and saves the world" theme, much like Harry Potter. The other couple books of his I've read seem pretty much the same.
Like I said, it's not really bad. I've got dozens of science fiction books on my shelves churned out by various writers that may not be great literature, but are still a fun afternoon read. Ender's Game should be one of them.
However, in the introduction to Ender's Game, he pretty much claimed to have invented the idea of wargames in the future. This "review" is pretty much just an excuse to talk about how great his book could be if made into a movie. This kind of nonsense leaves me with something of a bad taste in my mouth.
Re:Whoa.. so when's it coming back to TV then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Firefly had the misfortune of being released at a very odd time for TV, where shows were commonly cancelled after even a few episodes failed to attract mainstream attention. This was during the "reality TV" fad and was a common fate for shows at the time.
Studio execs have now realized that it takes time for a series to develop an audience, and a good show will do well in DVD sales even if the viewing audience is relatively small. As a result we are seeing more interesting and nuanced shows, with much less "reality TV" game shows.
Ender's Game movie already in the works... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ender's Game [imdb.com] is slated for 2007, directed by Wolfgang Peterson [imdb.com] and with a screenplay by Michael Dougherty [imdb.com]. The IMDB report on the movie provides very little information, except that it was certainly in the works before the Serenity movie was publicized.
Dougherty doesn't have any high-quality screenplays under his belt (just X2, which was a fun movie, but not the greatest screenplay, and I would think Card agrees) ... does Card retain enough control to carry through with the above claim?
Full House? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Whoa.. so when's it coming back to TV then? (Score:3, Insightful)
Imagine if they showed Desperate Housewives or Lost in the order they showed Firefly.
Re:I was with him... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Just like Star Trek? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you want to make money, you cater to your audience who mostly didn't know much. I loved the movie and have never seen a Firefly episode in its entirety. My guess is it does OK but not great at the box office but sells DVD's like nobody's business.
Re:Glad he liked it. (Score:5, Insightful)
I also disagree with his point of view on the whole "Gay" marriage thing. My opinion differs, it doesn't however make me detest him as a person and I still read and enjoy his books. He is a Religious Family man and his views of the world stage are tinted by that fact. He beleives it is the role of our government to uphold some of his ideals. I think its the role of the governemnt to uphold some of mine too, they in someways differ form his, but it is what it is.
We even have a few incommon, for instance he believes that he has the right to rip music to MP3 just like I do.
Many people on the site do not even dig that far into the man however. They respect him as the writer of Ender's Game one of the greatest sci-fi novels ever published. They do not need or want to know anything more than that about him. And thats fine too!
The writer of Ender's Game likes Serenity...and thats good enough for them. I don't think this in anyway contributes to or shows any decay of the site.
OSC doesn't really like Sci-Fi (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem with sci-fi movies may be the lack of real drama and relationships, but that doesn't make movies which excel on those two points any more sci-fi.
Re:Respect? nope gone.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I've never met the man, so I can't address that specifically. However, any author whose first novel wins both the Hugo and Nebula awards -- and then goes on to do that again the very next year with the sequel (Speaker for the Dead), certainly has a right to at least some of that ego.
Re:It was not a bad movie... (Score:4, Insightful)
The main reason is that the camera wasn't afraid of holding a shot for a long time in a battle sequence. Since Gladiator, every big budget film has felt the need to feel 'gritty' by playing with framerates, shaking the hell out of the camera and flitting between viewpoints like mad. It has been making things all but unwatchable. I "watched" half of the Bourne Supremacy without looking at the screen simply because they wouldn't hold a shot long enough to let you get your bearings and would shake the hell out of it just to keep things edgy.
Sure Joss is a huge fan of the two-camera over-the-shoulder dialog sequences, but the simple camera work in that case is effective and does not distract from the dialog, which is his real strong suit.
Re:well respected author in my book (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not so well-respected outside sci-fi (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Glad he liked it. (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as Stilson and the other jerk he killed in self defense, they got justice -- even if you think their punishment was too harsh, they're definitely the guilty parties. This isn't the questionable morality found in a drunk driver's excuse for killing a bicyclist. It's not a matter of Ender's intent being used as an excuse -- even though it's the only way he can justify it to himself. The truth is that they chose to enter a battle to the death with him, fully expecting to kill him, rather than to be killed by him.
Sorry, theorize all you want, but Ender fails to be eqivelant in any way to Hitler.
Re:reevers (Score:3, Insightful)
* Book's background: Mal clearly didn't know it at the time of the movie, so it's not likely to be resolved except possibly through external reference.
* Simon going from prim and proper coward to in-person rescuer and rival alpha male (i.e., he went from aggressive before the series, to weak in the series, to aggressive). During the series, Simon was afraid to touch a weapon, did whatever Mal told him (even when it put River in danger), etc. Clearly there has been a change in the downtime for him to gain self confidence, but *he* rescued River from the facility? And since Simon was outright being given the tour, why did he seem so unknowing of what happened to her during the series?
* Book's becoming sickly-looking, Kaylee's weight loss (oh, come on! Making her like a normal person was one of the draws of the series)
* Multiple methods of reaver creation (gas vs. watching)?
* The "bad guys" seeming completely different (not a single craft like the Dortmunder, which is what every alliance craft looked like in the series; the prime river-hunters (the Blue Man Group) seemingly having nothing to do with a hunt for her that lets thousands see her; etc.
The universe itself has a number of problems that they choose not to address:
* Several dozen planets in the habitable zone with earthlike gravity. In the series, there was enough vagueness that it could be partly resolved by being a star cluster (like Alpha Centauri), but in the movie, they claim that it's a single star system.
* No FTL... but they can control gravity? (artificial gravity onboard ships, "grav boot" being a critical part of the engine, etc). The main reason for avoiding FTL is that gravity control is a rather unrealistic proposal, physics-wise. If you can control gravity, you should be able to do FTL. Furthermore, their gravity control even works when other parts of the engine, and even life support, don't (i.e., Out Of Gas)?
* Even the most dirt-poor planet is terraformed? Terraforming requires staggeringly large amounts of industry on the surface; even the most effective greenhouse gasses need to be produced in many-teratonnes-per-year quantities to warm a planet that's too cold, and that's one of the easiest terraforming tasks you could have. One could perhaps explain this by assuming that there are parts of each of the planets that are industrialized, or all of this huge infrastructure was lifted off, but that can be hard to buy.
* Minor: What good is assigning a specific date to Firefly once you factor relativity into the trip to the other star and the star's motion relative to the sun? Are their years constantly warping by various factors? (this is ignoring the fact that Earth years aren't going to be comparable to the year of any particular Firefly-universe planet).
Lets not even get into psychics ("We live in a space ship, dear.") These are just a couple things that jump to mind. Firefly is "soft sci-fi", in that sci-fi is just really the background for the more important character and plot elements to interact on. Personally, I'd prefer that they have defined their universe a bit more solidly before they started; if I had some magical wish-granting planks to use on the series, I'd ask for that. Nonetheless, Firefly/Serenity is a jewel.
Re:well respected author in my book (Score:4, Insightful)
Does the world you live in have the same effect on you? The vast majority of the world is religious or has religious beliefs, so discounting or ignoring religion in any piece of literature is to ignore a fundamental foundation of society.
While Card inserts religious themes into lots of his works, it's not usually the overriding message or story (with exceptions).
--trb
Re:Respect? nope gone.. (Score:4, Insightful)
1.) "Orson Scott Card is a great writer. Too bad he's such a nut."
2.) "I used to love Orson Scott Card until I read some of his political essays. Now I refuse to read anything he writes."
3.) "Orson Scott Card is overrated. I've never thought he was any good. No, really!"
Frankly, it's tiresome, and it's rare to find anyone who will take on his point of view with a real argument before dismissing him outright. The essay about "Innocent Genocide" that's floating around this discussion is an unusually intelligent exception, and even that spends its time trying to prove that Card is saying something specific without refuting it in any meaningful way. It's taken as a given that once Card's "true" meaning is known, the reader will automatically reject that meaning as false or dangerous.
Personally, I think Harlan Ellison is a horse's ass, but I don't pop up in
Indeed! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Respect? nope gone.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:OSC -- Just say No (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Glad he liked it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ender's game is not great SF (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention, he and his siblings are such geniuses and so above the mass of humanity that his brother is able to easily conquer the world by the sheer power of his intellect. It's heady stuff for a scholastically over-average kid who fancies himself smarter than his peers. That's why Ender's Game is popular, not because it has any value as SF. I wouldn't trust kids to understand the difference between the twisted world of the book and reality.
See this article from John Kessel [ncsu.edu] for more extended criticism among these lines.
Re:bashing muslims? (Score:3, Insightful)
It may have little to do with it.
But when a religious person discusses another, competing religion, it's fair to say that his religion has something to do with his views.
Re:Ender's game is not great SF (Score:5, Insightful)
Several years ago, Slashdot's conversations about OSC were generally quite positive. Now you can guarantee that any OSC discussion will contain the following elements:
1) Ender's Game is a Nazi-loving revenge saga. This is a recent argument based on a particular review from an OSC critic. Disciples of this "received" idea now push it as gospel truth.
2) OSC is a homophobe because he disagrees with the gay lifestyle and with gay marriage, even after science has proven that these things are perfectly normal.
3) I hate OSC, but I still think his books are pretty good.
4) I used to love Ender's Game, but now that I'm older and smarter, I find that I hate it because it's actually quite shallow. People who still like it are nostalgics.
5) OSC is a crazy mormon (followed by a list of crazy things about mormonism). Usually followed up by a post redirecting the interested and "uneducated" reader to any number of anti-mormon sites.
6) General fear and loathing of OSC and his "political" ideals. This is followed by a good dose of anti-right-wing hate talk.
7) Posts from OSC apologists (hi!) interspersed throughout the discussion.
8) OSC is trying to brainwash us with his books and I resent it.
Anyone can say that OSC is a novice hack. Well, I've read several of those other SF novelists mentioned in the parent post, whose books I also enjoy. I find that, lacking the anti-OSC bigotry, it is difficult for me to categorize OSC as a novice hack. Ender's Game is an award winning SF novel and was once quite well-regarded by those very deeply interested in the genre.
I find that OSC is quite outspoken, but nowhere near the bigot that his critics are.
Re:Glad he liked it. (Score:3, Insightful)
While the (strained) comparisons between Ender and Hitler might be quasi-justifiable within the strict context of book 1, the other three Ender books go a long way in further establishing Ender's (adult) character, and in differentiating him from a genocidal sociopath like Hitler.
As much as I disagree with many of Card's religious and political views, I can't shake the feeling that the Ender/Hitler comparison is propaganda put together by people who are deeply offended and/or threatened by his religio-political stance.
And whether they are justified in that feeling or not, it reeks of an attempt at indirect social censorship. (Censorhip being, ironically, something to which the same people supposedly stand diametrically opposed.) Don't want people to hear what someone has to say? Slap a stigma on his writing, making it scary for anyone to identify with anything he says. And what better stigma than Hitler?
Bleh. Words cannot express how much I hate politics. It works exactly opposite to the scientific ideal. Decisions are not made by debating over the advantages put forth by each party of their chosen approach. Rather, they are made by debating over who has done the best job of demonizing their opponent.
Re:Ender's game is not great SF (Score:2, Insightful)
If you're implying the only reason I am criticizing ender's game is because of that article, you're dead wrong. Simple as that.
And FWIW I thought clarke's "3001" was a pile of doggie poo also. If something is shit, I call it like I see it. I'm so terribly sorry if that offends you, but shit is shit.
I care not if OSC is a blathering idiot, but a good writer he most definitely is not -- regardless of his political/economic/sociological leanings.
ender's game won awards, big deal. those were dry years and slim pickings. ender's game was the least shit of the piles of shit at the time. but it still doesn't mean ender's game isn't shit.
Re:Ender's game is not great SF (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Glad he liked it. (Score:5, Insightful)
First, OSC may have quite different political ideas than you. You may think he's a crappy writer. You may think he has bad breath.
But you (and the GP) didn't say any of those things. You said *he's insane*.
Now, think for a moment. You know how sometimes you hear about how what's wrong with America is how we demonize people who don't agree with us? About how far political discourse has fallen, because instead of talking about ideas, all we do is call each other names? About how the few voices of reason get drowned out by all the voices shrieking hate?
Well, now consider this: I bet, when you do, it never occurs to you that they're talking about *you*.
OSC's views are, as far as I can tell, well within conservative mainstream. You may *disagree* with them, but that doesn't mean they're extreme, or that he's "batshit insane." Calling them "batshit insane" doesn't say anything about OSC -- if anything, it tells us about *you*, and how seriously we should take anything you say.
Understand? I think gun control advocates, for example, are wrong and misguided. But I don't think they're "batshit insane."
My second thought, to the moderators: I just wanted to point out that you took a post that said, essentially, "Me too," and modded it INFORMATIVE. Nice.
- Alaska Jack
Re:Glad he liked it. (Score:3, Insightful)
I actually find that very very scary.
The reality is that the underlying theme of the book, that intent makes makes all the difference in measuring good and evil, that an otherwise "good" person may be obligated to commit horrible deeds in the name of the greater good... That's the message that matters, because that's the position that our people in uniform have routinely found themselves in throughout our history.
Uhu, and that is the VERY THING the article objects to, the message that you are good and innocent while simultanously killing. Come on, like the nazis and all other killers through history wasn't justifying what they were doing the same way. "Sure, all this stuff is distasteful, but we are doing it for the greater good...". And the book constantly paint the opponents as completely evil with no redeeming qualities and no motivations of their own, making it a very easy choice to kill them. Very convenient don't you think?
I prefer this quote from Gandhi:
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
Re:well respected author in my book (Score:2, Insightful)
And then there's controlled breeding of animals other than human. Is there any difference?
No. Really. Is there? Is either 'right' ?
It's a great essay question for folks.