Mystery Australian Big Cat Shot 421
mugley writes "The Sunday Herald Sun is running a story about the shooting of a large cat, believed to be a leopard or puma, in the Gippsland region of Victoria, Australia. Alien big cats have long been a topic of interest for cryptozoologists (and more recently, Lance Henriksen and his credit card) - is this the first real evidence of their existence?" From the article: "Mike Williams, a representative of the Centre for Fortean Zoology, a body that researches mysterious or out-of-place animals, said he believed it was concrete evidence that big cats are on the loose in Australia. Hundreds of sightings have been reported over the years and a leaked government document revealed 59 sightings had been reported in Gippsland between 1998 and 2001. The cats are said to be descendants of animals that either escaped from zoos or circuses or were released by US airmen who kept them as mascots while stationed in Australia in World War II. "
Hm summary sun (Score:5, Informative)
No , not at all . There have been numerous examples found over the years . As the article saysWhat is interesting is the cats origin , Is it a pure puma or has it interbred with other escaped cats in the bush
Re:I'm sorry, but.. (Score:2, Informative)
Well, yes the media will promote anything wacky, but is it any different in any other western country?
On the other hand, the culling of any non-native species, such as wild cats, that kill birds and disrupt the food supply of native predators, is generally encouraged. Many people here would even like to see domestic cats eradicated.
Re:First, let's kill it... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I'm sorry, but.. (Score:5, Informative)
For all you know, this man is a high genius who works for the CSIRO and actually CARES about Australian native animals. You are judging a book by its cover. In fact, this man is a retired engineer. What makes him a "redneck"? A beard? A gun? Warm clothing? A hunter? Are you a fucking American? If so, guess what, your president fits this description nicely. At least this guy has not also put thousands of innocent humans to death.
Wild predators in an environment where they do not belong, do MASSIVE damage to native animals which are not in any way equiped with natural means of defence. Those native animals BECOME DECIMATED. Even wild cats from domestic bloodlines become larger killing machines. Rabbits, horses, pigs, cats and dogs have all caused massive damage to Australian native animals, to the point of extinction. We even have wild camels roaming about, but thankfully their softer padded feet do much less damage than those of horses.
A very intelligent electroncs engineer I once worked with, had a job on the side bow hunting ferral animals for New South Wales Parks and Wildlife. Bow hunting being prefered in national parks for people specifically allowed to cull these problem animals.
You are ignorant to somehow just cast judgement on this man because he has killed what you describe as "random wild animals". If this is indeed a "big cat" and it was obvious to him, then on moral grounds he SHOULD SHOOT IT. That is no "random" animal. I say this as a conservationist and vegetarian (moral reasons) of more than 20 years.
Not too hard to tell what this is (Score:5, Informative)
The rugged paws and the thick furry tail coupled with black color makes it fairly obvious that this is a puma. This is also plausible because pumas has a history of being used as pets.
I can't see anything wrong with the picture. You can see both the left and right front paws, and a severed head. The anatomy seems correct to me.
The head looks like that because when you're hunting, you don't use full metal jacket, nor do you usually use hollow point. You use very heavy and expanding lead-point bullets.
These bullets has a thin metal jacket and a hole in the nose, and they are filled with lead. On impact with an animal the nose of the bullet expands voilently and creates something similar to an explosion (way more powerful than any hollow point). As mentioned, the lead makes these bullets very heavy and they sport a massive amount of energy. They are made for two purposes: to kill and to kill as fast as possible.
After the impact and immediate expansion the bullet remains partly intact and can easily travel through the rest of the animal, creating even more damage.
Here's a picture of one of the most commonly used lead points, Nosler Partition: http://www.nosler.com/images/partition.jpeg [nosler.com].
Lead point bullets creates awfully lot of damage to tissue, and it doesn't surprise me one bit that the head was so severed. Even with a .222/3/* you can get that kind damage with the right bullet. I assume the hunter was using .308 or .30-06 or larger ammunition, which can effectively cut a small sized human in two when hit from the right angle with the right bullet.
If you watch hunting videos where they have zoomed in on the animals they shoot, you can often see a thick red mist at the impact of the bullet. In most cases, if it was a hit in the lung/heart region, the animals drops dead on the spot. That would *never* have happened with FMJ or hollow point.
Not a cat of any species (Score:1, Informative)
Anyway, what i know from speaking with cryptozoologists (and not just hobbyists, i mean the ones who have spent 30 years full time in the crazy habit):
-Native to Southern East coast, with absolutely zero sightings North of the Blue Mountains or West of Forbes
-Most commonly sighted in Gippsland, Victoria (and videotaped) and Lithgow, New South Wales (and videotaped (also where i was born))
-Sightings have increased as drought conditions worsen, with the sighting closest to Sydney taking place in Kenthurst (semi-rural area where i went to highschool) where a young man was "attacked" and left with ragged clawmarks on his forearms
-Looks more like a dog than a panther, tail extends horizontally, trots rather than slinks
-Unlike a cat, claws do not retract while it is walking (as evidenced in footprints)
-Can make hefty leaps, capable of dragging a sheep carcass into a tree
-Documented report of a close encounter with a police officer in a car, who radioed the sighting as it occured. The event was recorded, complete with an incredibly freaky roar
I'm an avid, experienced camper/hiker. You will not see most Australian wildlife unless it doesnt care that you see it, or you are very, very good at finding it. I can honestly say that having camped out at Newnes (forests of Blue Mountains out past Lithgow), you could pass within two meters of something the reported size of these things, be looking in its direction, and not even see it. There are parts of the refinery ruins up there that you dont notice until you are literally standing on top of them.
These things (if they are real) could evade capture and documentation for another several hundred years, no sweat. Theyre probably already an endangered species, but with so much totally uninhabited land to hide in, theyre not under much threat
Re-reading that, i feel i should also point out that i was born in Lithgow, a tiny coal mining town, but moved to suburban Sydney as a small child. Kenthurst is on the fringes between suburban and rural, meaning there are people who live there who dont work on farms, but not many. The two are several hours of driving apart, and even Kenthurst is half an hour in light traffic from my current location (the Hills district). Children growing up in Lithgow would never, ever go to school in Kenthurst, so the only reason there would have been sightings this far east would be if the creatures are being forced by the drought to find easier pickings, such as the farms of Kenthurst. I'm not saying i beleive we have a native big cat population, but i find this to be the most likely explanation.
Re:I'm sorry, but.. (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, I long for the day when Steve becomes croc lunch. He is a fucktard of the highest order. And Russel Crowe is NOT Australian. He is a New Zealander.
I should add that in Australia we don't exactly 'rough it' you might note that we have the highest number of cities in the top 10 most liveable cities in the world according to The Economist.
We are also just as educated as the USA. In fact, I've seen stats from various sources that show Australians as being on average slightly higher educated than the USA per capita.
Re:HEY LOOK: A RARE AND MAGNIFICENT ANIMAL!!! (Score:1, Informative)
Highly unlikely it charged him; I would treat that claim with even more sceptism than the basic big cat story.
Top/apex predators [wikipedia.org] are conditioned by instinct and experience to treat none prey animals with extreme caution/respect. Natural selection favours those that don't pick a fight unless absolutely necessary for survival.
Re:Americans, again... (Score:2, Informative)
To the contrary, anyone who has studied WWII knows that the soviets were badly strapped and that they may have been defeated in the summer of 1942 were it not for the 5,000 tanks, 7,000 aircraft, countless vehicles and 4 million tons of suppplies delivered from the U.S. to the Arctic ports and through the Persian Gulf.
Re:First, let's kill it... (Score:4, Informative)
I can believe the damage. I grew up hunting in North Dakota, and packed a 30-06 for many years. Came across a coyote, was relatively close, and took a shot when it was running away with ammo I used for elk/moose. The damage took the head off in a similar fashion, but I was shooting from behind rather than the thing charging me. Most shots hitting the body won't cause that type of damage! Granted, the insides are a mess - but in 22 years of hunting, every one in the group was stunned (and making cracks about using explosive rounds).
Re:Not too hard to tell what this is (Score:3, Informative)
there is a reason the 223 is being dropped by the military
it is a caliber that mostly wounds, not kills
the most powerful load available for a 223 can do no such thing, and even a 30-06 would have a tough time severing a spinal cord AND blowing the rest of the head off
need we be reminded that cats have amazingly powerful necks because it is after all, their killing weapon. the claws just help them hang on...
and the "varmint" videos the other guy posted..well, a prairie dog is the size of that pumas paw
also, if you watch the maximum carnage snippet, there are pieces flying through the air, but in most cases the prarie dog is largely intact
Re:On Meeting Big Cats (Score:3, Informative)
Apparently they do sometimes. [tchester.org]
Ballistics (Score:1, Informative)
There is a lot of BS about terminal ballistics out there because of Hollywood, videogames, and little boys. Don't think you know about it until you've seen it.