Apple Sued Over Potential Hearing Loss

freaktheclown writes "A man is suing Apple, claiming that the iPod can cause hearing loss for those who use it." From the article: "The iPod players are 'inherently defective in design and are not sufficiently adorned with adequate warnings regarding the likelihood of hearing loss,' according to the complaint, filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in San Jose, Calif., on behalf of John Kiel Patterson of Louisiana. The suit, which Patterson wants certified as a class-action, seeks compensation for unspecified damages and upgrades that will make iPods safer."

Louder please!

[antonpiatek]

Actually I want my iPod to go louder.

If I have a big pair of earphones on, then the iPod doesn't really have enough power to drive them. I have heard a rumor that a US firmware (as opposed to EU) will give it more volume (apparently the EU has a law that forces output to be capped at a *safe* level), but I have been unable to find any regional firmware at all.

Re:Louder please!

[rmpotter]

...or perhaps you want it to be louder because you _already_ have hearing loss. Have you had your hearing checked lately?

Re:Playing Devil's Advocate...

[QuietLagoon]

Even if you put the noise level REALLY low you could get hearing impaired...

Think about that statement for a minute, then explain it to me once again, answering the following question: how can REALLY low noise impair your hearing? Be specific, make sure you talk about the decibel level at which that REALLY low noise can impair your hearing.

Re:It was his choice.

[grub]

It sounds all too like the person who burgled and empty house and fell though the rotten floor boards. Then he sued.

The place I was working at 20 years ago (I know the time as I was working there when Challenger happened) had a burgler come through an air conditioning duct. He dropped in the darkness to the floor but caught one foot on a desk (ouch). He snapped his ankle. To make a long story short, he sued the company for not having decent night lighting and won a small amount of cash.

Permanent hearing loss

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got damage in my right ear that seems to be permanent. I'm 34, been going out all my life, big walkman user too. I had normal hearing for my age/sex. Then I went out last week and went to a tribute band that didn't do a sound check. The sound was a horrible blare, and since then I have a permanent new rattling/ringing in my right ear. Those bozos must have been pumping out massive amounts of sound at particular frequencies because of the distortion that wouldn't be there if there was no distortion, even if it was twice as loud.

So my theory is that distortion is more a culprit than overall loudness. There is a mechanical AGC system in the ear that works pretty well, but when you assault it with extra powerful narrow frequency bands, that's what destroys hearing. Because the AGC works with the overall loudness, a single frequency with 10x the power of the overall loudness = damage.

So please try to make sure you are listening to a well-recorded, well-encoded song with good headphones on an amplifier that is nowhere near its limits.

ummm

[szembek]

According to the article, all ipods actually come with a warning specifically warning users that they may cause hearing loss:

The Cupertino-based company ships a warning with each iPod that cautions "permanent hearing loss may occur if earphones or headphones are used at high volume."

In my opinion this absolutely, beyond belief, nullifies any claim this man may have even thought he had.

Re:Playing Devil's Advocate...

[88NoSoup4U88]

Er, I remember buying my walkman in the early 90's, and it had earbuds: It's not something that got introduced, or even made popular, by the iPod.

I think the guy has no case as he done it to himself: Limiting the (maximal) volume of the iPod, would also limit people with hearing disabilities from using it.

The guy is just an asshat for not having common sense: Hell, I could go around sueing the several clubs I visited in my teenyears, as the speakers certainly caused hearing loss... Then again, it was my -own- decision to go to those clubs... and stand in from of those speakers.

Re:Sure that sounds good and all, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Some times I think I went to bed last night in one timeline. A timeline where normal, common sense prevails. Yet, somehow I've woken up in another timeline. One where everything is slightly off kilter.

I get this feeling to. Did it happen around election time in the year 2000?

Re:Playing Devil's Advocate...

[TheRaven64]

I think the guy has no case as he done it to himself: Limiting the (maximal) volume of the iPod, would also limit people with hearing disabilities from using it.

Which, interestingly[1], is why the volume goes so high in the first place. Steve Jobs is partially deaf, and he tested the iPod before it was released.

[1] Or not. Mods, you decide.

Re:Playing Devil's Advocate...

[Tim C]

In the early days headphones sat on the side of your head and let in other noise. However, with the IPod ear buds fit 100% percent into your ear.

Oh don't be ridiculous - I was using in the ear 'phones like that years before the iPod was available.

Re:Playing Devil's Advocate...

[Anonymous Coward]

He's talking (I think) about the sounds made by the earbuds themselves, when you touch them, pull them out, poke them with a fork, etc... Ever Heard that "pop" when you pull them out? That's real loud, so close.

They seal so well that those sounds are vastly amplified. I wear the rubbery-ended shure (i think) earbuds, and when I pull them out I'm very careful to break the airtight seal first by squeezing them. That popping sound really hurts, and I can see how it could damage your ears, and also how it can be contrued as a design defect. Like shoes that cut your skin if you don't remove the VERY carefully. Could you sue for that?

But Playing next to loud drummers for 15 years is what's doing in MY ears.

Examples of Personal Responsibility

[doublem]

This is why my Mother-in-Law brings ear plugs to concerts and movies, so if it's too loud for her, she can put them in. That way, she's accepting personal responsibility for her hearing, and NOT trying to shift the responsibility onto anyone else.

She even brings enough for everybody.

When I got my iPod, I bought a pair of high end earphones form Shure. With them, I'm very comfortable listening at much lower volumes than with a regular pair of ear buds or headphones.

It's all about taking care of your own body, instead of whining like a spoiled little brat demeaning everyone else do it for you.

What's next, some spoiled little mamma's boy going to sue McDonnalds for making him fat, as if any reasonable person with an IQ above 50 should realize fast fod is BAD for them?

Oh wait... Nevermind.

get the iDuctTape out my head is about to explode

[Loquax]

If you have ever had a loved one truly hurt by a defective product this case should anger you, but I am glad that America is a country that uses courts as a means of consumer protection as opposed to excessive government regulation. It really is almost a binary choice. Either you have the government aggressively regulate everything from paper clips to chainsaws or you allow aggrieved parties to bring suit against each other. The advantage that a court has is that 12 citizens that make the decision to award "victims." I've lived in places in Europe where there was a ministry office that covered whatever product was on the market and these "philosopher king" bureaucrat could issue whatever edict that they wanted. I remember specifically hearing that there was a Norwegian law on the books regulating the color of cheese wax (this could have been a joke though). Sure we do this to a large extent in the US. The FDA really acted WAY out of line when they outlawed Ma-Huang (ephedrine) because a couple of idiots ate it like candy, but take a look at what the EU proposes to regulate and you soon get the idea that Europe would rather have the state act like a nanny and shoo consumers away from making their own choices.

kill the lawyers

[scharkalvin]

At one time people took responsibility for their own actions and products were MUCH more dangerous.
The lawyers will argue that by bringing up all the product lawsuits we now have safer cars, and
other products. But lawsuits are still brought against companies whose products are missused by
stupid people. There has to be a limit some where.

ALL headphones, ear buds or over the ear types, can cause hearing damage by delivering a sound level
that's too high. Listening with speakers can cause the same damage too (while peeling the paint
off the walls and cracking the windows). I suppose a form of active feedback could be added to
headphones with a transducer to measure the sound level being delivered to the ear and back off the
volume before it reaches the danger point. Would consumers buy such a product? (that would be like
having a car that wouldn't go above 55mph by having a speed regulator. Some trucking companies actually
put such a gizmo in their trucks to keep their drivers honest). Would you like the government to demand
that makers of portable audio players put such a circuit into such players?

At some point our tort system exists only to make a profit for the lawyers and for "whiplash Willies" to
abuse the system for a quick buck. The small aircraft business was almost destroyed by product liability
lawsuits. Those cases involved 20-50 year old planes that were built before todays standards were
developed. How can you justify calling such a product "defective"? Should you be allowed to sue Ford if you were hurt when your 80 year old model "T"'s gas tank exploded today?

Blame the insurers

[metamatic]

In fact, it's probably not entirely his fault either. He probably went to the doctor with hearing problems, had expensive tests and treatments, and then his insurer asked him to sue Apple. That's the way it works.

I accidentally cut my finger open using a Leatherman tool, and had to go to the ER. When it came time to pay up, my insurance company sent me a letter asking where the accident occurred, what products were involved, and asking me to sue anyone who might be liable in order to recoup the costs. The letter really didn't have a checkbox for "It was my own stupid fault"; it just assumed that it would be possible to sue somebody.

I wrote "It was my own stupid fault" on the form and sent it back... but don't be surprised if you see someone suing Leatherman for making knives sharp enough to cut into fingers.

Re:Stop

[msh104]

couldn't apple sue them back stating that while you they said that you *can* use the ipod to listen to music but that there is nowhere in the manual that you actually *should* do that, and that the device is pretty safe as and that there is no risk as long as the device is not used. and that it was your choice to use it for something they didn't told you to use it and that it is therefore your own fault that you have become bad hearing....

sigh..

I Want My IPOD (and other things) Louder

[nincehelser]

I have hearing loss that didn't become apparent until my 30's.

A good part of it is genetic (a fact I didn't find out until recently). Another good part is also from being in loud environments (driving tractors, working in a coal-fired power plant, computer machine rooms,etc.). I also had lots of middle-ear infections as a kid.

I wore hearing protection when it was recommended. I didn't listen to *really* loud music (no concerts), and I didn't start wearing headphones until my hearing loss was already apparent.

I wear some pretty advanced hearing aids, but they aren't great for listening to music (I lose too much bass). I like to take them out when listening to music, and I typically have to crank my iPod close to the maximum volume. I've had to return laptops because they just didn't have enough audio "ooomph".

I use the most efficient headphones I can (based only on my perception), but many electronic devices just fall a little bit short of having a comfortable volume. I need an extra boost. I've tried a few sound boosters for headphones, but haven't found one I really like (If someone has some good recommendations, I'd appreciate it)

I'm really going to hate it if they impose more severe limits on volume. I'd like the option of going a bit higher.

I understand the higher volumes can still be damaging if you have hearing loss, but I can't really enjoy music otherwise.

The population is aging, and everyone's hearing is just going to get worse. Just wait until you guys find out hearing aids aren't covered by insurance! (I'm hoping that will change soon)

Now, if someone would just get on the ball and sell hearing aids with built-in bluetooth, I'd be very, very, happy. (If there isn't a patent on this already, it is mine! ;)

If anyone knows of any home-brew hearing assistance device projects, please let me know!

Re:Playing Devil's Advocate...

[Golias]

(IIRC Pete Townsend recently spoke out against earbuds because he experienced hearing loss from headphones)

In spite of his claim to the contrary, don't you think it's possible that his hearing loss might have had something to do with being the guitarist for "THE LOUDEST ROCK AND ROLL BAND IN THE WORLD" for four decades?

The guy was exposed to 90 - 110 db's almost nightly for most of his career. No matter what he says, that's the main reason he's nearly deaf now. If headphones damaged his ears, it's because he had to crank them up to overcome the hearing loss from his wilder youth.

Re:It was his choice.

[Grishnakh]

What state was this in? I think the state has a lot to do with the outcome of the court case. Some states are much less friendly to this type of idiocy than others.