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Businesses Entertainment

The RIAA and French Button-Makers 150

Alien54 writes "Requiring permission to innovate? Feeling entitled to search others' property? Getting the power to act like law enforcement in order to fine or arrest those who are taking part in activities that challenge your business model? Don't these all sound quite familiar? Centuries from now (hopefully much, much sooner), the actions of the RIAA, MPAA and others that match these of the weavers and button-makers of 17th century France will seem just as ridiculous."
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The RIAA and French Button-Makers

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  • Wait.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PieSquared ( 867490 ) <isosceles2006@nOsPaM.gmail.com> on Thursday January 18, 2007 @10:26AM (#17662974)
    Centuries from now the actions of the RIAA will seem ridiculous? I was under the opinion that they seemed that way now!

    If a private company being given the same powers as the police doesn't seem ridiculous, there is something else wrong.
  • Bad analogy (Score:2, Insightful)

    by cryfreedomlove ( 929828 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @10:26AM (#17662980)
    Sorry, but this analogy does not hold up. The MPAA is not stopping anyone from making original movies. They are simply saying that you cannot copy someone else's work and call it your own. The French button makers wanted to ban button making completely for anyone outside their guild.
  • by Orange Crush ( 934731 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @10:31AM (#17663068)

    I'm no fan of the RIAA and by no means condone their actions to defend "their" blessed IP, but there's a key difference between the RIAA and the French Button-Makers. Those who dared innovate with buttons made of cloth would be punished because it completely cut the button makers out of the loop. The RIAA has not yet gone after those who dare produce music (independant bands, labels, social networking, etc.) without being under their auspices.

    About the only similarity I see is that both the guilds and the RIAA are asshats and were going after end-users. Beyond that, the analogy breaks down.

  • Re:Bad analogy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by spencerogden ( 49254 ) <spencer@spencerogden.com> on Thursday January 18, 2007 @10:34AM (#17663116) Homepage
    The analogy is not with what they are trying to prevent, but with the powers they are asking for. A private organization should not be given the powers of search and seizure, that's what the button makers wanted, and that's what the MPAA and RIAA want. They want to enforce laws to their own standards, and that's insane. At the level of an individual they would be called vigilantes.
  • by fireboy1919 ( 257783 ) <rustyp AT freeshell DOT org> on Thursday January 18, 2007 @10:41AM (#17663224) Homepage Journal
    The RIAA has not yet gone after those who dare produce music (independent bands, labels, social networking, etc.) without being under their auspices.

    Except in the purchase of blank music CDs, of course, which cost more because you're going to presumably put music on them owned by the RIAA. And they have sent take-down notices to bands who've got their own MP3s up on the web.

    You might also say that the mandatory DRM in ipods hurts bands who want their music shared by keeping it from being shared by the uninitiated.

    That's not exactly nothing, is it?
  • Re:Bad analogy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hummassa ( 157160 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @10:50AM (#17663356) Homepage Journal

    Sorry, but this analogy does not hold up. The MPAA is not stopping anyone from making original movies.
    No, the analogy is perfect.

    The *AA wants, for instance, to stop everyone from develop software that could be used to backup dvds. They are, for instance, stopping TiVo from developing new features to their set-top box. Those two are examples of the first item, "Requiring permission to innovate", and was illustrated in the history told by the guild requiring that anyone that wants to weave their fabrics differently should have the guild's permission.

    They are requesting powers of police to watch what _I_ have in my HD, and what _I_ talk in my private net connections. This is a clear example of the second item, "Feeling entitled to search others' property".

    More, they want powers to emprision or fine whoever they _think_ have their bits in the HD. This is an example of the third item; in the case on the FTA, the button-makers guild wanted to search everyone's homes, to find if they had any clothes with fabric-made buttons (that were not made by guilded members) and they wanted to imprision and fine whoever had those.

    Every one of those items is telling the story of how the guilds wanted to protect their business model, regardless of the rights and protections that the citizens should have, including the right to the privacy of their own homes. The *AAs want to protect their business model, regardless of the rights and protections that the citizens should have, including the right to the privacy of their own homes and their private communications. So, as I told, the analogy is complete and perfect.

    Don't just read the FTA, but the two linked-by pages too...
  • by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @10:55AM (#17663414) Homepage
    You don't have to go outside the music industry to show that what they're doing today will be viewed as foolish by those in the future, they've been doing this for a long time now.
    • Player Pianos - When these were introduced, they were hated by musicians because they thought it threatened their livelihood, "who's going to pay us to play when you can just get one of these pianos?"
    • Phonograph Records - Many musicians hated these for the same reason when they first came out, "who's going to pay us to play when you can just buy a record for a couple of bucks?"
    • Radio broadcasts of records - When radio stations first began broadcasting records instead of live music performances, many musicians again felt this threatened them, "Who's going to buy our records when they can hear them on the radio for free?"
    In hindsight it's obvious that none of these technologies were threats to musicians and in fact, in many cases they helped them.
  • by argoff ( 142580 ) * on Thursday January 18, 2007 @11:14AM (#17663718)
    ... obviously, in 150 years, china will be issuing diplomatic myspace invectives to azerbaijan ...

    It's more like in 30 years, and it's more like they will be RIAA-ing their own people to death. The copying of information and ideas are some of the few liberties and rights the Chinese people have, by pressuring them to kill that - the US is not only destabilizing the country and the region, but also pre-destining the death of a lot of people. In the US, the RIAA and the MPAA have certain legal restrictions that keep people from being shot in the head to set an example. Does anyone think for a moment that they wouldn't persue that if they could lawfully get away with it? Well, in China, the legal structure that holds back the powers that be is weak and non existent in many areas. When their content and invention industries start to make the transtition to a service based high tech model, it will likely be brutal and violent. It will also likely create the bitterest resentment of the US that one could imagine. For those who wish to impose copyright and patnet, I have no problem calling them what they are: murderers.

  • by Ashtead ( 654610 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @11:20AM (#17663826) Journal

    The big difference between surgeons and electricians on one side, and entertainment and button-makers on the other side, is that even minute faults in the former's practices can lead directly to loss of life and property, while no such fatal consequences are possible for entertainers or button-makers. As for machinery cutting off peoples fingers, we have got some other ways of controlling safety in general, such as the OSHA.

    Consider other, non-critical, guild like watch-makers or painters, once also strictly controlled ... At worst, the control on their work would be along "fit for purpose"-regulations, but I don't think anyone has ever died from a stopped watch or a house painted in the wrong color.

  • by beadfulthings ( 975812 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @11:26AM (#17663900) Journal
    I don't see how this has much bearing on what's happening now. The guilds in Europe were a powerful force for centuries, from the dawn of the Middle Ages on. They covered just about every facet of life from fine arts (painters) to crafts and trades (weavers, plumbers, carpenters, silversmiths) to the food chain (butchers, fishmongers). They served any number of useful purposes including protecting their members (basically the middle class) from the abuses of the nobility and the church; setting up standards and best practices; and developing formalized methods for training (the system of apprentice/journeyman/master craftsman). As someone here has pointed out, that system survives today in the training and certification of certain trades such as plumbers and electricians.

    One good way to appreciate the power and function of the guilds is to read about the long history of the city of London; it has evolved to the present day on the basis of the actions of the guilds and their interactions with other parts of society.

    The article is shallow and superficial. When I read it, part of my mind sided with the French buttonmakers. They saw their tradecraft being walmartized, and they protested.
  • by foniksonik ( 573572 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @11:37AM (#17664054) Homepage Journal
    There's no mandatory DRM in iPods unless you buy the song through iTunes.... they play MP3s just fine... or WAV or FLAC and of course MP4u as well as the iTunes MP4p formats.
  • Re:Bad analogy (Score:2, Insightful)

    by iminplaya ( 723125 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @12:53PM (#17665234) Journal
    At the level of an individual they would be called vigilantes.

    In their case, pirates would be more appropriate.
  • by smackt4rd ( 950154 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @01:12PM (#17665574)
    Yes, because we all know people will die if they can't use Photoshop.
  • i do not embrace the usa, i am no nationalist, and the usa has done plenty of wrong in the world. the usa has also done plenty of good in the world. imagine that: it's done both. blindly excusing the usa for its crimes OR blindly ignoring the good the usa has done are both prejudices of equal intellectual dishonesty

    but some people ascribe to american behavior what is nothing more than human behavior, common to all peoples, common to the history of the entire world, common to all current cultures. anti-americans castigate the usa for crimes that all nations commit. this doesn't excuse the usa, but why focus only on the usa when other countries do/ did the same? of course, when other countries do the same, it's all easily explained by... the nefarious influence of washington dc. i'm amazed sometimes at diatribes that wind up by logical inference from creative lines of reasoning for blaming the usa for situations and conditions that existed before the usa itself even existed!

    if you have a crime that the usa specifically and uniquely does, then please, by all means, enter into the withering invectives

    but if you want to sound intelligent, and not like a blind ethnocentric nationalist yourself, try not to criticize the usa for something all nations and peoples are guilty of. it makes your blind prejudice obvious and pathetic

    look: blindly embracing and excusing the usa (or any nation) is simple stupid nationalism

    but blindly kicking and incriminating the usa (or any nation) is EQUALLY simple and stupid nationalism

    the only morally and intellectually sound point of view on the usa, or any nation, is to look at what they have done as good, and what they have done as bad. anything else, and you're a blind ethnocentric nationalist. whether that means you blindly prosecute the usa, or blindly love the usa.

    yes: you. you are the same as an american ultranationalist. such a person is stupid. so are you. the only intelligent point of view of the usa is one that sees the good and bad and can wiegh both in their mind at the same time impartially

    all else is useless boring typical lowest common denominator tribal vendetta

    people have to learn to talk IDEAS, not TRIBES

    until they do, people like you are part of the problems in the world, not the solution to them

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