Teen Accuses Record Companies of Collusion 393
evilned1 writes "A 16-year-old boy being sued by five record companies accusing him of online music piracy, accused the recording industry on Tuesday of violating antitrust laws, conspiring to defraud the courts and making extortionate threats."
NO WAI!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Can't wait till studios figure out this isn't the 19th century...
There is a way to make money in music/movies. Selling mass copies of media is not it.
Tom
Smart kid (Score:1, Insightful)
God bless this little thief (Score:4, Insightful)
This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
Silulu. Hot Polynesian Geek Chick. HPGC [scitechpulse.com]
Its was about time, but the sad fact is (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Yay! (Score:5, Insightful)
I for one would love to see an actual list of the "thousands of employees that have been laid off" in the music industry due to piracy, according to the RIAA. Sheesh yeah those pop stars are out begging in the street, and they're the ones that keep the SMALLER percentage of the royalties...
Hate to say it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Its was about time, but the sad fact is (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
And your source for this claim is
Oh, the RIAA. Right.
Magic money tree ? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not like the people they win suits against can actually pay theese outragous fines.
Maybe sort of... (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, sort of. There is of course a lawyer behind it. A 16 year old might have a gut feeling that these things are taking place, but I'm guessing his lawyer suggested this particular approach...
Re:Ok... (Score:5, Insightful)
Right - The kid's charges.
After all, the US recording industry has lost three major price-fixing cases in the past 20 years, with absolutely no effect whatsoever on how they do business. CDs cost the same, radio stations still live and die by pay-for-play under various names, and the industry still rapes both the artists and the fans that let it exist in the first place.
So why would just one more teaspoon make the ocean overflow?
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:God bless this little thief (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
if he can actually get the courts to agree that the RIAA is wasting their time, it's a win for everyone, which is why he deserves more than a starving FLOSS developer. i equate a FLOSS developer who doesn't have a real job with an artist who refuses to join our capitalist society. our country has been capitalist for over 200 years... that's not going to change, you don't deserve my money if you can't figure that out for yourself. it's called getting a real job and making sure that anything you code on your own time belongs to you. not too difficult.
if i had the money to donate, i'd donate it to this kid. he's taking on a worthy cause (through his lawyers). chances are a "starving" FLOSS developer has the means to get a real job and afford to live, while a 16 year old kid taking on the RIAA probably doesn't.
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
just 'cause the *iaa keeps bleating 'youre stealing, its illegal, etc' doesnt make it so.
i'd throw a few gold coins his way too, as this looks like a pretty good vector to prise open the *iaa shenanigans
Re:Hate to say it... (Score:5, Insightful)
If these five separate companies were actually acting individually, and not as a monopolistic cartel, then they should each have conducted their own investigations of wrongdoing, and each have filed their own separate lawsuits for the individual violations of their IP. But them all acting together as one big organization kind of gives the game away and removes any doubt that these are saparate companies only as a mere formality. They are acting as a single entity with no free-market competition in mind while holding these proceedings. But that's just my layman's view of the situation, and I just hope the common sense I hope I applied to this analysis parallels the actual law in some way.
I just don't know if you can come up with a more textbook definition of monopoly (and all the reasons why they are bad) than what the RIAA seems to represent.
Re:God bless this little thief (Score:3, Insightful)
It's a shame that the only direct penalty against the government in this case was $2 million, which to the USA Federal Government is less than pocket change.
What should have happened is that the specific officers/agents/officials involved should have been publically identified, fired, and then prosecuted and incarcerated just as though they were private citizens who had taken the exact same actions. My bet is that if this happened, they would be in prison for a long, long time. I bet further that if this did happen, the incidence of abuses of power like this would suddenly see a dramatic reduction. You tend to be far more careful when it's your ass on the line and not a meager fine paid by your organization. And why should some thug (legitimate law enforcement + Orwellian surveillance powers = band of thugs) be allowed to cause you direct and personal harm by depriving you of the most basic rights in the name of trading freedom for security, while the worst thing that could happen to said thug is that (maybe) he could lose his job? At what point did we decide that this is a great way to run things? -- I missed that meeting.
Not fair, you say? When the government abuses authority it should be held to a much stricter standard than when a private citizen behaves in the same fashion (at least triple the penalty, and criminal *not merely financial* sanctions). Those who say they are fit to govern us and be our authorities do so voluntarily, and they should also be understood as saying that they are prepared to be held to such a standard. For any other line of work, this idea would be too extreme, but the people who are capable of depriving us of life, liberty, and property on a large scale hold a lot of power, and a lot of responsibility should go along with that.
Re:God bless this little thief (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:3, Insightful)
Or in other words, "I didn't do, but even if I did they made me do it, and never told me not to, and it was a long time ago, and, like, even if I had it the music was legal because it was someone else's."
Sorry, but it sounds like he's squirming like a little kid caught with his hand the cookie jar, throwing out every excuse and rationalization he can come up with.
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:3, Insightful)
Another vector would be to stop giving gold coins to the RIAA in the first place. Of course that requires convincing the mass population of sheep that they should be wiser with their money and stop following payola tunes all around the place.
Re:Yay! (Score:3, Insightful)
= classical music (super hard to find in stores, amazon.com here I come)
= jazz (again, very hard to find a store with a decent selection, amazon.com)
= import world music (as if I could find this in stores, again, amazon.com)
= classic rock albums (you'd think that most stores would have, say, the complete Queen or Led Zeppelin discography, yeah, right, they might have the 'best of' or 'greatest hits' but never the actual albums: amazon.com again)
see a trend here? Why would I go in a physical store and order a CD there (that may or may not arrive in 3-4 weeks) when I can order them from the comfort of my own home and I know I'll receive them within a week tops? And even if I was into the 'latest and greatest' (cough cough) why would I go in a record store and not just get the record on iTunes? After all given how current music is mastered (levels, normalization, etc.) it's not like iTunes AAC files sound that much worse than the actual CDs.
If you really wanted to go after the real causes of retail record stores closing I suggest going after amazon.com and itunes, which in my opinion have a LOT more to do with that than music piracy.
Did you RTA? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the RIAA is going to lose this case, and it's going to set the stage for how the RIAA's patterned lawsuits start failing, time after time.
The last argument, in particular, should be able to defeat any RIAA lawsuit in court, since people buy and sell CD's all the time, and the RIAA can't prove what the person owned the rights to at the time they downloaded copyrighted music.
"His defenses to the industry's lawsuit include that he never sent copyrighted music to others, that the recording companies promoted file sharing before turning against it, that average computer users were never warned that it was illegal, that the statute of limitations has passed, and that all the music claimed to have been downloaded was actually owned by his sister on store-bought CDs."
I hope someone wakes up and really lookx @ this (Score:2, Insightful)
I think he has something there, hopefully he will receive the support needed to Show those fuckers for what they really are.. Parasites.
Thanks for your time
gK
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
We're talking about "legal" and "illegal". Right and wrong have nothing to do with it.
Re:Thousands of layoffs (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
Innocent unless proven guilty, remember? One of those democratic principles we're supposed to be fighting for?
Not good (Score:4, Insightful)
Think about it:
people tend to dislike huge corporation
people tend to hate lawyers for huge corporation
No matter what happens the media will report it and public opinion will be on his side. Even if he is guilty this is a massive PR debacle. Setting an example works if the person can be portrayed as EVIL and VICIOUS (like for profit pirates) not young children. Whatever RIAA lawyer thought this was a good idea should be fired...into the sun.
So I say please keep suing grandmothers and children. Come on RIAA...aren't there Eskimo retarded paraplegics in wheelchairs who have AIDS that you can go after? Please do.
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
My Dad, who is a lawyer, always used to say: "Law is not justice, legal is not right and illegal is not wrong."
Law is just a set of rules for the smooth functioning of society and has nothing to do with morality or ethics - they may overlap in places, but that does not mean a thing.
Am I missing the point? (Score:4, Insightful)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringeme
- Creating a copy and giving it to someone else. This constitutes copyright infringement in most jurisdictions. It is not infringing under specific circumstances such as fair use and fair dealing. In some countries, such as Israel, creating a copy is completely legal, as long as it was done from non-profit intentions.
- Creating a copy to serve as a backup. This is seen as a fundamental right of the software-buyer in some countries, e.g., Germany, Spain, Brazil and Philippines. It can be infringement, depending on the laws and the case law interpretations of those laws, currently undergoing changes in many countries. In the US, legal action was taken against companies which made backup copies while repairing computers (see MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc. (1993)) and as a result, US law was changed to make it clear that this is not copyright infringement.
And collusion sounds like what the oil companies do to maintain the high price of oil, working together for mutual benefit. Who needs monopolies when you have collusion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion [wikipedia.org]Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
In WWII did the soldiers decide they weren't going to fire at the enemy combatants because "they hadn't been proven guilty in front of a jury of their peers?" No, they shot at them, and if they captured them, they were sent to POW camps, where they were held as guilty until after the war (or they were traded). You don't try people in war like that, it just doesn't make sense, as all of your time would be spent on the obvious.
I guess you missed the part where Bush declared that the Gitmoees aren't POWs, German soldiers in WW2 aren't enemy combatants, and we aren't actually at war with anyone in particular. Aside from that, you're doing fine.
The people at gitmo are so unlikely to be innocent it's not even a question.
Based on what, exactly? You round up a bunch of people in Afghanistan and they're suddenly bloodthirsty animals? If they weren't then, they are now, and with good reason.
These are the prisoners who demand TVs during the world cup, than destroyed them during commercials.
Sound like fans to me.
These are people who will do anything to kill the western way.
Even if it means raising sheep in a village you've never heard of - suck on that!
I imagine the odds of one of them being innocent is much LESS than the odds that any given person in american prisons is innocent.
That's about 40%, right?
But all these big hot shot lawyers are clamoring to defend them. It's pure publicity on their part, they don't care about guilt or innocence, in fact, they want guilty parties to go free. if these lawyers cared about justice, they'd donate their time to help cases where people were legitimately screwed by the justice system.
So you see nothing wrong with throwing someone in a hole for 3 years, declaring them outside the Geneva convention, and outside civil due process? I hope they come for you tonight.
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously...
They've found a rather large number of folks at Gitmo to be innocent.
Do a search for british gitmo prisoners.
We (america) engaged in *TORTURE* of them which means any admission of guilt on their parts is suspect.
If I were to waterboard you, shave you, parade you around naked, etc. as we have done to these guys, you would confess to just about anything in under 48 hours.
We really need to hold ourselves to higher standards if we hope to be the shining beacon on the hill.
Or we just need to say we are savages too and stop pretending we are better than everyone else.
Re:Yay! (Score:1, Insightful)
I doubt GM and Ford just laid off 10s of thousands of people because of copyright infringement either.
Yeah, local B&M record stores are going out of business because of copyright infringement, hey RIAA, remember the "downtown" shopping experience that small town US had until about the late 70's? Remember most people got paid on Thursday and did their shopping that night? Damn, and all of those stores are gone now, I bet that had nothing to do with copyright infringement either.
Re:What I don't get (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What I don't get (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:3, Insightful)
Over five years, for David Hicks at least.
Still yet to be charged.
Still yet to have any substantial evidence against him released.
And recently announced, no guarantee that time served will count towards any future sentance.
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:2, Insightful)
Really? [time.com] This is for a guy who would most likely be found guilty if he ever saw the inside of a courtroom, if the tactics that have been used hadn't made that impossible. Remember, the transcript they're talking about (which I read at the time, but can't find now) was released by the Government, not written by the media.
most of these people are actually guilty
Some of us out here in the real world would prefer things like evidence before making claims like that. If I were locked up for five years without trial, without charges and without evidence, hell yeah I'd be throwing my wastes over people -- what other recourse would I have?
You just don't walk into a random town and grab people of the streets and mail them to Cuba.
If you look at the bounties the Northern Alliance were getting, some of the people who have already been released from Gitmo had exactly that happen to them.
If these people aren't POWs, and aren't criminals, we can't invent some special new category for them that disqualifies them from any judicial protection whatsoever -- democracies don't work like that.
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:2, Insightful)
No. He wasn't stealing. He is accused of copyright violation. He isn't even convicted
Repeat after me:
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing that completely flabberghasts most of the world is that USA actually debate such a thing. What century do we live in anyway ? Seriously, they're called "human rights" for a reason. What part of Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind,(...) is hard to grasp ?
But even ignoring that, there's a second problem, atleast equally bad.
It's perfectly possible (likely even!) that most of the people in Gitmo are guilty of horrible crimes. The way one deals with such is by charging people for an actual court, and have the court hand out a sentence. (which in the USA can include the death-penalty)
Putting everyone in prison for like literally half a decade, yet never formally forwarding any charges, and just say "it's ok, they're *probably* guilty, most of them anyway, so we won't even bother trying to show that for a court" is definitely *NOT* how it's done. It's a complete disgrace.
And it completely undermines USAs position as the "good guys". It gives the other side an excuse to say: Sure we play dirty, but look at them Americans, they ignore stuff like the human rigths when it suits them too, they're no different. (notice: I don't nessecarily *agree* with this statement, I just think you stupidly invite it by not following your own rules)
Re:What I don't get (Score:4, Insightful)
He isn't accused of stealing $30,000 worth of music. He is accused of stealing $40 worth of music, and they want $30,000 in damages for that.
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:5, Insightful)
And you know that they're guilty without anything like a fair trial. Because they're terrorists and they don't deserve a fair trial (or somesuch bullshit circular reasoning).
Let's not even get into the pseudo-legalistic weaselling BS that the US is trying to use to get around the Geneva Convention.
Are you saying that the British government would have been justified in using torture against Irish Republican terrorists who covered the walls of their cells in excrement?
Anyway, let's make one thing absolutely clear. The Taliban, Al Qaeda and all their hardline Wahabi friends are vermin who I'd quite happily see stoned to death, or finished off in similarly appropriate medievel style. Who's worse- the Americans or the Taliban and friends? The Taliban.
But regardless of what your dumbfuck "With us or against us" black-and-white-world leader says, it doesn't justify what's going on at Gitmo, and if you need them to compare against and make yourselves look good, you're already fucked.
Also, apart from anything else.... nice little anti-American propaganda tool you set yourselves up there. Fucking idiots. Not that I'm bothered about it making the US look bad (deservedly so, and not my problem). But anything that lets those lowlife portray themselves (and co-opt the cases of the innocent who had nothing to do with them) as martyrs and recruit more to their cause isn't exactly desirable.
Gitmo proves that the Americans are all talk and full of shit when it comes to justice, democracy and whatever. Go on- bring up some spurious dichotomy and ask how I'd prefer living in a world ruled by the Taliban (because if I'm not kissing your ass, I'm endorsing them, right?)
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:2, Insightful)
Hypocritical
Unless... there is no compromise in defending democracy and freedom. Are the US already using the end justify the means logic? For the worlds sake I surely hope not!
Re:This puts a grin on my face. (Score:4, Insightful)
In order for the populace to defend them from a tyranny of the federal government, I believe the ACLU is right, you would have to give people access to tanks, missiles, etc AND provide them with a reasonable means of obtaining said weapons, otherwise one could make the argument that the government is not giving people the means to exercise their rights.
At the risk of going wildly off the story's topic, I have to disagree. Look at the situation in Iraq. The terrorists (resistance fighters, whatever you want to call them) don't have tanks. They don't have missiles (unless you call the RPG a missile). They don't have body armor. But they seem to be holding their own. One might say they have a good chance of "winning".
Given a strong will to not be over-run, and the support of the population at large (go ahead and try to tell me that these people are able to acquire and plant explosives without being noticed) you don't need fancy weapons to hold back a vastly superior armed force, as long as that armed force cares about image.
Even that condition is debatable. Witness the Chechens. Their Russian adversaries don't seem to be nearly as squeamish to civilian losses as the Americans are (see Wikipedia's entry on the Battle of Grozny [wikipedia.org] for a taste), but still the Chechens resist (3 Soldiers Die in Chechen Rebel Ambush [google.com]). Granted in that battle (click here [army.mil] for one account and some lessons that should have been carried into Iraq), both sides had heavy arms. But here are some good quotes that help make my point:
One experienced sniper is capable of doing what will prove to be beyond the capability of a tank, gun, or entire infantry subunit: disable a commander, destroy a gun or mortar crew, control one or two streets . . . and, most important, instill in the enemy a feeling of constant danger, nervousness, and expectation of a sudden shot. Everyone fears the Chechen snipers in Grozny. . . . There are many cases where a sniper wounds a serviceman, and then kills the wounded person and those who come to his aid.[20]
The sniper could also use an RPG in conjunction with a sniper rifle. A real problem for Russian troops was identifying snipers who shot at them and then donned a Red Cross armband and mingled with the local populace and the Russian soldiers he was killing. To counteract this, Russian checkpoints began forcing the Chechen men to take off their shirts. Soldiers would look for bruises on the shoulder from weapon recoil, for powder burns on forearms, or for a silver lining around cuffs (from mortar or artillery propellant bags). They also smelled clothing for gunpowder and looked for traces of it under fingernails or on arms or legs. Russian forces also employed snipers, but not with the same degree of success as the Chechens. A March 1995 article decrying the neglect of sniper training attests to this fact.[21]
The correct mix and employment of weapons in the city were also important. Grozny was a three-tiered fight (upper floors of buildings, street level, and subterranean or basement), and the weapons had to fit. Russian tanks could not lower their main gun tubes and coaxial machine guns low enough to shoot into basements harboring Chechen fighters. To correct this problem, the Russians put ZSU-23-4 self-propelled, multi-barreled, antiaircraft machine guns forward with columns to fire at heights and into basements.
The use of artillery and air power in the city was counterproductive in many instances. Indiscriminate bombing and shelling turned the local population against the Russians. The locals included some Russian citizens who were inhabitants of Grozny (and who found it incomprehensible that their