College Demands RIAA Pay Up For Wasting Its Time

An anonymous reader writes "We've already seen the University of Wisconsin tell the RIAA to go away, but the University of Nebaska has gone one step further: it's asking the RIAA to pay up for wasting its time with the silly demand to push students into paying up. The spokesperson for the University also notes that since they constantly rotate IP addresses and have no need to hang onto that information for very long, they simply cannot help the RIAA. They have no clue who was attached to which IP address at the time the RIAA is complaining about."

Perhaps

[rblancarte]

I think that we are seeing that people are finally getting fed up with the RIAA. Their tactics are quasi-illegal, and their manners are boorish. Maybe 2007 is the year that people finally get wise and stand up to the RIAA. A few losses in court, which IMHO are pretty much a slam dunk, and I think we will see the RIAA have to stand down this attack on music consumers.

What has disappointed me was the fact that no one has stood up to them before to finally beat them in court. There has to be a first case and once there is, it will set the precedent.

RonB

Re:Good

[Gerzel]

I don't think "as hard" is appropriate esp since I believe that the RIAA, from what I have seen, is abusing the US legal and court system and their political and monetary power (yes monetary power CAN be abused).

While I don't know if the RIAA has done anything in particular illegal (though I am fairly sure they have somewhere along the line) I still see the trends in their lawsuits and tactics as abusive and deserving of a civil (if that really counts between two very large organizations neither of which are really citizens) hearing.

What's going to happen

[br0d]

is that the RIAA is going to start suing schools. And that is when I pop the popcorn.

What I wrote in their support

[Just Some Guy]

Here's the letter I wrote to the president of UNL, the chancellor, each of the regents, and the CIO (Mr. Weir):

College is the time for many children to grow into adults by learning to make their own decicions, often for the first time in their lives. Access to information about those decisions is important, and the ability to get it anonymously is critical. No boy wants his friends to know that he was contemplating suicide. No girls wants to be seen asking about sexually transmitted diseases. Unless they know that their questions can't be tracked back to them, most kids won't ask them.

Walter Weir's IT policies contribute to the atmosphere of open learning that a university, of all places, should strive to attain. Now, some group from Hollywood wants UNL to overhaul its computer network for the explicit purpose of destroying that, simply to serve ends that the school has no real reason to care about. As a computer scientist and a Nebraska taxpayer, I have these additional problems with their request:

1) I am not interested in seeing my money used to persecute kids for trading songs, much as you and I traded tapes with our friends when we were younger.

2) IP addresses are traceable to computers, not people. If two or more kids share a computer, who gets the cease-and-desist notice? The RIAA has a history of doing asinine things like suing dead grandmothers; yes, that really happened. I'd much rather see UNL say that their requests can't be answered than to get involved in such foolish and expensive unpleasantry.

3) Again, the current system works and I see no reason to change it to benefit one outside group with dubious interests. Computer networks are hard to build, and harder to build well. Mr. Weir's department has done a fine job and he should not be made to enact its destruction.

Just say no to the RIAA. We have a system that serves us - the citizens, taxpayers, and students of Nebraska - very well. UNL's network is meant for the education and personal growth of its users. It is not meant to be the unpaid police force for an outside party with no concern for our needs.

I got several replies of agreement, and I think that the school will be holding its ground.

GO HUSKERS!

Re:U of Nebraska = Haven for Hackers?

[nutznboltz2003]

UNL's network is open on the student side. You can run servers, game servers, web cams, whatever the hell you want. The thing is though, if you get caught, and they can prove who you are, they toss your sorry butt to the wolves. The student side is much more open the the restricted faculty/staff/admin side. A student plugging their machine into that side is likely to get caught pretty quickly.

I'm also pretty sure that the IP is kept longer then they admit. I have friends attending UNL and they have had the same IP all year. It did not even change when they went home for x-mas break. I think they have the ability to help the RIAA if they want, but with all the bad press, and Nebraska's need for recruiting out-of-state students, this is the perfect publicity stunt. "Come to Nebraska and leech without fear of being turned in".

Overall, I think they are no more a haven for hackers than any other large University. Most seem to have the attitude of "do what you want, but don't get caught".

Re:uncle sam (will) say so

[daveschroeder]

I love how paranoid speculation like this is always marked "Insightful".

How about this: what if such "federal legislation" is, in fact, not "coming soon"?

Re:Perhaps

[BlueTrin]

At least DVD have extra contents, I used to buy at least 4 CDs for every movie I would watch. Now since the DVDs are quite cheap and they improved alot the marketing (adding nice packaging and extra features), I do buy alot more DVDs than CDs.

Personally, I have alot more pleasure watching my DVD collection than seeing all these overpriced CDs with no-extra content and which are quite expensive only because of the majors. Not that I endorse the MPAA but at least the movie industry made more efforts than the music industry to renew themselves.

They need a better data retention policy

[vinn01]

If they really want to make the RIAA go away, they need a better data retention policy.

A month is way to too to keep IP address (I assume DHCP) records.

At an ISP where I used to work, we kept RADIUS ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RADIUS [wikipedia.org] ) logs far too long too. I think it was realized that a data retention policy was needed when the RIAA started sending their lawyer letters (that was back in 2001).

In most cases, the logs are only need for a few hours. In rare cases maybe a day or two. Longer than that, the only reasons are not related to network or system administration. If your security is so poor that you need IP address logs from a month ago to see who was on what server, you have serious security problems.

If I ran an ISP (or a university network), I would retain the logs for one day. And maybe I would not retain full logs at all, for any length of time, if they became a liability.

Re:What I wrote in their support

[swid27]

Well said. You should send that along to the Lincoln Journal Star [townnews.com], the Omaha World-Herald [mailto] and the Daily Nebraskan [dailynebraskan.com].

Hey Slashdot! Want to have fun? Read (and reply to) some of the comments in the Journal Star articles about UNL and the RIAA (available here [journalstar.com] and here [journalstar.com].)

Re:uncle sam (will) say so

[HTH NE1]

A lot must have changed in the last ten years. It looked to me that [machine named after a Peanuts character](*) kept track of DHCP leases for years, recording who got what IP and what their machine's MAC address was. I was once tasked to audit the information for two semesters to update the DHCP server for the next year. Students who were caught trying to get an unassigned static IP got their MAC addresses banned. They've caught students buying new NICs to get new, unbanned MAC addresses to get back on the network before.

Meanwhile, the assignment of static IPs by DHCP must have also gone by the wayside, as when I was in the "residence halls" I was disturbed to discover that the IP addresses also had domain names identifying residence hall and room number and no option to have that information be removed.

I guess that with the addition of wireless access on campus, there was suddenly far more information than they could handle and felt there was no longer any point in tracking it beyond, what are they saying, 31 days?

(*) I'm pretty sure I know which machine, but there's no point in saying it here as it is inaccessible from off campus. I was there when they disallowed pings and traceroutes from the outside for reasons of network security, and that still appears to be the case. There's more than one Peanuts-named machine on campus.

Re:Perhaps

[PopeRatzo]

I love it when someone stands up to a bully. It gives me hope that there is still some decency left in the public realm when an institution like University of Nebraska, who's got a lot to lose, tells the RIAA to go pound sand.

I've dealt with University legal departments, and they can be among the most cowardly and smarmy of lawyers (which is like saying the "smelliest shit"), and it's really amazing that the administration of the UofN actually ignored their exposure to tell RIAA that they simply weren't going to be pushed around. I remember when a very powerful guy, who's daughter had committed suicide because of the pressure her religious father put on her because she committed the grevious sin of having a boyfriend, tried to pressure the University that I was working for a the time to give up email records so he could find out who the boyfriend was. It was clear at the time that his intention was to go after this boy for "sinning" with his daughter, which I guess was more important than realizing that it was the father who was the one putting fatal pressure on the girl. I still remember the university attorney, who used to be part of a floating Friday night card game, stood up to the guy and told him that they weren't going to give this father a single email, not a bit of information. He was threatened with violence and professional destruction by this rich and powerful asshole, but the U stood behind the lawyer.

I love to see a bully getting a boot in the ass. Their arrogant, outraged, sputtering after realizing they aren't going to get their way is priceless.

The Free Ride is Over

[sehlat]

The RIAA has, until fairly recently, gotten pretty much a free ride for two reasons:

1. They've been suing "little people" who frequently cannot even afford a lawyer and for whom even ONE loss in court would wipe them out financially.

2. A court system in which computer-clueless judges have taken the RIAA's word that their "evidence" is valid and who have forgotten or overlooked the "innocent until PROVEN guilty" which is the basis of our entire legal system.

Now they're starting to wade in against people and institutions who DO have lawyers and aren't afraid to use them and who CAN carry on the "protracted struggle" the modern over-lawyered legal system demands. In the meantime, judges are getting more educated about what computers can and can't do, and are being reminded of the presumption of innocence.

So instead of "show me the money", of which the RIAA has plenty, they're about to hear "show me the evidence", of which they have little or none.

Game, set, and match!

A Modest Proposal

[geoff lane]

Instead of the current icons used for stories about RIAA let's use parody versions of the music company logos. It's only fair that the real villains get the credit they deserve.

Re:FUCK YOU SEVEN ELEVEN!

[Anonymous Coward]

So does that mean you think the difference between petty theft and copyright infringement is only semantic?

If so, does that mean you think the penalty for copyright infringement should be the same as petty theft?

Because if so, I agree. Hell with this hundreds of dollars per song crap.

Ironic

[ObligatoryUserName]

I worked at UNL for a few years, and this strikes me as ironic.

Until somtime in the first half of the decade, UNL used to give everyone real static IP addresses. This let students easily host their own servers, including one server that, rumor had it, had one of the biggest collections of pirated music on the Internet - the server was pre-Napster and survived and thrived post-Napster. (Rumor said it was run by a woman who just loved music and liked to listen to everything that was uploaded... I'm not sure if she went to class much because they said she was in her 6th year or so when I was there.)

  This was before the RIAA was very active online, and to my understanding was fairly unaware of servers like this. When UNL went to DHCP everywhere, one of the effects was to make it harder to run servers like that. So, it's funny that a move that a few years ago was percieved as hurting music piracy is now seen as enabling it. (The move to DHCP wasn't done for political reasons, but the students didn't see it that way.)

PS. I never visited the server and don't know who ran it, so don't bother subpoenaing me, RIAA. :p

Attacking Colleges is quite stupid

[WaZiX]

Who will be the ones in charge in a few years? Who will be the biggest consumers of media? Who will buy their DVDs/Blu-Rays or whatever later?

Attack Universities as a whole and you make the next generation of deciders pissed off at you...

Oh and college guys think they know better (I know, I am one of them), so they tend to not bend over that easily....

Bad move, really bad move...

Re:RIAA needs to pay me...

[danpsmith]

For wasting my time with all these frivolous lawsuits I have to read about...

Seriously. You know honestly, the RIAA reminds me of the people fighting for prohibition. In the end it's going to lose because everyone is still drinking the booze (stealing the music) and all the legal action in the world isn't going to stop it. So you might as well just come to the conclusion that it's going to happen. I personally say let's make it legal!

I'd agree with you but for one thing...

[Svartalf]

(Please note: IANAL...)

Innocent until proven guilty only applies to the Criminal Justice System.
Civil law operates under the preponderance of evidence standard- and unless you invalidate the evidence the other
side is presenting, if they've enough of it, you'll lose the case. That's how the RIAA is getting these things
through- shock and awe. And pretty much every one of the cases so far that have actually gone to court have been
a loss for the RIAA.

I wish that one of the courts would twig onto the fact that the labels and RIAA are very probably acting
as a vexatious litigant and punish them accordingly.

Re:Gnat on an elephant's back

[Anonymous Coward]

I have gone to both Nebraska and Penn State as a student, and without a doubt Nebraska's network kicks a$$. I once went to a talk by an IT official at Nebraska and his view was that these kids are our future, as long as they aren't bringing the network to its knees, they won't ban them, and the university will expand and provide the bandwidth and openness necessary to foster any future development/innovation.

Re:Perhaps

[shoptroll]

ESA > The TV Networks > MPAA > RIAA in terms of who's getting the clue the fastest. At least in my book. At least the TV Networks are readily flirting with putting shows up on the web for viewing by consumers at no cost (as long as you don't mind and ad every 15 minutes... snack break anyone?). On the other hand, we get the RIAA attempting to shut down Internet Radio as we know it. At least the TV networks are trying to match the pirates with near equiavalent (in terms of cost to the consumer and accessibility) services.

In terms of CD sales.... Well let's see. I can get a DVD for a new movie for ~$20 which is 2 hours long (more with extra features) and will play in my laptop, game machine or DVD player. Or I can get a CD for $16 which is about an hour long, and if I'm lucky I don't get a rootkit or can't rip it to put on my MP3 player or to use as part of a custom playlist in my games. You tell me why CD sales aren't hot.

Anyways, lousy week for the RIAA it sounds.

Re:Good

[bendodge]

The simply use the bully factor: $GENERIC_OFFICIAL Joe here at City Hall desk is scared and/or impressed by big rich corporate lawyers who show up first in his mailbox with lots of legal-speak on official-looking stationary, and then at his desk orating about the big bad copyright infringements going on in this town, so Joe gives them his cooperates and thinks he is doing everyone a favor.

And typically, the honest old County Judge is rather confused by all the technical mumbo-jumbo, but naturally sees it the RIAA's way when the RIAA's lawyers give him a nice (although somewhat misleading) explanation about IP addresses and file-sharing. The local ISP is also cowed by the pile of legal junk in the mail, and helpfully provides all the logs and whatnot the lawyers demand.

Where this all falls apart is when you have a local officials who are savvy or refuse to do anything until they get savvy and understand everything. Don't get me wrong; people do need punished for their illegal activities. But the RIAA simply isn't a government agency that can push people around.

Commenter #4 on the Tech Dirt article nailed it!

[Eric Pierce]

Commenter #4 on the Tech Dirt article nailed it!

See for yourself: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070320/171228.s html [techdirt.com]

Re:Create more debt

[iminplaya]

Ants 'milking' aphids [nicksspiders.com]. Very common survival technique. Will never win against a lawn mover though.

Re:Flawed model

[ScrewMaster]

Bill Clinton was once asked, "Do you know of a single nation that has ever taxed and spent itself into prosperity?" He didn't have an answer. I suspect that if you asked Cary Sherman and the studio executive crowd "Do you know of a single major industry that has ever litigated itself into prosperity by suing its own customers?" that they wouldn't have an answer either. I exclude the legal profession from the short list of valid responses, since suing themselves into prosperity is their industry, and I also exclude the RIAA since they are lawyers.