RIAA Says Accused Students Are Settling 345
As we've been reporting, the RIAA has been offering settlements to college students suspected of sharing music online. Reader Weather Storm notes that more than a quarter of the alleged music pirates have accepted the RIAA's offer. Quoting: "...an attorney Ohio University arranged to meet with its students... said $3,000 is the standard settlement offer, though cases have settled for as much as $5,000."
hrmm (Score:5, Insightful)
College Students are Vulnerable (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF? Welcome to 1984 (Score:4, Insightful)
FTFA:
"Reasonable data retention policies are essential," he said. "Lawsuits for music theft are just one example, but there are a host of other crimes regularly perpetrated on computer networks.
"As services providers, one would think universities would understand the need to retain these records."
This only goes to highlight what I believe is the governments complicity in the **AA litigation activities.
And this is a surprise because... (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Find a lawyer to defend you; worry about the final verdict; worry about legal fees; worry about what your friends think; worry about possible ramifications from your school administration/student government...ad nauseum...
2) Pony up the money, which, upon consideration, is probably less than the credit card debt you've managed to rack up.
Honestly, I'm not sure I can blame them for their choice.
Never mind the pirates (Score:5, Insightful)
If there is ANY chance that you could be guilty, you don't stand a chance no matter how innocent you are.
Re:Where have all the ethics gone? Long time passi (Score:4, Insightful)
copyright infringement is not "stealing".
If you'd actually take a moment to educate yourself on the long history of artistry and creativity and the comparatively short history of copyright, you'd understand how the recording industry has twisted the law to its own evil purposes. Using bribes to have legislation passed which fences off huge swathes of our common culture from us, so they can charge admission. Copyright is supposed to be a limited time monopoly of copying, not a perpetual right of complete control.
Re:College Students are Vulnerable (Score:3, Insightful)
and the solution to the problem of having too much time and not enough money is increasing your exposure on the P2P nets?
as opposed, to say, subscribing to an on-campus music service?
Re:WTF? Welcome to 1984 (Score:3, Insightful)
That little bit of 'keep records on all users activity' information belies the fact that file sharing is not all that the people behind this farce are after. Welcome to 1984. When they begin mandating by law that all user activity is logged, you, me, everyone is fscked! No more secure online bill payments, no IMing, no nothing. Big brother is here to stay if this continues...
Re:Where have all the ethics gone? Long time passi (Score:3, Insightful)
If that's the case, go after the real stuff - stuff that philosophers discuss, not the stuff that's illegal only because of special interest lobbying.
Re:As these CRIMINALS should - guilty - pay the pi (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Rachet? (Score:3, Insightful)
And actually the bad part is not (only) the organization who tries to extort the money this way I think the real problem is the judicial system that doesn't give poor people a fighting chance.
Re:hrmm (Score:5, Insightful)
As I've said before, guilt and innocent have nothing to do with the law. It's all about who can afford the best lawyer. And, unfortunately, in most cases it's a matter of who can afford a lawyer *period*. That is the same reason that only famous and rich people can afford to go to court when someone slanders or libels them or violates their copyrights. Who wants to spend the thousands of dollars or tens of thousands of dollars to take someone to court who has a big, fat, malicious mouth but no money with which to compensate even when you win?
So, when it comes down to it, monetary status dictates that the RIAA is correct and the accused are - indeed - guilty.
Students say RIAA accusations unsettling. (Score:4, Insightful)
What a choice - give us all yer money now, or we'll grind you into poverty for the next x years of your life.
Yeah - I'm sure I'd be ready to sell out quick for a few grand - beats the hell out of working for the RIAA for the next twenty years of my life!
Re:Where have all the ethics gone? Long time passi (Score:1, Insightful)
2. There is a good chance of that. Would your opinion change if they were downloading Mozart?
3. Again, it is the laws themselves that are in question. If downloading a file is effectively free, then why should they pay for it?
4. If the laws were unchanged since the 1800s, it would be high time for a change. Copyright laws were written to prevent unauthorized commercial copying. Technology has made it possible for individuals to copy works for non-commercial purposes. The law should keep pace with technology.
Re:Got them where we want them. (Score:3, Insightful)
You haven't seen the settlement agreement.. You don't get to keep the music. You also don't get to say anything truthfully in your opinion regarding the RIAA. I saw a link to a settlement agreement.
I do wonder if it caries any weight. There is some thing about contracts signed under duress.. Anybody have any information on this? From what I have seen and the size of the pendiing litigation, this is a contract that fully qualifies as signed under duress.
http://www.denvica.com/contracts.html [denvica.com]
"If one of the parties can prove that the contract was signed under duress, that is the party's signature was extracted by physical or mental coercion, then the contract is null and void.
Duress is defined as coercion of a party to execute a contract against the free will of that party."
Some students (Score:2, Insightful)
Or we could do it the old fashioned way with a brick to the head and pick-up truck ride to the landfill. We're already killing thousands of people we don't even know, in countries we can't even pronounce or spell. Why not clean our own backyard before doing our neighbors' ?
And the infringed upon artists are getting...... (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:iTunes (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure. But who are we supposed to vote for?
Re:iTunes (Score:1, Insightful)
Sadly, a lot of them do not, and some of them that do make very uninformed or poor decisions. One of my roommates in college had a brother who turned 18 just in time for the 2004 election. We asked him before the election who he was going to vote for, during a normal conversation. After he responded, we continued along the conversation and asked why he was going to vote for that person. I kid you not, he answered, "Because that is who my mom votes for." He had no idea what the individuals stances were. Unfortunately, this extends beyond the college campus, as there are plenty of people who have voted for the same party all their lives. This is the uninformed world of US politics, where the news would rather cover Anna Nichole Smith's death then something that MATTERS.
Re:So ya see, Jimmy.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:As these CRIMINALS should - guilty - pay the pi (Score:1, Insightful)
But how much longer? I'd like to bet gnutella alone does more trade in a few days than iTunes does in a year. Have you used eDonkey lately? This stuff is way of the control of the RIAA. A lot of it is international. Two things we're never going to stop, child porn and file-sharing.
RIAA and "Ihr Kampf" (Score:3, Insightful)
"Who is the most vulnerable and liable for pirating software, music, etc?"
The manager replies, "Well...college students of course."
And they both have a good laugh.
Truth be told it's not funny, it's real. Here is where the RIAA have separated themselves from the norm
of all those who are strongly opposed to the idea of Internet freedoms, most prevalently piracy. However this
is the worst mistake the RIAA has made, the reason is that college students are their number one customer. The
greed and capitalist values have consumed the RIAA past any rational thought process. Essentially the RIAA has
cut off the hand that feeds them. The sad part is that college students are at the mercy of it all. They can't
afford a lawyer let alone pay their rent. I think we fail to recognize who really are the pirates.
Re:So ya see, Jimmy.... (Score:3, Insightful)
However, most people fear going to court against the RIAA because of the high costs of defending themselves. They know the RIAA is capable of dragging it out and making it very expensive for them. This is where the "extortion" comes in. They are basically saying "settle, or you're going to end up with an even bigger legal fee than the settlement amount - whether you're innocent or not." They ARE threatening taking the person to court, as you said, but NOT because they think they can win the case. The RIAA doesn't really want these cases to go to court. They want people to get scared and take the settlement. Again, not scared of losing, but scared of the legal fees.
Re:hrmm (Score:5, Insightful)
There, fixed that for you. We have to remember to target more of our hatred at the record companies themselves, rather than the RIAA, otherwise the record companies get off scot free.
key word is... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:WTF? Welcome to 1984 (Score:3, Insightful)
But your attack on communism from two posts ago was unwarrented. The government was Ingsol [wikipedia.org], which stood for English Socialism [wikipedia.org]. The tennents of socialism is a state run socio-econmic system. Communism [wikipedia.org], on the other hand, should be noted for having the characteristic of not having different classes. Your ignorance of this fact points out that you obviously didn't notice how the High Party controlled things and left the Party to *think* they were better off then the other guys (the Proles).
The Party was really just the pawns of the High Party, though. The colleges and their students are just pawns of the RIAA.
Maybe I'm drawing the analogy too far... but recall that Winston hears a Prole singing a tune (Part 2, Chapter 4 - Paragraph 4 [online-literature.com]) and thinking she did it more soulfully than the inhumane system that created it? That's what the RIAA doesn't want.
So what's the answer? Empower artists who don't care whether you download their songs by buying their non-RIAA [riaaradar.com] albums and going to their shows.
And stop being ignorant, you insensitive clod!
Re:College Students are Vulnerable (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And this is a surprise because... (Score:3, Insightful)
Hey, Trollie. Wanna be taken seriously? Log the fuck in.
Ok, AC-reprimand completed. Now on to the topic.
Just so you know, copyright isn't property. It doesn't hold the same set of laws as copyright does. So, ah, yeah. Stop talking out of your ass.
Re:And this is a surprise because... (Score:3, Insightful)
2. Every choice you make, and the actions entailed in carrying it out, has consequences. If you find that you are unable to stomach the consequences, perhaps you chose poorly, eh? In the meantime, suck it up. Nobody ever said you were entitled to something just because you wanted it.
Get some perspective.
Re:So ya see, Jimmy.... (Score:3, Insightful)
- Don't like DRM? Buy a CD / Casette tape at a store, or through an online reseller (i.e., Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc.).
- Don't want to spend a lot of money for songs you don't want? Buy a single track online, through iTunes or similar service.
- Hate DRM & want to buy a la carte? Emusic, or some other "DRM-free" online service.
Personally, I prefer purchasing a CD... I can then rip to MP3 for playing on my computer & ipod, and leave the CD stored nicely in my closet. This is a great alternative if you don't want to buy songs with DRM. However, if you don't like paying the $17.99 or more that a single CD will run you these days just to get one song, you can always buy online, burn & re-rip that single song, all for 99 cents, which is surely not unreasonable. Shit, a bottle of Coke costs more than that at your local 7-11.Violating copyright laws by downloading through a P2P filesharing service is not the only way these people have of getting the songs, and your example makes it seem as if it is. While you may not *like* the options available to you, there are reasonable alternatives that allow you to purchase the tracks DRM-free or for a very cheap price, and in some cases, DRM-free AND for a cheap price. This is not to say that copyright laws are good, reasonable, and fair today... but if you violate them -- and surely 99% of the people sharing music online today know it's not kosher -- why would you be surprised when somebody hauls you into court for violating the terms of their copyright? So the lesson here is, don't violate the copyright laws unless you're willing to spend the time & money to be a test case, appealing all the way to the Supreme Court.
And, if DRM is truly a deal-breaker, then put your money where your mouth is: don't purchase, pirate, or listen to ANY music from artists & labels who sell their stuff in DRM'ed formats -- period. Shun them. Boycott them. Make obscene gestures at them. But don't give them a single penny, and don't give them an excuse to sue you for a single penny. Obey the absolute letter of copyright law -- neither a sharer nor a downloader be. Support indie artists & labels which do business in a manner you support; there's tons of them out there, and I'm sure you can find some you'd like, so why not spend your money supporting the arts, rather than supporting an industrial cartel that leaves you and most of the artists they purport to help poorer for the experience? The indie artists & DRM-unfriendly indie labels will gain industry clout, and you'll have the chance to hear new, exciting art, rather than the overwhelmingly sterile "sameness" that you hear on the Top-40 charts & radio today. Everybody benefits, except the RIAA.
Ok but here's the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
So the problem is that I am stuck having to prove my innocence, and that I have to pay a lawyer far more than $5,000 to do it.
THAT is what is wrong with this. We don't know that these people ever broke the law. All we know is that a company who gets paid when they find someone, like BayTSP produced a screenshot from a program that claims ot be a list of files that are allegedly from some IP. I can poke a bunch of holes in the chain of evidence right there:
--How do we know the company isn't lying? They get paid to find these people, it'd be in their interest to make it up if they can't find someone.
--How do we know the information from the P2P program is accurate? These are not vetted, approved forensic tools and some of them are known to make mistakes.
--How do we know the songs in the list are what they claim to be? P2P networks are full of fake material, how do we know these are real?
--How do we know that this is the correct IP address? What if the P2P program or something else reported the wrong one?
--How do we know the ISP gave us the correct person behind it? What if a hacker hand altered the records to cover their tracks? What if an employee at the ISP did?
--How do we know that it was a computer owned by the owner of the connection that did it? What if someone hopped on their wireless network?
--How do we know that the computer that did it wasn't hacked? There are over a million botted computers out there, how do we know this wasn't one of them?
This kind of thing would likely not even make it past pretrial in a criminal case, but in a civil case, you have to pay to defend yourself.
Then, of course, there's also the issue of the whole 8th amendment thing, you know "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." Specifically the "excessive fines" part. They ask for statutory amounts vastly exceeding any real harm caused. You can't tell me that downloading a single tracks causes tens of thousands of dollars of harm and yet that is the kind of amount they ask for, and they are allowed to because of a statute they pushed for. Seems damn unconstitutional to me.
So yes, it IS extortion. They don't care if you are innocent or guilty, they force you to pay because it is too costly to defend yourself, and you risk losing too much. It may be wrapped up in some legislation, it is still extortion.
They did both... (Score:1, Insightful)
They did both. The RIAA went after the services, one-by-one, and now they're going after the infringers, one-by-one. And what happens? Just what we predicted would... for every service they destroy, a new one pops up; for every technological countermeasure they introduce, a counter-counter measure is born; for every person who settles, a ninety year-old, paraplegic mother of two autistic children is swept up in the net and retains council thus making the operation cost more than is obtained. Upshot... until the market gets music their way, on their terms, these mouldering yet still walking dinosaurs will continue to be thrashed in the pages of Slashdot and any other online location frequented by forward looking people.
Re:Where have all the ethics gone? Long time passi (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How long should a wallet inspection take? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How long should a wallet inspection take? (Score:2, Insightful)
***
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
What if I wanted to yell, Slashcode?
Re:College Students are Vulnerable (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't seem to understand that those who are good at writing music are not necessarily good at performing it. If you make performance the sole basis for revenue, you immediately lose the majority of interesting songwriters (random radio tripe "songwriters" are not affected, since they can be employed on a salaried basis by managers).
Do you know who wrote Elvis' songs? Do you know who wrote the music for "My Way"? Ever heard Lee Hazlewood (by any standards an awesome songwriter) sing? According to you, society would have been better off if all those people had been flipping burgers rather than devoting their time to writing songs. Sorry, but I don't buy it.
Re:As these CRIMINALS should - guilty - pay the pi (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, you are probably too lazy to do that, so I'll make it easier for you:
http://www.co.klamath.or.us/DistrictAttorney/crim