Economic Analysis of Toilet Seat Position

Ant writes "The Science Creative Quarterly has published an economic analysis of The Social Norm of Leaving the Toilet Down, employing game theory. This analysis is more thorough than preceding ones cited (from 2002 and 2005), as it factors in the cost of yelling. Both men and women can take some comfort in the conclusion though neither may in the end be satisfied.

Re:Academic detachment

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

just get a traditional asian toilet, ie a hole in the ground you have to squat over.

I fear that I have to point out that a hole in the ground is the traditional toilet for all cultures.

Re:What about the lid?

[_vSyncBomb]

This is a moot point in my household; both the seat and lid stay closed. Even when my girlfriend is out of town. That's because if you don't shut the toilet before you flush, a massive cloud of tiny invisible particles of fecal matter and other nastoids comes shooting out of the toilet in all directions, coating you, the bathroom, and anything else in its path (like say, your toothbrush, if you don't leave it in the medicine cabinet or somewhere sheltered).

This was documented in a mildly famous study by Charles Gerba [arizona.edu]. It has been amusingly dubbed the F3: the Fecal Fountain Factor [brynmawr.edu].

Now, tiny droplets of shit and piss water won't kill you--if you are healthy, you could likely french kiss your toilet seat and not get sick, but that doesn't mean you wanna. I find the mere knowlege that, if I don't shut the toilet first, I will be bathed an a microscopic shit shower to be sufficiently unappealing that I always do so. And, this way is equitable to all parties involved--no matter if you are a stander, or a sitter, you still have to lift the lid to use the toilet.

Luckily, the ages-old controversy is being brought back by the Japanese. New toilets there have infrared sensors that detect your approach and lift the lid and/or seat for you. Sounds ridiculous, but once you get used to it (that is, use it once), you come around to liking it. And happily, this technology reignites the debate with your female counterpart: you can argue about whether Mr. Smarty Toilet should be programmed to lift the lid, or both lid and seat. That is, until they come up with the next generation of toilets than can differentiate between individual people...

Re:What about the lid?

[travdaddy]

The reason I do the same thing (close both the seat and lid) is so the cat won't drink out of the toilet. She has bad enough breath as it is!

Re:I demand new and interesting ways to have a shi

[grahamlee]

Thomas Crapper neither invented the flushing toilet, nor was the noun 'crap' created after his name.

Until you shit all over your shoes.

[Anonymous Coward]

I went to Japan on business with a few co-workers once. On the way to an important meeting, one of the fellows had to take a crap. So we found a public washroom, and apparently it had a squat toilet. To keep the story short, he came out a few minutes later with diarrhea all over his pants and shoes. He said it just sprayed out all over the place because he was squatting. Needless to say, he didn't attend the meeting.

Re:What's the big deal..

[Anonymous Coward]

Generally speaking if you talk to people who clean public toilets they always say the women's room is worse.

Maybe it's different in an office bathroom, I don't know.

Re:Leave the toilet cover down. problem solved

[chudnall]

Yes. and if you're a man who finds himself being nagged about the seat position, this creates the perfect defense. The same women who go ballistic about an occasional toilet seat slip-up will *never* actually change their own habits. The conversation with my wife went something like this:

she: You left the seat up last night, you insensitive clod! I almost fell in the toilet!
me: I'm sorry, I usually lower both the seat and the lid, but I must have forgotten last night.
she: Well, you should be more attentive!
me: Yes, I should, but if you were to make a habit of lowering the lid each time, as I've asked you to on
        numerous occasions, then you would always automatically check it, and never suffer such a mishap.
        Have you *ever* lowered the lid after using the toilet?
she: I don't see what that has to do with anything!
me: It is very relevant because if you cannot be bothered to ever do such a simple thing as lowering the
        lid, how can you expect something close to perfection from me in lowering the seat?
she: er, uh...

She never brought up the issue again, even though I probably still do forget every once in a while. Guys, this is your one chance to outright, slam-dunk, win an argument with the missus, and take an issue she has hanging over your head, and turn it around straight back at her. Just start putting the lid down.

Re:What about the lid?

[DeadChobi]

I, too, share your pain of having a fucking tiny bathroom. And the reason you close the shower curtain after every shower is that it mildews if you don't. I've seen it happen quite a few times. When you're poor enough, everything beyond food and bills becomes a major expense, so you either buy a new curtain every 6 months or you close it after you're done.

Re:The Unconsidered Factor

[Anonymous Coward]

You can do that? I can't piss sitting down when I got an erection, really sucks when I have a crap as more often or not I need to make it a double, and thus would endup pissing everywhere. Pretty much have to wait it out or jackoff to get the bad boy out of the way.

Re:It's the first time i hear this ...!

[hackstraw]

There is something very weird about the USA. You are a completely ANAL society.

I'll agree and disagree. I think Japan has us beat for being ANAL by a long shot. I mean, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan [wikipedia.org] for example.

I will say that I think that Americans are a little fussy on the clean side.

Re:It's the first time i hear this ...!

[HobophobE]

Here [telegraph.co.uk] is a 2004 article detailing a German invention designed to reprimand men for lifting the toilet seat.

According to this [earthclinic.com] list of prostate health suggestions sitting to piss helps to completely empty the bladder.

And here [thisnext.com] is an example of a 'no pissing while standing' sign.

Of course the issue cuts both ways with the P-Mate [femalefreedom.ca], and other techniques [cabaretvoltaire.com] to enable women to evacuate while standing.

While I'll agree that society (including US) has tendencies to over-obsessing about bodily functions I don't think they are any worse than suggesting that it's wrong for a man to piss whilst seated. Next thing you'll tell me is that I'm wrong to be disgusted when I see other guys leave a restroom without washing their hands (or just doing the quick, no-soap rinse).

I'm not some fanatic about germs, but personal hygiene is important. As far as sitting to piss, I generally stand. I'll sit if I feel like it.