Economic Analysis of Toilet Seat Position 473
Ant writes "The Science Creative Quarterly has published an economic analysis of The Social Norm of Leaving the Toilet Down, employing game theory. This analysis is more thorough than preceding ones cited (from 2002 and 2005), as it factors in the cost of yelling. Both men and women can take some comfort in the conclusion though neither may in the end be satisfied.
What about the lid? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What's the big deal.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Solve your problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Among its various additional benefits, squatting really helps pushing out number-two's.
The Unconsidered Factor (Score:3, Insightful)
Men are lazy, and when they need to take a leak, they might decide to try out their aim with the seat down rather than take the effort to raise it. Sometimes they miss, leaving urine for you to sit on. Leave the toilet seat up. It's in your best hygienic interest to do so.
This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine... (Score:5, Insightful)
However, if you are living together and sharing a space, then insisting that the toilet seat be down (or up, for that matter, although I've never encountered that) is simply a selfish insistence that your needs are more important than your partner's. Consider: when a man wants to pee, if the toilet seat is down, he must first put it up, or the seat will end up with drops of urine on it, which no one (including the man) wants. When a woman wants to pee, if the toilet seat is up, she must put it down, because she cannot sit on the rim.
Because each wants something different, the fair way to handle it is to simply put it down (or up) as required. Men put it down, women put it up. The distribution of labor is fair, everyone has to put it up or down sometimes and not at other times.
The insistence that it always be down, however, essentially amounts to the woman shirking her share of the toilet-seat-state-changing responsibility. She is saying that she doesn't feel that she should ever need to put the toilet seat down or up, and that you, the man, are responsible for putting it both up and down.
Men are frequently inconvenienced by a woman leaving the toilet seat down -- if you show up in the middle of the night, and it's dark, and you really have to go, it's a bit of a pain to always have to feel to see if the seat is up or down before you let it all out. Isn't this exactly the argument most often used by women? Why is it a valid argument coming from them, and not from us? The simple answer is that she wants it her way, and is unable to compromise, and for some reason feels as though society has vindicated her opinion on the matter.
To me, a woman who insists on having the toilet seat down, who cannot take the trouble to put it down if it is up, exactly as I must take the trouble to put it up if it is down, is clearly an example of a selfish, controlling personality who will cause you problems in the long run. And actually, there's a broader theme here: if you're the sort of person, regardless of your gender, who expects other people to conform completely to your habits and norms without considering that in a relationship, everyone needs to change their habits somewhat in order to make things work, then you're probably a shitty significant other. The kind I tend to dump after three weeks, if even.
The fact that some women are even under the impression that insisting that the toilet seat always be down to convenience them is in any way right-thinking at all completely boggles my mind. I don't watch football, but to leverage another cliché as an analogy: it would be like insisting that any time she watches TV that she put it back on ESPN when she's done.
This has turned into a rant, but here's a piece of advice for men who respect themselves: if she starts throwing a shit fit about the toilet seat, dump her. I'm serious. It's the tip of the iceberg, and you'll end up unhappy in the long run.
Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (Score:3, Insightful)
When we look for a job, many of us us the Dilbert principle. If there are a few Dilbert cartoons on the cubes, work there. If there are a lot or none, don't. (None means that management won't allow them, and people are scared, too many means the company is seriously pooched.) This is a rule. No matter how nice things look, if it doesn't pass the Dilbert test, we don't take it.
The toilet seat thing seems just as useful and important or more so. If she doesn't immediately see that there shouldn't be an issue there, run.
Re:What about the lid? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What's the big deal.. (Score:3, Insightful)
That may work in a bathroom that isn't used by strangers. Not in a public restroom, though. Have you ever been in a public women's toilet stall? They're worse than men. Ask a woman about it, and she'll explain that some women "hover" over the seat. They have basically no directional control, which means the seat gets soaked. Nobody's gonna sit on a wet seat, so the next woman has to hover, too. Don't ask me why they can't put the seat up. I'm guessing it's a matter of principle.
Solution (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem with the whole toilet thing is that sit-down toilets are not designed for men at all.
They are far too low for the height of an average man, which means we are pissing really far, and spray is almost inevitable now and again. Toilets are designed for the lowest common denominator: women and children. Both are shorter than men, and tend to sit.
The solution is simple: urinals should be installed as standard in homes. That way, men can piss in an appropriately masculine way without getting it everywhere, and only sit on the toilet to defecate. Women and children are welcome to keep sitting. The man of the house can keep his own urinal clean (much easier than cleaning a sit-down toilet), the toilet seat can be permanently down, and the bitch can shut up and stop her whining!
Or... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What's the big deal.. (Score:2, Insightful)
You pee and don't have pressure to aim correctly or have to faff holding clothing out of the way or anything.
A shower pee is similar to the outdoor pee - just make sure you don't piss into the wind.
Re:What about people who have dogs? (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude!
[John]
Re:What about the lid? (Score:3, Insightful)
Closing the lid also does a good job of muffling the flush noise.
Re:What's the big deal.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope it's the typical thing of the nasty minority (like fundies in religions) making a huge ruckus, because it boggles my mind that an entire nation of people would have this argument.
Re:What's the big deal.. (Score:4, Insightful)
fun topic (Score:4, Insightful)
toilet seat. we need it up, you need it down. You're a big girl now, learn to work the seat.
The common man's argument is that we sometimes need it up and sometimes need it down, so we have learned how to use the seat. (you rarely hear of a guy "falling in", and if he did, he certainly wouldn't try to find someone to blame for it, let alone even admit to having fallen in in the first place) Women OTOH who have lived in families or with roommates in an exclusively women household have lost this important life skill of operating the seat, since it is always down. (when visiting friends houses with exclusively women, it's a fun social experiment to slip into the bathroom and lift the lid and run out, and wait for someone to fall in, the screams and resulting argument are always fun to watch!)
A good example to draw is drive to a small town and park your car out front of your friend's house (in a spot where parking is permitted) and go in for a chat. BOOM someone just ran into your car. You run out to find someone rear-ended your parked car, and is upset at you for having left your car there, there isn't usually a car parked there and therefore it's all your fault. Same thing.
Just because you are not acustomed to something being different than you expect, does not negate your responsibility to identify reasonable (and sometimes even frequently occurring) change and adjust your behavior accordingly. Take responsibility for your actions, don't blame me.
Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What's the big deal.. (Score:3, Insightful)
If there is a lid, I put it down too. It hides the nasty bowl that I ever clean and its not realy that much work. that and I have a 2 year old running around
In the public restrooms, I leave the seat up. too many downies piss all over the seat and i would rather my seat was drip free when I sat on it.
I did that to keep the dog out (Score:5, Insightful)
All the women who used the toilet in those 5 years, every single one of them, left the lid up.
In comparison, about half the guys lowered the lid. Make of this what you will.
Re:What about the lid? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What about the lid? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:One thing I never understood... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (Score:3, Insightful)
If the toilet seat is the only battle you fight in your relationship, then I don't really think you have a problem. Get over it. I think people are allowed one or two pet peeves.
If it is, as you say, just the tip of the iceberg then I mostly agree with what you are saying, but if you are judging her purely on her preference or insistence that the seat stay down when not in use, then I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself. If it's really a control thing there will be other (and much more unreasonable) examples.
Re:The Unconsidered Factor (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What's the big deal.. (Score:4, Insightful)
What, you don't carry a Swiss army knife at all times?
Seriously though, sometimes all it takes is to grab the seat and wiggle it away from the tank. If it's mounted any tighter than that, and it's not yours, well then it really isn't your problem, is it? It will soon be pushed back as far as it will go by the cumulative impact of people sitting on it, but at least it won't annoy you any more for that particular visit.
Mal-2
Re:What's the big deal.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:sit down to piss (Score:2, Insightful)
When you turn on a firehose attached to a dinghy it will fly out of control.
When you turn on a firehose attached to a barge it generally doesn't affect the direction of the barge.
Just sayin'.
Re:What about the lid? (Score:1, Insightful)