NC Man Fined For Using Vegetable Oil As Fuel 909
mdsolar writes "The News and Observer reports on an Charlotte, NC driver who has been fined $1000 for not paying a fuel tax when he fills his tank with vegetable oil. Perhaps the funniest quote is this one: '"With the high cost of fuel right now, the department does recognize that a lot of people are looking for relief," said Reggie Little, assistant director of the motor fuel taxes division. "We're not here to hurt the small guy, we're just trying to make sure that the playing field is level."' Sure, since the field is so plainly tilted against Arab oil interests."
Arab Oil interests? (Score:5, Informative)
That's a cheap shot at Arabs. And untrue. Did you know [doe.gov] that the top 2 sources of crude oil are Canada and Mexico? Followed by Saudi Arabia and Venezuela? 3 of the top 4 sources of oil are non-Arab.
Re:they were hunting for biofuel users to fine (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Regardless (Score:3, Informative)
Re:humor? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:How are they supposed to know? (Score:3, Informative)
Many states fine you for driving with heating oil (Score:5, Informative)
Back when I lived in New Jersey, I had oil heat, and if I'd forgotten to check the oiltank dipstick in a while and ran out of oil at night, I could get a can of diesel at the gas station to restart my furnace until the oil people could get there. It was really convenient.
Re:Solar power and an electric car (Score:3, Informative)
--
Convert to solar power for what you pay now: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-user
Re:Hell hath NO fury (Score:3, Informative)
The government needs money to provide everything that it provides -- a common defense, support for those who can't afford it, transportation infrastructure, education, and so forth. We could debate all day what it *should* provide, but that's not the issue here. Even the most hardcore libertarians want the government to at least provide for a common defense.
Well, how does the government pay for that? It doesn't need a one-time influx of cash; it needs a regular influx of cash. Obviously.
The most equitable way to do this would be to have everything of value slowly trickle a small amount of its value to the government. Obviously, that's not going to happen. So, instead, we have this compromise system based on taxation at the time of transactions. It approximates, roughly, a constant income stream to the government which, in turn provides for a common defense and so forth.
This notion of "double" or "triple" taxation somehow being unfair belies a complete misunderstanding of the process. John has a personal business that makes widgets. Sam buys a widget from him. Sam pays taxes -- single taxation. Now John pays taxes on his business -- there's double taxation! Now John gets paid by his business, but the government gets a cut. Triple taxation! Now Sam buys something with his income. Quadruple taxation! And on and on it goes. Why? Because, obviously, a one-time influx of cash into the government just won't cut it.
Re:So what? It's North Carolina... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Arab Oil interests? (Score:3, Informative)
Well, yes, if you aggregate all Arabic-speaking countries as a single source, but don't aggregate, say, all the Spanish-speaking countries as a single source, you can argue that the #1 source is "Arab oil". If however, you aggregate all the Spanish-speaking countries, it becomes clear the #1 source is "Hispanic oil". I rather fail to see how aggregating one group and not the other is to "be fair".
Yes, if you count decidedly non-Arab countries (Venezuela, Nigeria, Angola, Gabon) as Arab, you can prove Arab oil is a majority source. And if you count a dog's tail as a leg, it has five legs.
What happens if you buy it from a gas station (Score:5, Informative)
I imagine he's being hit by the same kind of statute that would stop you using red or farm diesel in your car.
Re:Hell hath NO fury (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Arab Oil interests? (Score:3, Informative)
So counting our domestic oil production, over 70% our oil comes from "non-Arab" sources.
Fuel Tax is Voluntary. (Score:1, Informative)
Re:No mistake about it. (Score:5, Informative)
From the article, The state Department of Revenue, which fined Teixeira, has asked legislators to waive the $2,500 bond for small fuel users. The department also told Teixeira, after the Observer asked about his case this week, that it will compromise on his fine.
So Big Brother has asked Big Brother to fix a stupid law. Big Brother is also willing to compromise on Big Brother's cut. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Re:Regardless (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ask a long-haul Trucker about NC taxes! (Score:4, Informative)
Phil
Driving on public roads using untaxed farm fuel .. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ask a long-haul Trucker about NC taxes! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ask a long-haul Trucker about NC taxes! (Score:2, Informative)
Source: http://www.landlinemag.com/Archives/2006/Jul2006/
Re:Many states fine you for driving with heating o (Score:2, Informative)
Also, you aren't even allowed to import any of those aforementioned vehicles into the USA, unless you are immigrating to the USA and already own one. All sorts of taxes, regulations and whatnot to make quite sure of that.
You should try looking up how the Brazilians do it. Sugar cane ethanol. They have trucks, let alone cars, there, that have been recorded at 46-75 mpg. Then read up on why the USA charges an exorbitant import and production tax on cane sugar, and cane sugar ethanol, to the point that you lose money on every drop of that particular flavor of ethanol that you would import or produce domestically, so that a gallon of sugar cane ethanol is more than four times the cost of a gallon of oil-based gasoline. The cost to manufacture, from seed to distilling into ethanol, costs quite a bit less in energy and dollars than it does to even pump a full tank of standard gasoline into the tank of an average SUV (let alone produce it). You'd almost think that the oil companies through their purchased government representatives might have had a say in those import taxes on cane ethanol eh?
Re:Changes to the law in the UK (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Many states fine you for driving with heating o (Score:3, Informative)
Most of that is tax.
The American car market is very different to the rest of the world - the scenic (and as large I was meaning the largest within its range as there is more than one model) is a very comfortably sized family car - most family cars here have very good fuel economy.
The cars with poor economy are not the large family cars, its SUVs, some sports cars and luxury cars with over sized engines. SUVs are unnecessary in the UK in almost all areas - especially cities, the other cars are expensive. If you want to pay so much for your car then you can pay for the fuel to run it - and the tax on that fuel.
No one is forcing people to drive such cars - and a pay as you spend system of tax is far fairer than a pay as you earn.
As for me? Well the last car I had was an older, larger car. A volvo S80, still does far better to the gallon than most US cars.
Re:Many states fine you for driving with heating o (Score:2, Informative)
For many pollutants, using a grease/oil like vegetable oil is actually LESS polluting than using fuel oil or diesel, and for some pollutants, it's on a similar clean-burning level to natural gas. IIRC, grease/oil will emit a higher amounts of particulates (i.e. soot) but lower amounts of nitrogen oxides and carbon monoxide (versus fuel oil/diesel).
Re:Sales tax isn't regressive (Score:4, Informative)
Sales tax is regressive because if you are poor, sales tax is a greater percentage of your income (i.e. a greater burden) than if you are rich. While you may buy more goods total if you are rich, the percentage of sales tax stays the same.
For example, say there are two people buying a car, Richard (who is wealthy) and Paul (who is poor).
Even though Paul spends $40,000 LESS on his cars, he's still paying 5 TIMES the percentage of his income. $1000 for Paul is 5 times the burden that $3000 is for Richard. Do you see why sales tax is regressive?
In contrast, federal income tax is progressive because the percentage increases as your income increases.
Re:Many states fine you for driving with heating o (Score:2, Informative)
-Brandon
Re:Sales tax isn't regressive (Score:5, Informative)
Using just the car is a bad example. First - it's not an annual purchase.
We have the issue where 'rich' is more a statement of assets available more than it's a statement of income. Sure, if you make a million bucks a year you're 'rich' - But we still have 'millionaires' declaring bankruptcy. A large income helps, but it's not a guarantee. Just look at comparative debt loads.
Now, by the arguement that Richard is likely NOT spending all of his money while John is, would be an arguement that the sales tax is regressive. Still, if Richard goes hog wild while John is a careful spender, Richard can still end up paying a higher percentage of income as sales tax vs John.
Look at it as an encouragement to save. Which is a good thing.
*Restaurant food is generally subject to sales tax, while food from a market generally isn't.
Re:What happens if you buy it from a gas station (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What happens if you buy it from a gas station (Score:4, Informative)
Biodiesel != running on vegetable oil. You can run B100 from a cold start in an unmodified diesel engine, without the slightest bit of trouble. You can even use it in post-2007 diesels that require ULSD (<15ppm sulphur), as biodiesel has effectively no sulphur.
Now, buidiesel does have a higher gelling point than dinodiesel, but that just means you need to thin it in the winter (kerosene works wonders, though here in the NorthEast you'll probably need to run B20 at best in the winter).
As for the more on-topic issue here of "should he get a fine for evading fuel taxes"... If you brew your own beer, you don't need to pay the alcohol tax on it. Why wouldn't noncommercial low-volume biodiesel production fall into the category?