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Putting Canadian Piracy in Perspective 188

Posted by Zonk
from the those-canuck-bandits-will-get-you dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Over the past year Slashdot has pointed to many industry claims and governmental pressure over Canada piracy issues. Canadian law prof Michael Geist has produced Putting Canadian 'Piracy' in Perspective, a video that demonstrates how the claims are hugely exaggerated. For example, it shows how despite the MPAA's claim of movie piracy, Canada was the industry's fastest growing market last year. Similarly, while the recording industry says Canada is the world's top P2P country, the data shows that the Canadian music industry is experiencing record gains and that most of the decline from the major labels is due to retail pricing pressures."
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Putting Canadian Piracy in Perspective

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  • by ScrewMaster (602015) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @06:39PM (#19843727)
    the media companies are lying to us.

    That's a huge surprise.
    • by Original Replica (908688) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @06:50PM (#19843835) Journal
      It might be lying or it might be delusion, it's probably both. The music giants are falling, but they don't understand why. They got rich running things a certain way, and they are still running things that way, but now they are losing money. They are desperate to find a reason for this that still allows for their huge paychecks. If they could charge $25 for a CD in 1997 why are people saying that's overpriced in 2007? It must be the pirates. if they aren't stealing the music why do they care if it's copy protected? They must be pirates.
      • Re: (Score:2, Redundant)

        by Alphager (957739)

        It might be lying or it might be delusion, it's probably both. The music giants are falling, but they don't understand why. They got rich running things a certain way, and they are still running things that way, but now they are losing money.
        No, they are _NOT_ loosing money. Sony BMG hat over 5 Billions in revenue in 2005 (http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/135/135429.html)
        • by AndersOSU (873247)
          Loosing money == decreasing share price. If the share price decreases the people that own the company are losing money, even if the company is only earning money at a slightly slower rate.

          Looking at SONY/BMG is a little tricky because the parent companies do a bit more than music. However, if you look at how EMI has done in the last 5 years (and I'd argue that SONY/BMG has probably performed similarly): http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EMI&t=5y [yahoo.com] you'll notice that if you owned stock you would have lost
          • by Alphager (957739)
            Stock-price does not depend on the business at all (look at the inflated stock-prices for some of the new startups); using it as a measurement of a company loosing money is stupid. Also, the distinction between "business is loosing money" and "shareholders are loosing money" has to be made.
            • by AndersOSU (873247)
              It might be stupid, but for a publicly traded company a share holder is at best only indirectly interested in things like revenue, profits, and market cap.

              In other words the only reason that the people controlling the direction of the business will make a change is if they foresee a decrease (or not rapid enough increase) in stock price. The question ultimately isn't will this make us money, the question is will this change cause our perceived value to increase.

              The start up example is a bit of a red herrin
        • by Rolgar (556636)
          Revenue is not profit or loss, and I couldn't find expense numbers to figure out if they are or are not making money. Also, 2005 numbers are a bit dated.
        • by mcvos (645701)
          Revenue is not the same as profit. Some time ago I heard (but I can't back it up with sources) that Sony's games division was their only division that was making a profit.
  • by Chikenistheman (992447) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @06:45PM (#19843793)
    . . . Living the American dream.
  • A bit offtopic (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jawtheshark (198669) * <(moc.krahsehtwaj) (ta) (todhsals)> on Thursday July 12, 2007 @06:48PM (#19843819) Homepage Journal

    Years ago, I found my sister buying Audio CD-Rs. I asked her why she bought those to burn her music, after all a normal CD wouldn't make a difference and the Audio CD-Rs were more expensive due to the levy of the music industry. Turned out she didn't know that data CDs could be used to copy music. I explained her that the only reason Audio CD-Rs exist is for non-computer burners and that she pays a "tax" by buying those.

    The reaction was: Hey, that's cool... because of this tax my pirating is legal

    Now aside form how true that statement is, my sister is an actual music lover and now that she is employed, she is in the process of buying every single CD she copied (and liked, of course) in her student years. Did I mention that she's an audio engineer now?

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Steve Newall (24926)
      I believe that audio CD-R's were more expensive simply because not so many were produced. There is a levy on ALL blank recording media sold in Canada

      See http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html [cb-cda.gc.ca] for the list from copyright board of Canada.

      • Is this actually being paid out by manufacturers/importers? I ask because I keep seeing CD-R media for extremely low prices which makes this hard to believe. From the link you provided:

        In fact, in volume terms, most CDs used to copy music are "ordinary" CD-Rs and CD-RWs (subject to a levy of 21c), not "Audio" products (subject to a levy of 77c).

        But just a cursory look shows that you can buy CD-Rs [ncix.com] for $0.264 each, meaning that they're actually selling these discs for 5.4 cents each, assuming that the l
  • by CastrTroy (595695) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @06:49PM (#19843827) Homepage
    Finally, we have proof. Ok, not really proof, but here's some data to back up what we've been saying all along. Piracy is not the opposite of a healthy media marketplace. It actually helps to improve the market place. Piracy gives people better access to media that they would otherwise not get to see. They see it, and sometimes buy a legitimate copy. Many times they don't buy a legit copy, but if they never knew about it in the first place, then you can guarantee that they aren't going to buy it.
    • Piracy gives people better access to media that they would otherwise not get to see.

      Assuming they're not just pirating the stuff they know and like, that is (most people are very conservative). IMO sites like Pandora are much better in this regard.

      Many times they don't buy a legit copy, but if they never knew about it in the first place, then you can guarantee that they aren't going to buy it.

      That's actually my argument against piracy: top 50 music, expensive full release films and television shows are heav
      • That's actually my argument against piracy: top 50 music, expensive full release films and television shows are heavily advertised already, to the point where you practically have to live in a cave to avoid them;

        I guess I live in a cave. I own somewhere around 500 legitimately purchased DVDs. The VAST majority of them I had no idea existed before I purchased them. I use peer recommendations and the Internet to get suggestions and then go read a bunch of reviews so see if I think I would like it. I buy them
    • by thc69 (98798)

      Ok, not really proof, but here's some data to back up what we've been saying all along. Piracy is not the opposite of a healthy media marketplace. It actually helps to improve the market place.

      Finally, someone other than me who has observed that revenues and profit follow piracy.

      Your observation is correct, but I think your theory is a little off. Sure, piracy introduces people to some music they haven't heard; but in my experience, it's a more general excitement about music and about acquiring music. I kno

  • Exchange rates... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by going_the_2Rpi_way (818355) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @07:02PM (#19843949) Homepage
    Unfortunately I was unable to view the video at work, however it's worth noting for those that may not realize it that even a Canadian 'market' with no growth at all is probably almost 10% larger this year than last, when valued in U.S. dollars, by virtue of the change in exchange rates.
  • by Tarlus (1000874) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @07:04PM (#19843957)

    Putting Canadian Piracy in Perspective
    Yaaarrrrr, eh? *Runs away*
  • by BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @07:19PM (#19844047) Journal
    It's all RIAA/MPAA-manufactured crap to convince shill politicians to pass pro-MPAA/RIAA laws. Here's a story published in Australia yesterday accusing it of the same thing:

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/digital-music/pirates-l ike-us/2007/07/11/1183833529685.html [smh.com.au]

    China has the right idea. Keep a steamroller mothballed, ready to pull out for the bi-annual "Drive over some CDs" Show.
  • So this is why most of music releases are being overcompressed to the hilt. Producers are trying to match the Canadian records' gains!
  • Killing the Goose (Score:2, Insightful)

    by EEPROMS (889169)
    The record and movie industry in my view in their attempt to control "all culture" at the same time have basically been shooting themselves in the foot. Im a perfect example, I dont have time to listen to the radio anymore so I download podcasts then listen to them when I get the time. Thhe media companies have restricted music to such a degree on podcasts that I now dont have a clue what the latest music trends are. If your name or brand or your product isnt being hear or seen by the consumers your dead in
  • Media Tax (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Propaganda13 (312548) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @07:35PM (#19844167)
    I thought Canadians were already paying media tax on blank media (cdr, hard drives, etc) to make up for piracy. In that case, you should be able to pirate in Canada. Otherwise, CRIAA is just making money off you for no reason.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by phatvw (996438)
      Its actually a levy, not a tax. Tax implies a payment to the Government whereas a levy is a payment accepted by the government on behalf of a 3rd party. I know, its kinda dumb.

      More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy [wikipedia.org]
      • by gstoddart (321705)

        Its actually a levy, not a tax. Tax implies a payment to the Government whereas a levy is a payment accepted by the government on behalf of a 3rd party. I know, its kinda dumb.

        Semantics aside, as a consumer, it increases my cost at the cash register.

        Tax. Levy. Cash Grab. Extortion. WTF do I care what they call it? It feels like tax in that increases my overall costs and is mandated by the friggin' government and enforced by law.

        The fact that a 'trade group' managed to convince my government to impose i

    • "CRIAA is just making money off you for no reason" not if you keep your movies/music on USB keys, flash cards or hard drives, which aren't taxed (yet) you have to burn stuff to over-priced CD's to be a legal pirate in Canada.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by FreeKill (1020271)
      It's true! The tax is something like $0.21 a CD/DVD and I believe that portable music players like ipods are also taxed. The tax rakes in a huge amount of cash too, something in the neighborhood of $150 million a year. That's equivalent to roughly $5.00 a year per Canadian citizen. I also believe the amount they take in is quite a bit more than the estimated losses due to piracy, but I am not 100% sure on that...
      • by dryeo (100693)
        My son got a cheap MP3 player for last Christmas. Noticed it came with one song on it so it is not blank media.
        I'm sure lots of small artists would happily allow their music to come preinstalled on blank media just for the exposure.
    • by djmurdoch (306849)
      Not hard drives, and not to make up for piracy: as compensation to the artists for the right to make private copies. You can't legally pirate music in Canada, but you can legally make copies for your own use. (Piracy would be making copies to sell.)

      And CRIA doesn't get the levy (though its members get a small proportion of it). Mostly it goes to the artists' collectives, such as SOCAN, etc., and some proportion of it is eventually distributed to the artists.

      Mod this redundant, because I've posted it bef
  • I'm glad I RTFA this time around. I'm headed to Vancouver in a week, and I had been wondering what sort of measures I need to take against all these swashbuckling Canucks. Thankfully, it seems the problem is smaller than anticipated. Still, I wonder why the customs agent kept saying "Yarr..." during our phone conversation.
  • Canadian subsidies (Score:5, Informative)

    by MushMouth (5650) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @07:51PM (#19844319) Homepage
    Don't forget that canada has a whole lot of controls to make sure that the canadian musician gets more airplay, and has more subsidies than they do in the US (The government will sponsor your tour, and the radio must play X% canadian music). Sadly due to the polarization of the US culture such grants can't really be given. I can already hear the howling from the bible belt if someone like Stephan Merritt received a subsidy for 69 Love Songs, let alone someone like Ludicris, or from San Francisco if Amy Grant were granted cash for one of her bible records.
    Also the current crop of Canadian musical talent/popularity (not necessarily the same thing) is higher than it has been at any time since Rush, Loverboy, and Gordon Lightfoot stopped making records (at least south of the border, I don't know what is going on North of it, other than everyone likes The Tragically Hip and Sloan).
    Some bands that have taken off in the past few years include, but are not limited by (mostly of the "indie" variety, and in SF will sell out at least a 1000 seat venue)....
    • Arcade Fire (Currently HUGE, although not as canadian as they would like you to believe, as the main songwriter is from Texas, and they recorded their first record at his grandparents summer home in midcoast Maine, but they still qualify for subsidies)
    • Broken Social Scene (also include many of their side projects other than those listed below)
    • Feist (she is a part time member of above, and is currently selling out her US tour)
    • New Pornographers (also members A.C. Newman, and Destroyer)
    • Stars (big last summer)
    • Metric (big last summer)
    • The Dears
    • Wolf Parade
    • The Constantines
    • Death From Above 1979
    • Tegan and Sara
    • Nickleback (while I don't know what they sound like, they do seem to be on HDNet all the time)
      On top of that there are another slew of bands quite popular up there, (they can actually make a living playing music) that rarely make it down here.
    • by Durrok (912509)
      Thanks for the music suggestions, I'm going to go check and see what I can download. Don't worry, I'm not Canadian so I won't contribute to your hideous piracy rate. :p
    • by shma (863063)
      Arcade Fire (Currently HUGE, although not as canadian as they would like you to believe..)

      You know, I'm not sure how it works in the US, but once someone moves to Canada, and lives in Canada, and marries a Canadian [wikipedia.org], we tend to treat them as if they were Canadians. Not to mention that most of the band is from Canada. Besides, you could easily make the same argument about the New Pornographers, seeing as vocalist Neko Case is from the US (she even has her own solo career [nekocase.com]).

      Sorry about the rant, but as
      • by MushMouth (5650)
        Is that you Winn?

        I know you like the idea of being Quebecois, but you aren't and never will be Leonard Cohen, your just a dude that is really tall and stole some guy's basketball in Berkeley. BTW you should have claimed you are a Mainer, that is so much cooler.

        Last time I check Wayne Gretzky lived in Arizona and is married to an American woman.

    • Some of us, quite sensibly, would wonder why the heck its the government's business that Avril Lavigne is getting less airplay than her corporate backers paid for. (Oh, these grants were supposed to be given to struggling small artists, as opposed to the folks who pay the lobbyists. Right. Sorry about that. OK, why the heck should the government support Working Mothers of Slamdancing Elephants? Its not like we are suffering a market failure of undersupply of music. There is plenty of it out there, for
      • by kent_eh (543303)
        The reasoning behind the Canadian content rules for radio goes something like this:

        If we don't do something to give our homegrown musicians some help being heard over the noise coming from south of the border, then they'll all starve.

        Or something like that.

        Back when these rules came in, there was no Canadian music industry. only Canadian branches of American music companies. Their job wasn't A&R. They were strictly about promoting the artists that they already had signed.
        All the A&R was happening in

  • Canada No. 1? (Score:5, Informative)

    by MikeHunt69 (695265) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @08:08PM (#19844427) Journal
    Canada is number 1 for piracy? Funny thing is, a couple of days ago the Australian media ran a story [theage.com.au] that ranks Britian 1st, Australia 2nd and the US is 3rd in online piracy. And I personally think that none of those countries could hold a candle to some of the eastern countries - china/thailand/etc. Maybe that's a new strategy!

    Step 1 : Get the local media of each country to tell the people that they are the worst pirates in the world
    Step 2 : ??
    Step 3 : Profit!
    • by iogan (943605)
      You know, that's funny, because in the last couple of days there's been lots of stories that my country is the worst for piracy (Sweden). Anybody read Chinese well enough to see what crap they're being fed?
      • and the fools are still in print.

        We can SEE all these #1 ratings, (in localized e-copies of 'print' issues,) all contradicting each other, so we can deduce that we're being fed a load of crap.

        And then the **AAs wonder why we don't believe them... :-)
  • >Similarly, while the recording industry says Canada is the world's top P2P country

    Since I paid those starving musician wages when I purchased blank cd's to backup my photos and my server data I sure as hell will be downloading LEGALY all the music I find worth downloading.
    • by necro2607 (771790)
      Heh, even as one of these "starving musicians", I actually completely fucking agree. After all the stacks of CDRs I've paid a levy on (oh which BTW my band has not seen a penny of despite being SOCAN members and having an internationally-sold CD), these anti-piracy types can go to hell.
  • There is so much better music imo from independant and small labels and musicians that I don't have time to listen to or even consider buying almost anything from the companies that make up the RIAA.

    There's an entire internet covering an entire planet of millions of talented musicians who would be ecstatic over the idea of you downloading their mp3s and listening to them completely for free.

    I am going to stick with the people *want* me to hear their music.
    • I hope you choose to download bands/musicians who make it totally clear that they want you to download their work and not "guessing" their intentions. (and claiming that their label forces their hand, that don't count, most of these guys still have a sampling, and are free to record stuff on their own dime for you to download)
      • I actually spend a lot of time on sites dedicated to making music, and the musicians there regularly post what they have made, and so do I.
    • I'm replying to myself here, but you have no idea how satisfying it is to really like a track, and be able to add that person to your friends list on some site, or write them an email telling them they kick ass and end up getting a grateful reply back.


      Not every act can be small, and cost $10 if they have a million fans and put on an expensive and amazing show. An artist's ability to get big like that will grow as their fans and their career grows. This being 'discovered' or 'assembled' by the music i
  • by WIAKywbfatw (307557) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @08:31PM (#19844577) Journal
    We all know from past news stories that, according to RIAA/MPAA, having 4 32-speed CD burners actually equates to having 128 CD burners, so...

    1. Population of the USA: 295,734,134 (July 2005 est. (CIA World Factbook)).

    2. Population of Canada: 32,805,041 (July 2005 est. (CIA World Factbook)).

    3. Ratio of Canadians to Americans: 1:9.015.

    Therefore, according to standard RIAA/MPAA accounting practices, every act of Canadian piracy equates to over 9 acts of American piracy.

    Now you know why they're so damned worried about Canadian file sharing...
  • Isn't Canada one of those countries that has extra royalties that consumers pay when buying storage devices, because they can be used to store pirated data? If so, than they really shouldn't be going after software/music/movie pirates, because all Canadians have already paid the "piracy tax." If they're still going to go after them, then they'd better stop charging said royalties, because that's tantamount to fraud.
  • > For example, it shows how despite the MPAA's claim of movie piracy, Canada was the industry's fastest growing market last year. Similarly, while the recording industry says Canada is the world's top P2P country, the data shows that the Canadian music industry is experiencing record gains...

    So how is any of this exclusive of each other? Canada could be experience a quickly growing market and rampant piracy and it could be the top P2P country while enjoying strong sales.
    • by ceoyoyo (59147)
      Ah, but those are possibilities the RIAA REALLY doesn't want you to consider.
  • by pkulak (815640) on Thursday July 12, 2007 @08:53PM (#19844687)
    Unless I get popcorn at my next meeting, that wasn't a "movie".
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12, 2007 @09:59PM (#19845047)
    Enough.

    Why does the slashdot community continually support this criminal BS of pirating music and slamming more than the RIAA's tatics, but even their right to protect their intellectual property? When did theft become cool? Oh ya, I remember. From the first time I heard about it, I thought Napster's rampant copying and theft was not cool and revolutionary, but more like the punk ghetto kid who suddenly became popular with everyone - by selling drugs. It's ridiculous.

    If you do not think that THEY have a right to keep you from copying and YOU have no right to copy, at least in the U.S. then perhaps you have forgotten that our most fundamental law states that Congress has the authority "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." YOUR interpretation of this is not relevant so I don't want to hear it. Only the Supreme Court's is, and if you have a problem with that, good luck with your constitutional amendment or revolution.

    On the other hand, if you are going to advocate socialism, please be consistent. There are a lot of software developers here. How do you expect to make money if everyone copies your work? Are you going to make money on product support? Tell me, how much money have you spent on product support in the last few years?

    If you have a problem with the RIAA's tactics, fine. I do not have a problem with the articles and the outrage. But what point is this article trying to make? It's easily refuted with one simple counterexample which is self evident: China.

    The slashdot groupthink on this subject is off the charts. A lot of folks here could benefit from a realistic and balanced discussion that properly respects the right of others to protect their property and the right of government to implement public policy according to properly established authority as provided by the people.
    • by arkhan_jg (618674) on Friday July 13, 2007 @04:02AM (#19846557)
      Slavery was once perfectly legal in the US. Not that I'm comparing slavery to indefinite extension of copyright terms ; I'm pointing out that just because its a law does not mean its a just or fair law that should be supported. Rosa Parks is another example where an unjust law was challenged and eventually defeated by public flouting of it.

      A lot of folks here could benefit from a realistic and balanced discussion that properly respects the right of others to protect their property...

      Thats your mistake right there. Copyrighted material is not property. No matter how many times people like you say 'intellectual property' it doesn't make it true. Copyrighted works are in the public domain* - its just that for a limited time, in order to get more material into the public domain, authors are supposed to have a limited exclusive time of distribution. Its NOT ownership of property, it never was - ideas, stories, music, cannot be owned - it belongs to all in the public domain.

      This idea is being lost. Its time we restored it, banished the fiction of 'intellectual property', got rid of copyright altogether and looked to a different method of promoting progress in science and the useful arts. And you say 'china' like its a bad thing. I see china, where copyrighted works are used and shared by all for minimal cost, benefiting the society and users rather than big corporations and I see a good thing much closer to the original copyright ideals than our current twisted approach in the west of lock it up, deny it to the public and keep it hidden.

      How much music has re-entered the public domain since copyright began? How much instead has been locked up, mouldering away in vaults? How much has passed several release dates, only for copyright duration to be extended again, and again, and again keeping it locked away? The public is being stolen from. Its time we took it back.

      *the reason all this material is in the public domain by default is for one main reason; free speech. You can't prevent someone repeating or sharing an idea, story, music etc because they have a free speech right to do so. Sharing flames with tapers etc. Copyright temporarily removes that free speech right, in order to reward authors sharing their material with a short period of exclusivity before it returns to the public domain covered by free speech. Current copyright approach ignores this entirely, and effectively will extend copyright duration forever, thus eliminating the whole point of copyright, that of a full and healthy public domain of material freely shared and built on in new works. BSD (and to some extent GPL) software is much closer to the original plan of copyright than closed commercial software development.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by sulfur_lad (964486)

      On the other hand, if you are going to advocate socialism, please be consistent. There are a lot of software developers here. How do you expect to make money if everyone copies your work? Are you going to make money on product support? Tell me, how much money have you spent on product support in the last few years?

      You're missing the point I think. What you're seeing is the AAs trying to affect Canadian federal policy, and that's dangerous. You know how people keep talking about corrupt governments all over the world? Well guess what, a lot of that is because they get corporate donations in exchange for favorable policy on doing business in that country, and the governments will bend over backwards for the benefactors at the expense of their own citizens. As a Canadian, I don't really want a corporate entity to

    • by mcvos (645701)

      at least in the U.S. then perhaps you have forgotten that our most fundamental law states that Congress has the authority "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

      Limited times, so doesn't that mean that the current practically indefinite extension of copyright is unconstitutional? Okay, 120 years is still limited, but as long as Disney survives, that will become 150 yea

    • by necro2607 (771790)
      "Why does the slashdot community continually support this criminal BS of pirating music and slamming more than the RIAA's tatics, but even their right to protect their intellectual property?"

      Maybe because of the levies I pay on blank media. Effectively, Canada treats me as a downloader whether I actually download music or not. Whether you agree with piracy or not, treating all citizens like criminals = instant reason for someone to NOT feel wrong about downloading music.

      "There are a lot of software devel
    • YOUR interpretation of this is not relevant so I don't want to hear it. Only the Supreme Court's is, and if you have a problem with that, good luck with your constitutional amendment or revolution.

      You are exactly right - it's already decided. And that is precisely why you are witnessing a "revolution" in this area. Unenforceable laws are MORE dangerous than enforceable ones because they allow for selective enforcement. Just like we are seeing now.

      The only way to fight is through civil disobedien
      • by Sigma 7 (266129)

        The only way to fight is through civil disobedience -- and that's exactly what you are seeing. No more. No less. It's just a fact that people are NOT willing to pay $17/cd anymore.

        Civil disovedience is breaking the law for the purpose of being the poster boy on getting it changed. Doing so requires you to overtly break the law, such as going to the doorsteps of Microsoft corporation with a sign stating you are installing a pirated version of Windows Vista.

        Most people who are doing "piracy" are either doing it because:
        - They feel the work isn't generating revenue for the copyright holder anymore (as with "abandonware".)
        - They want to gain access to a specific work without paying for

  • I saw a rip of Sicko in a torrent that was in Canadian PAL format. Do Americans rip in PAL?
    • Eh? Canadians also use Never Twice the Same Colour same as you. Your RIP must have been from Europe, SA or Aus.
    • by gstoddart (321705)

      I saw a rip of Sicko in a torrent that was in Canadian PAL format. Do Americans rip in PAL?

      Ummmm ..... Canada uses the same NTSC format as Americans. PAL is NOT a Canadian format, our TVs and DVDs are pretty much identical.

      Cheers
      • by macraig (621737)
        I know, I know! Didja read the other replies beforehand? I already stood corrected at least twice. Trust me, I won't forget, no need to beat the stiff horse.
        • by gstoddart (321705)

          I know, I know! Didja read the other replies beforehand?

          Actually, from my perspective, when I started responding to you, nobody else had done so yet.

          Wasn't intended as a "me too" gang up on you. :-P

          Cheers

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