Nokia's iPhone, No Seriously 243
Several readers have written to tell us that Engadget has a look at Nokia's visions for the future. "It was presented during Nokia's GoPlay event this morning as a glimpse into the future of Nokia interface design. Oh, and it's due out next year. When pressed during the Q&A about the striking similarity to the little Cupertino device, Anssi Vanjoki — Nokia's Executive VP & General Manager of Multimedia — said, 'If there is something good in the world then we copy with pride.' Well, ok then."
Can't anyone see it's a joke/hoax? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's clearly a poke at Nokia saying, "They are simply going to rip off Apple after the iPhone, and we think they'd go this far". Come on people! Apple DID file a handful of patents on this.
Probably a marketing ploy (Score:4, Insightful)
Nokia's high-end products have always been head and shoulders above the rest. Its current top of the range models are arguably better than the iPhone, possibly excepting the design and touchscreen. When Nokia do launch this device, or a similar one, I've no doubt it will support technologies such as HSDPA (3.5G), multimedia messages, uPnP media sharing, third party (unsigned) applications and all the multimedia functions us Europeans have come to expect from Nokia's "multimedia computers".
There is no doubt in my mind that Apple are the proverbial Rolls Royce of desktop computing, however I'm not too sure of their credentials in the global mobile telephony market - I just don't believe they "get it".
Re:Hype (Score:4, Insightful)
(*digits of pi in base 4)
Apple iPhone Patents? (Score:3, Insightful)
How long before we see Apple's lawyers get on Nokia for patent infringement?
There's copying... (Score:4, Insightful)
So not dubious - shameless. Yeesh.
Yawn... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This is S60 4.0 (Score:5, Insightful)
It's great that Nokia has such a wonderful phone for you, but isn't it even better that, coming soon, Nokia will have an iPhone-like device that will do everything you just described, AND work like an iPhone too?
Re:This is S60 4.0 (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus in the hey-day of MP3 player competition: Apple rolled out new models twice a year. I doubt that the iPhone won't be following the same aggressive product development cycle.
I'm not dissing Nokia for duplicating the iPhone interface (and definitely extending it with their handset experience.) What I am saying however is that Nokia will produce every kind of phone out there in their usual jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none design ethos.
They know that profitability is not about having the best phone out there, but having something comparable and half the price. (I.e consumer choice.)
Additionally one can argue that the two companies work in different markets: Nokia rarely cut out seldom used/confusing features in the fear that they'll strike off a possible buyer. Apple on the other hand will only include the most desired features and reinvent them with their particular experience in usability.
Re:Turn it on its head (Score:5, Insightful)
You forget, Apple is leveraging decades of ideas in cell phone technology for their product that they never thought of. Sure they have a lot of great new ideas, but I don't see other folks using their ideas as stealing. No more than I see Apple building a cell phone as stealing.
Why is everyone so hard on iPhone (Score:5, Insightful)
Frankly, for the last two years I've kept a Razr and a video iPod crammed in my pocket, and I'm happy to have one device, that also gives me internet when I need it, in a single device. I wish it had 3G and some other things, but it's also a first generation device. The first iPod kinda sucked too, but not so bad it didn't make a big impact.
Regarding price, AT&T, and other 'problems' people talk about, get over it. If T-mobile is better for you, go with 'em. Nobody is forcing you to use an iPhone if you don't want to.
By analogy: When I was shopping for a car recently I looked at cool 50K sports car that only seats 2. Well, I drive around with friends a lot and a 4 seater is much more my speed, and I got one with lots of power for about $30K. I could say, as some do with the iPhone, "It only seats two and costs $50K! I can get a 4 seater for half that." So get the freakin' 4 seater.
The iPhone is clearly a luxury device designed for a certain market, but not all markets. Is all the griping over this to protect a moron from going into and Apple store, dropping $600 and saying, "WAit, this isn't what I wanted at all." People aren't that dumb, and if they are and have that kind of money, let 'em. Frankly, no cell phone could be perfect, especially with this group. Someone did an analysis on Slashdot I think of the 'ideal' mobile device and then proved it couldn't be made by any one manufacturer because of patent and licensing issues. Go get the phone with the features you want. I showed my iPhone to my parents and they said, "Hmm, we just need a phone that makes phone calls." So I helped them find a simple phone with big buttons because that's what they needed.
Or is all the griping because you secretly want an iPhone and are frustrated because you can't justify the cost because it doesn't have a feature you truly need. Hmm. I think a lot of the bitching about the AT&T lockout is becuase people still have contracts they can't cancel and really want one. Life's not fair (and yeah, as an AT&T customer for some time now they kinda suck, but what tradeoffs are you willing to make?) IF you're not willing, nobody is forcing you to.
Re:Engadget called (Score:2, Insightful)
While copying virtually the entire story into the summary seems a bit much I don't really think your statement is profound or informative. Thanks for the link though, it would have been useful if I'd missed the great big blue one in the article.
Re:This is S60 4.0 (Score:5, Insightful)
Because Apple were categorically the first company ever to release a pocket device with a touchscreen. History starts with them. The whole world of PDAs with network capabilities, picture viewers, mp3 players, web browsing capabilities didn't really happen. Companies like Palm who made small touchscreen devices, looked into the future, predicted the iPhone and copied the concept years before Apple did it first.
And I say that as a Mac Pro owner. Love their computers. Love their gear. Hate their fanbase.
Re:High-end phone interfaces lapping Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
There is not a Nokia phone made today that the Apple iPhone doesn't blow out off the water "value-proposition-wise" with it's first iteration. The very bankruptcy of Nokia's idea mill is shown by the very subject of this thread; the announcement that they are going to try to copy the iPhone.
What do you mean by "Nokia's more mature interface"?
Isn't that just spin for "old-fashioned?" Also the iPhone runs OS-X a variant of Unix. I think that Unix has more cred for being "mature" in all the ways that actually count. It's underpinnings are rock solid and mostly open. What we are really talking about here in terms of interface, is the user interaction layer and I think Apple clearly has far more experience in that department than Nokia.
Apple lacks market experience?
Then how did they work that deal where the phone is no longer controlled by the network provider, and get a cut of fees as well? Apple got both the market, and the deal that phone companies like Nokia have been trying for their whole lives. In one stroke. Apple's financial's and market savy are not only rock solid, they are the envy of many tech companies.
You are trying to use that same old argument wherein Apple is supposed to be up against some kind of juggernaut and therefore doomed to fail, but the truth is actually the reverse. Nokia is up against the juggernaut, not Apple.
You also seem to think that just because Nokia is on top at the moment that they have some kind of magic beans or something. As recently as a few years ago, Motorola was the handset of choice. They made similar phones with similar interfaces to Nokia's current offerings. There is no reason to suspect that Nokia's phones, or their new interface will be anything special, especially when the best they can do is (possibly) offer up a luke-warm copy of an OS over a year after it comes out.
Feature for feature, Nokia may make the top feature phones at the moment, but they don't necessarily make what the market wants. You are mistaking Nokia's top of the line, hugely expensive "everything but the kitchen sink" products for products that actually sell well and are desired by the market. The majority of Nokia's sales are bottom of the market crud phones. I know because I have one myself.
Ask yourself what happens when Apple releases it's "low market" iPhone that you can use on any network. What happens when Nokia finally comes out with this phone next year and multiple versions of Apple's iPhones are already out all around the world? I would not bet on Nokia coming out with anything that will interfere with the huge momentum Apple has built here.
PS - what is "cruft"? Is that American for "crud" or "crap" or "stuff"?
Re:This is S60 4.0 (Score:5, Insightful)
One Word: Newton.
Yup, history certainly did start with Apple. If cell phones in 1992 didn't weigh 6-10 pounds, it probably would have had that inside as well.
Reality distortion field (Score:2, Insightful)
But the fact is, pretty much any Qtek PDA or Nokia "tablet" cellphone beats it in specifications, features, battery life and audio quality (and they're unlocked by default, and cheaper). The only interesting thing the iPhone adds is the multi-touch screen (you still can't type on it quickly, though).
The Nokia model shown in this article isn't very different from models they've had for over 3 years now (and some Asian brands have had for 5).
Talk about "strong bias"... (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPhone might look very impressive in the USA, where cell phones seem to have been stuck in the early 90s (your theory that Motorola was ever "the cellphone of choice" confirms this), but it's a joke compared to any modern european or asian smartphone. Why do you think Apple is limiting it to the US? Because that's the only place where they'll be able to sell something so underpowered for such a high price. Sure, there are some Apple fanbois in Europe too, but there's also real competition (phones come unlocked, and there are lots of operators). The iPhone needs to go through at least three iterations until it is ready to be sold in Europe and Asia, and the competition (Nokia, Qtek, Sony-Ericsson, etc.) aren't exactly sitting still.
Re:This is S60 4.0 (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're making his point for him.
I don't give a shit about how stylish my phone is.
I want one that lets me do what I need to do as efficiently as possible.
To date, Nokia kicks everyone else's ass in that regard. On average, the interface requires the fewest button presses to do the most common things, and it's relatively internally consistent compared to most other handset brands.
You don't understand how Nokia works (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems that you don't understand how Nokia works. Nokias competitive advantage isn't design or superior technology, it's main competitive advantage is mass production of phones and phone models. Yes, Nokia doesn't just produce massive amounts of phones, it produces massive amounts of different phone models. The idea is simple, produce as many phone models as quickly as you can, and hope that at least few will be big hits and the others will just do.
It also seems that you really don't have a grasp of mobile phone markets. Nokia isn't just top at the moment, they have been for almost the last 10 years at the top. They currently have 37% market share globally. They are the most profitable mobile phone company not just now, but have been for the long time being. When we look at technology, production and marketing abilities, there really isn't any other phone company as Nokia.
On technology wise Symbian is the number one mobile OS. It was originally developed for the handhelds and has been powering them from the days of Psion. Most of the smart phones in the world are powered by Symbian and the platform has support not just from Nokia and Sony-Ericsson, but from other handset manufacturers also. As what comes to interface, yes the iPhone has a pretty interface which polished to death, but news flash, that same polishing can be found from the newer phones. Also it should be noted, it just isn't one interface Nokia is catering, they have Series 60, they are Series 40, they customize and try quite a lot. They may not be as innovative as Apple, but why be when they can just copy, imitate and mass produce.
As to your question about what happens when and if Apple will produce its low market version of iPhone, the answer to that one is easy: Nokia will just copy it, produce handful of new models, drop margins if needed for those phones and make sure that there is no way for Apple to succeed in the market. Actually I would argue that for now it's even impossible for Apple to try to gain any strong foothold from the markets, they have shown their cards are they are being copied and out imitated. It should also be noted that Apple isn't known to play in the mass production league, they are a company serving niche segments and are to do that with a bigger gross margin.
I would suggest that you take a visit to a Nokia NYCs Store or maybe visit their European pages to see on just what and how much they offer. Nokias European homepage [nokia.com]
Re:The Newton Irony (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Multi-touch (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should Apple decide if it is bad or not? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Actually it's the E70... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:High-end phone interfaces lapping Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
By all accounts I'm an Apple fanboy, but reading your post I think you have me down as a Nokia/Symbian fanboy or Apple hater! I guess I tried too hard to be balanced or reasonable. Or pessimistic.
Mature simply means that they've been doing phone UIs for years. Of course that does mean they were set in their ways and concepts, whereas Apple could come straight in an refine the current state of the art into the iPhone's UI, which is smooth and excellent. Mature also means that all the features that people want are available, that's what will take Apple some time. The fact that Apple have such a good OS and a good set of core libraries that they can use from their XServe down to the iPods they'll release soon has made this task far easier of course, and this design elegance will have major benefits in the years ahead.
And as a Brit I use cruft to mean old out of date but still used. Basically not a clean slate. That's what Apple had for their phone interface - start from scratch, and we'll have a decent mobile graphics chip too. That means effects, prettyness and clear design without cruft. Cruft like Windows Mobile "Settings" system that is a major mishmash of different tools to do different things, some third party, different look and feel, etc. I still can't connect to a WPA network with WM2005 though...
The iPhone will keep on selling, but Nokia, Motorola, etc, they're all large, they're established, and they can adapt if they have to. As soon as Apple have an 'iPhone nano' or similar for a decent price there will be pressure on them, but they'll have their similar functionality UIs by then, maybe a bit more clunky for some, maybe a bit more featureful as well. However to think that Apple will have the same kind of dominance in 5 years time that the iPod has now is rather wishful thinking. What will happen is that the stragglers will be killed off as the platforms advance due to competition and everyone will have to come up with their own cool competitive selling points. Expandability (mini-SD), ability to run custom applications, ability to unlock, replaceable battery, cut-and-paste, and so on, many people clearly want these and there's a market for them to exploit.
The iPhone is excellent hardware, but anyone can make excellent hardware. It's excellent design too, but when you've got a slab with a screen on most of one side there's only so many ways you can mess up before getting it right too. The software is the difference, and Nokia et al are not that far behind with the glitz and the features they've had for years. But if that Nokia videoed drops back to a clunky interface (or Windows Mobile 2008 still has the mish-mash Settings system and the primitive home screen) at any point in the real world then it has failed to get the point of what Apple has achieved.