Joss Whedon Back on TV

tokenhillbilly writes "Joss Whedon of 'Buffy' and 'Firefly' fame has signed on to do another TV series on Fox starring Eliza Dushku (Faith from 'Buffy'). The series is going to be called Dollhouse, and the story surrounds a group of people 'programmed' to do missions out of a sort of high-tech dorm. '[The series] follows a top-secret world of people programmed with different personalities, abilities and memories depending on their mission. After each assignment -- which can be physical, romantic or even illegal -- the characters have their memories wiped clean, and are sent back to a lab (dubbed the "Dollhouse"). [The] show centers on Dushku's character, Echo, as she slowly begins to develop some self-awareness, which impacts her missions.'"

Not a troll

[Pojut]

Just an opinion.

Am I the only one that cannot stand a single thing this man has ever released? All his shit feels the same and looks the same...like shit.

Seriously now. The writing is horrid, he doesn't make me care about ANY of his characters, the situations that occur are just ridiculous...I know that many MANY people love his work, but man...I have yet to see anything from this guy that I even remotely enjoy...

Another show about some "company"

[aquaepulse]

I realize that serialized mystery/thriller/drama shows are all the rage (Lost, Prison Break, Life, Heroes). But its getting outrageous. How many malevolent companies/groups/governments/cabals can we be expected to tolerate.

Chuck Clone?

[Sperbels]

So we're going to get a version of Chuck, but with more hot chicks? God TV sucks. I want my Firefly back.

Sounds like Dark City

[Khopesh]

Uh, Alex Proyas [wikipedia.org] (The Crow [wikipedia.org], I, Robot [wikipedia.org]) did this in his 1998 movie Dark City [wikipedia.org]; an alien race constantly wipes the minds of their captive humans, reshuffling them in order to better understand the human concept of a soul (so that the dying alien race can learn this trait and perhaps evade their fate). The movie is one of my favorites, but I don't expect Dollhouse to be anything but drivel.

Gunslinger Girl

[Anonymous Coward]

The anime you're thinking of is Gunslinger Girl

Re:Let's hope it's cancelled after 15 eps

[moderatorrater]

I disagree. I feel the last two seasons of Angel were the best. I never watched Buffy, but I feel that Firefly was as close to perfect as a show can be, and Serenity was pretty good for a man who's only ever done TV.

Out of curiosity, what didn't you feel made sense about Serenity's conclusion? I thought it was good.

Re:He's like an abused spouse

[unsigned integer]

Fox: "Come on home baby. This time it will be different. We won't cancel you halfway this time. We'll change."

Whedon: "I'm in a co-dependant relationship with Fox ... I have no choice but to go back, for the sake of the children."

Re:Let's hope it's cancelled after 15 eps

[jpfed]

Angel started awesome as well, but then went down the toilet.

If you could bring yourself to watch the show after season four (which could be painful at times- Connor was very much Angel's Dawn), you would have been treated to some of the best that Joss has to offer. The last season of Angel was almost as good as the only season of Firefly. Wesley's arc throughout the whole series, and especially its culmination in the last season, was an excellent demonstration of what Joss can do if you give him enough time. I can only imagine what comparable achievements he could have reached if he had been given the opportunity with Firefly.

Re:Another show about some "company"

[SydShamino]

How many malevolent companies/groups/governments/cabals can we be expected to tolerate.

Given how many we tolerate in Real Life, I expect we'll tolerate a bunch more of them on TV.

Re:hybrid shows

[Yinepuhotep]

The only reason Firefly "made no sense" was because Fox aired the episodes out of order and didn't even bother to air the pilot until AFTER they had canceled the show. Imagine how much sense your favorite novel would make if the publisher had chopped it apart and shuffled the chapters before binding it, then printed the prologue at the END of the book.

Re:Joss Whedon and Fox

[Scudsucker]

I wish Firefly hadn't been canceled too, but c'mon, it cost a million bucks an episode to make and it was unpopular

Mmmm bullshit. You take a show that has to be watched in order, show it out of order, and constantly mess with the time slot, and it fails to pick up viewers? Who knew? The part that I don't understand is why greenlight the show and spend a bunch of money on it, only to deliberately run it into the ground so it gets canceled. Especially when they canceled Dark Angel because they wanted to use the money to make Firefly.

Re:Let's hope it's cancelled after 15 eps

[Nasarius]

The last *two* seasons of Angel? Seriously? Season 4 turned Angel into The Connor Show, with that fucking annoying little brat ruining nearly every episode. Even the actor who played Connor was apparently sick of him, saying each episode was pretty much whine, beat up on Angel, whine some more, no character development. And then there was the annoying/fake Cordy, with the ickiness of Cordy/Connor.

Season 5, though...wow. Spike, plus Amy Acker as Illyria, plus great plots. And probably one of the best season/series finales ever made.

Re:Let me guess

[Toonol]

It's funny that he's being accused of blatantly copying the show's premise, yet nobody seems to agree who he's ripping off:

Gunslinger Girls
Dark City
All My Sins Remembered
Joe 90
AphroditeX
Neuromancer

Did all of those shows rip off each other?

Hopefully...

[Cervantes]

Hopefully, this is part of some backroom deal so Joss can secure the rights to Firefly (which expire at the end of this year).

Because, otherwise... Joss, buddy, what the hell? You're like a hooker who keeps going back to her abusive pimp for another shot. What's next, you'll add a secondary character for Nathan Fillion, just to ensure that Fox will cancel it?

Re:Sounds somewhat like Gunslinger Girl.

[Pinky's Brain]

More Nikita than Alias.

Re:No extrapolation needed

[fyngyrz]

In my opinion, it is a problem of the target audience. Shows that appeal broadly to the lower half of the Gaussian (reality TV, Flava uv Luv, Faux News, etc.) aren't going to hook the upper half. Likewise, the cheap gimmicks used in easy advertising aren't going to motivate the upper half to buy much of anything - most of us just snicker at the commercials, if we watch them at all.

This leads to a problem where the advertising can pay for the shows if the shows bring in people who can be suckered by the ads; and that in turn earns us garbage television and causes the occasional great show that pokes its head up above the water to have corporate reach over and push it right back under. They knew that show was popular with a significantly upscale audience, but they also knew that those people weren't supporting their advertisers.

The only shows that make it that will have any appeal at all to the upper half will also have significant elements of dumbshittery to them so as to drag Joe Sixpack off the tailgate of his pickup long enough to watch. Hence the mixed bag that the Treks represent, the awesome badness of Dr Who and the Torchwood spinoff mixed with just-happen-to-be interesting ideas, and the dreary soap-opera fuckarosis of the current edition of Battlestar.

Firefly, which I would rank as the best television series ever made by a huge margin, even went out of its way to include low-end social elements such as the cowboy ethos, highly imperfect and easily understandable characters (Jane, for instance) and a down-to-the-metal bucket of bolts kind of flying jalopy your average hick could understand and maintain (Kylie.) The beauty of those inclusions was that they actually fit in the universe painted for us; the tragedy was that the show just wasn't dumb enough. In fact, it wasn't dumb at all. And that, my slashy friends, means cancellation.

So. What's Britney up to today? More collagen for her lips? Still being held at arm's length from her kids? Any more video of her trying to dance without any practice or coaching? Fascinating stuff. Just... fascinating. Cough. I think I'll fool with Guitar Hero III instead of watching the tube tonight. Again.

Re:Just extrapolate

[Belgand]

So is it also the same (as far as personnel go) as it was when they canceled Arrested Development in spite of it's many, many Emmys?

Even with Firefly they only showed about seven episodes, out-of-order, and crushed it. They also canceled Family Guy, Futurama... need I go on?

Fox is just plain notorious for canceling excellent shows with a strong fanbase. I'd think that after his terrible treatment last time he'd know better than to even consider working with them. Go to somebody like the CW who at least let Buffy run for a damn long time and are desperate enough for something good to keep them afloat.

What also isn't going to help it is the name. Much like Firefly/Serenity had a name that made a lot of sense to you if you already knew the story this promises to be a case where only fans will understand the name. Everyone else will likely not be interested in the program based on the name alone and will avoid it. I mean, if I didn't already know the reasoning and that Joss was behind it I'd probably have little to no interest in a show called "Dollhouse". Hell, I'd probably assume it was some lame new reality show.

Re:Just extrapolate

[Dun Malg]

I don't really know what to say about Family Guy, I have no idea why they cancelled that

Because it's the same five unfunny jokes over, and over, and over again.

, though they did bring it back Unfortunately.

Re:SPOILER for Buffy Finale

[Anonymous Coward]

-1, Idiot.

It wasn't random. All bets were off, dramatically, when Whedon killed Wash off. If he killed the most beloved, harmless character in the cast, the story was capable of anywhere.

Pretty brilliant move, actually.

SPOILER for Serenity now

[roystgnr]

This is just speaking for myself, but that ending was one of the very few times I've truly felt fear and suspense in an action movie. The standard trope goes something like: "Every one of Our Heroes is in mortal peril, and maybe the show plays it up by killing a Red Shirt, but you know that nobody you care about is going to bite it because they've got to be here for the next episode." Serenity was: "One fantastic character was actually killed, now another one's killed... dear God, this 'everybody might die' scene might actually end with everybody dying!"

If there had been a serious chance at bringing Firefly back to TV then I wouldn't think losing Book and Wash was worth the loss of Book and Wash, but for the movie's sake it was the right artistic choice to make.

Re:Not a troll

[Belacgod]

Bah, the movie was grade-b classic camp. The show was a completely different genre. If the show had a different name nobody would even connect the two at all.