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Hands-On With The Kindle 365

Amazon's Kindle e-book may have sold out in record time, but there's still a lot of discussion about the device's merits. Neil Gaiman likes it well enough, but it's sent Robert Scoble into a fit of apoplectic rage. For a real, meaty, hands-on look at the way the device operates in everyday life, Gamers With Jobs writer Julian Murdoch has a slice of life with the Kindle. He takes us through his Thanksgiving holiday weekend with the device, noting the quirks (good and bad) that cropped up with Amazon's new toy. "Short of reading in the tub, the Kindle is easier to read in more places, positions, and situations than a physical book ... But it's far from perfect. It is expensive. The cover, which I find completely necessary, is in desperate need of more secure attachment (Velcro works great). The book selection is less-than-perfect, although I imagine this will improve with every passing day. And Amazon needs marketing help. The Kindle's launch reeked of 'get it out fast.' The big-picture marketing efforts (like video demonstrations and blurbs from authors) were great, but simple things like communicating how freakin' easy it is to get non-Amazon content on to the device, for free, remain horribly misunderstood."
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Hands-On With The Kindle

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  • by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @02:25PM (#21494847) Homepage Journal

    I don't understand why people would buy this at ~$400. May as well just go and get a low end tablet pc, which you could use for a multitude of other uses.

    I'm not the NYT's typical top-ten reader, so I'm not sure something like this would immediately appeal. The last few books I've read were printed from 10 to 50 years ago, which would place them well beyond this device. Pros and Cons just don't weigh enough in favour and like I said, what does this do that a tablet couldn't do? Maybe when they drop it to ~$50 and I can sync it like my iPod to my favourite content feeds each morning it would hold some promise.

    Also, books don't require batteries. I've got several devices around now, which all have some form of rechargeable (and expensive to replace) cells. I worry a bit about the availability of replacement cells several years down the road.

  • by Seumas ( 6865 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @02:30PM (#21494913)
    Here's what it'll take for me:

    + Reader has to be under $100.
    + Books have to be half the price of print books or lower.
    + No bullshit DRM. I better be able to back the content up, copy it to my ipod, save it on my hard drive. Whatever.
    + I better be able to resell it, just like I can resell a used book. Otherwise, all of this is just a run-around way for the publishing industry to attacked the used book trade, which they hate more than almost anything else on earth (including their loathing of public libraries).
  • by Radon360 ( 951529 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @02:41PM (#21495057)

    Take a look at the specs [amazon.com].
    This thing doesn't sync, nor use WiFi. Instead, it downloads content through Sprint's wireless 3G network (the same one that their phones use). There is no subscription fee for this (the data service). It will also download newspaper and magazine subscriptions daily (no syncing or need to find a WiFi hotspot).

    Perhaps their pricing model is built around including some type of specially negotiated data plan with Sprint that is amortized over the projected lifetime of the device. (Just speculation).

  • by rootofevil ( 188401 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @02:42PM (#21495079) Homepage Journal
    how about instead of ebooks being cheap: you purchase the physical book, and get access to the kindle version immediately. that way you can start reading before it shows up if you really need it (think textbooks).
  • by PJ1216 ( 1063738 ) * on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @02:52PM (#21495201)
    a digital book should *NOT* be 10 dollars. i don't care if its a new book and only available as a hardcover for 18 bucks. i'm not spending 10 bucks for it. when the paperback is released, it still looks like the price of the e-book costs about the same, if not a little cheaper than the paperback. if they were selling new releases for like 2 bucks and paperback-released books for a buck (or just sell them all for 99 cents a piece), it would be a huge factor for people who buy a lot of books. it means they may eventually start saving money in the long run if they read that often. plus, it may entice people just to read more often in the first place or to even purchase books on impulse. they may not even read all the books they purchase if its at that price. i think they'd sell a lot more books and make more money due to having lower production costs. books are priced more than music. once the music/filesharing fiasco ends (which will probably be within this decade), books will be next. its a fringe market right now, but more and more books are becoming available online.
  • by HistoricPrizm ( 1044808 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @03:06PM (#21495393)
    Actually, you can download the manual from the Amazon site. However, it still isn't clear in the manual. You have to put two and two together, and those sections are about 15 pages apart in the manual. Nowhere does it explicitly state, "Hook the Kindle up via USB and you can transfer certain files for free". That would have been nice, but I think the GGP was somewhat correct in saying that there's not a real big advantage to Amazon in making the explicit statement. It also doesn't really jive with their main marketing point, the wireless connection through Sprint and lack of a need for a computer. There are some good discussions on the Kindle page regarding this topic, but, as with most of Amazon's Customer Discussions, you have to wade through a ton of crap.
  • Publishers, DRM, etc (Score:2, Interesting)

    by samweber ( 71605 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @03:27PM (#21495699)
    A lot of the same kinds of comments are coming up here as in other forums about the Kindle.

    Firstly, even though this article points out explicitly that you can put your own content on the Kindle, lots of people still seem to refuse to believe it. You can! And you can use USB to backup the files, as well.

    Secondly, DRM isn't really Amazon's fault. All publishers are really, really aware of electronic rights. There are major disputes between the Author's Guild and publishers because of this. Recently, in particular, there was a big fight with Simon & Schuster. There is simply no way that anyone, either authors or publishers, are going to give up these rights. Maybe a particular author will give away an old book for free over the 'net, but not in general. Both authors and publishers have to eat. Allowing everyone to copy their books is not going to happen. Amazon had no choice but to comply.

  • by samweber ( 71605 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @03:43PM (#21495943)
    Amazon says that their PDF handling is currently experimental, but that you can convert it.

    If you look around, you'll find that PDF support is an issue for pretty much all of these devices. Sony's reader, for instance, can view PDF, but it is unreadable. This isn't a coincidence.

    Years ago in the e-book business there were heated debates between the reader-first and the publisher-first groups. The former wanted readers to be able to enlarge, shrink or reformat books however they want. The latter want to be able to control every pixel on the screen, so that it will actually look good. For instance, the classic Alice in Wonderland illustrations flow around the text, which only works if the formatting is fixed.

    These e-books are reader-first devices: they let readers reformat books to whatever they want. PDFs are publisher-first. And how do you fit a 8.5x11 inch PDF page on a small screen? If you scale it, then it'll likely be unreadable. If you force everyone to scroll around the page, that'll likely make it irritating to use. There's probably a reasonably good solution, but it certainly isn't going to be easy!
  • by aaronvegh ( 546815 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @04:05PM (#21496249)
    I was at first inclined to agree: $10 seems like a lot for an ebook. But then I started running some numbers. Where's that 10 bucks going?
    • Amazon's first-ever deal with Sprint to send you the book over a cellular network
    • Amazon's cut
    • Publisher's cut
    • Misc. other digital file processor/middledude cut
    • Author's royalty
    Book publishing is an extremely poor game: razor-thin margins for everybody! In Canada, anyway, a bestseller is said to have sold 5000 copies -- let's multiply by ten to get a US figure. For 50,000 copies of a bestseller sold by Amazon, you're splitting $500,000 between a lot of people. And remember, MOST books are going to do way less than that.

    In other words, I don't think the rate they're charging is over-large.

  • Re:I'll wait and see (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cal Paterson ( 881180 ) * on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @04:05PM (#21496253)

    Oh gosh - that last sentence probably cost me about 4000 Slashdot karma points...
    Just occurred to me; it's pretty interesting that a whole subculture (slashdot) can be self-depreciating.
  • by h4rm0ny ( 722443 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @04:07PM (#21496287) Journal

    Well if you see the DRM on the Kindle as a selling point, then that does narrow the field (though the device I linked to does support MobiPocket which is one of the most popular DRM book formats, I'm told). However, DRM is a minus point to me. The frustration it can cause me can actually push a purchase into negative value to my life. There are alternatives to DRM. For example, I have purchased numerous PDF books with watermarks. And given that production and distribution costs fall to close to zero for the publisher, you can even dispense with security altogether and still make a healthy profit as BAEN books seem to do.
  • Re:Theory (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DrJimbo ( 594231 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @04:36PM (#21496693)

    People who read a lot of books LIKE having huge bookshelves to impress people on how many books they have.
    Or maybe they don't like buying the same books over and over and over again. Once I've read a book, I usually don't want to read it again for another few years but after 3 or 4 years it is almost like it is a new book to me again and I get a tremendous hunger to read it again.

    I then have to re-buy the books that I've given away or donated. Often they are no longer in print so I have to get a crappy used version (or pay a ton for a good version if the book was popular). Often only the paperback version is available and I much prefer hardbacks.

    A friend once boasted that he could fit all of his possessions into a Volkswagon beetle. I told you "you should let us teach you how to read."

    I'm sure some people have large libraries as an ego thing but not all people do. A large library is also a PITA because you have to dust and keep the sun off of the books and keep it organized, and it takes up valuable floor/shelf space. I love that all my audio is accessible from Amorok now, I'd love to be able to do something similar with most (but not all) of my books.

  • iPod (Score:5, Interesting)

    by m1a1 ( 622864 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @05:07PM (#21497195)
    I remember the slashdot comments about the iPod when it first debuted. For those who don't, let's just say it looked about like these comments on the Kindle, lots of hate everywhere from people who had never seen, let alone used the device. The complaints were pretty much identical, too (DRM!, too expensive!, how is this better than a laptop?).

    Thus, I'll go ahead and predict the success of the Kindle here and now. Within 2 years 90% of slashdot readers will own one, and those who don't will own a knock off that runs open source firmware.
  • Re:An analogy (Score:3, Interesting)

    by 4thAce ( 456825 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @05:15PM (#21497311) Homepage

    So in other words, totally superfluous, and largely the laughing stock of its domain?
    On the contrary, Segway still seems to be holding onto its tiny, tiny niche for now. My point was more that for every Segway out there there is probably a million people who walk. If Amazon could sell one Kindle for every million books sold everywhere, they might be content with that.
  • Re:An analogy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MrSteveSD ( 801820 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @06:26PM (#21498121)
    Maybe this particular ebook reader will fail, but I wouldn't write off ebooks in general. Back in the mid 90s as a Uni student I had huge heavy boxes of books which I had to cart back and forth each term. I'd have rather had them all on one little 10 ounce ebook! The same really goes for all of my technical books I keep at work.

    As for non-fiction/newspapers/magazines, these are the kind of things I read on the train. Turning a page is quite tricky when you're jammed in like sardines or you only have one hand free. I think ebooks certainly have the potential to make reading more convenient in various ways.
  • by onx ( 956508 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @06:36PM (#21498259)
    Supposedly the reason Amazon is selling new releases at $10 is because that's their cost from the publishers. Apparently Amazon actually loses money (or makes an unbelievably thin profit) on the sale of new releases when you consider their overhead and costs to Sprint. The idea is that new releases serve as a loss leader and Amazon can generate profits (small ones) on older books and other media. Now you may argue that it's Amazon's fault that they didn't negotiate a price more palatable to you, but in any case it seems that it's really the publishers forcing these prices.

    What I would really love to see is a kindle with a color e-ink screen (touch screen would be fantastic) and a store for textbooks. Textbooks are expensive for a lot of reasons, but I think a kindle type device could really bring that cost down significantly for at least some books. For instance, apparently one of my professors (David Griffiths, author of Introduction to Electrodynamics, a standard text in the field of physics) has been fighting with the publisher of his books to bring the cost down. As of now they sell for around $100 each--the publishers apparently wanted to sell them at ~$200 each--with almost no royalties going to him. He has also had big problems with the quality of the books; the third edition of his electro book tends to pretty much fall apart, something he's furious about. I think he would love the idea of eTextbooks. A lot of textbook authors are people too (though some are the evil, sadistic spawn of the flying spaghetti monster), and want to see their books made more affordable for their students. I'd like to see Amazon do the following things:

    1. Make textbooks available on a kindle (v2)

    2. Sell textbooks for less than their used price. I'd love it if they were under $50 each (textbook prices vary for so many reasons...books with many, large, color images for instance cost more to produce).

    3. Sell textbook "upgrades" for a small fee (if the new ebook is $50, something like $15 seems reasonable so long as it doesn't get out of control and major revisions only happen every five years or so. There's no reason why I should have to shell out big bucks for a new version of what I already have.

    4. Allow authors to correct errata for free.

    5. Forget the publishers--set up publishing services in-house and bring authors closer to their customers (students) and bring down prices further while increasing Amazon's profits!

    6. Eliminate sales taxes on textbooks. (Ok I know Amazon can't really do this; it's the fault of government) Sure, 7.75% sales tax doesn't sound like a lot, but when you're buying thousands of dollars worth of books it adds up fast.

    If Amazon could do this, even at $400 each kindles would sell like crazy and then they'd really have the book-tech of the future.
  • Re:Theory (Score:3, Interesting)

    by cleojo42 ( 573624 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @06:40PM (#21498321)
    Um, no.
    As a person who will probably never give up the tangible book with pages (and I am 30, I don't know where that puts me in your 'younger generation'), I have to disagree.
    There is more to the book culture than my shelf is bigger than yours.

    I look over the shoulder of someone that I am sitting behind on the bus to check out what book they are reading.
    I lend out books.
    I write in mine.
    I like the smell of books.
    I borrow books.
    I sell books to the used bookstore.
    I utilize libraries.

    I am not likely to do any of these with a e-book reader.

    Also, my eyes get tired reading screens. I am less likely to read in the tub. I certainly am not going to put a $400 reader on the kitchen counter while I am trying to cook a recipe. I am not going to travel with an expensive thing that I am apt to lose and not be able to replace right away.

    If one of these e-book readers takes off it totally voids good cover art. Just imagine people getting skins for their readers. It's just gluttony.
  • by eh2o ( 471262 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @06:54PM (#21498447)
    - Reader price, probably will happen eventually.
    - Book price: I agree fully; also I noted that while Amazon has a decent price for bestsellers (9.99), many technical books are just as absurdly expensive as they are now ($50-70 and up). I think I'll just stick to the library...
    - Backups: Amazon backs up all your purchases automatically (unlike Apple iTunes, I might add).
    - Resell; probably won't happen, but rental/checkout might. If this gets popular the universities will demand bulk subscriptions (e.g. I have unlimited access to Safari Bookshelf through the Univ. library).
  • by aws910 ( 671068 ) on Tuesday November 27, 2007 @08:12PM (#21499301)
    The bookeen does not support Linux, even though it is linux-based... go figure. Read the FAQ [bookeen.com] under point 8 "The Mobipocket Desktop Reader is not available fro Mac and Linux. On these machines, the Cybook is seen as a simple external storage drive and the Mobipocket files must be transferred manually." I guess you could say they are being nice by not deliberately locking-out non-windows users, but if I'm gonna pay that much, then ALL features should work for Linux. Furthermore, it doesn't look like there's a linux prog out there that does the same thing as mobipocket or ereader. I would love to be corrected on this point but that's what I've seen so far.

    The specific incompatibility is this: the software that the reader uses for synchronization, "mobipocket", is windows-only. The features seem really cool though - it can even download RSS feeds so you can view them offline. The WINE Entry [winehq.org] for this program says it crashes frequently so that's not an answer(Does wine ever work right?)

    Also noticed... ebooks can sometimes cost more [mobipocket.com] than their paper-based counterparts.

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