Does Active SETI Put Earth in Danger? 647
Ponca City, We Love You writes "There is an interesting story in Seed Magazine on active SETI — sending out signals to try to contact other civilizations in nearby star systems. Alexander Zaitsev, Chief Scientist at the Russian Academy of Sciences' Institute of Radio Engineering and Electronics, has access to one of the most powerful radio transmitters on Earth and has already sent several messages to nearby, sun-like stars. But some scientists think that Zaitsev is not only acting out of turn by independently speaking for everyone on the entire planet but believe there are possible dangers we may unleash by announcing ourselves to the unknown darkness. This ground has been explored before in countless works of science fiction most notably "The Killing Star," a 1995 novel that paints a frightening picture of interstellar civilizations exterminating their neighbors with relativistic bombardments, not from malice, but simply because it is the most logical action."
UFOs of the 20th century (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:You can't protect yourself against the nonexist (Score:3, Interesting)
Forget the Extra-Terrestrial Hypothesis (Score:2, Interesting)
Consider this - what if the intelligence behind UFO events, both modern and pre-1940's UFO events like Fatima or Lourdes - is the same intelligence that appears in stories of Fey folk (elves, dwarves, sylphs, succubi, etc)?
What if we've been looking to the stars when in fact they've been here all along, just as bound to the Earth as we are?
Why would aliens care? (Score:5, Interesting)
Even if aliens are out there listening, would they really care? I mean, we've all seen Independence Day and Signs and all the other movies where they do. But, when it comes right down to it, we probably aren't special enough to matter.
Aliens powerful enough to matter would probably think of us like harmless bugs or small animals: sure, they take up some space, but they aren't worth the effort.
On the other hand, if the aliens want a hyperspace bypass and Earth is in the way, we might all be screwed. :)
Limited disclosure (Score:3, Interesting)
"You couldn't possibly have had anything to do with Designing us" should work.
I think we can all agree... (Score:5, Interesting)
Or the europeans would have showed up alot quicker and did exactly what they did. I imagine they would have brought more guns though on that first trip.
Self fulfilled prophecy (Score:3, Interesting)
From TOA: Brin included a more disturbing possibility: Nobody is on the air because something seeks and destroys everyone who broadcasts.
I have another alternative theory to explain why we have not received any signal: Every planet inhabited by intelligent life has considered the same possibility of the previous paragraph, so they are avoiding any kind of transmission just in case, to avoid potential detection.
Re:Dont kill the baby just cause it doesn't dance (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:No. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:You can't protect yourself against the nonexist (Score:3, Interesting)
That should read we have absolutely no PROVEN contacts...
There are many very old writings, pictures, tablets, etc. that could be interpreted as showing contact with alien races. Perhaps aliens did come here years ago and decided either a) we aren't worth keeping in touch with or 2) they would wait a few ages to see if we blow ourselves up. Who knows? I certainly would never profess to have any knowledge of the subject, but I will keep an open mind.
Re:You can't protect yourself against the nonexist (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:SETI is a waste of time (Score:3, Interesting)
There may be other obstacles [gmu.edu] to us finding another civilization, you know. The heat death of the universe isn't the one I'd worry about.
Re:UFOs of the 20th century (Score:3, Interesting)
Massive? Possibly not.
If you set your threshold a little lower, Africa [wikipedia.org].
Re:The Enemy is Us (Score:5, Interesting)
Build a partial dyson sphere around a somewhat nearby star, even just a vast network of satellites, and use them to turn the light of the star on and off to send an unmistakable binary message. Occasionally this binary message can contain the encrypted 'log' of visitors, so that we can find out about them from any vantage point in the universe (but they ostensibly can't locate us like with some directional signal, unless they can trace our 'subspace signature' somehow).
This would over time 'draw' aliens to the star while giving some protection against hostile civilizations. We should be looking for something grand like this, not some 'hydrogen times pi' nonsense.
Re:How is this different from Radio, TV Signals? (Score:4, Interesting)
Main problem I'm seeing with the 'Oh, no, we're all gonna be FOOD' crowd saying we should hide from any possible extraterrestrial contact is that yes, our radio signals are out there. At the current distance, the 'radio shell' is extremely weak. It's that pesky inverse square law. To get an idea, it'd be on the order of detecting a gnat's fart during a heavy metal rock concert. In New York City. From Buenos Aires.
Do I advocate Active SETI? You bet. Who knows what ET can teach us til we make contact? Of course, with our history we're liable to be declared a slum & placed offlimits til we get our heads on straight...
Easy proof other intelligent life forms exist ... (Score:3, Interesting)
"There is not one iota of evidence that there exists one other intelligent form of life in the universe"
- Whales
- Dolphins
- Porpoises
- Dogs
- Chimpanzees
- Cats
- Crows
- Ravens
- Apes
- Rats
These are all intelligent life forms - they can learn, some of them make and use tools, and even know how to make their own home-made hooch.Now if you had said "There is not one iota of evidence that there exists ANY intelligent form of life in Washington", you might have been more right.
Re:UFOs of the 20th century (Score:5, Interesting)
reminds me of a twilight zone episode (Score:3, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Small_Talent_for_War_(The_Twilight_Zone) [wikipedia.org]
Things We Cannot Change (Score:1, Interesting)
- If there are extraterrestrials visiting our planet, we have absolutely nothing they could possibly want.
- If extraterrestrials want to exterminate us, there is absolutely nothing we can do.
Think about it. They have the means to cross vast reaches of space, and access to technology we can only dream about in fiction novels. It isn't magic, but it's an advantage. Imagine a modern 21st century American army stumbles upon a tribe of cavemen, dwelling in a cave hidden deep in the jungles, undisturbed by "civilization" for thousands of years.
- Could the cavemen have anything we want?
- Could the cavemen possibly hide if we decided we wanted to utterly obliterate (i.e.: read nuke) them?
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference."
Re:I think we can all agree... (Score:3, Interesting)
You'd just better hope those aliens don't sneeze on you!
but what actual facts do we have? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Why would aliens care? (Score:3, Interesting)
You're kidding, right?
Assuming we progress to the point of cheap and common interstellar travel, if we suddenly heard of a primitive culture "over there" do you think it is more likely we would:
a. shrug
b. watch in horror as scores of independent missionaries from our own species descended on the helpless planet to bring them the word of <insert deity>.
c. enslave them.
d. set up trade negotiations for their resources.
Looking to our own history, I'd say all the above.
Re:You can't protect yourself against the nonexist (Score:3, Interesting)
"As far as I'm aware it only relies on the conflict between two assumptions: first, that intelligent life is common in the universe; and second, that intelligent life would be interested in exploration and communication, as we are. Neither of these assumptions is controversial."
There are other assumptions that you've ignored, as did Fermi. Just off the top of my head, here's 5 large assumptions that are left out.
Re:You can't protect yourself against the nonexist (Score:3, Interesting)
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, at this point in time all we can conclusively say about the existence of other life in space is that we don't know (and might never know)one way or the other.
Re:You can't protect yourself against the nonexist (Score:3, Interesting)
As for a bolt, well, you know that would be almost impossible. Metal degrades over time because of exposure. Rust, corrosion and so on limits the life of a recognizable piece. And seriously think about this, if we cannot get away from earth isn't nuts and bolts sufficiently heavy enough to last centuries, what make you think that anyone or anything else would. There is a book that I cannot remember the name of but it basically talks about things that should not be in archaeological terms. One is a layer of coal that supposedly is older then man has been on earth in which a diamond necklace was found. It could be a plant, it could be that we labeled the age of the deposit incorrectly, it could be a mistake or it could be dropped there by some other people who visited us years ago. Once I can remember the name of the book, I will post it but I hope someone else knows of it and mentions it first. It doesn't mean that aliens were here but it is what you asked for, stuff out of order like a bolt or something.
Now, lets be clear with something. I'm not saying that aliens have visited the earth. I'm saying we cannot rule that out because of what you want to believe. I would think if aliens visited today, we would end up with some religion revolving around it that would seem yo have crazy whacked out shit like Angels, dragons or whatever. Especially if they could become invisible to the human eye and walk with us helping out here and there when needed. Or if they could read our thoughts and hear our prayers. The possible connections are endless.
Re:How is this different from Radio, TV Signals? (Score:3, Interesting)
If there are aliens with a spacefaring civilisation, they are either slow, and thus unlikely to bother contacting us for a few thousand / million years after receiving our radio messages (a time period they will view as short-term), or quick, and thus unlikely to be interested in a civilisation so primitive that they are still using light-speed communications. If it's the former, we are likely to have serious problems communicating with them.