Charlton Heston's Impact On Sci-Fi 531
An anonymous reader writes "As you're probably already aware, Charlton Heston passed away yesterday. Wired has a piece looking back at Heston's extremely notable work in the sci-fi genre, with roles in films like "Planet of the Apes" and "Soylent Green". 'Heston also roared out some of sci-fi's greatest and most memorable lines, bringing his macho swagger and over-the-top intensity to the screen in movies like 1973's food freak-out flick Soylent Green and the Planet of the Apes series. In a pivotal scene from 1968's Planet of the Apes (see clip), Heston's character, time-traveling astronaut George Taylor, utters the first words spoken by a human to the simian rulers of a bizarro future Earth: "Take your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!'"
Yeah, Heston! (Score:5, Insightful)
RIP (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:5, Insightful)
Heston saw no difference between campaign for personal freedom and the means to defend those freedoms.
I can just imagine him going up to Moses and saying "Well, what did you think? Did I do you justice?"
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, Heston! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Finally... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, Heston! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Finally... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you'll find a lot of actors with kinda bizarro political views on all sides of the spectrum. And a good number of them are quite politically active.
I'm old enough to remember some people saying such sentiments about John Wayne when he died. I'm sure some people on the other side of the political spectrum will say similar things about Jane Fonda, or Streisand when they die.
In short: They're pooterheads.
These are actors. Yes, they've been politically active. Lots of people are. But unlike Reagan or Schwarzenegger they've not run for political office.
Yes, you may disagree with them. But, Isn't singing and strumming happy tunes to their death a bit much?
To blatantly steal a quote from Sergeant Hulka in Stripes "Lighten up, Francis."
Re:Finally... (Score:5, Insightful)
How do you define an 'NRA Extremist'? Is it anybody who believes the citizenry should be able to defend itself from a tyrannical government? Is it the kind of person who is 840 times less likely [mcgonigle.us] to commit gun crime than the general population?
Re:Finally... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not this arguement again. (Score:5, Insightful)
Define fascism any why you like...you will anyhow.
But history tells a different story. It was in both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy a combination of state and corporation. Corporations did what the state told them to or were taken over outright. Fascist were more then socialists in name. State takes over corporations in fascism as in all forms of centrally planned economies (in mixed economies like Europe and the USA some industries are run as government planned and often owned monopolies). When corporations take over the state it's called 'Corporatism'.
For examples of corporations running states outright a jaded eye could look at the recent history of sub Saharan Africa or the history of the English empire. Not pretty either but nothing like the body count leftism in general has built.
'Progressivism' as it's currently defined is simply the latest name for old school socialist thinking. Socialism does have an inherent concentration of power issue. Government run industries are almost always monopolies.
In any case as long as we keep ourselves well armed we as Americans will be too expensive to govern with too heavy a hand. That was the ultimate purpose of the second. It had nothing to do with hunting, everything to do with enabling at least the threat of the next armed revolution.
Go to the range folks. The gun is useless if you can't practice gun control.
Charlton Heston would have wanted you to go to the range soon. I'd say to take your kids with you, but this is /. Damn am I on topic? WTF am I doing?
Take a safety course if you're getting your first weapon. Start with a 22LR pistol or rifle.
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:5, Insightful)
When you look at his life in its entirety, it makes perfect sense. What it comes down to is that Charlton Heston became involved with the NRA for the same reason that he marched with Dr. Martin Luther King--to him, it was a civil rights issue.
You can debate the right and wrong of the American right to keep and bear arms until the cows come home, but like it or not, the men who founded our nation had certain beliefs about what constituted the natural rights of men. They wrote some of these rights into our Constitution: free speech, a free press, freedom of religion, the right to be secure from intrusive government searches, the right to a trial by a jury of your peers, the right to bear arms, and more. Heston was a man who believed in those rights, and was willing to lend his fame to various causes in support of them. That's really all there is to it.
So, feel free to think less of him for it (I'm sure that while he disagreed with what you had to say, he would have defended to the death your right to say it) but while you're doing so, also think about the notion that if you start to pick and choose what rights you think people ought to have, and try to redefine those rights out of existence, then someone else later will have an easier time of stripping the citizenry of the rights that YOU yourself hold dear. One need look no further than the current occupant of the white house to see such a process in action.
Re:Oblig. (Score:5, Insightful)
When Alec Guinness died, we said that he's become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
When Douglas Adams died, we said that he's no doubt spending a year dead for tax reasons.
When Arthur C. Clarke died, we said that he's probably been reincarnated as a large orbiting fetus.
When Gary Gygax died, we said that he's lost his last saving throw.
No, it's never too early, especially if the deceased would have appreciated the joke. When Terry Gilliam dies, you bet we're going to say: "Well you're dead now, so shut up." When Neal Stephenson dies, you bet we're going to comment about how the ending was a bit abrupt.
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:3, Insightful)
What a crock of shit. The murder rate from guns stands at around 200/yr out of 20 million, it did before the bans and it still does after the bans (10yrs ago btw). There has been a small drop in suicides by gun.
What people fail to realise is that Aussies were never really gun nuts to start with, owning a handgun has always been uncommon, carrying one has always been socially unacceptable.
Re:Finally... (Score:3, Insightful)
It allowed a small group in Waco, TX to fend off the federal government for nearly 2 months.
If you mean that a SINGLE person cant defend itself against the military, you are correct. But who ever suggested that was the case?
I'm for gun control and no huge fan of Jefferson, but any American who believes in the idea of a separation between church and state (which derived from a non-official letter between Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists Association) should at least acknowldge his beliefs on an armed populace:
Personally, I find it bizzare how you easily misunderstand things.
Re:RIP (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Republicans (Score:4, Insightful)
No need to be Republican - it's important to admit when people on your side are being dishonest. (And "Bowling for Columbine" misrepresented Charlton Heston's actions and basically everything else it portrayed.) One could argue that the party of Lincoln fell so far because Republicans wouldn't call out Republicans for ethical lapses, and it'd be sad if the Democrats followed them any further down that road.
Re:Finally... (Score:3, Insightful)
We'll never be able to subdue a well armed insurgency, right?
They'll fight to the end and win, right?
They have to believe these things, otherwise their main reason for having a "well armed militia" to defend against government oppression is just a bunch of hoo-ha.
Re:Oblig. (Score:5, Insightful)
Seemed to work ok in Vietnam and Iraq! (Score:5, Insightful)
It sucks for we USA but that seems to be working just fine for the insurgents in Iraq. 20 billion dollars a month in occupation is being spent trying to suppress an insurgency that is armed with little more than homemade explosives and automatic weapons. If that does not give you an idea as to the efficacy of the right to keep and bear arms in keeping out a government that you do not like, then nothing will.
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:In the "Planet of the Apes" remake (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it wasn't. He wasn't giving an anti-gun speech at all, in that role. He was showing (as an ape) the fear and loathing of the intellect that could make the guns...
Heston spent many years pointing out that people who fear the gun are too chickenshit to admit that it's really other people they fear. His ape character was a really good, (classically Heston!) over the top indictment of the irrational habit of blaming the tool and/or the symbol, rather than the person who uses them in a way you dislike. It was brilliant, and the only irony to be found is in the mis-comprehension of what he chose do with it by so many people who saw it.
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess you think that sounds pretty nutters doesn't it?
What if her response had been, "What are the odds I'll be able to retreive my gun, unlock it, load it, and successfully fend off a murderer/rapist?"
What percentage of people who have a gun are actually able to use it in these circumstances they imagine it will be so useful in? Any real statistics out there?
What if her response had been, "What if I had a gun, and it was stolen while I was out, and used to shoot a small child?" or "What if I had a gun, and one of those children you were so concerned about accidently shot the other one with it?"
Again, what percentage of people who have a gun are involved in accidental / misuse / etc?
In other words, what percentage of guns end up actually used to prevent a crime vs end up being used to commit one and/or are involved in accidental shootings?
What if the number involved in crimes / accidental shootings significantly exceeds the number that actually actively prevented crimes... ??
In any case, I recently had a conversation with a pro-gun man. It was very civil, so no over the top rhetoric. When asked what he would do if his teenage child ever got pissed off at him, and in a fit of incredibly poor judgement takes the gun and shoots you with it. Then realizing what he's done, turns it on himself.
His response was simply "I've that decide that won't happen to me." When followed up with a "What?" He explained that people decide to have those things happen to them, [when they choose ineffective parenting approaches, and fail to teach their children proper respect of guns], and that he had chosen not to have that happen to anyone in his family.
Pro-gun types actually beleive that guns have magical powers to imbue people with good judgment, so if guns are given to THEM, they will somehow magically be immune from ever 'misusing' it or using it 'accidentally'.
One thing that always strikes me as bizarre, stupid, whatever, is people like my neighbor with 3 huge guns. Specially states that he feels safer having them because he lives alone, but thinks that home security systems and dogs are ineffectual. Yet, a big gun in the closet... that will stop criminals from attacking him...
Don't get me wrong, i'm not anti-gun, myself. But lousy reasoning exists on both sides of the argument. And bottom line, the only questions I'm interested in:
Does having a gun actually make me safer? Or is it more likely to get me or someone I care about killed?
Am I more likely to prevent a crime with it, or is it more likely that it will enable / escalate one?
I don't know the answer to those questions.
I do know I hear daily about some gun being misused, or accidently fired, or used in a fit of passion... I don't often hear about people who were able to fend off murderer/rapists with their gun. Call it media bias if you want... but until I see a REAL credible study done... well... I have serious doubts that guns will make me safer. I firmly beleive, for my own family, that the odds of the kids having an accident with it, FAR exceed the odds we'll get our home invaded by a murderous/rapist. But that's just me.
Re:Oblig. (Score:2, Insightful)
Being the president of the NRA is one of the most notable _real_ things he's actually done.
Re:Oblig. (Score:4, Insightful)
Right.
Incidentally, he did write a film and directed three.
Re:Republicans (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's why I keep a sword zip-tied to the bedstand behind my pillow.
Re:Yeah, Heston! (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe if you said something about judeochristianity, you'd have a point... No, wait, then it couldn't be "fundamentalist" anymore.
And yes, you are a troll, which is probably why you were modded as such.
Re:Finally... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Finally... (Score:3, Insightful)
"Reasonable discussions" with gun prohibitionists usually revolve around "which additional class of guns are we going to outlaw today?"...which is why most in the pro-gun crowd aren't too interested in having a reasonable discussion. In fact, the entire gun-control argument is one pretty much entirely based off of sensationalist hysterics.
Re:Oblig. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Finally... (Score:3, Insightful)
No need to drag the phony conservative/liberal left/right political dichotomy into things...
Re:He was legend (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:In the "Planet of the Apes" remake (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Republicans (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a bit hard to do because his most insidious, dishonest points are ones he denies making at all. His subtle edits and omissions of facts lead the viewer to an erroneous conclusion that was never explicitly stated.
It's been a long time since I looked into this, but iirc Moore manipulated Charlton Heston into saying something which could be seen as racist (neglecting to mention that the man actually marched with MLK Jr!), implied that Heston led a rally in Colorado in response to Columbine (it was planned well in advance), and that Heston used language which, given the situation, was quite inflammatory (those snippets were actually spliced together from several different rallies). He made many other, less topical, manipulations of fact.
I am a Democrat, and I am disappointed that so few Democrats complain about Moore.
Re:Yeah, Heston! (Score:2, Insightful)
That aside - I have no idea what mr Heston's impact on anything was, but I have see the 10 Cmds, and I found him overly pompous; he didn't make me believe in the character he portrayed. But, hey, I may just be ignorant and uncultured.
Re:Let's not forget (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I won't dispute your right to distribute pamphlets printed on a hand-crank press using lead type, but nothing more recent.
Re:In the "Planet of the Apes" remake (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm "pro-choice." If I want to own one, it should be my choice. (and my responsibility) Thus, freedom to chose. Are you saying you want to limit my freedom of choice?
And FWIW, when I go skeet shooting, you kind of need a gun for that. Somehow throwing flowers at the skeet just doesn't work as well. The weapon I chose, should be whichever I chose. Though I'll probably get modded flamebait on this post.
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:1, Insightful)
unarmed = subject
It's so simple. What do you not understand?
But I do feel better knowing idiots like you aren't carrying guns.
Uh-huh. And could you please explain exactly why it is that you think that having a collection of hunting rifles, handguns, or the occasional semi-automatic weapon somehow makes you immune to having the government impose it's will on you by force? Because if it's a pissing contest between you and the government about who has the most firepower then you'll lose every time. If the government doesn't like you and wants to take you out, your guns will be about as effective in defending yourself as nerf balls. Just ask the guys at Ruby Ridge or the Branch Davidians in Waco. I assure you, the media coverage of the events did far more to prevent the government from steamrolling both groups than their ownership of large quantities of guns ever did.
Man, it chills me to know that idiots like you are wandering around armed.
Re:Good riddance... (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't forget to include "civil rights moron." AC, you can be such an idiot.
Re:He was legend (Score:4, Insightful)
Much better ending than the movie. And I still think it's appropriate for film. The viewer probably will start to sympathize with the intelligent vampires near the end, because of the compassionate woman and because they are an acceptable replacement for the human race.
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:3, Insightful)
Basically:
They came for the Second Amendment by taking away our right to own a gun.
I didn't own a gun so I remained silent.
They came for the Fifth Amendment with warrantless wiretapping.
I didn't think I had anything to hide so I remained silent.
They came for the Sixth Amendment by declaring people "enemy combatants" and detaining them indefinitely without trial.
I wanted to seem Patriotic so I remained silent.
They came for the First Amendment with DCMA Censorship and by marking off Free Speech Zones.
I didn't want to rock the boat so I remained silent.
Then they came for me and I realized that I had no rights left.
Re:In the "Planet of the Apes" remake (Score:1, Insightful)
Society does this all the time. What if I want a blonde and a brunette as a wife (and perhaps a red-headed lass as well)? Society is limiting my choice to only one.
Now, in the US, it was decided way back when that the choice of owning arms could never be taken away. Whether this was wise or not remains to be seen (the story is still being written).
Re:Most famous quote. (Score:3, Insightful)
See, it's stuff like that which keeps me from owning a:
-swimming pool or hot tub
-swingset
-hammer
-electrical outlet
-car or truck
-anything made out of glass
-climbable tree
-pet
-knife
-rope
-paint or other chemical
-soldering iron
-aspirin or other OTC drugs
-5-gallon bucket
-charcoal grill
-washing machine or dryer
-large freezer
-baseballs or bats
-stairs
-powerful magnets
-matches
The number one killer for kids 5-14 is accidents (mostly vehicle accidents). Anything and everything that can possibly kill someone, HAS killed someone. 5-gallon buckets have that infant warning sticker on the side for a reason (also mandated by law). I understand the desire to childproof the home, but there is NO such thing as childproof. Haven't you people ever been 5-14 before? My 14-year-old cousin killed himself. I knew how to pick locks at that age. Some of my friends were already starting to experiment with drugs.
My point is that we cannot surrender our every right and privilege in the name of protecting a demographic that has proven consistently to have no other aim in life besides getting hurt and disobeying simple commands. I feel absolutely terrible for any family that has had to work through the loss of a child (been there); however, it bugs me that on BOTH sides of the debate, guns are imbued with special powers and emotional baggage that turns them into semi-human enemies/saviors. They are pieces of metal, people. If violence scares you, then come to grips with violence, not guns. If violence turns you on, then you need to come to grips with that. Anyone with a fierce opinion in this debate needs to take a fearless inventory of their own emotional baggage and discern their real agenda. I'm not saying that one side is inherently more correct than the other.
For the record, I believe in waiting periods, gun registration, background checks, submitting factory fired bullets to law enforcement, etc. I believe that once those conditions are met, and safety standards are continued to be met, guns should be available to those who want them.
Of course I also think that kids shouldn't drive until they're 18, so whatever. My social contract would place a lot more responsibility on individuals than our current one.
-b
Re:In the "Planet of the Apes" remake (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously--this is the failure of thought that leads to a lot of these silly laws. People--smart people, even--think that, if you take away permission, then somebody won't be able to do something bad.
You miss the point that if he's going to do something bad, he probably doesn't care about "permission."
This is why many of us thing the "gun control" laws are silly: they assume that the person bent on committing a violent crime gives a tinker's damn about "permission" to own a gun.
Guess what: he doesn't.
And, beyond that, are you saying that the way to handle somebody you believe is going to commit murder is to waggle your finger at him and say "no, please don't do that?" Seriously--take away a piece of paper? Are you kidding me?
Do something about it! If you have good reason, don't look into taking away his permission slip, look into taking away his freedom. He can't run people down if he's cooling his heels in a jail cell, and if you have (solid) reason to believe he's going to commit murder, he can be legally detained.
These are the twin failures of the "gun control" movement: belief that criminals care about the rules (hint: criminals, by definition, break rules), and belief that behaviour is controlled by objects, instead of people. Address the person--the criminal--not the tool.
Re:Oblig. (Score:2, Insightful)