Geohashing Meets an Angry Rancher With Firearms

katicli writes "Geohashing, an obscure xkcd pastime which involves going to random coordinates generated by md5 hashing, the date, and the opening status of the stock market, appears to have just gotten far more interesting. The official wiki reports a warning for other geohashers intending to go to the spot designated for June 14th in the San Francisco area, as several avid fans of xkcd were met by an angry rancher and firearms."

Overreactions

[BWJones]

My first reaction is that the geohashing folks overreacted. I might be a little concerned and take photos of license plates if a bunch of people suddenly showed up on my property somewhere out in the boonies.

As to the firearms, were they scared at the mere presence of firearms or did the ranchers actually point them at anyone? If they simply saw the guns in the truck, what possibly could have scared them? Ooooh, guns.... scary.

Re:Overreactions

[ScrewMaster]

To a lot of overprotected-live-in-the-parent's-basement technojock types, a gun is scary, if nothing else because of unfamiliarity. Besides, if the ranchers were taking pictures of license plates, odds are they were planning on involving law enforcement, not gunning anyone down.

Re:Overreactions

[Brian Gordon]

Yeah, I don't know why the xkcd folks think they can just get away with this.. you can't just drive out to a random spot; that's called trespassing unless it just happens to be on public land.

Re:Overreactions

[Wog]

Yep.

"Two vehicles later drove on property, first truck with two rifles or shotguns in plain sight."

Egads, the ranchers had firearms mounted in their trucks! OH NOES, THEY MUST BE FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE OF MURDERING US, THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBLE EXPLANATION!

Please, PLEASE take note that nobody said that threats were ever made, or that firearms were ever presented in a menacing way. For anyone that works with livestock, having long guns mounted in vehicles and handguns on one's person is absolutely normal, routine, and safe.

If I were running a ranch and a bunch of 20-somethings showed up on my private property, I would be taking pictures and making sure I had a weapon at hand, too.

I'm a fan of XKCD and love the idea of Geohashing, but these folks really should make an effort to notify landowners and get permission before entering private property.

The reaction scares me (and not the local's)

[Ferzerp]

If these people were scared by the mere presence of a few guns, this seriously worries me about the future of the 2nd amendment. I guess there is solace to be taken in knowing that the people who would read that comic and go to that place aren't a very good representative set of the people though.

Still it worries me.

Re:Overreactions

[bsDaemon]

the amount of FPSism that abounds in certain sectors of the geek community, you'd think that they'd be desensitized to guns by now.

I grew up in the sticks and shot in rifle competitions when I was a kid. I grew up around guns and I have some now. The gun isn't the scary thing.

The scary thing is an unknown person with one. Especially an unknown person whose private property you've just invaded without permission - and apparently in numbers.

Why does that guy take the gun with him? Because how the hell does he know what this large group of hippies that just showed up in his property wants? They're just there for a math joke, but for all he knows they're trying to set up the next woodstock.

The moral of the story is, don't tresspass and then bitch when the owner of the property asserts his rights. Then again, around here people root for the cracker kids and the mp3 traders, so I'm not really surprised.

geocaching in a paranioa-state

[v1]

Too many people wigging out nowadays with the "unattended package" scares to geocache anymore. If you go out in the woods and leave something hidden, or interact with something hidden, and someone sees you, too great of odds that they will call the bomb squad or DNR or something like that.

The Real World

[uspsguy]

WOW! a bunch of people from San Francisco ventured out in to the real world and found that people have strange ideas like property rights and the right to bear arms. I'm glad they got an education.

Re:Overreactions

[andphi]

I agree. If I were a property owner (particularly with livestock) and suddenly a bunch of folks with GPS units showed up on my land and headed for a specific spot without so much as a 'by your leave' or 'Hi, we're here to do X. We'll do X quickly and be gone,' I'd be suspicious as well and likely to reach for the biggest gun I own. The geohashers could just as easily have been livestock rustlers.

I like XKCD as much as the next geek, but if they do this sort of thing without due consideration for the people whose land they're traipsing over, they should, well, STOP.

Re:Culture --weird

[debatem1]

Why would somebody owning a gun be "scary" or "a lunatic"? I can understand the fear of guns empowering criminals (even if I don't agree with the conclusions some reach on that basis) but guns in the hands of the good guys should probably be reassuring, not alarming.

And so it goes...

[QuietLagoon]

... people with too much time on their hands, annoying the rest of the world, calling it fun, and blaming it on the Internet [xkcd.com].

Re:Overreactions

[Toonol]

The right to privacy means that I can't stop people from trespassing on my property? I have no right to privacy on my own land? Your definition of rights has some internal inconsistencies, buddy.

Re:Overreactions

[couchslug]

"The right to roam" may be fine in isolated instances of ethnically homogeneous countries with no appreciable rural crime rate.

The US is not that, and allowing it would be absurd and instantly exploited by criminals. There is ample historic support for protecting rural property from rustlers, theft, etc. Remember that the special conditions which apply in tiny areas like Scotland have no bearing on the rest of the world which faces MUCH different realities.

Re:Overreactions

[Joe Tie.]

But somehow, because it's a remote area they think they can do it without getting caught.

Re:Overreactions

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

No, that should just make them more sensitive to death. From watching "SAW IV" I discovered that its easy to get two people to rip each others guts out with meathooks. If anything that should make me more sensitive to meathooks, right?

If you saw meathooks in a non-meatlocker, meathandler, butcher kind of context, yes. It'd certainly make me suspicious.

Re:Overreactions

[Anonymous Coward]

In "free countries"... gimme a break. Go for a romp on the grounds of Balmoral Castle and tell us what happens. Even the first line from your link has the qualifier "...on most lands provided they act responsibly." Think that means universal access? It's almost as easy to crap on the US as it is to put down Microsoft on Slashdot, but if you think for one minute that the US didn't revolutionize real property rights then you're ignorant.

Re:Overreactions

[MrMista_B]

Overreacted?

So, what, you think you shouldn't be more cautious than usual around people with guns, or do you think it's something that can be safely ignored without comment?

Myself, if I go somewhere, and a guy with a couple of guns in his truck pulls up, I'm not going to be thinking he's just a cute handsome stranger. They were *right* to be concerned when guns are involved - an overreaction would be ignoring them and doing nothing.

Also, in the future, if they go to a location and there's angry farmers with guns on location, they would be *right* to mention that, maybe, *maybe* it's not a good idea to go there. Or would that be another overreaction?

Why Is This News?

[John Hasler]

So a bunch of citiots tried to go onto private property without permission to have a party and got warned off. Why is this news?

Re:Culture --weird

[Grey_14]

I dunno why people always think a fear of firearms is irrational, it is a device made for the sole purpose of killing or wounding a living creature, it does so in an instant with the twitch of a finger. couple that with the general fact that people are idiots (the geohashers in this case seemed to be the idiots, but it's a fair general rule to live by, unless proven otherwise: people are idiots.). I'm afraid of firearms, I'd rather they never be anywhere near me. I'm not one to advocate that they all be taken away either because unfortunately the cat is out of the bag there, people have guns and getting them away from criminals AND legitimate owners would be pretty much impossible now.

Anyways, yeah they overreacted to someone just having guns in their truck, but I don't think being afraid of or uncomfortable around guns is all that irrational.

Re:Overreactions

[Oktober Sunset]

A tool is just a tool.

Yea, I think you just demonstrated that...

Re:Culture --weird

[Ferzerp]

Actually, it is a device made for the sole purpose of propelling a projectile to really fast speeds. Any application of this function is the responsibility of the individual user.

It always amuses me that the slashdot crowd will defend some technology (e.g. vulnerability detection software, p2p, etc) and claim that the individual is responsible for the use, but then say things like what you've said.

By the way, bittorrent is made for the sole purpose of unauthorized distribution of copyrighted works. (see how that sounds? now reread what you wrote)

I guess we only believe in individual responsibility here when it fits our agenda.

Re:Overreactions

[maxume]

Huge swaths of people have absolutely no problem trespassing. They are the folks that shoot out locks on gates, shit on gates, snowmobile over tree seedlings, snowmobile on land simply because there are tracks, hunt and trap illegally, road hunt turkeys at what are major road intersections for a rural area, litter wantonly, throw their empties out the window to avoid open container problems, etc.

Re:Overreactions

[ampmouse]

Are you saying you wouldn't have run away? We had already been there for over an hour so there was no point in staying to see what might or might not happen. Generally it's not a good idea to get in a gun fight with a rancher on their own property.

Re:Culture --weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Ranchers usually don't carry guns with the intention of chasing off humans. The guns were more likely there to chase of coyotes, or to help keep down the jack rabbit population. Or because the guy's also a hunter and just didn't bother to take the guns out of the pickup before making effort to call the cops on the trespassing yahoos.

The really sad thing is. I grew up in an area where farming and ranching is the primary business. And if these idiots had taken the time to walk up to the ranchers house, explain why they were there and ask permission, they probably would have been welcomed. Or they might have been told pertinent reasons why they should go there. I don't go through neighbors fields just in case they have a mean bull in the herd or a territorial dog.

 

Re:Culture --weird

[Tony Hoyle]

Bad example - bittorrent *was* - the creator admitted it publicly.

Yes and the purpose of a gun is to kill. Your definition is like saying 'the purpose of a car is to rotate wheels at a specific speed'. It's meaningless.

Re:Overreactions

[Anonymous Coward]

Um.. There's generally a distinction between a farm and a ranch too.

Just saying.

Re:Culture --weird

[ScrewMaster]

You're absolutely right, but I'd say it's less a matter of fundamental hypocrisy as it is one of fear. And that's mostly from unfamiliarity ... people are afraid of the unknown. We're pretty much hardwired for that, and in this case I think the government does us a disservice by discouraging people from owning firearms or learning how to use them properly. I'd rather have someone who knows what he's doing with a gun holding one on me, rather than someone who's never fired one before and is terrified of it. That applies as much to criminals as it does to us law-abiding types.

It's a machine people. Yes, it's one that requires some knowledge and self-discipline to own and use safely, but that's all it is. Would that We the People spent as much time bitching about the poorly-trained drivers we have in this country as we do about gun owners. The untold millions of four-wheeled sociopaths on the road today are responsible for a hell of a lot more death, destruction and general mayhem than all gun owners combined. But that's okay, you see, because cars are technology that we all find comfortable and familiar, in spite of the fact that a car is just as much of a weapon as a .44 Magnum. If everyone carried a gun, but only a few drove automobiles, we'd all be irrationally afraid of cars.

Personally, I'm far more concerned about being killed on the way to work by some lobeless, cell-phone-wielding, SUV-driving thimblebrain than I am about being shot. If the Feds really (I'm mean, really) want to make our lives safer, they should force the states to implement some serious training requirements for obtaining a driver's license. That should mean a CV (Commercial Vehicle) license for anyone that wants to drive a big SUV. Do that, and leave gun owners alone, and they would save a lot more lives each year.

Re:Overreactions

[zoomshorts]

Agreed, private property is PRIVATE, posted or not.
People should respect the property of others, regardless
of postings.

Having said that, I would not be concerned about people
who drove by my land and stopped for a short time. It is
when they trespass, that they cross the line.

Trespassers will be SHOT, Survivors will be SHOT AGAIN.

Such is the reality of private property. Just because it
shows up on a map or Geo-Whatever, does not mean you can invade.

Slashdotters note, as you get older, you resist kids trampling
on your flowers or garden. Life is strange. We worked to cultivate
this random or carefully planted 'wilderness'. Stay out until YOU
pay for the taxes.

Re:Overreactions

[Score Whore]

Re-read the "article." Sounds like the people who interacted with the farmer were told to stay off. And later a truck drove on the property that had visible guns. From what I can glean no one that the trespassers interacted with had a visible gun. Just that they saw a gun in a truck on the property.

The children need to grow up. I wonder how upset they each time the find new evidence that the real world isn't an amusement park there for their entertainment, sanitized and clean and all about hugging them.

Re:Overreactions

[clang_jangle]

Just yesterday I had to run some people off my land. I have it posted "NO TRESPASSING" very clearly all around the perimeter, no way can anyone end up on my property and claim not to know (unless they don't read English, I guess). Though I don't grab my shotgun before setting off to confront stupid people like that, most of my neighbors do. I can't say I blame them. These geohashers (and anyone else who shows up unannounced on private property) are pretty much looking to become s statistic.

To you city folks who think this is wrong, how would you like to wake up and find me in your living room?

Irrational..

[E IS mC(Square)]

Hey, your irrational fear of firearms is showing.

Yep, its irrational. After all, most of the school massacres do NOT happen in the US.

An Angry Rancher with guns?

[CrimsonAvenger]

A bit misleading that. Article DOES mention "two very unfriendly vehicles" and "Two vehicles later drove on property, first truck with two rifles or shotguns in plain sight."

It doesn't seem to mention an encounter with the owner of the vehicles/guns, though. Perhaps because they apparently wet themselves and fled at the sight of the gunrack in the pickup (where my family lives, gunracks in pickups are so much a part of life that the only time you notice them is when the pickup does NOT have one)/

I do, however, agree with this statement by one of the geohashers - "in the future, we should respect property owners". A lot of trouble can be avoided by following that guideline.

Re:Overreactions

[Secrity]

They need to do far more than make an attempt to contact the landowner, they need to get permission from the landowner.

Re:Overreactions

[Wavebreak]

Right to roam wins. How it's mostly a nordic concept and not a universal one boggles me.

Re:Overreactions

[Andraax]

I notice that in the link you provided, access rights DO NOT EXIST for "houses ... and associated land" - a ranch would qualify under this definition, so access rights would not apply.

Helps if you provide actual evidence that you're wrong. ;-)

The laws you're talking about provide access rights to public land and limited access over private land to REACH public land.

Re:Culture --weird

[Andraax]

I dunno why people always think a fear of firearms is irrational, it is a device made for the sole purpose of killing or wounding a living creature, it does so in an instant with the twitch of a finger.

Oh no!

All of my handguns must be broken, since they've never killed or wounded any living creature!

Re:Overreactions

[morari]

Does it matter either way? I always have a gun behind the door and in various drawers throughout the house. If someone is trespassing, it is best to assume that they want trouble. If not, then you are naive and that may come back to bite you one day. Your first reaction shouldn't generally be to shove a gun in someones face, but having one on hand is always for the best. Furthermore, if you want, having one on hand in in plain sight (say in a shoulder holster) is even better. That way, you don't have people claiming to "accidentally" be trespassing while in actuality they are sniffing around, planning to come back and rob you later. It's a subtle show of force that makes dicking with you not worth the time and trouble.

Re:Culture --weird

[Firethorn]

Additionally, most firearm murders* are criminal on criminal. If you're not a criminal, hanging out with criminals, you're as safe or safer in the United States than you are elsewhere. Personally, I blame the war on drugs.

*I'm excluding suicides because they'd just find another, and accidents because the real accident rate is insignificant.

Re:Overreactions

[Rudolf]

Generally it's not a good idea to get in a gun fight with a rancher on their own property.

Generally, it's not a good idea to be on private property without permission.

Re:Overreactions

[Hansu]

yah, well my excuse is, that I'm not a native english speaker, so I'm not sure of the correct terms, sorry about that. Anyhow, I'm talking of a place with cows and horses and some smaller animals. But still, no guns in sight. You people watch too much Bonanza or some such :-P

Re:Overreactions

[Hansu]

And I was just replying to the "For anyone that works with livestock, having long guns mounted in vehicles and handguns on one's person is absolutely normal, routine, and safe." comment, that it in fact isn't that common to have a firearm on/with you even if you work on a ranch/farm. Yes, guns are tools, but no, not everyone is carrying a six shooter or rifle/shotgun on them all the time. Only when they see a specific use for it.

(And this is of course in the old world, you settlers may of course have other practices, with the wolves and injuns and all that :-P)

Re:Culture --weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent up, of particular amusement "Because someone picked up their gun, and showed it to an aggressor, thus ending the conflict before it ever becomes violent." - if drawing down on someone isn't an escalation in violence I have no idea what is. +5 informative my ass.

Trespassers!

[Anonymous Coward]

Entering private property without permission is trespassing and is illegal just about everywhere. Clueless induhviduals think it's OK. They enter someone elses land just as recklessly as they would enter someone elses computer. It's called RESPECT, people! Learn it. Do it. Get some.

Re:Culture --weird

[Jawn98685]

I dunno why people always think a fear of firearms is irrational, it is a device made for the sole purpose of killing or wounding a living creature...

Bzzzzzzt! Wrong. Thanks for playing.

I own several guns. Several of those have never even been pointed at a living thing, despite having thousands of rounds put through them. One of those was designed and manufactured "for the sole purpose" of punching little holes in paper (hopefully, very close together). Another, for breaking small clay disks.

You fear is irrational. It springs from ignorance. There are a great many things that are far more likely to cause you bodily harm than firearms. Granted, there are some gun owners who shouldn't be trusted with anything even as dangerous as a pointy stick, but there are, for example, even more automobile drivers who shouldn't be trusted with anything faster than a skateboard. Do you likewise have a fear of cars? I'll wager that you do not, despite that fact that you are far more likely to be gunned down by some arrested-adolescent speeding through traffic in buzzing import car than you are by a gun owner.

Re:The reaction scares me (and not the local's)

[Farmer Tim]

Guns aren't scary: they're a predictable mechanical device. People, on the other hand, are highly unpredictable and should be treated with a certain amount of caution when they make it perfectly clear they're armed, especially if you happen to be doing something illegal at the time like tresspassing.

Seems to me the geohashers decided to avoid turning a fun day out into a lot of hassle with either ranchers or police, and issued an appropriately detailed warning. So rather than being afraid of guns, perhaps they're just not reckless idiots.

Re:Overreactions

[clang_jangle]

I'm sure you have your own reasons for wanting those kids to get off your lawn, but we all live on this planet, why not share? Why not join them?

Great idea! Why don't you start by leaving your door open and welcoming whomever wants in. After all, who are you to deny shelter, kitchen, and bathroom privileges to the homeless?

But seriously, after over 30 years of living in major cities (San Francisco, L.A., Philadelphia, Seattle, Atlanta) I've had enough and when I get home I want peace and quiet and I wish to be left alone. If you want to buy land and open it up to the public, you've got that right. Personally, I want my little forest and my little pond to remain pristine and undisturbed. I worked my butt off for 30 years to get it. Now I keep bees in my off time, and I don't want to have to lock all my tools and other belongings up to keep them, so no trespassing on my land. Is that okay with you?

Re:Overreactions

[baboo_jackal]

in fact isn't that common to have a firearm on/with you even if you work on a ranch/farm.

Anecdotal evidence isn't. I don't think it's possible for you to make the claim that you know what's generally common practice among *all* ranchers and farmers based on your individual experience.

When it comes down to how an individual chooses to run/defend his or her ranch, it's highly dependent on the *local* population of livestock predators (which might also include things that attack humans).

not everyone is carrying a six shooter or rifle/shotgun on them all the time. Only when they see a specific use for it.

I would argue that, as a rancher, it would be *prudent* to carry firearms (responsibly, of course) at all times. It's always better to have a gun, and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it.

They were lucky.

[davmoo]

I live in a rural area in the Midwest. If a horde of people I didn't know suddenly descended on my property, and I don't see some badges or blue and red lights accompanying them, those people would see a gun too...and mine wouldn't be in a rack.

Re:Culture --weird

[mortonda]

Yes and the purpose of a gun is to kill.

Not necessarily. The purpose of a gun may also be to say "I have the power the protect myself, my property, and my rights". Sometimes killing happens in the process.

2nd amendment and all that.

Re:Overreactions

[Dramacrat]

Ah, the same Swedish social welfare nanny state that will collapse in a few years? At least, I hope. The irony is that I would gladly let strangers camp on my property, if they asked. But anybody randomly setting up shop on my land is going to get shot. Twice. And I'm not even American. Sheesh.

Re:The reaction scares me (and not the local's)

[mortonda]

If these people were scared by the mere presence of a few guns, this seriously worries me about the future of the 2nd amendment

Yes, it is worrisome. I can't believe how much anti gun rhetoric I hear from people who don't really know anything about it. Truth is, until you actually fire a gun, you don't really understand them. I was kinda nervous around guns, until I had fired a few.

I'm all for gun control: I've worked on my gun handling skills to make sure that I know what to do with a gun. Things like, never point a gun where you wouldn't want it to go off, always safe the gun (and unchamber it) when not in use, and always inspect the gun to verify its condition and state when you pick it up. Even when a law enforcement friend hands me a gun, I will still check the safety, clip and chamber, because I am responsible for it.

I think if more people would do this sort of thing, they wouldn't find guns to be intimidating. The mere presence of a gun does not intimidate me, and a gun in the presence of someone who is obviously competent is a welcome sight. I only get nervous around noobs that don't have the experience in gun control.

Re:The reaction scares me (and not the local's)

[Stiletto]

We are also fighting to ensure the safety of our own populace and country. Notice, not a friggin thing has happened on our soil since taking the initiative to bring the war to their area.

Lisa: Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers.

Homer: Uh-huh, and how does it work?

Lisa: It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock.

Homer: I see.

Lisa: But you don't see any tigers around, do you?

Homer: Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock.

Re:Overreactions

[Omestes]

These are people from the bay area.

I don't mean to bash all of them, but a couple that I know have an unnatural fear of guns, hell I'm dating one. She grew up in an affluent family in SF, and until she moved to AZ, has never really seen a real gun, much less handled one.

The first time we went up north, I threw on my "snake, javelena, mountain lion, pissed off bull" gun (a 22 revolver with alternating snake snake shot), and she was scared shitless. I asked her if she wanted to shoot it, but she couldn't even touch it, so much was her dread. She didn't even want me to wear it, until I pointed to the paw prints the size of my fist.

Re:Overreactions

[Omestes]

Trespassers will be SHOT, Survivors will be SHOT AGAIN.

Extreme much? Trespassers will be asked to remove themselves (depending on their number, and if they're causing damage), and if they resist shot (or have the authorities called). This is how things work in a SANE society.

If your land isn't posted at each entry, you really should be a decent human and operate under the assumption that they don't know that they are trespassing. And if is, you should be a decent person and ask nicely before killing people.

Generally killing people should be the last resort. If your not a sociopath.

Re:Culture

[couchslug]

"Being visibly armed is a threat."

No, "pointing and brandishing" arms is a threat.

The distinction matters.
Arms in a gun rack or shouldered on a sling are not a threat, though their potential should be taken into account.

Re:Culture --weird

[catmistake]

huh. So... during heated domestic arguments, does a gun owner actually have less of a chance to shoot his wife in the heat of the moment than the non-gun owner? Like guns all you want, but guns cause far more violent gun crimes than they prevent them (you count up your hero stories, and for each I'll find you 10 gun murders.)

Oh boy

[jav1231]

It sounds like typical media scare. Think of all of the stories you see in the paper or on the news about "man with a gun." It's as if the mere presence of a gun denotes wrong doing.

Re:Predation of livestock

[khallow]

One of the weakest arguments to ever show its face in slashdot. Six deaths over 130 years? In comparison, black widow spiders have killed [wikipedia.org] at least 63 people in the US between 1950 and 1990 (according to wikipedia). You do the math.

Re:Overreactions

[cayenne8]

"yah, well my excuse is, that I'm not a native english speaker, so I'm not sure of the correct terms, sorry about that. Anyhow, I'm talking of a place with cows and horses and some smaller animals. But still, no guns in sight. You people watch too much Bonanza or some such :-P"

Well, depends maybe on what part of the country you are in...and how rural.

Down in the south...TX, LA, AR, MS, etc....it is very common for people to have gun racks in their trucks, with loaded rifles. Heck, many drive that way even if not on a farm. In many jurisdictions, it is perfectly legal to carry a rifle with you in plain site, you only get in trouble for having a concealed weapon without a carry concealed license in many places.

I've never had a truck (I've only had 2 seaters), but, I've ridden many times with people with gunracks in their trucks, and never though a thing about it. Heck..we've gone out at nights and gone out hunting or target shooting for fun...

Anyway, gun laws and views on carrying weapons vary greatly from state to state, locale to locale in the US. I gotta say, from my experience...LA is the most heavily armed state I've ever lived in. I've seen people with closets fully of rifles...with a pile of pistols in the center...many people carry at least one gun in the car at all times...etc.

I'd certainly never entertain the idea of breaking into anyone's home..that's for sure.

Re:Not quite "the real world"

[daliman]

The mods are crazy, that should be +5 Insightful, not funny...

On another note, I grew up on a farm outside America. We had guns. Locked up, inside the house, where they could be retrieved if absolutely required. Anyone who drives around with guns on them all the time, on a farm or elsewhere, has a few screws loose.

Re:Overreactions

[commodoresloat]

Jesus, where in Phoenix do you live? Home invasion is a serious enough problem for every citizen to keep at least 3 guns nearby? Are you sure you didn't mean to say Baghdad?

Re:Overreactions

[couchslug]

"Because thiefs and other criminals will obviously never get onto your land when it is illegal. It's only after you allow them onto your land they will steal stuff and kill you..."

What drivel. Being able to have detected trespassers removed by law enforcement, and to defend your land allows you to deter the bad folks from acting. The land is yours, not theirs, so it makes no sense to allow them on it in the first place. For example, under a "right to roam", all a thief need do is come onto isolated land and wait for the opportunity to steal fuel or equipment (tractors and harvesters are very expensive). Farmers may own thousands of acres, and have many acres un-farmed but in use for other purposes like wildlife conservation or left fallow between farming cycles. The "active use" test is absurd.

Why should property rights and personal security on ones own ground be thrown away because someone else might like to wander about what isn't theirs?

"And nevermind the fact that this right to roam is generally about the part of your land where you don't live (hard to kill you there) and which you don't actively use (hard to steal anything there)."

That still allows access, and potential liability if the trespasser, er, "roamer" gets hurt climbing a fence or falls into a ditch. BTW, why should I give anyone who wants it the opportunity to build a still or meth lab on my unused property? They have plenty of room for that on public lands! :)

The right to "roam" may work nicely in the Shire among friendly Hobbit-like people, but the US and much of the world isn't the fucking Shire.

My land is bought, paid for, not a group asset, and anyone I don't invite there is unwelcome. Those wanting land are welcome to amount to something and buy it as I did. Otherwise, they are cordially invited to stay out of what _I_ own. The idea that property rights make for un-freedom is literally Communist nonsense and not true in nations that have land reform and a free market. Anyone wanting land in the US is free to buy it at market prices, and there is AMPLE cheap land to be had.

The argument for "roaming" really boils down to people wanting things from other people they haven't paid for.

Re:Overreactions

[rohan972]

On farm I grew up on, my dad rarely carried a gun, my uncle fairly often. For shooting pests, crows, foxes etc which can be quite devastating to lambs. (My uncle spend more time working the sheep than my dad, who did more work with crops). But while not many in our area carried guns all the time, it wouldn't have rated a mention to see someone with a gun at any particular time. On one place I worked, I was frequently reminded by the owner to take my rifle with me during work, but he had more problems with feral animals than we did at home. I'd say it was common to carry a gun, but certainly common to not be carrying a gun too.

Re:Overreactions

[Cromac]

not many people are out to rustle your cattle anymore.

Spoken like a true city bred liberal who doesn't have cattle to rustle and so doesn't see that cattle rustling IS a real, serious, problem even today.

Re:Overreactions

[totally bogus dude]

I thought 911 was for reporting emergencies, i.e. where there is an imminent risk of injury or loss of life. While erratic/dangerous driving probably qualifies, a disabled vehicle or people walking along the highway don't seem to pose any immediate risk. It might be better to add the number(s) of local police stations to your phone so you can report non-emergency situations without tying up emergency operators.

Re:Culture --weird

[protolith]

"I dunno why people always think a fear of firearms is irrational"

Because it is irrational to fear guns. If your fear is based on ignorance then it is a rational fear, and can be corrected.
Your post attempts to rationalize your fear with the injection of a form of understanding. If you Fear an inanimate object simply based on its designed or perceived designed purpose then it is an irrational fear.

Hoplophobia along with Agoraphobia, Arachnophobia, and any of the other host of phobias are all defined as irrational fears.

If in fact your fear is based to a degree on ignorance (unfamiliarity with the workings of firearms), I suggest you spend some time taking lessons at a local shooting range.

As for the guns are designed to kill thing.... Well yes, most guns are deigned to, or are based off of guns designed to kill. But the truth about that is, some things need killing. Animals don't sacrifice themselves to be food on a table. If its made of meat it was killed to be put on your plate. If its made of red meat, then it was killed with a gun (firearm or captive bolt) to become food. As for killing people, "couple that with the general fact that people are idiots" you summed up why some people need killing, because some idiots will take your life for their personal or political gain.

Re:Overreactions

[Firethorn]

There was a nice take on that Rifle vs Pistol issue in Fistful of Dollars (Sergio Leone, 1967... starring Clint Eastwood). It didn't turn out well for the guy with the rifle, but that was how the script was written, not necessarily how life goes.

Movies, even ones starring Clint, aren't normally very good representations on firearm usage and effectiveness in the real world.

A handgun is, well, handier than a rifle. On the other hand a rifle is more accurate at pretty much any range and more powerful to boot. Doesn't mean that a smart and skilled person with a handgun can't take out somebody with a rifle - but it takes much more skill and luck. To put it in gaming turns - the person with the handgun rolls 1D6, the rifleman 1D20. High roll wins.

why aren't the farmers/ranchers aware of the fact that they don't need to be carrying those guns everywhere they go

Don't need to, but why bother emptying the truck out when they don't think they'd need it? Then they have to remember to put it back! Or maybe they're running to town from the fields to get something, not stopping at home. Etc...

It wasn't too long ago that I had to use my firearm when I didn't expect to. It was to put down a car struck deer - multiple broken legs. It was the quickest, most humane method I had available. The deer was thrashing too much for a knife to be a clean kill.

Re:Overreactions

[DerekLyons]

This land-owner was overreacting to the presence of a large group of people on the public road close to their property, not to trespassers.

Ah yes, the Slashdotter demographic speaks from their basement the standards all people must live by.
 
Meanwhile, out here in the real world, here are the problems I've seen while living in rural areas or have been seen close friends who live in rural areas; meth cookers, partiers leaving behind trash, partiers damaging property, vandalism to buildings and equipment, motorbikes and quads damaging property and interfering with livestock, livestock killed, livestock stolen, cars and trucks stolen, marijuana being raised along the edges of fields and in woods, etc. etc. etc...
 
There's a reason, multiple reasons, why the land owner reacted the way he did.

Re:They were lucky.

[Atario]

And how many of them do you think you could kill before they tackled you and made you eat your own shot/bullets? Or before they whipped out their own weapons and blasted every limb from your torso?

What? I'm being too extreme? But I thought you were sure these people were a huge, immediate danger to you. Else why would you be brandishing life-threatening devices at them?

Oh, to prove what a Big Tough Guy(tm) you are. Gotcha.

Poof of logic

[sjbe]

...lions are dangerous. If you get near one, they are way more dangerous than spiders.

Which by your own arguments you won't get near one so they aren't dangerous. You should be disappearing in a poof of logic about right now.

BTW I enjoyed all the made up statistics. I enjoy some good fiction.

Re:Overreactions

[random coward]

Wait...what? You americans licence citizens to carry a concealed firearm? Oh my dog, now that explains plenty...

Like why the mugging rate in America is far far lower than in London for example.

Re:Overreactions

[Muad'Dave]

The real issue in the US, beyond that of the landowner's wishes, is that of liability. I forbid trespassing solely based on the fear of litigation by the trespasser. Those necking teens can sue the landowner if one of them twists an ankle.