Batman Discussion 967
I won't be reading it because I haven't been able to go yet, but I suspect a goodly number of you have already partaken in the latest Batman flick that taunts me. Mocks me. And knows that I don't have time today or probably any time this week (unless there is a movie theater near the OSCON venue?) Anyway -- here is the official place to talk about the biggest geek movie out until the X-Files comes out next week, and I have similar frustrations.
One Word (Score:3, Informative)
Re:One Word (Score:3, Informative)
I second that.
Best "Knight" movie Heath Ledger was in! He really did the Joker perfect.
Lloyd Center (Score:3, Informative)
Obviously Cmdr T won't be reading this, but the Lloyd Center cinemas are very close to the OSCON venue - two stops on the MAX, or about half a mile if he feels like walking.
http://www.fandango.com/regallloydmall8cinema_aaapq/theaterpage [fandango.com]
Re:Can Oscar's be given posthumously? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:SPOILER - Really, it is... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Great Movie! (Score:3, Informative)
>However...I don't really get the reasoning Joker used to convert Dent into Two-Face?
I thought the Joker explained it pretty well, although the Bugs Bunny-esque nurse outfit was stealing the scene. The Joker believes everyone is like him deep inside, and he believes the facade of civilization is paper-thin, waiting for the right someone to tear it down. His corruption of Dent is a demonstration of how he's right - all it took was personal leverage followed by tragedy to push Gotham's crusading White Knight to break society's rules and then abandon them altogether.
Major Plotholes ... Spoiler Alert (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I hate... (Score:3, Informative)
It also had the double effect of pushing Dent twords jokers plans for him.
Re:Great Movie! (Score:2, Informative)
That wasn't Scarecrow Dent was interrogating. It was one of Joker's minions.
Re:Boats (Score:2, Informative)
I hated the ferry scene. First, it was completely contrived and forced. I could not believe the Joker could have set that up even after suspending all reason. Second, I think the civilians would have blown up the prisoner boat in real life given that scenario. Even given another poster's reference to the "Prisoner's Dilemma." The Wikipedia article on that says 40% of participants cooperated. So, that 60% that didn't, and there were a lot of people on those ferries. Someone would have convinced the others to blow up the prisoners. That makes the morality lesson all the more annoying.
It would have made the movie that much greater and that much more intensely dark if Batman had to deal with the fact that one group blew up another group. Obviously, it would not have meant that the Joker was right about everyone being like him since the whole scenario was stacked to force people to act a certain way. But, it would have been interesting to see Batman struggle with it and reconcile it for himself.
Of course, that would have made the movie way too long, so it would have been better cut it out, make Dark Knight 30 minutes shorter, and use it in another sequel.
Also, it would have been an interesting way to explore how people make strong assumptions. The people on the civilian ferry kept saying: "They had their chance. They chose to rape and murder. Why should they survive?" It's the same kind of assumptions some people make about the detainees in Guantanamo. "They're in Guantanamo, they must be terrorists!"
Re:I hate... (Score:3, Informative)
In comics there's a saying -- and maybe it extends to comic-book movies, too: No one ever stays dead except for Bucky, Jason Todd, and Uncle Ben.
(And even that might no longer hold true. I think I remember someone saying that they brought back Bucky a couple of years ago.)
Re:What no discussion of the Bambi movie? (Score:3, Informative)
Not seeing this movie would be a supreme mistake. Also, it lacks product placement as far as I can remember. . . Go and watch it, you will see. Don't bring your kid.
Re:I hate... (Score:2, Informative)
Or maybe I just don't like it when a character's actor changes between movies (same with Dumbledore in Harry Potter, I liked the first guy better; he has a much better voice).
You do realize that the second Dumbledore actor, Michael Gambon [imdb.com] was only brought in because the first, Richard Harris [imdb.com] died, right?
Re:Can Oscar's be given posthumously? (Score:5, Informative)
The Comics Code Authority came about when Dr. Frederic Wertham performed studies and offered his expert analysist that comic books were the cause of juvenile crime and behaviorial issues. Think Jack Thompson of the comic book world.
The CCA set an insane amount of rules that had to be met for comics to be displayed in retailers (before the launch of the direct-dealer comic book stores we have today). Good always had to win. No implications of significant advancement in relationships (effectively bringing Clark Kent and Lois Lane's relationship to a standstill). References to the occult, zombies, etc, were unacceptable.
The CCA went so far as to censor Archie comics. There was a panel in which Betty and Veronic make sand representations of themselves on the beach. The panel had to be redone to include lines to indicate the sand-models were wearing bathing suits.
So, of course, the Joker could not be an insane lunatic on killing sprees with the CCA looming overhead. It wasn't that he wasn't a psychopath, he wasn't allowed to be shown to be a psychopath.
With the direct market, the CCA's grip on the industry was loosened. Some writers have taken to writing their own vision of the Joker, which will also cause variations in behavior. You can find one of my favorite variations in "Batman: The Killing Joke".
Re:Can Oscar's be given posthumously? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I hate... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I hate... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Biggest geek movie until X-Files? (Score:3, Informative)
That is a backronym. The word Geek predates the "computer/technology" thing by quite a bit.
See:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/0/G0070000.html [bartleby.com]
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=geek [etymonline.com]
Re:Can Oscar's be given posthumously? (Score:1, Informative)
Agreed. Over the decades, the Batman comics moved from dark to campy to dark again.
Agreed. This timeline [current.com] discusses it somewhat humorously.
Re:Good movie (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Can Oscar's be given posthumously? (Score:2, Informative)
Go see the movie.
Re:Why didn't they just kill the lawyer? (Score:3, Informative)
As far as the guy revealing Batman, he knows Batman has already probably saved his life (remember Wayne's "accident"). Also he knows if he tells, The Joker will kill the lawyer himself. I found it believable that the guy wouldn't tell.
Re:Can Oscar's be given posthumously? (Score:3, Informative)
The Killing Joke portrays the Joker as a normal joe who is trying to get ahead and ends up in a vat of chemicals and becomes the insane criminal everyone knows.
Kind of. The storyline in the killing joke was admittedly, by the Joker himself, not his true origin. He said that he prefers his past to be multiple choice, and that he himself doesn't quite remember exactly what happened to him.
Similarly, we don't witness the origin of the Joker in this movie, and that's a good thing. The Joker also tells two conflicting stories of how he got his scars, which fits with what the joker said in the killing joke.
From an interview with the writer/director on NPR, it was 100% intentional that you don't learn anything about the origins of the Joker in the movie. He said it makes the Joker a more menacing and interesting character. They balanced that with the comic storyline of providing all kinds of possibilities of his origin very well in the movie.
Re:Major Plotholes ... Spoiler Alert (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Good movie (Score:2, Informative)
Re:any chance of an unrated dvd release ? (Score:3, Informative)
.
In Psycho you are seeing much less than you think you are. I believe Hitch toyed with the idea of tinting the blood red in the shower scene and thought better of it.
Handing the package with a time bomb to a kid builds suspense and terror. The explosion and torn bodies are just theatrical effects.
Re:Can Oscar's be given posthumously? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Farewell sweet Karma (Score:3, Informative)
Re:any chance of an unrated dvd release ? (Score:2, Informative)
Personally, I don't understand how they got away with a PG-13 rating. Two Face's face burning off and the CG work was borderline, but I could have shrugged that off. However, Heath was a little bit too sick and twisted for anything below an R rating. His delivery of 'how I got these scars', and 'why I like to use a knife', was too believable to be comfortable as a PG-13 movie.
I saw at least one person leave with their kid. There was a fair amount of other traffic at the door, but I wasn't keeping track of how many were coming back from the bathroom and how many just left. I think they caught a lot of people off guard.
Re:The Bat-Bike (Score:3, Informative)
From some of the view pages:
Bat Bike in use [yimg.com]
View from the back [photobucket.com]
Video preview [orlandosentinel.com]
This picture was also thought to be the Bat-Bike
The new bat-bike? [obsessedwithfilm.com]
Some super-big pictures: [aintitcool.com]
Front [aintitcool.com]
Back [aintitcool.com]
A light review
CHRISTIAN BALE was banned from riding Batman's hi-tech motorbike on the set of The Dark Knight - because the producers considered it too dangerous.
The actor said: "Embarrassingly, I didn't get to ride it. There are other motorbikes in the film that I got to burn about on, but not the Batpod - it was deemed too dangerous; they needed me in one piece to finish the damn movie."
Bale says a stunt rider took his place in scenes involving the Batpod in case the actor came off it and injured himself. The machine - described as a steamroller combined with a motorbike and atomic missile - is the caped crusader's latest gadget.
He said the machine was so hard to handle that only one stuntman on the set could ride it without falling off. But he is determined to master the Batpod before the film has its world premiere in New York on July 14.
"I've asked the producers if I can have a go on it before the premiere, so that I really can ride it before I get asked any more of these questions - you can't be Batman and not have been on the bloody Bat bike!"
The Dark Knight is released in the US on July 18 and in the UK on July 25.
Re:One Word (Score:2, Informative)
While I agree it was a good movie, and I'm going to get shot all to hell for this comment, I really didn't like this portrayal of The Joker. That and the whole movie screaming from one action scene to another with little to no character interaction just left it feeling shallow and not fulfilling, although slightly more than mildly amusing.
Re:One Word (Score:3, Informative)
Wow. It's true.
Better start burning lol.
http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1573617/20071106/story.jhtml [mtv.com]
MTV: What do you think of another actor, Heath Ledger, playing the Joker in next summer's "The Dark Knight"?
Nicholson: Let me be the way I'm not in interviews. I'm furious. I'm furious. [He laughs.] They never asked me about a sequel with the Joker. I know how to do that! Nobody ever asked me.
MTV: It was never brought up?
Nicholson: No. It's like, in any area, you can't believe the reasons things do or don't happen. Not asking me how to do the sequel is that kind of thing. Maybe it's not a mistake. Maybe it was the right thing, but to be candid, I'm furious.
Re:Good movie (Score:2, Informative)