Woman Claims Ubuntu Kept Her From Online Classes 1654
stonedcat writes "A Wisconsin woman has claimed that Dell computers and Ubuntu have kept her from going back to school via online classes. She says she has called Dell to request Windows instead however was talked out of it. Her current claim is that she was unaware that she couldn't install her Verizon online disk to access the Internet, nor could she use Microsoft Word to type up her papers."
The follow-up is much more interesting... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Informative)
Too bad the woman did not look for answers but simply blamed Dell instead out of ignorance.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Expected (Score:3, Informative)
You can still submit things in Doc using OO.o. Or do you never bother to check these things? And, frankly, I would rather have someone who knows how to think, "What would this be called on this system?" than "Here's what it's called on this old system. OH SHIT! I CAN'T FIND IT ON THE NEW ONE! HELP!!"
Semantics Problem, Actually (Score:2, Informative)
I see this as mostly a semantics problem. The prof, or person who wrote the syllabus meant something general but said something specific. They likely wrote that students require MS Office for the course(s). What they mean by this is that the students need a word processor and a spreadsheet, possibly power point.
Also it needs to be said that it's against ethical standards for a school to require products of a particular brand name, as long as competing products are sufficient.
I must also add that if you are a student, you could consider ignoring standards set by your prof or dept, if they don't make sense. Many of those standards were written more than ten years ago. Not only that, you are in a competitive setting and you are less competitive if you are confining yourself, using the same generic tools as everyone else in your class.
Of course if MSFT products are BETTER somehow than what you can get, then it would be advised to use them.
I would always opt for students to use what suits them best, rather than what is trendy or required.
The other side of the coin is that Dell wants to save money on MSFT license fees, so they push free OS to keep their costs down. It's not really putting the customer first if the customer feels really cheated by it.
In this particular case, however, I have no idea why Open Office wouldn't suffice, or why the school wouldn't help the student get connected to the internet just reflects poorly on their customer service standards, IMHO.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This is a real problem (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Until the point at Windows doesn't "just work" (Score:4, Informative)
The computer did do what she wanted - it would connect to the internet and process Word documents. She was just too stupid to know how to plug in an ethernet cable or double click on a .doc
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Informative)
You've obviously never used Verizon DSL. Their system requires a login/password which is generated via their Windows-only software when you're setting things up. Once you have that you no longer need Windows to connect to the internet, but you do need to that once to get the system & modem set up.
Seriously. No joke.
I presume you can set that stuff up over the phone if you have a Mac or something, but that's probably non-obvious for someone who accidentally orders a Linux laptop.
And, also, Firefox cannot necessarily handle all of her "browsing needs". It's not always Firefox's fault, but there's a reason I have IE Tab set up for a handful of sites and it's not because I'm a web developer.
Re:When can my mom use Linux? (Score:4, Informative)
You don't have to compile software anymore (at least everything I normally use comes from the repositories or in pre-compiled binaries). Know how to use a
Configuration files disappear? What idiocy is this? So you want a huge cluttered registry system like Windows has that you have to setup all over again if you have to re-install the system? Something that will destroy your system if it get's even slightly messed up? I much prefer the "per-application / stored in your home folder" configuration because that's WAY easier to migrate from one system to another and in case I do have to reinstall the system I can get my settings running in no time. And even if one app breaks the configuration I can still solely remove that ONE SINGLE configuration file w/o compromising my entire system.
When was the last time you tried a distro like Ubuntu? You can't possibly be talking about 8.10 because that doesn't need any command line, compiling, terminal stuff to run at all. And gimme a fucking break "consistent modern UI"? What like Vista? Where half of the features won't work if your graphics card has been manufactured on a Tuesday and the interface is the very same as in Win95 only with a glossy skin? Go Fuck off. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. GNOME isn't uglier than Windows XP or Vista in the "classic" mode and Compiz beats the hell out of Aero any time of the day. What is that? You can't run Compiz without taking care of special hardware and software requirements? Now guess what: Same goes for anything below Ultimate and Aero. No offense but the "modern UI" argument is for pussies and Apple users. Why does Miss "Fancy Miss MacOnline-Classes
Is Linux for Geeks and Devs: Sure, why not? All the development tools are free. So why not use them. Why should I buy the same tools for a Windows platform?
Is it for everyone? If you explain the system to them the first time they use it (just like you did when they started with Windows but you did that sooo often you don't even remember).
Is it for Geeks? What today actually ISN'T for Geeks? And btw. since when is that still a term anyone uses derogatorily? I thought Geeks where the guys that make all the stuff happen whereas the Jocks and Assholes just brag about their trophies and beat up Geeks to get shit done.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Informative)
I did every report and presentation in OpenOffice and saved MS Word and Power Point compatible versions of my files when it came time to submit my work. The instructors never knew the difference and I got the highest mark in the class.
Personally, I've been trying out various Linux distros for the past 10 years. I never really found any to be a suitable replacement for Windows on any of my computers until I got my hands on Hardy. My first Hardy install onto a Windows pre-loaded Dell laptop went as smoothly and as quickly as I've ever had an OS install (excepting maybe MSDOS but that hardly counts). The only hardware that didn't work immediately after the install was the wireless card, but ndiswrapper and Wifi-radar quickly solved that.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Informative)
Another lying Micro$hill who avoids the obvious. OOo can read and save in .doc format.
Ignoring the mean-spirited zealotness of this post, I will point out that saving OOo documents in MS Office format does not properly conserve all document formatting. I have found this to be true time and time again for word processing documents that have real formatting and inserted tables and graphics.
Re:This is pretty awesome *for* linux. (Score:4, Informative)
Verizon, presumably in an effort to make things "easier", doesn't talk about what needs to happen(PPPoE configuration) but instead just tells you to use the CD. Easy enough to figure out, though. After all, almost anybody who has a wireless router and Verizon DSL or FIOS is already using a Linux machine with Verizon, even if they don't know it yet.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Expected (Score:2, Informative)
Fuck you, I'm eating.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Informative)
Run gnome-ppp and enter the following in respective fields:
Username: phone_num@vzw3g.com
Password: vzw
Phone #: #777
Device:
Type: USB
Click 'Connect'
That's all there is to it.
There is no need for having Windows installed for her to get on teh intarwebs and OO.org suite is a reasonable alternative to Office.
(Off to rtfa, now)
Re:Expected (Score:3, Informative)
192.168.0.1:80
Re:Expected (Score:3, Informative)
contrary to the article this doesn't void your dell guarantee.
It is not unheard of that Dell will attempt to tell you that loading a different operating system voids your warranty.
We spent a few weeks back in October getting my brother-in-law's laptop repaired under warranty, and it took a letter to the Better Business Bureau to convince Dell that installing Ubuntu on a laptop that originally came with Windows did not void the warranty. (yes, the letter actually had an effect...Dell became extremely cooperative after that)
I should add that I'm not apologizing for the woman, but, given that she knows as little as she does, not doing something that the manufacturer tells you will void your warranty is probably a good decision.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Expected (Score:3, Informative)
The real news is at the end of the article, past the sensationalism:
It's really more a matter of awareness. We know that you don't need a Windows-only installation disk (sic) to access the Internet, nor do you need MS Office to save MS Office compatible files (if they even need those instead of say, a PDF), but most people don't.
Re:Expected (Score:1, Informative)
The parent was talking about basic problem-solving, not computer know-how. Figuring out new skills (getting a network to connect) based on existing, simpler skills (navigating a windows-based operating system).
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Informative)
And, also, Firefox cannot necessarily handle all of her "browsing needs". It's not always Firefox's fault, but there's a reason I have IE Tab set up for a handful of sites and it's not because I'm a web developer.
I wonder how those Mac and Linux people even get around the web these days... Or does Safari and Konqueror fill the gap that IE leaves?
For consumer-space internet, I haven't run into an IE-only website since... well, Maplestory used to be IE only...
Unless you're running some archaic banking software that uses ActiveX (or something like it), there's simply no reason to claim that.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Informative)
Vista's highly annoying level of UAC was actually designed in an annoying manner on purpose, to try to get users to complain to the developers.
However, "Publisher: Microsoft Corporation" means... yeah, it backfired. :P
I wouldn't see it that way. My understanding is that MS has acknowledged the fact that (100-epsilon)% of computers out there in the wild run as admin and tried to limit this behaviour. And also that most of them don't even have a password to begin with. Meh.
But they did it the wrong way, imho. Instead of forcing a regular, non priviledged user to be created and only ask for admin privileges for some operations (as Ubuntu does), they left things as is and flooded Joe User with warnings - so many warnings that most users either answer yes every time or, if they are skilled enough, shun them.
No wonder that Vista turns out to be as little secure as its predecessors were. Ubuntu should have taught them a lesson, but... No. Go figure. And that's without even mentioning the fact that 99+% of viruses/trojans are ineffective if you run as a normal user. This is all the more a pity that Windows (from NT on) _does_ have very fine-grained security mechanisms.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Informative)
Keyboarding Introduction [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10106101
Learn computer keyboarding (alphabetic and numeric keypad), develop speed and accuracy.
Credits: 1
Internet Introduction [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10103146
Introduction to email software: send, receive, reply to, and forward messages; attach files; use signature blocks; and organize mail in folders. Overview of Internet features: web browsers and search engines, bookmarks and shortcuts, hypertext links and URL addresses, digital camera use, and on-line web resources. Prerequisite: competency in Windows (10103124, 10103134, or 10103135).
Credits: 1
Keyboard Skillbuilding [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10106139
Identify keyboarding weaknesses through diagnostic tests and analyses. Refine keyboarding technique, increase speed and improve accuracy through individualized corrective practice. Prerequisite: 10106101 or touch keyboarding experience.
Credits: 1
Windows XP [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10103135
Introduces the Windows XP operating system: work with common elements (windows, menus, toolbars, panes, dialog boxes and Help), use accessory programs, manage files/folders using My Computer and Explorer, customize using the Control Panel and maintain the computer.
Credits: 1
Windows Vista [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10103124
This course introduces the Windows Vista operating system: work with common elements (windows, ribbons, dialog boxes, and Help), use accessory programs, manage file/folders, customize settings and maintain the computer.
Credits: 1
Word - Beginning [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10103137
Introduction to Microsoft's word processing software. Create, edit, save, format and print basic documents; cut/copy/paste and find/replace text; apply font styles and effects; add bullets and numbering; work with tabs and indents; align text; apply borders and shading; use wizards and templates to produce documents; insert headers/footers; apply different formatting to document sections; create columns; insert clip art. Create and format tables, modify rows and columns, perform calculations, sort table data, customize tables. Prerequisite: competency in Windows or Windows course (10-103-124, 10-103-134 or 10-103-135).
Credits: 1
We had classes in college that we labeled as "Mickey Mouse" - you'd sign up for one if you needed an easy credit. This, on the other hand, makes Mickey Mouse look like Einstein.
Re:The school is a joke... (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, judge a school entirely by its online courses. Let's look at some of their real classes:
Advanced Bioinformatics
Catalog #10007181
This capstone course in Bioinformatics provides the student with experience in the design and implementation of basic programming concepts applied to bioinformatics problems. Using the skills gained in previous certificate courses, the student designs and completes an independent project using the Perl programming language, Oracle database, and internet technology in the UNIX operating system. Prerequisite: grade of C or better in all certificate courses and concurrent enrollment in 10-007-180, 10-152-111, 10-152-120, 10-152-125, 10-152-151, and completion of or concurrent enrollment in 10-154-190.
Credits: 4
and
Clinical Ophthalmic Procedures
Catalog #31516327
This course prepares the technician to assist the doctor in advanced office techniques in the area of ultrasound, in-office surgical procedures, case history and scribing. Students will also study various systemic diseases and their affect on the eye. The performance of various skills is emphasized in the laboratory sessions. Prerequisites: 31-516-315, 31-516-301, 31-516-305, 31-509-303Prerequisites: Ophthalmic Pre-Testing 31516301; Ocular Anatomy 31516315; Basic Optical Concepts 31516305 and Body Structure 300-level or higher.
Credits: 2
and
Network Security Design
Catalog #10150193
This course affords the network security specialist the opportunity to conduct a vulnerability analysis upon a network in order to practice or refine the attack methodologies with the hacker tools and techniques to which the student was exposed during the various program courses. The student must demonstrate the ability to design, plan and execute a vulnerability analysis against an organization network. In this class, students learn the skills necessary for the Certified Information System Security Professional (CISSP) certification. Prerequisite: 10-150-164 and 10-150-196
Credits: 3
and
X-Ray Microanalysis
Catalog #10636141
Students perform elemental analysis with energy dispersive X-ray systems on both TEM and SEMs. The use of matrix corrections, qualitative and quantitative computer analysis routine will constitute a major part of this course. Prerequisite: grade of C or better in both 10-636-131 and 10-636-132, or consent of the instructor.
Credits: 4
The probem is something else entirely.... (Score:2, Informative)
The problem here is being highly misappropriated by the media coverage and even much of slashdot.
The real issue here is simple...people who do not know anything about computers should not be enrolled in ONLINE classes at their local university.
In fact, of the 3 universities I've worked at, all of them had a large amount of disclaimers essentially stating just that. "You will be responsible for your own technical issues, the university cannot provide for you in case of problems, please make sure that your computer is not only reliable, but that you understand how to configure your own internet, and computer maintenance before enrolling in online classes...blah blah blah"
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind from reading TFA that the woman here would have had just as many problems using Windows and Word, and then would be harassing some poor kid at a computer lab into doing all of her formatting, emailing, and homework submissions for her anyway.
We have not yet developed a stupid-user-friendly interface that is sufficient to handle the sort of person who is likely to struggle to find the power button...and the truth is, we shouldn't have to.
There is nothing wrong with requiring someone to know how to use their own tools in order to partake in a lesson.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Re-read your own post - either a plant, or a mo (Score:2, Informative)
I noticed that a number of people mentioned that this person went to technical college.
The term "technical college" can mean two different things in the U.S. - it can refer to a university with strong engineering offerings, or it can refer to a type of community college that is strictly focused on teaching job related skills at a level roughly equivalent to that of upperclassmen at a leading high school.
Generally, admission criteria for the latter are quite low, the idea being to give these people with minimal skills enough skills to become productive in jobs such as auto mechanic, etc.
I suspect this person went to this second type of "technical college".
I love a small ISP (Score:5, Informative)
I'm with mesa networks and they are awesome.
Had a tech out diagnosing some problem and he was quite happy with a root prompt on my laptop to test things.
Saw my router and immediately asked if i'd gone with DD-WRT or something else.
I pay a little more than comcast, but that's a small price to pay for not dealing with comcast.
Couple Observations (Score:4, Informative)
None of the issues she had appear to be due to Ubuntu. They appear to be in this order:
1) she didn't get what she wanted -- didn't know what she wanted and maybe randomly picked, but what she says she wanted was a bread and butter PC.
2) She didn't know how to get her DSL active without the CD.
3) She didn't know how to create .doc files without Word.
First things first. A couple of questions:
1) What if the CD for the DSL activation didn't work? Would she still have skipped 2 semesters (which is almost a whole year of school).
2) Did she realize that it would have cost her money to purchase Office? If she didn't know that would she also have dropped out?
The point behind these questions is that it seems far too questionable that any one or both of those issues would have resulted in someone deciding not to enroll for not one semester of college but two. If something that simple was happening just about anything could have set her off and caused her to decide not to enroll.
There are computer labs, there are neighbors and friends, there are computer shops to help configure and repair--what's more important going to anyone of those or wasting a year of your life by waiting for a solution to any of those two given problems? So, she didn't waste the time, but she did delay her education for a year. And why not more than 2 semesters as it seems no one has given her a solution yet.
And for someone whom it seems is unable to accept anything but the status quo she seems pretty well posed in the picture, as if she's using it.
On to the Verison DSL. She should have called Verison and had them activate her modem or send a technician out to do it, or get friend's laptop to activate the modem.
The obvious problem with that is that Verision wants to take ownership of her computer by branding it and by tracking her via software they install. I generally uninstall that stuff when I see it and I inform them that it is optional software completely unnecessary. So, she could have borrowed a computer or had a friend come over and activate the modem but she didn't know it because Verison wasn't performing full disclosure as to what that software does and whether it is necessary once the modem is active.
She may not have been aware that Office costs a pretty penny, unless of course she knew this and was after the college's student & home version of Office (for non-commercial use only). And she didn't know that using crossover office or even Wine she could have it up and running.
She probably wasn't aware that she also could use Open Office, which many pointed out here. And yes, there are many formatting issues and yes, instructors do grade you down for mis-spellings and poor formatting--they only give you so much credit for the actual content of what you write.
But nonetheless if they were using the proper filters she could have used ODT as her file format and it would have been up to them to ensure that they used a product that could read it and format it properly, as ODT is an ISO standard. In this sense she would have been right and they would have had the burden to accept industry standard file formats that are accepted by a world-wide standards organization. Which is what the schools should be doing as they are governmentally funded.
Foremost in all this the issue had nothing to do with Ubuntu nor its usability. Her installation of the Verison CD could have failed under Windows, easily. There are many problems that crop up when installing drivers and software under windows and if that was sufficient to stop her education under Ubuntu it should have been sufficient to stop her education under Windows--so this is a no-go for blaming Ubuntu.
Her college stated they'd take whatever format she chose to submit her assignments in showing that at least they had some modicum of technical knowledge so Open Office documents submitted in ODT format should have sufficed. The end result is that she let her educati
Re:Exactly (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Expected (Score:0, Informative)
Re:Dell did us a public service (Score:3, Informative)
and this is where your analogy fails because there was nothing wrong with her computer. You're going under the general assumption that something is wrong or fails to complete the tasks she needs it to do.
By reading the article you'll see that she is happily using her new ubuntu machine now she knows how it works.
Re:dell and modems (Score:5, Informative)
The Comcast CD that came with my Internet self-install officially supported Windows and OSX, so I could install it on my laptop at least -- or so I thought until I tried. It also specifically required Internet Explorer 5 for Mac, a product not available even through the MS website anymore.
Of course, the whole situation was moot. Those install CD-ROMs aren't required to use the modem. I just called Comcast and told them to activate my modem, and I was online in minutes.
Verizon DSL is similarly not limited to Windows. The article actually says that Verizon supports Ubuntu, and that they are going to send over tech support.
This really shouldn't have made news anywhere, it basically amounts to "Woman has trouble setting up her Internet connection, complains to the press before receiving support from her ISP."
Re:Exactly (Score:2, Informative)
flash in Linux closely resembles that of video drivers about five years ago
Um No. Not only has flash progessed in leaps and bounds on the Linux front, Linux is ahead supporting 64 bit Flash. Windows is playing catch-up here not Linux http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html [adobe.com]
it's easier than that at dell (Score:2, Informative)
You are multiply wrong.
It's easy to find linux on the dell website
go to dell.com
choose 'for home' and go down to 'laptops'
look on the left side.
"Ubuntu Linux"
now- go to dell.com
choose 'for home' and go down to desktops
look on the left side
Ubuntu Linux &
FreeDOS
go to dell.com
go to desktops-buisness-small business
see on the left?
FreeDOS and Linux
64-BIT OS
=
BUT NONE IF IT MATTERS- CAUSE IT'S CLEAR IN THE FUCKING SUMMARY THAT SHE CALLED! NOT ORDERED ONLINE!
RTFS if not the FA next time
(me, laughing cause the captcha is impudent)