Woman Claims Ubuntu Kept Her From Online Classes 1654
stonedcat writes "A Wisconsin woman has claimed that Dell computers and Ubuntu have kept her from going back to school via online classes. She says she has called Dell to request Windows instead however was talked out of it. Her current claim is that she was unaware that she couldn't install her Verizon online disk to access the Internet, nor could she use Microsoft Word to type up her papers."
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I was going to go into a tirade about how stupid the girl is, but the reality is that she called to explain the mixup and Dell somehow convinced her to keep Ubuntu. Dell, if someone calls and says they got a Ubuntu computer by mistake, just have them ship it back. It isn't worth it.
Humor? Entertainment? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, this story did cause some criticism, which resulted in a followup story [wkowtv.com] (even calling it "Ubunto" once - nice). So more angry (or informative) letters from Linux-advocates aren't going to set the record straight [xkcd.com] at this point.
But it does raise a larger question about the adoption of Linux. How can the perception that Microsoft Windows and its trappings are effectively mandatory be overcome? Her computer can handle all of her needs: email, web browsing via Firefox, Microsoft Office-compatible documents via OpenOffice.org, and no need to "install" any Windows-only "Verizon High Speed Internet CD" to use Verizon DSL.
But since many Linux-advocates presumably want to see things like Ubuntu go mainstream, the answer can't be "this woman is a moron and the TV station is worse for covering it". Her problems, even if they seem ridiculous, were real enough to her. So how do you counter this kind of problem? (Some might say decent journalism could have helped here, but that's part and parcel of the perception problem.)
This is pretty awesome *for* linux. (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it is major egg on Verizon's face.
The larger the linux market segment gets, the less windows benefits from it's network effect.
As far as the word processor goes- she just needs a clue about Openoffice or some of the other fine WP's available.
Hopefully she isn't going into a technical degree area with this little knowledge of computers at that age.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
No problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Verizon says it will dispatch a technician to try to assist her accessing the internet without using the Windows-only installation disk.
MATC also says it promises to accept any of Schubert's papers or class documents using whatever software she has installed.
So what's the fucking problem ?!?
In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
RTFM? (Score:4, Insightful)
If she can't RTFM, how is she going to read the texts for her classes?
Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
So the woman is suing the company because she lacks the mental capacity to properly use their product?
Re:Expected (Score:2, Insightful)
So what just happened here? (Score:2, Insightful)
A customer ordered a product, received something quite different which was not only not what she wanted but not something which she could use, called the vendor to complain and was told to just keep it "because it's better", instead of trying to return it. As a result, she couldn't get any of her work done as it required the original product which she had actually requested.
Why would I be surprised to find that she was dealing with Dell? Or that some smug bastard here has called it 'funny'?
Exactly (Score:4, Insightful)
This connects with what I just said [slashdot.org] below you.
Sure, we can mock it, but there are real issues here:
- She doesn't know that she doesn't need to install any "Verizon High Speed Internet CD" in order for her Verizon DSL to function.
- She doesn't know that OpenOffice.org can handle her needs for "Microsoft Word" just fine
- She probably wouldn't know that Firefox can handle all of her browsing needs even where another OS is specified (under most circumstances)
So how can we bridge those kinds of gaps?
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:3, Insightful)
This woman didn't want to try to use it, she got stuck with it on accident and then failed to make use of it. A few google searches by her would have revealed at least how to use Word or Open Office. And has it been shown that she really has a verizon card?- or does she just think she needs the magic cd that came with her cable modem?
Re:Until the point at Windows doesn't "just work" (Score:5, Insightful)
If the computer doesn't do what she needs it to do in the first place, why does better security matter? She could put a rock on the desk, call it a computer and be just as productive and free from computer viruses.
Re:This is pretty awesome *for* linux. (Score:1, Insightful)
When can my mom use Linux? (Score:1, Insightful)
I've been saying this is Linux's biggest issue for years. I keep on asking when my mom can use Linux herself and keep getting fobbed off...
When will terminal windows, compiling your own software, and configuration files disappear and in place get a consistent modern UI?
Yes, Linux has been doing better in this regard but everyone seems to be going in a completely different direction with a lot of the supporters and developers scuffing at the idea of making Linux easier for the common man.
The real question is: Is Linux for developers and geeks, or is it for everyone? And that is something the Linux community needs to answer before it can move forward.
Re:Expected (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
This woman is beyond stupid, though. She dropped out of school because she couldn't figure out how to make her computer work. And then, apparently, her solution to this life crisis wasn't to ask someone knowledgeable about computers - it was to call the local news!
So let me get this straight... (Score:5, Insightful)
Kidding aside, Dell should have just allowed her to return it for a Windows model if that's what she wanted. She clearly did not have the technical prowess to figure out how to configure her internet access without the walkthrough software.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
Her lack of computer finesse isn't the funny thing here for me. I saw the newscast on this. She had two problems: She didn't have MS Office, and her Verizon internet disc tried to run it's startup.exe. She just has to save her papers in .doc format, and have a Verizon tech crew come out and fix her internet. It took the news anchorman two (2) phone calls to fix this for her.. so what attempt is there to mock? She probably just slacked off for her classes and used Dell as as excuse.
Re:This is a real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
I have had this battle on multiple occasions with my online classes trying to explain that I don't use Windows or MS Office. The difference is that I am an experienced user and I actually understand why the college is incorrect. They say it "requires Office XYZ" but what they mean is "you need to be able to create and edit Word compatible documents". Most users are going to take the statement "requires Office XYZ" literally because they don't understand the alternatives, and the people saying "requires Office XYZ" are probably even less likely to understand that there are even alternatives available.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
No, this is the sort of thing which makes "Idiocracy" [wikipedia.org] seem to be an insightful and predictive documentary...
Re:No problem (Score:5, Insightful)
So what's the fucking problem ?!?
The problem is that this girl couldn't figure out how to call Verizon and the school herself. It sounds like Dell worked her over as well, but dropping out of school before calling their help desk is just crazy.
College isn't for everyone.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:1, Insightful)
"A few google searches" ?
She couldn't connect !
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is pretty awesome *for* linux. (Score:3, Insightful)
I wish I had mod points. (+1) Insightful here
Two parts to the complain, one is on Verizon (do they support Mac and not Linux???). Which isn't Linux or even Ubuntu's fault. In fact, I suspect that if Verizon gave the specs for their device to Linux community, there would be a driver and management software available within a couple of days. No development costs to Verizon at all, and I'm sure they would get all sorts of "attaboys" from the Linux community.
Second part is Word isn't needed to type papers. In fact, if I were Professor at a big U, I wouldn't accept .doc files. Print it, or submit in an open standard. Hell, I'd probably require them to be .txt just so people would have to focus on content, and not on making it "pretty".
Its not Ubuntu's fault (Score:2, Insightful)
While DELL should have fixed the problem, don't blame Ubuntu. Verizon purposely designs its phones to be unusable with Linux. Verizon has a track record of locking its phones. For example, the Blackberry's built in GPS is inaccessible so that Verizon can charge to use its triangulation based navigation system.
As for the classes, the developers of the online software have an obligation to make it work on as many systems as possible. While Linux developers must continue to work towards compatibility with other systems, the companies behind them must work with us as well.
Finally, before anyone goes calling this woman idiotic for this compliant, we should make an offer to teach her about the technology and how to use non-Linux software through applications such as Wine.
Warranty (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the story she somehow accidentally ordered the laptop with Ubuntu. I am not sure how she managed that because I have to *search* Dell's site to find their Linux offerings, but I digress and that is irrelevant anyway.
What is relevant is that she received a laptop configured in a manner she was unfamiliar with. She should have just returned the laptop if it was sent this way in error. My point is, she didn't attempt to use it (Ubuntu) in any sort of meaningful way. She *assumed* the laptop had Windows installed. She is familiar with Windows. She attempted running a disk that requires Windows and then looked for the MS Office icons and couldn't find them and then she gave up. Again, if what she ordered was a Windows machine, the blame falls squarely on Dell and Dell should make it right. If she did order the laptop with Ubuntu and ignored all of the warnings about how this order does not have Windows and Windows software will not run on Linux etc.... then the blame is fully hers.
This has nothing to do with Windows vs. Linux as she never made a conscious choice to use Linux. She also didn't make much effort in using Ubuntu. In fact, if she has to miss *two* semesters of school because of this, it screams to me that she was looking for a reason to not go to school and this is the perfect excuse in her mind.
This is likely to be MS astroturfing/fake news (Score:5, Insightful)
I just posted a witty reply to this story. Reading TFA again it occured to me that this is most likely MS fake news and/or astroturfing. It requires quite a few clicks to actually customize a Laptop at Dell and have it come with Ubuntu rather than some MS Windows variant.
I'd say this might very well be fake news.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows requires just as much tinkering as Linux, just in different ways.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
If the Dell support rep could have just given her two or three helpful tips, she could have probably been fine. OpenOffice is a perfect replacement for Word. I don't know about her Verizon situation, but I'm sure there is a workaround for that.
The problem is, as I've been flamed for before, Linux is still nowhere near the point where a non-techie will consider adopting it. Although it's much better than it was even a few years ago, it's still not an idiot-friendly OS where things 'just work', compared to what people are used to.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
The shame is that the education should be concentrating on how to achieve results via theory, not on a specific tool. Teaching, not Training.
You then apply the theory to the tool you are using, rather than know you have to hit the icon that looks like paper with a + on it, and a squiggle, on the third toolbar.
This is doubly more relevant because of Office 2007 which screwed up the user interface big time.
So what if the document is submitted in OpenOffice Word format? What matters is that the person applied the tool features correctly. If it isn't a course related to using office software, then it matters even less.
She's not college material. (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I understand her point from the inconvenience, but in the larger sense of the word, I thought college was partially a test in determination and overcoming adversity. Not everything goes right when in school and those who make it through it overcome it, and those who do not, don't.
I know a guy who is getting his degree despite missing a finger and the use of an eye compliments of a tour in Iraq, all while trying to support a wife and son. I would think -he- has some problems to overcome.
woman has a computer that's not what she expects? I would suggest that, if she has a paper due, get on the internet, find out what she has, learn quickly, and get something out the door. She might, well, learn something, and I thought that was what college was for!
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
It's her fault partially for not asking the right questions beforehand, but it's Dell's fault for not making sure she understood what she was getting and not supporting her after the fact.
Valid yet Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This is a real problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
maybe we just can't expect everyone to finish college, some people are just not bright. serioulsy, do you want this person to be a doctor or manage your finances if she can't be bothered to click on the "network" icon in the top right corner of the screen? what kind of problem solving skills does she have.
IMHO, knowing enough about computers to set up a network (even with OS guidance) is not strongly correlated with medical or financial advisory skills.
For all I care, the doctor/financial advisor can be a luddite, using pen and paper for all his/her records, as long as they do the job well.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
And how much do you want to bet that the school complains about students constantly submitting things in .docx format and not being able to read it, because, "it's not the MS Word DOCs I've seen before"?
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
My wife is taking an online teacher certification course right now. She uses a Mac as her primary computer. The online coursework is completely unaccessible without Internet Explorer. We've tried Safari, Chrome, and of course Firefox to no avail. You have to have IE. All coursework must be submitted as Excel or Word. This is non-negotiable. We know this because we tried since she uses OpenOffice normally.
No, saving as an MS Office document does NOT preserve OOo's document formatting like it should.
Consequently, she has to use my gaming Windows machine for her school work.
The reality of it all is that for some things you truly do need Windows because that is what the company you are working with expect. Calling and whining to the company that runs the online certification program does absolutely nothing, and all students are expected to comply with this because that is how the program works.
We can blame the woman in this story for not pulling out the man pages, searching google extensively, working things on command-line, etc... or we can accept that normal, average people should not have to do these things for a mature operating system. They expect things to work. She is not wrong for this.
It's a plant (Score:5, Insightful)
1) You can't "accidentally" find an Ubuntu Dell.
2) Dell support would NEVER say "you don't want windows, Ubuntu works better for you".
3) She took FIVE MONTHS to complain
It's a fake.
Re:So let me get this straight... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is a real problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Why people nowadays accept people using a computer without having the slightest clue what is going on is just as ridiculous... it just happens to be one that everyone accepts and even empathizes with them. That in itself is sad.
FUD (Score:4, Insightful)
I am a little disappointed this was given the greenlight as it is simply FUD and/or a Microsoft viral marketing ad.
The woman claims she had to drop the semester because she couldn't get on the Internet, which has to be a complete cop out. Since as a student she could just very cheaply buy the Windows OS she needed or just use the computers in the computer lab at her school.
Car metaphor! (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sick of this Linux attitude (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sick of the linux communities' attitude that she should have known linux was "internet capable" right out of the box; or that she could have opened up a document in OpenOffice. I think the community forgets that for the majority of internet users, they started out by getting a CD in the mail (AOL/Compuserve/Prodigy/Earthlink/Mindspring whatever) and that launched an application which had an integrated browser/email/news/stocks client. So she treated her internet access like a black box; big deal. Most people treat their cars like black boxes as well.
Someone handed her a Microsoft Word document; why should we blame her if she looked on her computer and *GASP* didn't see Microsoft Word. Is it possible that just maybe, he classes said as a requirement you needed MSWord for the class materials? Maybe there are spreadsheets that are handed out that have tons of formulas and macros in them; is the instructor going to worry about OO macro compatibility. No, and neither should she.
Dell should be ashamed for not allowing her computer to be returned, but the linux community should be ashamed as well. For assuming that all computer users are part IT Staff. Maybe we should expect the average /. user to be able to sit down at a 3270 terminal and configure the IOCDS or perform a datamigration with DFSMS on my zSeries. I mean, it's just a computer right, it must run rsync....
Just like with cars, some people are mechanics, some people just change oil and filters and others just drive the car. It's a shame the linux community can't understand the same thing about computers.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
My 8 year old uses it just fine.
The woman is an airhead. Airheads regularly fail to critically examine what they're doing, then blame others for their lack of success. It's a personality flaw, and nothing anyone does is going to provide anything more than a very temporary fix. So, attempting to solve the problems of people like this woman by changing the operating system are doomed to failure.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Um, no. Nothing here suggests that she ordered a Windows machine and got Ubuntu instead. She either didn't pay close enough attention, or did not understand enough about computers to know the difference. That's not a swindle. That's user error.
Re:Expected (Score:1, Insightful)
This is the sort of thing that is going to happen when you give a normal person *nix. Sadly, in this case, Windows "just works."
Bzzzzt! Wrong!
If windows "just works" she wouldn't have needed the verizon internet install cd to get online.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
Not in my experience (yet).
Windows is still easier.
However, linux has made a lot of progress in my eyes in the last 24 months.
Ubuntu is having a huge effect in this area. There is finally a stable team doing polishing.
Linux needed polishing. It needed to look prettier (Red Hat did some nice stuff in this area too as I recall).
Now- what *should* have happened was that she turned on her computer and it said, "Do you want to set up the internet?"
When she clicked "yes", it should have showed pictures about plugging in the wires (2 hours work to set up), with a little script (maybe 16 hours?) that checks for a router and things like that. It asks her about her internet provider's DNS service but if she does not know it, then it points her at one of the free open dns services (being polite about it to her).
It tests the connection and then asks about other common things a new user might want to do (like word processing) and suggests the major candidates- installing the one she selects from a list.
This is probably less than a month's work to write. But it hasn't been done yet. It needs to be done. There needs to be an extremely friendly interview/installation process for linux to take it to the next level.
It can start off with "Are you new to Linux?" as a text prompt and take it from there. Expert users would go down a different path.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's a plant (Score:4, Insightful)
You have never dealt with Dell Before have you.
Dell does make shipping mistakes giving the wrong computer to the wrong person.
Or when ordering you could go I don't want Vista, what else would work with my PC. (Some new PCs do not run XP well, but runs Linux OK)
Dell may not say that but the guy at the other end of the line might, If he is Linux Zealot and cant bare to watch someone switch back, he personally may pressure her to stay with Linux.
5 Months is quite possible if it really isn't that high on your priority. Call tech support they give you a vague response. Mess with it a little once a week. Get fed up and call again after a month or so. Some people do try and hate calling tech support especially if they were rude to them.
Nothing seems that far out of reality.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet here is a normal person, trying to use it, and finding it frustrating and causing her problems, and people mock her attempt.
"Normal" is a very flexible definition depending on whoever sets the boundaries between normal and stupid. In my opinion a very stupid woman spoke to a very stupid Dell rep who wasn't able to tell her how to start OpenOffice (for fucks sake Applications/Office/Writer -how hard is that?) and relied on very stupid Verizon that can't produce an Ubuntu Linux installer for their silly software package.
... section 2 would have said "Set up without disc like this:"
... they want to be so stupid that they simply won't be able to. Anyone should be able to read, it's your responsibility as owner of the fucking machine to understand at least a bit of how it works. It's this "I don't get the first page in the book so I stop reading" attitude. If you don't WANT to do gain that knowledge you will have these kinds of silly idiot problems all the way. So "I am stupid" and "I don't want to know" are two different things and significant ones indeed. Sometimes a book starts making sense only after you've read it even without knowing what the first couple pages meant.
I had a similar problem with my sister-in-law. Gave them a Ubuntu machine and she kept trying to install some ISPs network setup disc. Eventually I went over to their house and got the network running with half a dozen clicks by reading the (incredibly stupid) manual section that was about half a page long with pictures. She didn't even bother to read beyond section 1. Install software
THAT is the problem, not that people can't use Linux
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is pretty awesome *for* linux. (Score:3, Insightful)
Some will read the article as "Linux prevented girl from using online classes".
The verizon marketing department knows others will read the article as "Verizon prevented girl from using online classes."
What if she had a mac (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
What I gathered from the post was that he wasn't exactly sure what the problem was with verizon, but the poster knows enough about computers and DSL to assumed (correctly) that there is a way to connect to the internet with Verizon and with Ubuntu.
America's Best & Brightest (Score:5, Insightful)
But seriously..
This may read like flamebait, but Shuttleworth needs to invest in a magazine or newsletter. There's still a lot of misconception as to what Linux or Ubuntu is/isn't, and can/can't provide.
This printed matter needs to accompany Ubuntu, no matter what media or hardware it ships on, and should serve as a FAQ and HowTo.
I submit:
---
Q: Can I use the 'Drivers and Manual' CD that came with my new 'X'?
A: No.
Q: Can I buy 'PC' games at WalMart that work with Ubuntu without special tricks?
A: No.
Q: Is Ubuntu a 'Generic' version of Windows?
A: No.
Q: Is Ubuntu a platform supported by Verizon, Rogers, AT&T, Qwest, HP, IBM, Toshiba, Apple, Samsung, Sony, Brother, or Canon?
A: No.
Q: Will Ubuntu save me money, trouble, or headaches?
A: Yes, but only if you're agile-minded and not willing to pirate Windows.
Re:Expected (Score:2, Insightful)
I see this all the time. (Score:2, Insightful)
I work with an office full of people just like this. It's called learned helplessness & it pisses me off to no end. You don't want to think about a problem, you either want it to work right off the bat, have someone else fix it for you or throw your hands up & say "I can't do it".
Re:Expected (Score:2, Insightful)
So that's when you use the drop down and save as "Microsoft Word 97/2000/XP (.doc)"
The point of the post you are replying to is to illustrate that the students are in fact ignorant of this necessity, mostly because the profs are ignorant to the fact that they must inform them of the difference. In short, it's a way to sell the new "improved" version.
Re:This is pretty awesome *for* linux. (Score:3, Insightful)
We might not be car experts but we know it takes gas to run. We might not be TV experts, but we know that the picture comes in over the wires behind it.
But most people I deal with are willingly and even gleefully ignorant of computers, and will actively go out of their way to NOT learn even basic things about how it works, like keeping an eye on disk space.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:3, Insightful)
I need a new computer, this one is full... (Score:5, Insightful)
I was just remembering yesterday how I used to hear my clients say that they needed new computers because their old ones were full. This woman is in this category.
There are people out there who have no idea how computers work and they are prey to all sorts of disingenuous marketing and out and out disinformation.
Instead of running a news story on this, they would have done her more good by just telling her she was ignorant and pointing her in the right direction to get information so she can stop being a victim. The skills she would gain in learning about the computer and sorting the BS from the truth might even translate to other aspects of her life, like car and house buying, or job hunting.
Re:This is a real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
The Student Computer Help staff assist MATC students with questions about:
MATC student email accounts
the Microsoft Office suite,
installing the Wisconsin Integrated Software Catalog products,
Blackboard and various other curriculum-based software packages at MATC.
As I said, there is no excuse. The school has allocated resources to deal with exactly what her problem was, but she couldn't be bothered to lift a finger to educate herself.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
You are underestimating her.
Be the girl airhead, she'd likely have a boyfriend who could have helped her to configure the lappy as she wished.
My first impression is that the girl wanted to skip classes and was just looking for excuse. And she found.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
My guess is, that's exactly what the Dell rep did when he "talked her into" keeping her Ubuntu box.
Seems likely that she then forgot, or didn't know where to click to launch OpenOffice, or something like that.
She's used to Windows, and didn't expect a learning curve, however small, as things are not arranged the way she's used to.
From what I've hear of Verizon's setup software, anyone even marginally technically literate will find it easier to manually set up their connection than try to rely on it.
The hard part about Linux is the initial setup. Especially finding, installing, and configuring drivers to work with all of your various hardware. Since Dell does all that part before shipping the boxes,[1] yeah, it really does "just work" by the time the consumer gets it.
---
(1) I'm assuming they do. If they don't, they're idiots. But I'm not really going so far out on a limb as to suggest that a major corporation couldn't possibly be staffed largely by idiots.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
The popularity of OSX works well here. This is a large customer base that spends a lot on software and services that won't use windows apps.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
In newer Ubuntu distributions (presumably what is pre-installed on the Dell is pretty new) compiling ANYTHING is unnecessary and using Wine is automatic. An average user should never even need to touch the terminal. A stock first-time install of Ubuntu provided her with everything she actually needed.
As many-many others have pointed out- this is a case of a person not willing to take responsibility for themselves and actually LEARN something, who instead has decided to blame others for her problems.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
And then, apparently, her solution [...] was to call the local news!
Which leads me to think that she is on the Microsoft paybook. Her story perfectly fits in the MS war against Linux and open source, and it needs as much media coverage as possible. Remember, spread the FUD.
Re:Exactly (Score:3, Insightful)
You've obviously never used Verizon DSL. Their system requires a login/password which is generated via their Windows-only software when you're setting things up. Once you have that you no longer need Windows to connect to the internet, but you do need to that once to get the system & modem set up.
Does anyone have more information about this? I don't live in Verizon territory, so I don't have first-hand experience. Presumably the username/password in question is for PPPOE, but I would expect them to simply tell you what it is, then have you type that into their Windows-only config program, not the other way around.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
But there is no reason for a normal person to find some ad-hoc work around to the software not working on an OS they have no special love for.
Response the first: So would that Verizon CD have worked if she'd put it in a Mac? Really, this is an open question to anyone who's dealt with it, I don't know.
Response the second: Guess what everybody? You can't put Playstation games in a Wii! Holy shit!
In most people's minds, Office = MS. They aren't going to go looking for random alternatives just because they are out there. That isn't the way people work.
Yeah, Applications > Office > Word Processor is just so random. I mean, who would expect it? And that interface! Why, it's just so radically different from Office 2000, of course we can't expect this poor person to possibly understand it! This is obviously the geeks' fault.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
But there is no reason for a normal person to find some ad-hoc work around to the software not working on an OS they have no special love for.
We're not talking about an "ad-hoc" workaround, we're talking about the normal way to do things. Verizon provides an easier solution in the form of Windows software, but from the comments I'm seeing here, that "easier" solution really isn't.
They aren't going to go looking for random alternatives just because they are out there.
Sorry, but there's a difference between Googling for something to download, and having the tiniest ounce of curiosity required even for a five year old to find Applications -> Office -> Word Processor.
The only reason to ever look for an alternative is when it DOESN'T work.
And in this case Office isn't installed. Rather than enlist a five year old to help her out, she dropped out of college. In fact, from TFA:
Verizon says it will dispatch a technician to try to assist her accessing the internet without using the Windows-only installation disk.
MATC also says it promises to accept any of Schubert's papers or class documents using whatever software she has installed.
Re:Expected (Score:1, Insightful)
Because she wants to use her computer as the tool it's advertised to be, and found herself thrown into an OS feud she didn't know, or care, about?
I think you need to adjust your criteria for diagnosing stupidity..
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, no factual disagreement on the basic point, that a service that requires a particular OS sucks. But I wonder how many people are grasping the real issue here...
You, and many others, when faced with a reason why this situation didn't work for a common user, focus on reasons why those issues shouldn't be issues.
Well, that's why 2009 won't be the year of Linux on the desktop. "Linux to conquer the world" is much more ambitious a goal than "Linux to conquer a made-up world in which only problems that 'should' exist do exist".
Some people go as far as to attack the user for not knowing enough, or for not handling the situation the way the poster thinks he/she would've handled it even if they didn't know what they know. Well, again, "Linux for the common user" is far more ambitious than "Linux for the common user where common user is defined to be like me".
Linux will be hindered in the consumer market as long as the typical approach is to think that the market should change to accept Linux, and not the other way around. And that's fine if that's what Linux wants to be -- but just don't act confused about why other OS's still dominate the desktop.
Re:Exactly (Score:3, Insightful)
If all us tech folks weren't afraid of even the most basic attempt at bridging the gap from technical work to actual human interaction, then there wouldn't be such a big deal about forcing people to make even the most basic comments in their code. Most of us hate to do that type of work, and the biggest problem with FOSS is that people get to volunteer for their tasks; so, the things companies have to force out of their developers and have to hire dedicated people to get done are severely underserved. The truely sad thing for adoption is the community wants to supplant Microsoft's dominance but not take actually have to deal with Microsoft's typical users.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know about her Verizon situation, but I'm sure there is a workaround for that
From what I gathered from the article, the problem was that Verizon sends a "setup CD" with their DSL modem, which contains (when I had it) a program written in MS Java 1.1 that does nothing more than configure Windows to use DHCP. Verizon claims that you need to run this program to get the DSL setup, but it's completely unnecessary on Windows or Linux.
This woman's problem was that she was told she needed to have things that she didn't need to have. She was told she had to run the CD when she didn't, she was told she needed MS Word, when all she needed was to read+write .doc files.
Ultimately she gave up on an online education because she couldn't figure out her computer, which makes me thing that she wasn't all that interested in getting it all to work in the first place.
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Insightful)
I have to call you, and many, many others on this statement. Sure, OpenOffice does handle standard word documents without too much trouble. But time and again I have encountered heavily customised word documents with tick boxes, mixed colum formatting, etc, etc, which Openoffice simply cannot display with fidelity. And by fidelity, I mean make sure the danm funding form fits on one page and not bleed it over onto the second.
Sure, you may think these documents are obscure. Trouble is they aren't. They are typically, ancient Word 97 produced affairs, devised by a "self educated" whiz somewhere in the accounting department with too much time on their hands . Universities are saturated with these documents, as is any small or medium sized company that has ever had such a "whiz" in their employ. They're sort of like one of those custom Access programs written by a non-programmer that slowly grow and mutate. It suffices to say that Open Office, while it does not choke, simply cannot cope under the strain of displaying them.
The essential problem here is that people feel they NEED to use MS Word or an equivalent program for absolutely everything. I have been sent emails containing nothing but an MS Word attachment in which is contained... the "letter" I was being sent. It's crazy. If I am ever in a position where I am accepting or grading papers, or summaries, or memos, or whatever, each and every single submission will be required to be a simple TXT file. They're perfectly adequate for just about everything except diagrams, and if they need to use those they can be submitted as attachments.
One word. Flash. This is not a settled issue on any Linux system to this day. Sure it can work, but not on every system. The situtation with flash in Linux closely resembles that of video drivers about five years ago, when it was still necessary in many instances to edit xfree86 conf files or the like. With the ever growing domination of youtube, a browser without guaranteed out of the box flash is seriously deficient. Not even Ubuntu has this.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re-read your own post - either a plant, or a moron (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering that this woman ostensibly had to cancel two semesters worth of enrollment, this sounds like it should be a good deal higher on her priority list than what you suggest.
Which leaves two likely scenarios -- either it's a fake, or she's a certifiable moron. I certainly hope it's a fake -- if not, I truly fear for the future of humanity. This would be one individual that would not have been smart enough to survive back in the day. If she really is this dumb (I don't mean dumb about Linux, I mean dumb enough to cancel out of two semesters of a *technical* college rather than bother to find someone with half a clue to help her -- this would apply to *any* OS, or *any* technical snafu of any sort), such extra stupidity wandering around the gene pool can't be a good thing.
Cheers,
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not a conspiracy hound, but maybe you are right... how does one "accidentally" order Ubuntu? It's not an option in their customizer... you have to somehow navigate through to their open source page, which then links you to their open source computers. And the picture shows an Inspiron, which to get to $1100, you literally have to max out... also seems fishy. I mean, if she really knows so little about computers, how did she know to max out everything? And if she was going to drop $1100 on a notebook, why didn't she click on the $1000 XPS instead of the $500 Inspiron?
Probably still not a conspiracy, though.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
But I can understand in a way. When you are helping someone with a computer, you might be able to use it intuitively, but even another expert describing some version of software you are not intimately familiar with, you are going to be completely lost in your ability to help them.
Sure, there are some things that could make certain features more obvious in how to use, but personally in the way I use the computer today, that would just amount to bloat. I am a bit saddened that so much work is going into dumb GUIs to enable people to do things in an over simplified way that already worked just fine if you took a sec to look at the documentation for the config file, or where CL switches have just become check boxes. BLEH! But I will admit that came after quite a bit of poking around and making a deliberate effort to understand why things were designed the way they were. It is why Linux was always referred to (10 years ago) as the system by computer experts for computer experts. If it is by experts for experts, isn't it probably pretty good? It does "just work", but it does work differently.
But hey, deliberate learning for the sake of it isn't for everyone.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
She doesn't have a broadband wireless card, she has DSL. This is different. In Verizon's efforts to save money by allowing the users to install the CPE (Customer Premises Equipment) rather than sending out techs to set it up, they added a "wizard on CD" to walk the customer through setting it up.
So the paper flier that you find when you open your box of gear, says, "Please insert the CD into your computer and follow the on-screen instructions." So, in an effort to save money, VZ has alienated customers who don't know they don't need the CD.
Besides TFA shows that the news channel contacted Verizon and they're sending a tech out to set it up for her.
So, rather than talking to Verizon about the problem, or her school, she just bitched an moaned until the local news station took a negative Linux is bad spin on it. The school, (after talking with the reporter) has agreed to accept her work in whatever format she can provide.
Not to mention, if she had insisted with DELL that she wanted to return the laptop for one with windows, she could have done so.
So in conclusion, I believe that this is a simple case of laziness and should be chalked up to "provide-more-documentation-in-the-users-face".
Lets make a little video that runs on the first boot that shows the user how to use the system as it comes pre-configured? If they want to watch it, great, if not, they can close it. But perhaps it should live on their desktop so they can watch it again if they "accidentally" closed it prematurely.
Re:I need a new computer, this one is full... (Score:5, Insightful)
There are people out there who have no idea how computers work and they are prey to all sorts of disingenuous marketing and out and out disinformation.
The price of ignorance, whether of technical or financial matters, has never been higher in our society and it is growing larger all of the time. My advice to these people would be to turn off American Idle and crack a few books or Google some basic knowledge instead of whining when the smarter and more educated people take all of their money.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
Universities need to be more 'open' (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of the primary schools in the Springfield area have Macs in computer labs and in the classrooms. But every class she has taken so far has been focused on Windows XP (sometimes Vista) with Microsoft Office 2007 for Windows specifically.
We have Macs primarily in our household, and use OpenOffice 3. However a great number of the PowerPoint 2007 files (pptx) would not display correctly in OpenOffice, so she was at a great disadvantage. We ended up having to get a copy of Office 2007 for our one old Windows XP machine.
It would be nice for education to advocate and use more open formats.
Re:Expected (Score:2, Insightful)
And that is the problem Linux faces on the desktop.
Just about every argument I've read in the last 7 years or more against Linux being ready on the Desktop has revolved around "this piece of hardware is difficult to get working" or "I need X application because that's what my work, school, etc... uses".
First off, when a hardware vendor supports Linux either by writing the driver themselves or better yet by releasing enough info to allow the community to do so it is very rarely difficult to install. In fact, being experienced in both Windows and Linux I would say for supported hardware Linux is EASIER. An example, I recently upgraded my video card. Both new and old were nVidia. Know what I had to do in the software? NOTHING!! The nVidia driver supports all nVidia cards and setup is pretty much the same. I just pulled the old one out and put the new one in. In Windows I would have had to install a driver. Not the worlds most difficult task but... one more step than in Linux.
The problem is a chicken & egg problem. Linux will not be a mainstream desktop OS w/o the hardware support, it will not get the hardware support w/o being a mainstream desktop OS.
Then the software. Using Wine might still be a little much to ask of someone whith no inherent interest in computers, just a desire to do his/her homework. (To be fair it really isn't that hard though if you have even a little interest in learning) So, only considering apps that run natively in Linux is there really that large a percentage of people whom need something which isn't available in Linux?
Take MSOffice which seems to come up again and again as a "necessity". People argue endlessly over wether or not OpenOffice is full featured in comparison to MSOffice. Personally I have no idea. I rarely use an office suite beyond writing a simple letter or maybe typing up a list in a spreadsheet. I do know that both office suites have way more features than I will ever use. For that matter, so does KOffice, AbiWord/Gnumeric and I'm sure many others. Am I really so alone in this?
I can't believe more than 10% of MSOffice users use any more of the features than that. The only other app I hear about regularly... Adobe Photoshop. How many fingers do you need to count the number of people you know whom use Photoshop? And beyond the features found in Gimp? No, your answer doesn't count if you work in a large graphics shop. Most computer users don't.
So, what if the 90% whom could switch did so? Well, that would have to tip the scales enough to get the hardware vendors to support Linux better and proprietary software released w/ Linux versions (if you really need it).
I realize that untill this happens the majority of people have no real motivation to make it happen. This isn't an issue of Linux not being ready though, it's just momentum. Still, I can't believe that one company, which has only been around for one generation will dominate computers (which increasingly dominate society) so thouroughly as Microsoft currently does forever. But what will it take?
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Fair comment, actually.
The worst thing you can do for someone is give them a new computer. I've worked in very large shops (~2500-3000 desktop deployments per year), and fielded questions from small ones as well as from individual users. People get used to the methods their computer presents them (their files are *here*, their Word program is *there*, they get on the internet *this way*). Give them a new computer, any computer, even if it's the same OS, and they're hosed.
Where are their shortcuts? How do they get to the "H:" drive? What about the TPR form (that was sitting in a message, in Outlook, that they kept opening whenever they needed a new copy). I don't think IT people can really appreciate how the secretaries, order takers and commerce students of the world function. It's not necessarily a Linux thing (though Linux raises the barrier height more than a little). After working with some of these people for a while, I have no idea how they cope when they rent a car that's different from their own, get a new toaster, or buy a new light switch: the least little difference completely flummoxes them. Stupid might be a harsh, if not an entirely inaccurate term
This woman is probably in this category: given a difference---any difference---and she promptly "shuts down" and goes into silent panic mode. The opportune question is why it took so long for her to admit to the problem. I've taken calls from managers screaming because some order-desk flunkie hasn't been able to work since her PC was replaced three weeks ago, and now she can't find her RMA form shortcut and everything's "all different" (for the record: XP to XP, Office 2003 to Office 2003, no changes save the hardware and a new profile upon login, all documents saved to Sharepoint and/or fileservers, mailbox in Exchange). Why she didn't call three weeks ago was the point I raised, and the one I never got an answer for.
There's a certain willfull stupidity in the general populace. They don't know computers, they can't know them, it's an evil black box and they'll find anything possible to complain about. They can be young, old, male, female, of any race, creed to culture: they're bound together by their raw, unadulterated pigheadedness.
At some point, the paradigm is going to have to change. I don't know how it will change: Terminal Server-like remote desktops with a Time Machine like backup strategy available through an always-on internet connection? Web desktops? Special-purpose devices in lieu of general-purpose PCs?
Smell test (Score:5, Insightful)
No, what is relevant is her story doesn't pass the smell test. It's an astroturf campaign. Go to Dell.com and TRY to recreate her story. The only Linux you can easily find is the little mini and that ain't what she bought. You have to search on linux in the search bar to find any of their other Ubuntu offerings and the page you get dropped on says this:
Assume she somehow managed to get there, which is improbable enough. If she bought after reading that she is not college material. And this ignores the fact she was buying a computer for college and didn't a) inquire as to their requirements before purchase and b) didn't get in on the discounts most colleges have on both the laptop itself and she could have probably picked up Windows+Office at a massive student discount. Colleges are full of nerds who would have been happy to help her either install Windows or learn to use Ubuntu for the price of pizza and her company. The town has a LUG for crying out loud, help was at hand.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:3, Insightful)
Two words: Public library.
There's always a form of Internet connection, usually free, even if you don't own a computer. Public libraries tend to have free computer time, though they may charge for printouts -- reasonable, if you have to take it with you, or bring the laptop into the library (it's a laptop, after all) and use it there.
For that matter, they've probably got wifi, so you bring the laptop in, Google search on one of the library computers to learn how to connect to wifi on Ubuntu (though seriously, that's not hard), then free up the library computer and use your laptop for the other searches.
Fear of Technology is the problem (Score:3, Insightful)
The woman is an airhead.
No she isn't. Simply because a person doesn't understand modern PCs doesn't mean she is an airhead. I bet she can do a thousand things you cannot.
Modern computers are complex pieces of equipment that have been stigmatized as "easily breakable" and "something you don't play with." When I was young I would get in so much trouble for playing with the computer because it was expensive and my parents were scared I would screw it up (thank god I ignored them). This leads people do attempt do to *exactly as they are told* when it comes to PCs.
The airheads are the people who don't do what they are told but SAY they did.
This means that if the school tells the girl to use MS Office, she does; insert a disk to install the internet, and she does. no questions asked. if she cant do these things, then she is screwed because she is under the perception that she shouldn't try playing & learning about the computer.
The problem isn't the girl, nor is it dell, nor is it Ubuntu. The problem is society being afraid of technology and being so scared about "screwing it up."
This is what we as nerds/geeks have to fight against. *Stop being afraid of technology people!*
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, she should take some classes on critical thinking or something...
I seriously doubt she possesses the faculty to recognise that need in herself.
No Optical Drive (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure we've all been in that situation and I know I lied and told the tech exactly what he wanted to hear....
Admittedly the factual information was correct, just not the method or screens.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
hehe.
I've never had to support thousands of desks, but I've had enough to hate supporting desktops. :)
I've actually been annoyed to the point where I 3 links on the desktop.
Firefox - labeled as "INTERNET"
Thunderbird - labeled as "EMAIL"
OpenOffice - labeled as "WORD"
If I never tell them that they're not using MSIE, Outlook, and MSWord, 99.9% of them never know the difference. You have to be very careful not to tell them though. As soon as they figure it out, they'll start crying that it doesn't work and they need the MS product installed. That's always funny after they've been using the free options for months without any problems. :)
At one place, a few people started getting pissy about needing Office 2007 Professional. I let them rant, and I didn't even get pissy back. I just told them what the current pricing was, and that they can either pick it up on their way to work in the morning, or explain to their manager why they needed something that expensive, when everyone else was using the free option. For some reason, they never came to me with their nice fresh new Office 2k7 pro CD to install for them. :)
dell and modems (Score:1, Insightful)
Why does Dell not support modems and offer a built in modem that just works with Ubuntu? (I am assuming by your post you work for them) A lot of people (millions, a not insignificant number) still use dialup and/or dialup is all they can get. It isn't an option on their website, specifically the 530n desktop model on sale now [dell.com]. This is a long solved non problem given the correct modem, and at Dell's scale and so forth, should be something cheap like a 20 buck internal card modem option. Yes I know some aftermarket modem can be made to work, but when you offer a slew of options, it seems to be a glaring omission. People who order a bundle like that will most likely want to get online when the package arrives, you are sending the customer out to some *mart to shop, it becomes an annoyance factor, bad customer experience.
Re:Exactly (Score:2, Insightful)
It's getting rarer these days, but there are still a**holes that code things that will only work in IE. And there are some regular html/javascript setups that don't work too well in "other browsers" -- vmware server for one, dell's support site for two.
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
Emacs wouldn't be hidden in the "Office" menu, but more likely in the "Programming" section. And if she would open it, she would probably realize that's not what she was looking for and close it.
I mean, if she couldn't understand that she was looking for "Word processor" then I don't think she would have passed the class in the first place. And what do you think she would have done if Vista had been installed on the laptop? Vista doesn't come with an office suite. And all the buttons are in a different place than on XP. Panic, panic, panic, let's call the news? No, she would have asked the person using the brain cell in the family to "fix" it for her.
Re:Exactly (Score:2, Insightful)
The thing is, your username and password don't exist until you run that crap to create it. Why there isn't a simple, pure HTML web page to set all this up is way beyond me.
Re:I'm sick of this Linux attitude (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Give them a new computer, any computer, even if it's the same OS, and they're hosed.
I've always suspected the problem is deeper than a mere "they don't understand computers" issue. The gory details of where a person keeps their documents and how he or she interacts with them and deals with information sources like the Web have nothing to do with IT specifically, but rather offer a more general window into the user's thought process. When you get involved with performing major maintenance on or replacing someone's computer, you're involving yourself in how they treat information generally - how they organize their files, remember important facts, and process incoming data. And most people stink at these things.
I remember one woman I used to support who made backups of her entire directory tree by making a copy of the tree under a new directory, which she'd invaariably name with her initials - let's say they're DMC to protect her identity. So almost every time I'd visit her to fix something on her computer I'd discover that she'd be nearly out of disk space (which was often the source of the problem), and the reason was that there would be a DMC folder containing a dupe of everything ... including previous backups, each in its own DMC folder, nested in a way that made me laugh, but also nearly drove me mad. I'd end up having to reconcile three or four different DMC folders in order to bring her back to a safe level of disk space.
But guess what? Her office was also a mess! Having a computer doesn't cause this sort of problem. It just involves IT people in the fallout.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
I also have a friend that wasn't too computer savy and she used to call me all the time trying to fix windows problems she had until finally she decided to buy a Dell with Ubuntu on it. What made it work for her is that she didn't try to force everything to work how she was used to things working. She knew it would be a learning curve and took the time to relearn how to use her computer.
She now NEVER calls me asking for help and frequently talks about how happy she is not having to use windows anymore and how many fewer problems she has. Ubuntu can be used by the computer illiterate. It just can't be used by stupid windows users that think if it doesn't work like windows it is broken.
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately Linux users have the tendency to call people idiots unless you approach them with "xyz OS desktop/OS can do this but blahblah Linux distro can't".
Actually, this has little to do with fortune or with linux. It's a fundamental feature of human psychology. The computer industry has long been plagued by it, of course, but it's much more general. The best approach is to just the above as the best approach.
Thus, back in the 1980s, when I first got onto unix systems and faced the problem known as "emacs vs. vi", I found the same thing. If I asked in any forum "How do you do task T with editor E?", the answer inevitably was of the form "WTF? RTFM, n00b!"
But I quickly learned that the proper approach was to phrase the question as a negative statement: "Hey guys, emacs can do T, but vi can't." This would almost always be answered by one or more explanations of exactly how to do it in vi. Interchange "emacs" and "vi" to learn about doing T in emacs. Sometimes they would insult me, too, but I learned to dig the facts out of the insults and go on my way. Yes, I learned the basic mechanics of both editors from smallish manuals. But the real learning was done by claiming that an editor couldn't do something, and waiting for the experts to show what a dummy I was.
I did eventually settle on vi, mostly because I found myself doing a lot of work on machines that were borked somehow, or were on the other end of a semi-sane network link that ate control characters, or whatever. I'd make the claim that "Emacs/vi can't be used unless you have a totally sane link to a totally sane system". The vi experts responded by explaining things like the "ex" interface and other tricks that made it usable in most cases. They also suggested learning "ed" and "sed" for extreme failure situations, but I'd already done that. OTOH, the emacs experts never answered such charges, telling me that emacs really wasn't usable on a damaged system. So I went with vi, while envying the folks that never had to deal with recovering a brain-damaged system or negotiating with comm gadgets that ate control characters.
So maybe our tactic should be to teach people to approach linux experts with the "Linux can't do T" sort of charge. Don't ask the linux experts how to do T; challenge them to teach a dummy like you that linux can do task T. This will also help greatly with getting info about Windows, of course, but that's probably not what most readers here want to do. I've also found that this tactic does wonders with getting Mac fanboys to loosen up, stop chanting "It Just Works!", and explain how to get the little things to do the job right.
Claiming that "System S can't do task T" is a general tactic that the public should know about when dealing with any tech experts. If we educate people about it, it might go a long way toward getting them on our side by making their computers do what they want.
My current favorite claim is that linux software can't print UTF-8-encoded text with stuff like Arabic or Chinese text. I suspect that this probably isn't true, because linux is widely used in Asia. But so far, it seems true, because about all I've found is assertions that it's possible, without any coherent explanation of how people (in Asia?) are doing it. (I've also collected a list of email addresses of people around the world saying that if I find a good answer, I should forward a copy to them. ;-)
(The Mac crowd also doesn't answer this charge, either, so apparently Macs can't print UTF-8 text, either. I'd be happy to be proved an idiot here ...)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
This really sounds like one of those "Joe the Plumber" stories where it could very well be motivated by some other process. After all, it's impressive that she found a system which had Ubuntu on it by default. She sounds really naive about computers, as does the article author, but yet she found her way to a $1,100 Dell laptop which came preloaded with Ubuntu and not Microsoft's Windows Vista.
What she did was really tough to do while being so naive. And let's not even get into how she claimed she needed it to have Microsoft Word but she could not have ordered that computer with Microsoft Office. I don't think Dell ships Ubuntu preloaded with WINE or even CrossOver Office. Could she really be so dumb as to decide she "needs" a computer to register for classes, not see what that registration system or the school requires and find her way through Dell's site and doesn't get a low cost laptop but a $1,100 model which has Ubuntu on it? This just sounds too convenient as in the "Joe the Plumber" situation.
She's one heck of a confused computer user or a mediocre publicity stunt by Waggener Edstrom or Microsft's current PR firm. And has her high school not taught her anything about computers? Maybe someone should research her high school to see if one child was left behind.
LoB
The REAL problem. (Score:2, Insightful)
Is not Dell, it's not Ubuntu, and it's not the stupid girl. Though she is obviously stupid. The problem is that schools should be promoting Open Office and other free programs, rather than shoveling kids money into private corporations like Microsoft.
If I was a school administrator I would mandate FOSS or at least open standards. Anything else is the opposite of education. It'd making people increasingly uneducated. To think, this poor idiot girl is probably PAYING for that "service"!
Re:Expected (Score:3, Insightful)
For two semesters? She couldn't get to her classes for a whole semester, and then ponied up the cash for another connectionless semester?
No. This was not the school's 'fault'. If I had missed two DAYS of classes, I would have raised hell all the way up and down the line until someone fixed something somewhere, or I would have found out what the problem was and fixed it myself.
The problem was that this woman was/is a complete dipshit.
Re:How Software Works (Score:2, Insightful)
So you're saying she should trade the illusion of sexual attraction for computer services? Fuck off and die.
Re:Expected (Score:2, Insightful)
Linux can be superior in every other way, but Windows will always work better than Linux *with other Windows machines*. Microsoft guarantees this with the closed nature of their networking protocols.
This means that as long as most people are using windows, it is to the short term advantage of a non-technical user to use Windows also. This has results in the current situation where most everyone uses Windows.
With almost everyone using windows software/hardware/drivers/manual producers can get away with just producing Windows versions.
As Linux Distributions become increasingly usable (ultimately I believe surpassing Windows in usability) these two factors will remain and retard Linux adoption:
* The 'lock in' effect where another Windows machine is the most compatible choice in a world populated with Windows machines
* The 'one size fits most' effect, where people producing anything related to technology can cut corners and only support windows because it's used by almost everyone.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:2, Insightful)
If you're unfamiliar with any of those topics they are very useful. You have to imagine someone who didn't grow up with computers. If you're an older adult and want to learn how to use those confusing computers that your children always talk about then these are just the sorts of classes you would take.
Or maybe you've been working in a manual labor field where computer knowledge isn't needed. Then you want to move to an office position (a questionable decision at best), you're going to need a basic understanding of computers, the internet, windows, e-mail, word, etc.
Basically, these are not four year universities, these are 2 year craft schools to help someone with a high school education get a better living.
Re:Exactly (Score:2, Insightful)
Flash is a Big Deal (Score:5, Insightful)
Too Harsh (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, I see you've worked at my office then.
The key thing to remember when working with people like this is that they have a different way of working with their computer. They might use a computer for the entirety of their working day, but they never actually learn how to use it at all.
What they do is memorise tasks that achieve specific goals. To you and me, we learn how to do an abstract process - like how email works - then adapt that process to fit to whatever we're doing at the time. If we want to do something we haven't done before, we use our standard process of looking it up on google or the help files, and follow the instructions. If we want to find and submit an RMA form, we think 'ah, that's a document. I'll edit and print that in word.' You open word, open the document, then print it to your closest printer, having learned the general process for each - or at least how to look it up. Using a different version or a different printer doesn't phase us, because we know what we're looking for, and just browse around till we find what microsoft called the action this time round.
For them though, they never learn, or want to learn the process. As you say, it's a magic black box. They don't know it's word. They barely know it's a document. What they DO know is that, when they were shown how to do it on the PC they inherited from their predecessor, when they want to process an RMA request they go to the 4th icon along, 2 down on the 'screensaver' and double click. They then go here, here and here and write this and that bit of information in. They then go to the bar at the top, click the big round button, and select the 4th option down, and click the 2nd option. And the piece of paper comes out the printer.
Then their computer breaks. They can't click the 4th icon along, 2nd down any more because the screen is all black. They ring tech support to tell them they can't process RMA forms right now, and they need to do one really urgently, and get a load of gibberish questions about what version of office they're using, and is it in their documents thingie, and can they open it on their neighbours PC or whatever, and what they WANT is someone to come out and fix it, right now, so they can send off this RMA form like usual that the manager told them to send off urgently. What they get is a new computer, and now NOTHING is where it should be. How can I work like this? where's my H: drive button gone? How can I possibly do RMA forms when it's not ANYWHERE on my screensaver?
My solution? Wait for them all to die and be replaced by their children.
yes (Score:2, Insightful)
I know that, I just thought I had a live dell guy here in the thread, so I was taking advantage of it. I was trying to help a friend who's computer croaked last week, and found her that Dell model, but she needs dialup. I told her to go to import mart and get a usb us robotics model as that should work out of the box, but it still isn't an excuse for dell to not provide dialup support as an option,.
As to ISPs being usually clueless with anything but windows, what else is new. I know mine sent me their handy "install to get on the internet" cd, and I chucked it in the trash, a few dollars waste there on their side, and I TOLD them specifically I wouldn't be needing it in the first place, but they sent it anyway. And I just frikkin hate if you ever have to call them up and the first thing out of Abu's..I mean "Mikes" mouth is "which windows are you running?". This is 2009 now, I think that people can finally be taught what an operating system is and that yes indeedy there is more than one. Car analogy..you call up any joe random car repair place and they just assume you have a belchfire car, because belchifre is the biggest. And the person who wants a repair says "what's an engine?" It's way past time people took the initiative and learned just a little bit more about this thing they are sitting in front of. It really is that ignorant anymore, no different from not knowing what an engine, transmission, tires, etc are. If people can't be bothered to learn that much, just some really basic simple stuff... no computer for them, and who cares, those are the same ones who get rooted within five minutes and become part of botnets and just drive their friends and family nuts forever "fixing" their hosed computer and having to "explain" how to navigate a simple menu.
Now, I am not saying everyone should be an advanced administrator guru, I certainly am not, but jeez loweez, these companies (computer sellers and ISPs) should have been doing more to at least try and educate people and at least try to actually be operating system neutral by now.
And it sure is a slap in the face for dang dell to have "dell recommends Microsoft vista!" on the top of the few ubuntu equipped machines web site pages they have. It's cool they started selling them, but still..get the MS ads off the linux pages. And get that stupid MS sticker off of new hardware, got a new LCD monitor for Christmas, another dang retarded bit of Microsoft advertising stuck on the thing. I just want them to go away and quit being..whatever they are, the big bully. A long time ago I didn't care one way or the other about them, but since some years now, seeing how they have done business and all the weirdness that goes on...I have to admit I think they suck, I wouldn't use a single one of their "products" just on general principles now. Just too slimy, and I hate how thew rest of computerdom always kowtows to them. Just a personal gripe. they could have the best OS in the world and pay me 100 bucks to install it and I still wouldn't do it. I don't support the mafia, the mpaa, the riaa, or microsoft, they all are just too slimy and crooked for me. Different strokes.
Re:Expected (Score:2, Insightful)
What's really sad is that there's no reason both Dell and Verizon can't contract out to someone that is both willing and capable of supporting Linux systems.
The problem isn't a lack of wanting to find good people that know linux that will work for them, it's finding good people that know linux that are willing to work for the peanuts that they pay their techs. It's pathetic what call centers pay and no self respecting tech is going to work for those wages unless they're in dire need of employment.
On the other hand, there are plenty of guys working in the electronics section at walmart for $7 an hour that would be happy to take the one week class the call center has that "certifies" them and become a help desk tech. Hence, the frustration many of us experience when we call for tech support.