Woman Claims Ubuntu Kept Her From Online Classes 1654
stonedcat writes "A Wisconsin woman has claimed that Dell computers and Ubuntu have kept her from going back to school via online classes. She says she has called Dell to request Windows instead however was talked out of it. Her current claim is that she was unaware that she couldn't install her Verizon online disk to access the Internet, nor could she use Microsoft Word to type up her papers."
Humor? Entertainment? (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly (Score:4, Insightful)
This connects with what I just said [slashdot.org] below you.
Sure, we can mock it, but there are real issues here:
- She doesn't know that she doesn't need to install any "Verizon High Speed Internet CD" in order for her Verizon DSL to function.
- She doesn't know that OpenOffice.org can handle her needs for "Microsoft Word" just fine
- She probably wouldn't know that Firefox can handle all of her browsing needs even where another OS is specified (under most circumstances)
So how can we bridge those kinds of gaps?
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Informative)
You've obviously never used Verizon DSL. Their system requires a login/password which is generated via their Windows-only software when you're setting things up. Once you have that you no longer need Windows to connect to the internet, but you do need to that once to get the system & modem set up.
Seriously. No joke.
I presume you can set that stuff up over the phone if you have a Mac or something, but that's probably non-obvious for someone who accidentally orders a Linux laptop.
And, also, Firefox cannot necessarily handle all of her "browsing needs". It's not always Firefox's fault, but there's a reason I have IE Tab set up for a handful of sites and it's not because I'm a web developer.
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Informative)
And, also, Firefox cannot necessarily handle all of her "browsing needs". It's not always Firefox's fault, but there's a reason I have IE Tab set up for a handful of sites and it's not because I'm a web developer.
I wonder how those Mac and Linux people even get around the web these days... Or does Safari and Konqueror fill the gap that IE leaves?
For consumer-space internet, I haven't run into an IE-only website since... well, Maplestory used to be IE only...
Unless you're running some archaic banking software that uses ActiveX (or something like it), there's simply no reason to claim that.
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, no factual disagreement on the basic point, that a service that requires a particular OS sucks. But I wonder how many people are grasping the real issue here...
You, and many others, when faced with a reason why this situation didn't work for a common user, focus on reasons why those issues shouldn't be issues.
Well, that's why 2009 won't be the year of Linux on the desktop. "Linux to conquer the world" is much more ambitious a goal than "Linux to conquer a made-up world in which only problems that 'should' exist do exist".
Some people go as far as to attack the user for not knowing enough, or for not handling the situation the way the poster thinks he/she would've handled it even if they didn't know what they know. Well, again, "Linux for the common user" is far more ambitious than "Linux for the common user where common user is defined to be like me".
Linux will be hindered in the consumer market as long as the typical approach is to think that the market should change to accept Linux, and not the other way around. And that's fine if that's what Linux wants to be -- but just don't act confused about why other OS's still dominate the desktop.
I need a new computer, this one is full... (Score:5, Insightful)
I was just remembering yesterday how I used to hear my clients say that they needed new computers because their old ones were full. This woman is in this category.
There are people out there who have no idea how computers work and they are prey to all sorts of disingenuous marketing and out and out disinformation.
Instead of running a news story on this, they would have done her more good by just telling her she was ignorant and pointing her in the right direction to get information so she can stop being a victim. The skills she would gain in learning about the computer and sorting the BS from the truth might even translate to other aspects of her life, like car and house buying, or job hunting.
Re:I need a new computer, this one is full... (Score:5, Insightful)
There are people out there who have no idea how computers work and they are prey to all sorts of disingenuous marketing and out and out disinformation.
The price of ignorance, whether of technical or financial matters, has never been higher in our society and it is growing larger all of the time. My advice to these people would be to turn off American Idle and crack a few books or Google some basic knowledge instead of whining when the smarter and more educated people take all of their money.
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Insightful)
I have to call you, and many, many others on this statement. Sure, OpenOffice does handle standard word documents without too much trouble. But time and again I have encountered heavily customised word documents with tick boxes, mixed colum formatting, etc, etc, which Openoffice simply cannot display with fidelity. And by fidelity, I mean make sure the danm funding form fits on one page and not bleed it over onto the second.
Sure, you may think these documents are obscure. Trouble is they aren't. They are typically, ancient Word 97 produced affairs, devised by a "self educated" whiz somewhere in the accounting department with too much time on their hands . Universities are saturated with these documents, as is any small or medium sized company that has ever had such a "whiz" in their employ. They're sort of like one of those custom Access programs written by a non-programmer that slowly grow and mutate. It suffices to say that Open Office, while it does not choke, simply cannot cope under the strain of displaying them.
The essential problem here is that people feel they NEED to use MS Word or an equivalent program for absolutely everything. I have been sent emails containing nothing but an MS Word attachment in which is contained... the "letter" I was being sent. It's crazy. If I am ever in a position where I am accepting or grading papers, or summaries, or memos, or whatever, each and every single submission will be required to be a simple TXT file. They're perfectly adequate for just about everything except diagrams, and if they need to use those they can be submitted as attachments.
One word. Flash. This is not a settled issue on any Linux system to this day. Sure it can work, but not on every system. The situtation with flash in Linux closely resembles that of video drivers about five years ago, when it was still necessary in many instances to edit xfree86 conf files or the like. With the ever growing domination of youtube, a browser without guaranteed out of the box flash is seriously deficient. Not even Ubuntu has this.
Flash is a Big Deal (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Exactly (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately Linux users have the tendency to call people idiots unless you approach them with "xyz OS desktop/OS can do this but blahblah Linux distro can't".
Actually, this has little to do with fortune or with linux. It's a fundamental feature of human psychology. The computer industry has long been plagued by it, of course, but it's much more general. The best approach is to just the above as the best approach.
Thus, back in the 1980s, when I first got onto unix systems and faced the problem known as "emacs vs. vi", I found the same thing. If I asked in any forum "How do you do task T with editor E?", the answer inevitably was of the form "WTF? RTFM, n00b!"
But I quickly learned that the proper approach was to phrase the question as a negative statement: "Hey guys, emacs can do T, but vi can't." This would almost always be answered by one or more explanations of exactly how to do it in vi. Interchange "emacs" and "vi" to learn about doing T in emacs. Sometimes they would insult me, too, but I learned to dig the facts out of the insults and go on my way. Yes, I learned the basic mechanics of both editors from smallish manuals. But the real learning was done by claiming that an editor couldn't do something, and waiting for the experts to show what a dummy I was.
I did eventually settle on vi, mostly because I found myself doing a lot of work on machines that were borked somehow, or were on the other end of a semi-sane network link that ate control characters, or whatever. I'd make the claim that "Emacs/vi can't be used unless you have a totally sane link to a totally sane system". The vi experts responded by explaining things like the "ex" interface and other tricks that made it usable in most cases. They also suggested learning "ed" and "sed" for extreme failure situations, but I'd already done that. OTOH, the emacs experts never answered such charges, telling me that emacs really wasn't usable on a damaged system. So I went with vi, while envying the folks that never had to deal with recovering a brain-damaged system or negotiating with comm gadgets that ate control characters.
So maybe our tactic should be to teach people to approach linux experts with the "Linux can't do T" sort of charge. Don't ask the linux experts how to do T; challenge them to teach a dummy like you that linux can do task T. This will also help greatly with getting info about Windows, of course, but that's probably not what most readers here want to do. I've also found that this tactic does wonders with getting Mac fanboys to loosen up, stop chanting "It Just Works!", and explain how to get the little things to do the job right.
Claiming that "System S can't do task T" is a general tactic that the public should know about when dealing with any tech experts. If we educate people about it, it might go a long way toward getting them on our side by making their computers do what they want.
My current favorite claim is that linux software can't print UTF-8-encoded text with stuff like Arabic or Chinese text. I suspect that this probably isn't true, because linux is widely used in Asia. But so far, it seems true, because about all I've found is assertions that it's possible, without any coherent explanation of how people (in Asia?) are doing it. (I've also collected a list of email addresses of people around the world saying that if I find a good answer, I should forward a copy to them. ;-)
(The Mac crowd also doesn't answer this charge, either, so apparently Macs can't print UTF-8 text, either. I'd be happy to be proved an idiot here ...)
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
This woman is beyond stupid, though. She dropped out of school because she couldn't figure out how to make her computer work. And then, apparently, her solution to this life crisis wasn't to ask someone knowledgeable about computers - it was to call the local news!
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Funny)
Thank you. Rather than arguing about saying "Linux isn't for everyone" can we all just agree that in this case "college isn't for everyone?"
Thanks.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Funny)
She dropped out of school because she couldn't figure out how to make her computer work.
Dude, it's even better than that. She dropped out of technical college because she couldn't figure out how to make her computer work.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
And then, apparently, her solution [...] was to call the local news!
Which leads me to think that she is on the Microsoft paybook. Her story perfectly fits in the MS war against Linux and open source, and it needs as much media coverage as possible. Remember, spread the FUD.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not a conspiracy hound, but maybe you are right... how does one "accidentally" order Ubuntu? It's not an option in their customizer... you have to somehow navigate through to their open source page, which then links you to their open source computers. And the picture shows an Inspiron, which to get to $1100, you literally have to max out... also seems fishy. I mean, if she really knows so little about computers, how did she know to max out everything? And if she was going to drop $1100 on a notebook, why didn't she click on the $1000 XPS instead of the $500 Inspiron?
Probably still not a conspiracy, though.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
Her lack of computer finesse isn't the funny thing here for me. I saw the newscast on this. She had two problems: She didn't have MS Office, and her Verizon internet disc tried to run it's startup.exe. She just has to save her papers in .doc format, and have a Verizon tech crew come out and fix her internet. It took the news anchorman two (2) phone calls to fix this for her.. so what attempt is there to mock? She probably just slacked off for her classes and used Dell as as excuse.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the story she somehow accidentally ordered the laptop with Ubuntu. I am not sure how she managed that because I have to *search* Dell's site to find their Linux offerings, but I digress and that is irrelevant anyway.
What is relevant is that she received a laptop configured in a manner she was unfamiliar with. She should have just returned the laptop if it was sent this way in error. My point is, she didn't attempt to use it (Ubuntu) in any sort of meaningful way. She *assumed* the laptop had Windows installed. She is familiar with Windows. She attempted running a disk that requires Windows and then looked for the MS Office icons and couldn't find them and then she gave up. Again, if what she ordered was a Windows machine, the blame falls squarely on Dell and Dell should make it right. If she did order the laptop with Ubuntu and ignored all of the warnings about how this order does not have Windows and Windows software will not run on Linux etc.... then the blame is fully hers.
This has nothing to do with Windows vs. Linux as she never made a conscious choice to use Linux. She also didn't make much effort in using Ubuntu. In fact, if she has to miss *two* semesters of school because of this, it screams to me that she was looking for a reason to not go to school and this is the perfect excuse in her mind.
Smell test (Score:5, Insightful)
No, what is relevant is her story doesn't pass the smell test. It's an astroturf campaign. Go to Dell.com and TRY to recreate her story. The only Linux you can easily find is the little mini and that ain't what she bought. You have to search on linux in the search bar to find any of their other Ubuntu offerings and the page you get dropped on says this:
Assume she somehow managed to get there, which is improbable enough. If she bought after reading that she is not college material. And this ignores the fact she was buying a computer for college and didn't a) inquire as to their requirements before purchase and b) didn't get in on the discounts most colleges have on both the laptop itself and she could have probably picked up Windows+Office at a massive student discount. Colleges are full of nerds who would have been happy to help her either install Windows or learn to use Ubuntu for the price of pizza and her company. The town has a LUG for crying out loud, help was at hand.
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet here is a normal person, trying to use it, and finding it frustrating and causing her problems, and people mock her attempt.
"Normal" is a very flexible definition depending on whoever sets the boundaries between normal and stupid. In my opinion a very stupid woman spoke to a very stupid Dell rep who wasn't able to tell her how to start OpenOffice (for fucks sake Applications/Office/Writer -how hard is that?) and relied on very stupid Verizon that can't produce an Ubuntu Linux installer for their silly software package.
... section 2 would have said "Set up without disc like this:"
... they want to be so stupid that they simply won't be able to. Anyone should be able to read, it's your responsibility as owner of the fucking machine to understand at least a bit of how it works. It's this "I don't get the first page in the book so I stop reading" attitude. If you don't WANT to do gain that knowledge you will have these kinds of silly idiot problems all the way. So "I am stupid" and "I don't want to know" are two different things and significant ones indeed. Sometimes a book starts making sense only after you've read it even without knowing what the first couple pages meant.
I had a similar problem with my sister-in-law. Gave them a Ubuntu machine and she kept trying to install some ISPs network setup disc. Eventually I went over to their house and got the network running with half a dozen clicks by reading the (incredibly stupid) manual section that was about half a page long with pictures. She didn't even bother to read beyond section 1. Install software
THAT is the problem, not that people can't use Linux
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Funny)
A few google searches by her...
How would she do that if she doesn't know how to connect?
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Humor? Entertainment? (Score:5, Informative)
Keyboarding Introduction [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10106101
Learn computer keyboarding (alphabetic and numeric keypad), develop speed and accuracy.
Credits: 1
Internet Introduction [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10103146
Introduction to email software: send, receive, reply to, and forward messages; attach files; use signature blocks; and organize mail in folders. Overview of Internet features: web browsers and search engines, bookmarks and shortcuts, hypertext links and URL addresses, digital camera use, and on-line web resources. Prerequisite: competency in Windows (10103124, 10103134, or 10103135).
Credits: 1
Keyboard Skillbuilding [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10106139
Identify keyboarding weaknesses through diagnostic tests and analyses. Refine keyboarding technique, increase speed and improve accuracy through individualized corrective practice. Prerequisite: 10106101 or touch keyboarding experience.
Credits: 1
Windows XP [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10103135
Introduces the Windows XP operating system: work with common elements (windows, menus, toolbars, panes, dialog boxes and Help), use accessory programs, manage files/folders using My Computer and Explorer, customize using the Control Panel and maintain the computer.
Credits: 1
Windows Vista [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10103124
This course introduces the Windows Vista operating system: work with common elements (windows, ribbons, dialog boxes, and Help), use accessory programs, manage file/folders, customize settings and maintain the computer.
Credits: 1
Word - Beginning [matcmadison.edu]
Catalog #10103137
Introduction to Microsoft's word processing software. Create, edit, save, format and print basic documents; cut/copy/paste and find/replace text; apply font styles and effects; add bullets and numbering; work with tabs and indents; align text; apply borders and shading; use wizards and templates to produce documents; insert headers/footers; apply different formatting to document sections; create columns; insert clip art. Create and format tables, modify rows and columns, perform calculations, sort table data, customize tables. Prerequisite: competency in Windows or Windows course (10-103-124, 10-103-134 or 10-103-135).
Credits: 1
We had classes in college that we labeled as "Mickey Mouse" - you'd sign up for one if you needed an easy credit. This, on the other hand, makes Mickey Mouse look like Einstein.
This is a real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, this story did cause some criticism, which resulted in a followup story [wkowtv.com] (even calling it "Ubunto" once - nice). So more angry (or informative) letters from Linux-advocates aren't going to set the record straight [xkcd.com] at this point.
But it does raise a larger question about the adoption of Linux. How can the perception that Microsoft Windows and its trappings are effectively mandatory be overcome? Her computer can handle all of her needs: email, web browsing via Firefox, Microsoft Office-compatible documents via OpenOffice.org, and no need to "install" any Windows-only "Verizon High Speed Internet CD" to use Verizon DSL.
But since many Linux-advocates presumably want to see things like Ubuntu go mainstream, the answer can't be "this woman is a moron and the TV station is worse for covering it". Her problems, even if they seem ridiculous, were real enough to her. So how do you counter this kind of problem? (Some might say decent journalism could have helped here, but that's part and parcel of the perception problem.)
Re:This is a real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
I have had this battle on multiple occasions with my online classes trying to explain that I don't use Windows or MS Office. The difference is that I am an experienced user and I actually understand why the college is incorrect. They say it "requires Office XYZ" but what they mean is "you need to be able to create and edit Word compatible documents". Most users are going to take the statement "requires Office XYZ" literally because they don't understand the alternatives, and the people saying "requires Office XYZ" are probably even less likely to understand that there are even alternatives available.
It's a plant (Score:5, Insightful)
1) You can't "accidentally" find an Ubuntu Dell.
2) Dell support would NEVER say "you don't want windows, Ubuntu works better for you".
3) She took FIVE MONTHS to complain
It's a fake.
Re:It's a plant (Score:5, Interesting)
1) You can't "accidentally" find an Ubuntu Dell.
2) Dell support would NEVER say "you don't want windows, Ubuntu works better for you".
3) She took FIVE MONTHS to complain
It's a fake.
It's not so much a fake as a woman rationalizing her decision to drop out of college - "It's not my fault I couldn't make it, I got a bad computer!"
Re-read your own post - either a plant, or a moron (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering that this woman ostensibly had to cancel two semesters worth of enrollment, this sounds like it should be a good deal higher on her priority list than what you suggest.
Which leaves two likely scenarios -- either it's a fake, or she's a certifiable moron. I certainly hope it's a fake -- if not, I truly fear for the future of humanity. This would be one individual that would not have been smart enough to survive back in the day. If she really is this dumb (I don't mean dumb about Linux, I mean dumb enough to cancel out of two semesters of a *technical* college rather than bother to find someone with half a clue to help her -- this would apply to *any* OS, or *any* technical snafu of any sort), such extra stupidity wandering around the gene pool can't be a good thing.
Cheers,
Re:This is a real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
The Student Computer Help staff assist MATC students with questions about:
MATC student email accounts
the Microsoft Office suite,
installing the Wisconsin Integrated Software Catalog products,
Blackboard and various other curriculum-based software packages at MATC.
As I said, there is no excuse. The school has allocated resources to deal with exactly what her problem was, but she couldn't be bothered to lift a finger to educate herself.
Re:This is a real problem (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This is a real problem (Score:4, Informative)
This is pretty awesome *for* linux. (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it is major egg on Verizon's face.
The larger the linux market segment gets, the less windows benefits from it's network effect.
As far as the word processor goes- she just needs a clue about Openoffice or some of the other fine WP's available.
Hopefully she isn't going into a technical degree area with this little knowledge of computers at that age.
CALL VERIZON INSTEAD OF THE NEWS!!! (Score:5, Funny)
As a result, with no internet and no Microsoft Word, Schubert dropped out of MATC's fall and spring semesters.
Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.
Re:CALL VERIZON INSTEAD OF THE NEWS!!! (Score:5, Funny)
[quote] Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too. [/quote]
Yeah, send the morons out to operate heavy equipment and then wonder why your underground fiber got cut...
Re:CALL VERIZON INSTEAD OF THE NEWS!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.
The world still needs PHD's.
(Post Hole Diggers)
No problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Verizon says it will dispatch a technician to try to assist her accessing the internet without using the Windows-only installation disk.
MATC also says it promises to accept any of Schubert's papers or class documents using whatever software she has installed.
So what's the fucking problem ?!?
Re:No problem (Score:5, Insightful)
So what's the fucking problem ?!?
The problem is that this girl couldn't figure out how to call Verizon and the school herself. It sounds like Dell worked her over as well, but dropping out of school before calling their help desk is just crazy.
The follow-up is much more interesting... (Score:5, Informative)
In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In other news... (Score:4, Funny)
A girl couldn't finish her paper because her pc ate it and went beep beep beep beeep.
it was a really good paper.
RTFM? (Score:4, Insightful)
If she can't RTFM, how is she going to read the texts for her classes?
Idiocy (Score:5, Funny)
A Wisconsin woman has claimed that General Motors has kept her from going back to school. She says she has called GM to request a bike instead however was talked out of it. Her current claim is that she was unaware that she couldn't drive.
Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
So the woman is suing the company because she lacks the mental capacity to properly use their product?
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Still not as bad as the women who doesn't understand that -5 is higher then -8.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1022757_cool_cash_card_confusion [manchester...news.co.uk]
What's depressing is that the clerk was fooled into believing she won too which means there is more then one idiot out there.
So let me get this straight... (Score:5, Insightful)
Kidding aside, Dell should have just allowed her to return it for a Windows model if that's what she wanted. She clearly did not have the technical prowess to figure out how to configure her internet access without the walkthrough software.
Re:The school is a joke... (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, judge a school entirely by its online courses. Let's look at some of their real classes:
Advanced Bioinformatics
Catalog #10007181
This capstone course in Bioinformatics provides the student with experience in the design and implementation of basic programming concepts applied to bioinformatics problems. Using the skills gained in previous certificate courses, the student designs and completes an independent project using the Perl programming language, Oracle database, and internet technology in the UNIX operating system. Prerequisite: grade of C or better in all certificate courses and concurrent enrollment in 10-007-180, 10-152-111, 10-152-120, 10-152-125, 10-152-151, and completion of or concurrent enrollment in 10-154-190.
Credits: 4
and
Clinical Ophthalmic Procedures
Catalog #31516327
This course prepares the technician to assist the doctor in advanced office techniques in the area of ultrasound, in-office surgical procedures, case history and scribing. Students will also study various systemic diseases and their affect on the eye. The performance of various skills is emphasized in the laboratory sessions. Prerequisites: 31-516-315, 31-516-301, 31-516-305, 31-509-303Prerequisites: Ophthalmic Pre-Testing 31516301; Ocular Anatomy 31516315; Basic Optical Concepts 31516305 and Body Structure 300-level or higher.
Credits: 2
and
Network Security Design
Catalog #10150193
This course affords the network security specialist the opportunity to conduct a vulnerability analysis upon a network in order to practice or refine the attack methodologies with the hacker tools and techniques to which the student was exposed during the various program courses. The student must demonstrate the ability to design, plan and execute a vulnerability analysis against an organization network. In this class, students learn the skills necessary for the Certified Information System Security Professional (CISSP) certification. Prerequisite: 10-150-164 and 10-150-196
Credits: 3
and
X-Ray Microanalysis
Catalog #10636141
Students perform elemental analysis with energy dispersive X-ray systems on both TEM and SEMs. The use of matrix corrections, qualitative and quantitative computer analysis routine will constitute a major part of this course. Prerequisite: grade of C or better in both 10-636-131 and 10-636-132, or consent of the instructor.
Credits: 4
Is her name John Dvorak? (Score:5, Funny)
This sounds like one of his troll articles.
Newsflash! (Score:5, Funny)
Newsflash: Online student discovers that basic brain functions are required to run and operate a computer. Film at eleven.
College isn't for everyone.. (Score:4, Insightful)
sales and tech support really dropped the ball (Score:4, Interesting)
She actually realized she had made a mistake before the computer was shipped, and called Dell. But the rep she spoke to convinced her to stick with Ubuntu anyway. It appears that he didn't suggest one of the support packages that Dell offers for their Ubuntu machines.
Another missed part of the story is that Verizon mustn't have done anything to help her before this became news (given my experience with big ISPs they don't give much help if you're using Linux, so I assume she called).
While it isn't exactly fair to expect companies to bend over backwards to help customers with what they perceive to be "exotic" setups, I wonder why, after all these years, they don't at least have a list of local LUGs to which they could direct Linux users. Had someone at least got her in touch with them, I bet the problems could have been resolved.
Man claims Porsche kept him from getting laid (Score:4, Funny)
He asked Porsche to install the ignition the other way around but was talked out of it given the decades old tradition of left mounted ignition in Porsche vehicles. He refused to handle the key with the left hand and subsequently broke his elbow during the attempt of operating it with his right.
His lawyer announced today that he was going to sue Porsche and the Left-Handers Society of America for building such a highly inconvenient car and damages amounting to 15.0000 US dollars and two Apple-tinis.
In other news: Stupid woman saves money with alternative open operating system - Misses Online Strip Class
This is likely to be MS astroturfing/fake news (Score:5, Insightful)
I just posted a witty reply to this story. Reading TFA again it occured to me that this is most likely MS fake news and/or astroturfing. It requires quite a few clicks to actually customize a Laptop at Dell and have it come with Ubuntu rather than some MS Windows variant.
I'd say this might very well be fake news.
She's not college material. (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I understand her point from the inconvenience, but in the larger sense of the word, I thought college was partially a test in determination and overcoming adversity. Not everything goes right when in school and those who make it through it overcome it, and those who do not, don't.
I know a guy who is getting his degree despite missing a finger and the use of an eye compliments of a tour in Iraq, all while trying to support a wife and son. I would think -he- has some problems to overcome.
woman has a computer that's not what she expects? I would suggest that, if she has a paper due, get on the internet, find out what she has, learn quickly, and get something out the door. She might, well, learn something, and I thought that was what college was for!
Valid yet Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sick of this Linux attitude (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sick of the linux communities' attitude that she should have known linux was "internet capable" right out of the box; or that she could have opened up a document in OpenOffice. I think the community forgets that for the majority of internet users, they started out by getting a CD in the mail (AOL/Compuserve/Prodigy/Earthlink/Mindspring whatever) and that launched an application which had an integrated browser/email/news/stocks client. So she treated her internet access like a black box; big deal. Most people treat their cars like black boxes as well.
Someone handed her a Microsoft Word document; why should we blame her if she looked on her computer and *GASP* didn't see Microsoft Word. Is it possible that just maybe, he classes said as a requirement you needed MSWord for the class materials? Maybe there are spreadsheets that are handed out that have tons of formulas and macros in them; is the instructor going to worry about OO macro compatibility. No, and neither should she.
Dell should be ashamed for not allowing her computer to be returned, but the linux community should be ashamed as well. For assuming that all computer users are part IT Staff. Maybe we should expect the average /. user to be able to sit down at a 3270 terminal and configure the IOCDS or perform a datamigration with DFSMS on my zSeries. I mean, it's just a computer right, it must run rsync....
Just like with cars, some people are mechanics, some people just change oil and filters and others just drive the car. It's a shame the linux community can't understand the same thing about computers.
America's Best & Brightest (Score:5, Insightful)
But seriously..
This may read like flamebait, but Shuttleworth needs to invest in a magazine or newsletter. There's still a lot of misconception as to what Linux or Ubuntu is/isn't, and can/can't provide.
This printed matter needs to accompany Ubuntu, no matter what media or hardware it ships on, and should serve as a FAQ and HowTo.
I submit:
---
Q: Can I use the 'Drivers and Manual' CD that came with my new 'X'?
A: No.
Q: Can I buy 'PC' games at WalMart that work with Ubuntu without special tricks?
A: No.
Q: Is Ubuntu a 'Generic' version of Windows?
A: No.
Q: Is Ubuntu a platform supported by Verizon, Rogers, AT&T, Qwest, HP, IBM, Toshiba, Apple, Samsung, Sony, Brother, or Canon?
A: No.
Q: Will Ubuntu save me money, trouble, or headaches?
A: Yes, but only if you're agile-minded and not willing to pirate Windows.
How Software Works (Score:5, Funny)
This girl is typical of the mainstream, and what people often fail to grasp is that Windows is just as technically challenging to use as Linux, but there is a very large and established support infrastructure for Windows and years of conditioning the Windows experience.
As an aside, this girl is really dumb. You mean to tell me she can't find a guy to fix her computer?! Here are some easy to follow instructions:
Go to nearest Department of Computer Science
Find male
Use bedroom voice
Say "fix it."
Blow kiss
The hard part is not ending up with several guys at your apartment... Or maybe that isn't the hard part.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I was going to go into a tirade about how stupid the girl is, but the reality is that she called to explain the mixup and Dell somehow convinced her to keep Ubuntu. Dell, if someone calls and says they got a Ubuntu computer by mistake, just have them ship it back. It isn't worth it.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Funny)
Believe it or not, our linux enthusiasts here are as enthusiastic as many slashdot posters.
That she needs and deserves Windows probably escaped the rep...
Re:dell and modems (Score:5, Informative)
The Comcast CD that came with my Internet self-install officially supported Windows and OSX, so I could install it on my laptop at least -- or so I thought until I tried. It also specifically required Internet Explorer 5 for Mac, a product not available even through the MS website anymore.
Of course, the whole situation was moot. Those install CD-ROMs aren't required to use the modem. I just called Comcast and told them to activate my modem, and I was online in minutes.
Verizon DSL is similarly not limited to Windows. The article actually says that Verizon supports Ubuntu, and that they are going to send over tech support.
This really shouldn't have made news anywhere, it basically amounts to "Woman has trouble setting up her Internet connection, complains to the press before receiving support from her ISP."
Thank you for your suggestion (Score:5, Funny)
"Dell, if someone calls and says they got a Ubuntu computer by mistake, just have them ship it back. "
We'll get right on that.
Sincerely,
All of Dell (we all read Slashdot, but just share this one account)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
If the Dell support rep could have just given her two or three helpful tips, she could have probably been fine. OpenOffice is a perfect replacement for Word. I don't know about her Verizon situation, but I'm sure there is a workaround for that.
The problem is, as I've been flamed for before, Linux is still nowhere near the point where a non-techie will consider adopting it. Although it's much better than it was even a few years ago, it's still not an idiot-friendly OS where things 'just work', compared to what people are used to.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Funny)
Although it's much better than it was even a few years ago, it's still not an idiot-friendly OS where things 'just work'
Judging by the number of support calls I get from friends, nor is Windows.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Fair comment, actually.
The worst thing you can do for someone is give them a new computer. I've worked in very large shops (~2500-3000 desktop deployments per year), and fielded questions from small ones as well as from individual users. People get used to the methods their computer presents them (their files are *here*, their Word program is *there*, they get on the internet *this way*). Give them a new computer, any computer, even if it's the same OS, and they're hosed.
Where are their shortcuts? How do they get to the "H:" drive? What about the TPR form (that was sitting in a message, in Outlook, that they kept opening whenever they needed a new copy). I don't think IT people can really appreciate how the secretaries, order takers and commerce students of the world function. It's not necessarily a Linux thing (though Linux raises the barrier height more than a little). After working with some of these people for a while, I have no idea how they cope when they rent a car that's different from their own, get a new toaster, or buy a new light switch: the least little difference completely flummoxes them. Stupid might be a harsh, if not an entirely inaccurate term
This woman is probably in this category: given a difference---any difference---and she promptly "shuts down" and goes into silent panic mode. The opportune question is why it took so long for her to admit to the problem. I've taken calls from managers screaming because some order-desk flunkie hasn't been able to work since her PC was replaced three weeks ago, and now she can't find her RMA form shortcut and everything's "all different" (for the record: XP to XP, Office 2003 to Office 2003, no changes save the hardware and a new profile upon login, all documents saved to Sharepoint and/or fileservers, mailbox in Exchange). Why she didn't call three weeks ago was the point I raised, and the one I never got an answer for.
There's a certain willfull stupidity in the general populace. They don't know computers, they can't know them, it's an evil black box and they'll find anything possible to complain about. They can be young, old, male, female, of any race, creed to culture: they're bound together by their raw, unadulterated pigheadedness.
At some point, the paradigm is going to have to change. I don't know how it will change: Terminal Server-like remote desktops with a Time Machine like backup strategy available through an always-on internet connection? Web desktops? Special-purpose devices in lieu of general-purpose PCs?
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Give them a new computer, any computer, even if it's the same OS, and they're hosed.
I've always suspected the problem is deeper than a mere "they don't understand computers" issue. The gory details of where a person keeps their documents and how he or she interacts with them and deals with information sources like the Web have nothing to do with IT specifically, but rather offer a more general window into the user's thought process. When you get involved with performing major maintenance on or replacing someone's computer, you're involving yourself in how they treat information generally - how they organize their files, remember important facts, and process incoming data. And most people stink at these things.
I remember one woman I used to support who made backups of her entire directory tree by making a copy of the tree under a new directory, which she'd invaariably name with her initials - let's say they're DMC to protect her identity. So almost every time I'd visit her to fix something on her computer I'd discover that she'd be nearly out of disk space (which was often the source of the problem), and the reason was that there would be a DMC folder containing a dupe of everything ... including previous backups, each in its own DMC folder, nested in a way that made me laugh, but also nearly drove me mad. I'd end up having to reconcile three or four different DMC folders in order to bring her back to a safe level of disk space.
But guess what? Her office was also a mess! Having a computer doesn't cause this sort of problem. It just involves IT people in the fallout.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, I see you've worked at my office then.
The key thing to remember when working with people like this is that they have a different way of working with their computer. They might use a computer for the entirety of their working day, but they never actually learn how to use it at all.
What they do is memorise tasks that achieve specific goals. To you and me, we learn how to do an abstract process - like how email works - then adapt that process to fit to whatever we're doing at the time. If we want to do something we haven't done before, we use our standard process of looking it up on google or the help files, and follow the instructions. If we want to find and submit an RMA form, we think 'ah, that's a document. I'll edit and print that in word.' You open word, open the document, then print it to your closest printer, having learned the general process for each - or at least how to look it up. Using a different version or a different printer doesn't phase us, because we know what we're looking for, and just browse around till we find what microsoft called the action this time round.
For them though, they never learn, or want to learn the process. As you say, it's a magic black box. They don't know it's word. They barely know it's a document. What they DO know is that, when they were shown how to do it on the PC they inherited from their predecessor, when they want to process an RMA request they go to the 4th icon along, 2 down on the 'screensaver' and double click. They then go here, here and here and write this and that bit of information in. They then go to the bar at the top, click the big round button, and select the 4th option down, and click the 2nd option. And the piece of paper comes out the printer.
Then their computer breaks. They can't click the 4th icon along, 2nd down any more because the screen is all black. They ring tech support to tell them they can't process RMA forms right now, and they need to do one really urgently, and get a load of gibberish questions about what version of office they're using, and is it in their documents thingie, and can they open it on their neighbours PC or whatever, and what they WANT is someone to come out and fix it, right now, so they can send off this RMA form like usual that the manager told them to send off urgently. What they get is a new computer, and now NOTHING is where it should be. How can I work like this? where's my H: drive button gone? How can I possibly do RMA forms when it's not ANYWHERE on my screensaver?
My solution? Wait for them all to die and be replaced by their children.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
My 8 year old uses it just fine.
The woman is an airhead. Airheads regularly fail to critically examine what they're doing, then blame others for their lack of success. It's a personality flaw, and nothing anyone does is going to provide anything more than a very temporary fix. So, attempting to solve the problems of people like this woman by changing the operating system are doomed to failure.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
You are underestimating her.
Be the girl airhead, she'd likely have a boyfriend who could have helped her to configure the lappy as she wished.
My first impression is that the girl wanted to skip classes and was just looking for excuse. And she found.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Funny)
ThePhilips has a point though - all this girl had to do was find a nice computer tech and start dating him, turn him into her boyfriend and her entire life would have been saved.
Heck, it doesn't even take 100% dedication from the techie - she could have shared him with a half dozen of her other hot girlfriends, each of them spend one day out of the week with him and they could have all been saved.
Damn, someone needs to make some computer tech saves hot blond chicks porn. This would totally work.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
I also have a friend that wasn't too computer savy and she used to call me all the time trying to fix windows problems she had until finally she decided to buy a Dell with Ubuntu on it. What made it work for her is that she didn't try to force everything to work how she was used to things working. She knew it would be a learning curve and took the time to relearn how to use her computer.
She now NEVER calls me asking for help and frequently talks about how happy she is not having to use windows anymore and how many fewer problems she has. Ubuntu can be used by the computer illiterate. It just can't be used by stupid windows users that think if it doesn't work like windows it is broken.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
This really sounds like one of those "Joe the Plumber" stories where it could very well be motivated by some other process. After all, it's impressive that she found a system which had Ubuntu on it by default. She sounds really naive about computers, as does the article author, but yet she found her way to a $1,100 Dell laptop which came preloaded with Ubuntu and not Microsoft's Windows Vista.
What she did was really tough to do while being so naive. And let's not even get into how she claimed she needed it to have Microsoft Word but she could not have ordered that computer with Microsoft Office. I don't think Dell ships Ubuntu preloaded with WINE or even CrossOver Office. Could she really be so dumb as to decide she "needs" a computer to register for classes, not see what that registration system or the school requires and find her way through Dell's site and doesn't get a low cost laptop but a $1,100 model which has Ubuntu on it? This just sounds too convenient as in the "Joe the Plumber" situation.
She's one heck of a confused computer user or a mediocre publicity stunt by Waggener Edstrom or Microsft's current PR firm. And has her high school not taught her anything about computers? Maybe someone should research her high school to see if one child was left behind.
LoB
Re:Expected (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
What I gathered from the post was that he wasn't exactly sure what the problem was with verizon, but the poster knows enough about computers and DSL to assumed (correctly) that there is a way to connect to the internet with Verizon and with Ubuntu.
I love a small ISP (Score:5, Informative)
I'm with mesa networks and they are awesome.
Had a tech out diagnosing some problem and he was quite happy with a root prompt on my laptop to test things.
Saw my router and immediately asked if i'd gone with DD-WRT or something else.
I pay a little more than comcast, but that's a small price to pay for not dealing with comcast.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a Verizon FiOS network, with 128 IP's, that we're running a small hosting business on. There's a small problem on the line, so I asked for a field tech to come out and replace their outside box. No big deal, just come, swap out your slightly defective unit for a good one, so it doesn't become a bigger problem in the near future. We're getting the occasional CRC error on the uplink, and have already swapped the equipment on our side.
They asked what OS I was running. "Well, about a dozen Linux machines, and a half dozen Win2k/S2k3 machines."
They asked "So are you running XP or Vista"
I had to start over. "This is a business FiOS line. We're using it for a small hosting business. We have many machines. We have 128 IP's from you because of that. "
Then they asked me which of their routers we are using. {sigh} Their routers are crap. They provide us with a Cat5 ethernet cable from their demarc outside. That goes directly into a Cisco Catalyst 2924XL-EN.
"Oh, if you're not using our router, we can't help you. Maybe you can call Cisco."
I blew up inside, but very politely told them that I am a Cisco Certified Network Administrator, and I have worked as a higher level Cisco Engineer for the past 12 years. I'll be more than happy to help you with this matter. By evaluating the errors, there appears to be a failure on your side of the link, which would be your demarc on the wall. If you could be kind enough to have a field technician come out and swap the demarc, I would be very happy.
That got me put on hold. He came back, apparently with one of their "network engineers" on chat with him. He'd type what I said, wait for a response, and then read it back to me. Over the next half hour, the engineer finally told me that it was obviously a routing issue somewhere on the Internet, and I should run traceroutes to see where it is, but it's definitely outside of Verizon's control. I told the CSR that was still on the phone with me echoing the "network engineer" responses, that the "network engineer" was a complete blithering idiot, who wouldn't be able to diagnose a network problem to save his life. There's no way in hell that a CRC errror comes from anywhere but either the two endpoints of a cable, one of which is my switch, and the other their demarc, or the cable in between. They made it clear that the cable is property of Verizon, or I'd swap that too.
Ahhh, now I'm worked up. I'm going to start calling them again. It's been several weeks of trying to get them to address this. I'm tempted to hit it with a stun gun, just so it'll be completely down, and they can come out and fix it. Too bad I don't own a stun gun. :)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Funny)
Too bad I don't own a stun gun. :)
Good excuse to buy one though.
Well, Cisco was supposed to teach you the ritual! (Score:5, Funny)
Here's the part about dealing with telcos that your CNA trainer must have skipped:
You: a squirrel has chewed through the FioS line, please send a tech.
Telco Support: Please repeatedly perform dozens of nearly random acts that demonstrate your social inferiority to my status as High Priest of Telco.
You: Sure thing!
Telco Support: What kind of computer are you running?
You: I have a desktop and a laptop. What do you recommend for best service?
Telco Support: Arcane and expensive mass-market product with obsolete features, bad support, firewall turned off and never patched, version the vendor no longer ships.
You: By amazing co-incidence, that is exactly the version I am running right here! What luck!
Telco Support: Twiddle many knobs and break lots of working stuff as I tell you to do things that cannot possibly fix a physically damaged line.
You: Sure thing! I like being helped! (be careful, here, you need to pause for appropriate amounts of time after each nonsensical suggestion is tendered so the Telco Rep will not figure out that you are watching TV and eating nachos instead of wasting your time actually doing the things he tells you to do).
You: Well, gee, it still doesn't work, even though I've reinstalled Windows three times now and stuck tender portions of my anatomy in the lightbulb socket as you instructed. What should we do now?
Telco Support: We'll have to send a truck out. It will be there sometime between 2 AM Friday a week from now and 3:15 PM Christmas next year. You will have to stay in the house between those times to let the technician into the house.
You: Sure thing, I love waiting in line! Thanks! You know, it's been such a great pleasure working with you an' all, I'd like to send you some cookies, how can I do that?
Telco Rep: We know that one. Wait for the truck.
You: OK, I'm off to my dentist appointment, I love all the drilling!
Now you wait for the truck to show up. DO NOT LEAVE THE PHONE UNATTENDED UNTIL THE TRUCK SHOWS UP. The truck will not come during the period the telco says it will come. The technician (who is not your enemy, incidentally) will receive a call from the dispatcher that goes like this:
Dispatcher: Some toad in Blooker street says his line's out. Most likely stuffed cheese and salami into his CDROM, but you better go check it out. Here's the number. If nobody answers just forget about it, his problem will most likely go away or he'll forget about it, I'm going to close the ticket now.
Tech: (Calls number)
You: Hello?
Tech: This is Jim from Telco, I got a call about a line being out?
You: Yeah, a squirrel chewed through the line. I can see it out my window.
Tech: Oh, is it FioS? We told purchasing to stop buying the kind insulated with molasses and peanut butter, but they won't listen, they say it is more cost-effective.
You: Yeah, FioS. It's the black jacket kind.
Tech: I'll be right over.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure we've all been in that situation and I know I lied and told the tech exactly what he wanted to hear....
Admittedly the factual information was correct, just not the method or screens.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Interesting)
Most likely she asked questions like "can I do papers in Ubuntu" and they told her how.
Dell is making a play to be a major Ubuntu reseller on Netbooks. Their tech support has to learn how to provide end user support for Ubuntu. Not just say "use windows".
And frankly this story doesn't smell right to me.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Um, no. Nothing here suggests that she ordered a Windows machine and got Ubuntu instead. She either didn't pay close enough attention, or did not understand enough about computers to know the difference. That's not a swindle. That's user error.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Informative)
Too bad the woman did not look for answers but simply blamed Dell instead out of ignorance.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
No, this is the sort of thing which makes "Idiocracy" [wikipedia.org] seem to be an insightful and predictive documentary...
Re:Expected (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Until the point at Windows doesn't "just work" (Score:5, Insightful)
If the computer doesn't do what she needs it to do in the first place, why does better security matter? She could put a rock on the desk, call it a computer and be just as productive and free from computer viruses.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows requires just as much tinkering as Linux, just in different ways.
Re:Expected (Score:4, Insightful)
It's her fault partially for not asking the right questions beforehand, but it's Dell's fault for not making sure she understood what she was getting and not supporting her after the fact.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
maybe we just can't expect everyone to finish college, some people are just not bright. serioulsy, do you want this person to be a doctor or manage your finances if she can't be bothered to click on the "network" icon in the top right corner of the screen? what kind of problem solving skills does she have.
IMHO, knowing enough about computers to set up a network (even with OS guidance) is not strongly correlated with medical or financial advisory skills.
For all I care, the doctor/financial advisor can be a luddite, using pen and paper for all his/her records, as long as they do the job well.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a local tech college. They're pretty good as local tech colleges go, but they're as Microsoft-centric as anywhere else.
Long ago, I served time on the help desk at the library there. Mac OSX was still relatively new, and the library had gotten some shiny new Macs in with OSX preinstalled (of course, PCs outnumbered Macs about 10:1). For some reason, all of them were reinstalled with OS 9 a few days after they came in. One of our regular Mac users was very irate at us, but of course us help desk folks had nothing to do with it.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
But there is no reason for a normal person to find some ad-hoc work around to the software not working on an OS they have no special love for.
Response the first: So would that Verizon CD have worked if she'd put it in a Mac? Really, this is an open question to anyone who's dealt with it, I don't know.
Response the second: Guess what everybody? You can't put Playstation games in a Wii! Holy shit!
In most people's minds, Office = MS. They aren't going to go looking for random alternatives just because they are out there. That isn't the way people work.
Yeah, Applications > Office > Word Processor is just so random. I mean, who would expect it? And that interface! Why, it's just so radically different from Office 2000, of course we can't expect this poor person to possibly understand it! This is obviously the geeks' fault.
Re:Expected (Score:5, Insightful)
But there is no reason for a normal person to find some ad-hoc work around to the software not working on an OS they have no special love for.
We're not talking about an "ad-hoc" workaround, we're talking about the normal way to do things. Verizon provides an easier solution in the form of Windows software, but from the comments I'm seeing here, that "easier" solution really isn't.
They aren't going to go looking for random alternatives just because they are out there.
Sorry, but there's a difference between Googling for something to download, and having the tiniest ounce of curiosity required even for a five year old to find Applications -> Office -> Word Processor.
The only reason to ever look for an alternative is when it DOESN'T work.
And in this case Office isn't installed. Rather than enlist a five year old to help her out, she dropped out of college. In fact, from TFA:
Verizon says it will dispatch a technician to try to assist her accessing the internet without using the Windows-only installation disk.
MATC also says it promises to accept any of Schubert's papers or class documents using whatever software she has installed.
Re:it figures, (Score:5, Funny)
why are the cute ones always dumb?
Take comfort in Judge Judy's quote: Beauty fades, but dumb is forever.
Re:it figures, (Score:5, Funny)
why are the cute ones always dumb?
Take comfort in Judge Judy's quote: Beauty fades, but dumb is forever.
Or Ron White's line: You can't fix stupid.
Re:it figures, (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In Other News... (Score:4, Funny)
No...There is a Wisconsin WOMAN. This WOMAN has Linux on a laptop. This WOMAN needs help. Come on guys, how big an opening do you need?!?