An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from CNet:
"Federal regulators said Thursday they are going into 'search and rescue' mode to help the millions of consumers unprepared for the phased transition to digital television, which culminates with the June 12 transition deadline. The millions of consumers waiting for coupons for digital converter box coupons will finally receive them within the next two and a half weeks, thanks to emergency funding for the coupon program provided in the stimulus package, said Bernadette McGuire-Rivera, an administrator for the National Telecommunications and Information Administration. The NTIA is also ratcheting up its outreach to consumers most likely to be unprepared for the transition... FCC commissioners said their agency is also intensifying its outreach, but they acknowledged that while one third of television stations have already dropped their analog signals, the hardest part is yet to come."
We previously discussed the DTV coupon program when it ran out of money in January. The $650 million from the stimulus packages adds to the $1.3 billion that's already been spent.
So what happens with people that ended up paying full price for a converter because the coupons stopped flowing and 1/3 of the transition (which in many places was nearly a full transition) already happened? Can they just get $40 back with the coupon and their original paid-full-price receipt? Even if they got their full price converter at Circuit City?
But people will die without tornado information, among other things.
Yes, radio is an option. When dealing with people, however, sometimes a graphical representation is just much more useful.
But TV is the opiate for the masses! How can you govern an intelligent, reasoning populace? You can't give them drugs, so you give them free coupons for TV!
To reclaim the spectrum (the fcc auctioned off access to the reclaimed spectrum for more than the converter box program spent).
Broadcast stations got much of that spectrum for a song, but it isn't particularly ridiculous that some of the funds were spent on mitigating the impact of the switch.
Well I'm a crazy [insert whatever] who wants to know why the hell we're giving handouts for TV for anybody! Nobody will die without American Idol.
They're doing it because they want the ability to revoke playback of recordings. It's necessary for the proper functioning of the Ministry of Truth.
Did you see the news the other night? Army kicking in peoples doors and stuff... that can't be real. That newscaster looked a bit freaked out when it was aired. Scared even. You didn't see it? Check it out,
Well I'm a crazy [insert whatever] who wants to know why the hell we're giving handouts for TV for anybody! Nobody will die without American Idol.
It's not a handout. It's a (partial) reimbursement from the government to the previous users of the bandwidth for seizing the bandwidth and selling it for billions, which went into the treasury.
The analog television system worked just fine for what it did. A LOT of people bought equipment in the good faith expectation that it would continue to be usable for the
The issue isn't about whether someone can get the money to pay for it. The issue is that the government is making a lot of money selling the spectrum, and part of it was to compensate people for the costs imposed on them.
The issue isn't about whether someone can get the money to pay for it. The issue is that the government is making a lot of money selling the spectrum, and part of it was to compensate people for the costs imposed on them.
Who will immediately re-compensate the wireless providers who purchased that spectrum by paying higher prices. It's not like we're getting anything for free, you know.
We're talkiing about $2 Billion so far ($1.3 Billion for the first program, $650 Million now) - exactly how much did we get from the sale of the spectrum and didn't we already spend it elsewhere? I can't believe someone in Washington left $650 Million dollars lying on the table after they auctioned off the specturm...
The government should give to noone. The government's only proper role is to uphold and protect individual rights. If you want to donate to worthy causes, feel free to do so, and to encourage your friends and family to, but don't force us all to pay for your pet program because you feel pity for the world and think you know how to solve everything.
by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday March 07 2009, @12:20AM (#27102365)
LIBERTARIANS:
LISTEN CAREFULLY: The government made a NET GAIN on this transition.
They sold the spectrum reclaimed from analogue broadcasts for much more than this coupon program costs. It's not donating taxpayer money for TVs, it's compensating people for re-selling THEIR assets (radio spectrum) to private companies, something the government should be doing more often IMHO. And before anyone jumps up and down about how "people should be allowed to broadcast on any channel they choose", realise that no radio communication would work if that were the case - everyone would broadcast over everyone else, no-one would receive the signal they want, and it would be anarchy. There needs to be some authorisation for maintaining radio signals, and as bad as they are, the government are the only ones capable and willing (private enterprises don't have authority over one another, and no market force compels them to maintain the spectrum in the interests of the people).
Libertarians with mod points, moderate this post to oblivion if you want.
The coupons expire after 90 days (I confirmed that on the dtv.gov page).. did you use expired coupons? and they worked?
He said he got them in "Early Jan". Even if he got them on January 1 (Assuming that he didn't mean January of a year other than 2009)it hasn't been 90 days.
Lots of people had to hurry up and buy right before Feb 17. If the coupons had been flowing as they should have been, they would have gotten their coupons and saved $40 on the converter. They still need to get their share of the money paid for the TV spectrum some other way.
That $1.3 billion is the amount that has been allocated to be spent. Last I read, less than half of that had actually been spent and the rest was tied up in coupons that had been requested but had neither been used, nor expired yet.
Federal regulators said Thursday they are going into 'search and rescue' mode to help the millions of consumers unprepared for the phased transition to digital television, which culminates with the June 12 transition deadline.
"Millions" of unprepared consumers? Seriously, the commercials warning about the transition have been playing several times an hour every day for the past 6 months or more (I was even getting them on Satellite TV, which is immune to the change) It's literally been impossible to avoi
by Anonymous Coward
on Friday March 06 2009, @09:04PM (#27101237)
Send taxpayer money to Chinese manufacturers of converter boxes; to accommodate the bandwidth auctions to major US telecom companies: who intend to soak customers to get their money back?
So, let's just get the effing show on the effing road, dudes,... I bought my DTV converter, with coupons, over a year ago, and still get a crappy signal because 5% of the numb-nuts put it off until the last minute,... So all the DTV stations around here only broadcast signals at 25% power. So hurry the frak up so the rest of us get a decent DTV signal!
Applied for my coupon the very first day they were available. Didn't get it until almost exactly a year ago.
"Sorry, we have no converters in stock yet"
Tried again. And again. And then again. Apparently, they'd arrive during the day, and be cleared out before I got off work every fucking time.
"No, sorry, you can't reserve one, sir."
Day before they expired in June 2008, I'm going place to place, trying to get one. Still none to be had.
So now, I've been waiting nine months for them to let me reapply. And the numbnuts in Congress waited to the last minute before the conversion to go, "Oh, yeah, those of you screwed by slow processing and then a lack of availability, maybe you should get a second chance, because our asinine expiration date fucked you out of 'em."
I keep seeing stories about this "shortage" and I think the problem is more with how the converters were distributed than a real shortage. The Circuit City where I live priced them at 70% off last weekend and they still had a mountain of them piled up on the floor. I would estimate there were 500+ stacked on the floor by the entrance, and still more on the shelves. I've been to several other cities in the US in the last couple of weeks and have seen them on store shelves also.
About 3 weeks ago, power was lost due to a storm. On the 2nd day of no power, I ran an extension cable from the TV to the my big UPS that still had energy remaining because I shut down the computers soon after the power went out (knowing it would be a while before it came back on). Nothing was coming through via Comcast. That could be because their lines were damaged in the storm, or their equipment was without power. I could get TV over the air from 2 stations, one in analog (which isn't anymore), and one in digital (because I could power my digital tuner from the UPS). People who have cable and no fallback means to receive TV in the event of a storm or accident that takes out the cable wiring or equipment is... unprepared.
At first I wasn't going to get a converter, because I am allergic to paying money for the privilege of watching commercials. But this is one of the reasons I relented.
I have to say I am surprised at the result. Even 60 miles from the transmitters with a modest antenna that gave me a very snowy signal on analog, I have twice as many channels and they are razor sharp. There have been a few transient artifacts but not the hopeless pile of random polygons I feared because of my marginal signal strength. I was very afraid the damn thing wouldn't work at all out here and I'd be stuck for the difference between the true cost and the coupon.
What happens to all those who applied for coupons in the early stage of the program -only to be told by local retailers that there was no stock available- and their coupons expired?
Keynesian theory suggests that private sector decisions can be non-optimal. I don't see how a move out of a government-controlled spectrum by a government-sponsored program fits into that.
I see a lot of crap in this "stimulus package" that is just an excuse to spend money the government thinks needs to be spent for any variety of reasons.
I am SO glad that our leaders are dealing with the important issues. I mean, it's not like we have a shitty economy or horrible foreign relations to worry about lately.
You're missing something with that logic. While most households do have cable/satellite, those can become useless in bad weather (lines breaking, dish swinging in the wind), not to mention random cable outages caused by careless people with backhoes, drivers running into poles, etc. Most sensible people, when asked "Do you want two coupons so that your two cable-equipped sets can continue to receive OTA TV if your cable goes out?" will say "Yes." without giving it a second thought. I'm surprised that the number of people requesting these is not closer to 100% of all TV households.
In a severe thunderstorm under a tornado watch? You bet your you-know-what I switch to OTA. A few extra seconds notice of approaching tornadoes can save your life.
Even though I have satellite, I am still very much affected by the DTV transition. For example, in my basement I have a traditional OTA TV that I rely on when there is stormy weather. Now, this wouldn't be a problem but A) I live in the midwest, where, in the spring and summer tornado warnings come out of nowhere and it is imperative I get watches/warnings along with radar so I can know if a tornado is about to strike. B) My satellite does not get great signal when it is storming outside.
So yes, even though I do not technically "need" a DTV converter box, I am seriously considering buying one for the news coverage during severe weather.
Yes, but I am the paranoid type that has to know EXACTLY where the hook echo is that they are talking about not that by worrying about it will I change anything but still.
Uhh, no. I have extended basic cable, and have all analog. They are going to move it to digital at some point (unrelated to the OTA digital, but IMHO they're using the confusion as a reason for switching). Actually, I have two Tivos that can use cable cards, so I guess technically I have a "digital converter box", but it's not being used for that.
(We can get 'free' boxes that will convert the equivalent of extended basic channels -- but that doesn't help S3 Tivos.)
Any such stories have been overshadowed by mass outages of jobs, mass outages of lending by banks, mass outages of investment in stocks, and mass outages of sanity in Congress.
Cause it worked so well before (Score:2, Funny)
People who already bought a converter (Score:3, Interesting)
So what happens with people that ended up paying full price for a converter because the coupons stopped flowing and 1/3 of the transition (which in many places was nearly a full transition) already happened? Can they just get $40 back with the coupon and their original paid-full-price receipt? Even if they got their full price converter at Circuit City?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If they had no problem buying it with their own money, why should they get a handout?
Then again, I'm a crazy liberal who thinks that the government should give to the poor, not the rich.
Re:People who already bought a converter (Score:5, Insightful)
If they had no problem buying it with their own money, why should they get a handout?
Then again, I'm a crazy liberal who thinks that the government should give to the poor, not the rich.
Well I'm a crazy [insert whatever] who wants to know why the hell we're giving handouts for TV for anybody! Nobody will die without American Idol.
Parent
Re:People who already bought a converter (Score:5, Insightful)
Bread and Circuses..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses [wikipedia.org]
Parent
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but you didn't buy a tv for them, they bought their own tv's. You bought them (a tiny fraction of) a tv converter box.
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But TV is the opiate for the masses! How can you govern an intelligent, reasoning populace? You can't give them drugs, so you give them free coupons for TV!
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
To reclaim the spectrum (the fcc auctioned off access to the reclaimed spectrum for more than the converter box program spent).
Broadcast stations got much of that spectrum for a song, but it isn't particularly ridiculous that some of the funds were spent on mitigating the impact of the switch.
Re: (Score:2)
They're doing it because they want the ability to revoke playback of recordings. It's necessary for the proper functioning of the Ministry of Truth.
Did you see the news the other night? Army kicking in peoples doors and stuff... that can't be real. That newscaster looked a bit freaked out when it was aired. Scared even. You didn't see it? Check it out,
Re: (Score:2)
Whoosh!
Read 1984 sometime.
Unlike most govt spending it's NOT a handout (Score:3, Insightful)
Well I'm a crazy [insert whatever] who wants to know why the hell we're giving handouts for TV for anybody! Nobody will die without American Idol.
It's not a handout. It's a (partial) reimbursement from the government to the previous users of the bandwidth for seizing the bandwidth and selling it for billions, which went into the treasury.
The analog television system worked just fine for what it did. A LOT of people bought equipment in the good faith expectation that it would continue to be usable for the
Re:People who already bought a converter (Score:5, Insightful)
The issue isn't about whether someone can get the money to pay for it. The issue is that the government is making a lot of money selling the spectrum, and part of it was to compensate people for the costs imposed on them.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
The issue isn't about whether someone can get the money to pay for it. The issue is that the government is making a lot of money selling the spectrum, and part of it was to compensate people for the costs imposed on them.
Who will immediately re-compensate the wireless providers who purchased that spectrum by paying higher prices. It's not like we're getting anything for free, you know.
Re: (Score:2)
We're talkiing about $2 Billion so far ($1.3 Billion for the first program, $650 Million now) - exactly how much did we get from the sale of the spectrum and didn't we already spend it elsewhere? I can't believe someone in Washington left $650 Million dollars lying on the table after they auctioned off the specturm...
That's not the Washington I knew!
Re: (Score:2)
LIBERTARIANS: LISTEN CAREFULLY (Score:5, Insightful)
LIBERTARIANS:
LISTEN CAREFULLY: The government made a NET GAIN on this transition.
They sold the spectrum reclaimed from analogue broadcasts for much more than this coupon program costs. It's not donating taxpayer money for TVs, it's compensating people for re-selling THEIR assets (radio spectrum) to private companies, something the government should be doing more often IMHO. And before anyone jumps up and down about how "people should be allowed to broadcast on any channel they choose", realise that no radio communication would work if that were the case - everyone would broadcast over everyone else, no-one would receive the signal they want, and it would be anarchy. There needs to be some authorisation for maintaining radio signals, and as bad as they are, the government are the only ones capable and willing (private enterprises don't have authority over one another, and no market force compels them to maintain the spectrum in the interests of the people).
Libertarians with mod points, moderate this post to oblivion if you want.
Parent
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So then the government should just give them a $40 or $80 check.
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I applied for the coupons around Xmas, got then early Jan, used them today.
Our CC closes Mar 8.
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The coupons expire after 90 days (I confirmed that on the dtv.gov page).. did you use expired coupons? and they worked?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The coupons expire after 90 days (I confirmed that on the dtv.gov page).. did you use expired coupons? and they worked?
He said he got them in "Early Jan". Even if he got them on January 1 (Assuming that he didn't mean January of a year other than 2009)it hasn't been 90 days.
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Sorry, brain fart time. I was mentally 'wrapping' around a year. I got mine early *last* year, so was thinking that was when he got them.
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I don't need the converter boxes (have cable), but got them in case of future need.
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Lots of people had to hurry up and buy right before Feb 17. If the coupons had been flowing as they should have been, they would have gotten their coupons and saved $40 on the converter. They still need to get their share of the money paid for the TV spectrum some other way.
Is it spent yet? (Score:3, Interesting)
That $1.3 billion is the amount that has been allocated to be spent. Last I read, less than half of that had actually been spent and the rest was tied up in coupons that had been requested but had neither been used, nor expired yet.
Tv went blank. (Score:4, Insightful)
And nothing of value was lost.
No sympathy (Score:2)
"Millions" of unprepared consumers? Seriously, the commercials warning about the transition have been playing several times an hour every day for the past 6 months or more (I was even getting them on Satellite TV, which is immune to the change) It's literally been impossible to avoi
I don't get it! (Score:3, Funny)
Send taxpayer money to Chinese manufacturers of converter boxes; to accommodate the bandwidth auctions to major US telecom companies: who intend to soak customers to get their money back?
Am I missing something???
Re: (Score:2)
You got it, exactly.
hurry it up, dude (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Applied for my coupon the very first day they were available. Didn't get it until almost exactly a year ago.
"Sorry, we have no converters in stock yet"
Tried again. And again. And then again. Apparently, they'd arrive during the day, and be cleared out before I got off work every fucking time.
"No, sorry, you can't reserve one, sir."
Day before they expired in June 2008, I'm going place to place, trying to get one. Still none to be had.
So now, I've been waiting nine months for them to let me reapply. And the numbnuts in Congress waited to the last minute before the conversion to go, "Oh, yeah, those of you screwed by slow processing and then a lack of availability, maybe you should get a second chance, because our asinine expiration date fucked you out of 'em."
I keep seeing stories about this "shortage" and I think the problem is more with how the converters were distributed than a real shortage. The Circuit City where I live priced them at 70% off last weekend and they still had a mountain of them piled up on the floor. I would estimate there were 500+ stacked on the floor by the entrance, and still more on the shelves. I've been to several other cities in the US in the last couple of weeks and have seen them on store shelves also.
Cable outage (Score:4, Informative)
About 3 weeks ago, power was lost due to a storm. On the 2nd day of no power, I ran an extension cable from the TV to the my big UPS that still had energy remaining because I shut down the computers soon after the power went out (knowing it would be a while before it came back on). Nothing was coming through via Comcast. That could be because their lines were damaged in the storm, or their equipment was without power. I could get TV over the air from 2 stations, one in analog (which isn't anymore), and one in digital (because I could power my digital tuner from the UPS). People who have cable and no fallback means to receive TV in the event of a storm or accident that takes out the cable wiring or equipment is ... unprepared.
Yes (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to say I am surprised at the result. Even 60 miles from the transmitters with a modest antenna that gave me a very snowy signal on analog, I have twice as many channels and they are razor sharp. There have been a few transient artifacts but not the hopeless pile of random polygons I feared because of my marginal signal strength. I was very afraid the damn thing wouldn't work at all out here and I'd be stuck for the difference between the true cost and the coupon.
Parent
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Does the word "radio" ring a bell?
Expired coupon holders? (Score:2)
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TFA syas that they're planning on making it possible to reapply. The DTV2009 site doesn't seem to have it as an option yet, though.
Stimulus package (Score:5, Insightful)
So, can someone explain what the DTV coupon program's funding has to do with stimulating the economy?
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The same way it has anything to do with studying the odor of pig excrement.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1509505/president_obama_addresses_nation_pork_pg6.html?cat=9 [associatedcontent.com]
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Keynesian theory suggests that private sector decisions can be non-optimal. I don't see how a move out of a government-controlled spectrum by a government-sponsored program fits into that.
I see a lot of crap in this "stimulus package" that is just an excuse to spend money the government thinks needs to be spent for any variety of reasons.
Bread and circus (Score:2, Insightful)
I am SO glad that our leaders are dealing with the important issues. I mean, it's not like we have a shitty economy or horrible foreign relations to worry about lately.
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Assuming absolutely 0% overhead, you'd be right.
Re:Doing the math (Score:4, Informative)
You're missing something with that logic. While most households do have cable/satellite, those can become useless in bad weather (lines breaking, dish swinging in the wind), not to mention random cable outages caused by careless people with backhoes, drivers running into poles, etc. Most sensible people, when asked "Do you want two coupons so that your two cable-equipped sets can continue to receive OTA TV if your cable goes out?" will say "Yes." without giving it a second thought. I'm surprised that the number of people requesting these is not closer to 100% of all TV households.
Parent
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Err... the post above you was missing something, rather. Clicked the wrong reply button. My bad.
Re:Doing the math (Score:4, Informative)
In a severe thunderstorm under a tornado watch? You bet your you-know-what I switch to OTA. A few extra seconds notice of approaching tornadoes can save your life.
Parent
Re:Doing the math (Score:5, Insightful)
So yes, even though I do not technically "need" a DTV converter box, I am seriously considering buying one for the news coverage during severe weather.
Parent
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I live in the Midwest, on a farm, on a hill. I find the tornado warnings on the radio quite adequate.
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Do you also have satellite internet? If not, I've found the "Graphical Forecasts" and CONUS products at weather.org to be *really* good.
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Uhh, no. I have extended basic cable, and have all analog. They are going to move it to digital at some point (unrelated to the OTA digital, but IMHO they're using the confusion as a reason for switching). Actually, I have two Tivos that can use cable cards, so I guess technically I have a "digital converter box", but it's not being used for that.
(We can get 'free' boxes that will convert the equivalent of extended basic channels -- but that doesn't help S3 Tivos.)
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Any such stories have been overshadowed by mass outages of jobs, mass outages of lending by banks, mass outages of investment in stocks, and mass outages of sanity in Congress.