How Comic Fans & Shops Are Stereotyped 387
brumgrunt writes "Why do TV shows, such as 30 Rock, The Simpsons, Heroes, and Everybody Loves Raymond, persist in so ferevently stereotyping comic book fans and stores? Den of Geek has pulled together eight examples, with video evidence to back them up ..." Minus one point for doubling up on Malcolm in the Middle. Plus 10 points for referencing Spaced, which I hope you all have seen.
Sad but true (Score:5, Insightful)
Human Nature (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly, I don't think there's a whole lot we can do about it.
The Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do TV shows, such as 30 Rock, The Simpsons, Heroes and Everyone Loves Raymond, persist in so ferevently [sic] stereotyping comic book fans and stores?
Well, the article didn't help me answering that question, it just illustrated the stereotype.
... even when they've become your boss. Other stereotypes hurt: i.e. "Math is hard."
... although perhaps there's not much to break down.
My guess would be (1) because it's funny and (2) even someone like myself who spent tons of time in a comic book store get a kick out of it. A lot of other stereotypes like hair brained teenage cheerleader will catch you a lot of criticism in the media. Those geeks you make fun of in high school? The ones that are hyper obsessive with social disorders that spend more time in their room reading than anywhere else? Those are the people running a lot of stuff today. So I guess it's ok to make fun of them all you want
I do wish this article had broken down the social stigma it has associated with it though
Mod Article -1 Whiner (Score:5, Insightful)
Folks get stereotyped on television? You don't say?
I've never seen athletes stereotyped as bumbling morons.
I have never seen good looking women stereotyped as airheads.
I have never seen Christians stereotyped as clueless and out of touch.
I have never seen factory workers stereotyped as beer guzzling, bowling addicted rubes.
I have never seen Southerners stereotyped as trailer trash.
I have never seen rich folks stereotyped as constantly stepping on and using others.
Comic book folks are the only ones stereotyped on TV. Call your congressman.
Not all stereotypes are wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
AFAIK, I'm still banned from the Laughing Dragon in Dallas because when I was 12 years old, I suggested that I liked DBZ better than Akira.
They are not "Comics" they are "Graphic Novels"! (Score:5, Insightful)
You insensitive clod!
Seriously though, attempting to legitimize them as "Graphic Novels" is just spin and makes you look more ridiculous. I will confess privately that I liked the original Hellboy comic (Note: notice no attempt to spin it as a "Graphic Novel"!) Its a comic.
Re:Human Nature (Score:3, Insightful)
It's even in our religions. On one level it helps build communities, on another level it causes wars!
Booyah!
Re:Human Nature (Score:5, Insightful)
Where stereotypes come from (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's say, hypothetically, that you walk into a comic book store. There are five people in there browsing comics. Four of those people are fairly normal looking folks who are just there to buy comics and leave. The fifth one is a large guy with poor hygiene who corners you and talks to you incessantly about whether or not Captain Kirk could have single-handedly taken out the Death Star, and seems oblivious to the not-so-subtle signals you're giving off as you try to back away.
Who are you going to remember? The four normal people, or the smelly dude who wouldn't leave you alone? Hell, *I* stereotype comic book geeks, and I *am* one. When I see them portrayed that way on TV, I usually get a laugh out of it, because I've met the exact sort of person they're portraying.
That said, I think the classic HOLY CRAP IT'S A HOT CHICK IN MY COMIC BOOK STORE thing is a bit overdone. There are plenty of hot chicks, my fiancee included, who like comics. (Oh yeah, there's another stereotype -- Slashdot readers are all single, right?)
a word about stereotypes (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Human Nature (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree with this. More often than not, it's an excuse or rationalization for war, not a cause. Generally, the cause are limited resources or desire for more land or expansion.
Religion is not evil any more than a rock is evil.
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:5, Insightful)
The frightening thing about this is, a court of law just got to decide that a comic book doesn't have serious literary or artistic value. The comic book in question is perfectly legal in other countries (it's available for sale in Japan). As far as we know, this guy has never molested children, doesn't have any desire to molest children, and finds the practice despicable. If he's a "prolific collector", one can assume that his primary reason for collecting manga is precisely the literary and artistic value that the court just ruled it doesn't have.
Because of this decision, a man who (as far as we know) isn't guilty of any other crime will now be branded a sex offender for life. In addition to sitting in jail until he reaches retirement age, when he gets out he'll have to find a place to live that isn't too close to a school, and he'll have to warn all his neighbors that it's not safe for him to be around their children.
Re:What about Captain Sweatpants ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sad but true (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I dunno. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:5, Insightful)
Were any child exploited in creating the cartoon? No. So how exactly is it "exploitation"?
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ehemm... (Score:3, Insightful)
This received three replies.
All three - independently - quoted the same Simpsons character, with an identical one 'word' catchphrase.
There is SOMETHING that can be stereotyped!
The big bang theory. (Score:4, Insightful)
That show completely makes the point that this guy misses. The male leads on this show are all completely stereotyped. They're completely nerdy and totally bonkers about comic books. And who cares? I don't. I think the show is funny. It does throw some of the stereotypes to the wind (some of the characters do get laid), but otherwise I like it for the fact that it makes fun of nerdy/geeky/whatever-your-favourite-label-is people, in a way that doesn't degrade them.
What a bunch of whiny idiosyncratic losers we are if we fail to laugh at ourselves once in a while... Go watch a Chris Rock standup or something, realize that sometimes laughing at your own stereotypes can be a good thing. Maybe if you stop bitching about it, people would like you more.
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:5, Insightful)
Typical Hypocrisy (Score:5, Insightful)
Child exploitation depicted in Manga is no more ok than person on person violence depicted in literally any TV show is. The fact is that in the United States we get very crazy about certain types of inhuman, unethical or immoral behavior and totally ignore others.
Since I'm not willing to ban the depiction of all human violence, I find it unethical to ban the depiction of (however monstrous) human lust. How about you? Do you feel that the depiction or examination of a depiction of any immoral act is cause for legal recourse?
Re:Typical Hypocrisy (Score:5, Insightful)
In short; it doesn't. If there is some marker that, logically, makes a thing unethical, then it's reasonable to make rules against it. But right now we deal with the difference between sex and violence like we used to deal with the difference in races; sure, one is sex and the other is just violence, and it happens that we're comfortable with violence, but not sex. But how much of that comfort is the result of exposure, and not the supposed underlying 'betterness' of it? Arguably, depiction of sex ought to be more acceptable, as it has little to do, in general, with hurting people - something that is clearly unethical.
If there was a good case to be made against the depiction of child molestation (and, given that it's a real problem, I'm not sure there is), then one might make policy against it. One might also make policy if it is decided that increasing the exposure to such things encourages it - but if that is the case, then we ought to seriously examine violence. And greed. And a host of other human sins that we readily portray, even glorify, but have no policy against.
But then, I come from a stance wherein I think that the safety of civilization comes from it's consistency in treatment of citizens. Inconsistency leads to injustice, which in turn spawns injustice - because if you can't count on the system to protect you, how can the system count on you to support it?
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:5, Insightful)
How is drawing a child being abused any worse than imagining a child being abused? This feels very close to a thoughtcrime to me.
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:1, Insightful)
So, how exactly does one prove a comic character is underage?
Couldn't they duck through the law by just saying something like "she has a rare genetic disease, and looks N years younger than she actually is"?
Re:The Answer (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:2, Insightful)
This is a contest of POWER, not cleverness.
"Grasshopper ALWAYS wrong, in argument with Chicken"
-- Lao Shoe
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:4, Insightful)
The frightening thing about this is, a court of law just got to decide that a comic book doesn't have serious literary or artistic value.
He plead guilty. The courts didn't decide anything. He really should have stuck with it, as this law is clearly unconstitutional and needs to be overturned by the courts. It's a real shame that prosecutors are able to use trumped up charges as a bludgeon to dissuade people from exercising their constitutional right to a trial. Plea bargaining ought to be abolished.
Ah, quite right, thanks for the correction.
A court of law could have decided this, and there's a good chance they might have decided against him and his punishment would have been even worse than this. On top of that he would have had to spend massive piles of money he doesn't have, to pay for his defense, regardless of whether he won or lost.
Re:What about Captain Sweatpants ? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm a nerd, and have been since I was a teen. I also played sports during my high school years and beyond. I still enjoy watching sports (well.. up until yesterday when the season ended for my team), and I still enjoy watching anime and reading comics. It's possible to be involved in sports (as a fan or participant) as well as have an interest in nerdly delights. Perhaps some balance would be a good thing to have instead of a drastic pull to one extreme or the other.
Re:In my expereince 50% (Score:5, Insightful)
Roughly half of the people I know who are big comic book fans fall into the stereotype. But the half that don't are pretty normal successful people, they don't need anyone's pity for a stereotype they don't fit. I, myself, just think comic books suck.
Saying "comic books suck" makes about as much sense to me as saying "music is stupid".
Comic books are not a genre, they are a vehicle for artistic expression, just like film, poetry, dance, sculpture, etc.
I don't care for most of the poetry I've encountered, and there's a lot of poetry out there that does absolutely nothing for me. (This fact saved me a lot of time when reading Tolkein's Lord of the Rings trilogy.) That said, I wouldn't say "poetry sucks". If I couldn't find at least some poems I liked, it would be an indicator that I wasn't a very broad-minded person. Give any art form a chance, and odds are a few brilliant artists out there will connect with you.
Re:What about Captain Sweatpants ? (Score:3, Insightful)
A hobbiest mechanic never grew up from playing with cars.
A sports enthusiast never grew up from childhood games.
A comic book reader never grew up from reading children's stories.
An anime enthusiast never grew up from watching cartoons.
A fashionista never grew up from playing dress up...
What makes our hobbies worthwhile and really keeps us interested is the rules get more difficult as we mature and are able to invest more time, skill, thought, and money into what we do. So all those people really did grow up. All those hobbies became adult hobbies with more complex rules and better pieces to play with.
Positives, too (Score:3, Insightful)
Having a wife, I am sometimes forced to watch shows like Bravo's Millionaire Matchmaker. In one episode, she tells the eager young women that one of the best places to pick up wealthy, unattached men is at comics conventions. I was a little surprised to hear it, but her logic made sense.
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:4, Insightful)
odds are that if someone has a collection of images of child abuse (drawn or not) then they're a sex offender or a potential sex offender.
And what if someone has a large collection of Japanese comic books, and a few of them happen to contain drawn images of child abuse? What does that make them?
What if someone has a large collection of novels, and some of them happen to describe child abuse?
Eye of the Beholder (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet somehow Moby Dick is considered to have literary value.
What about the Harry Potter books. They're wildly successful. What about Batman: Year One or The Dark Knight Returns? They're certainly a good read. They're certainly worthy of being in a collection. Does that make them of literary value? Or are they no longer considered literature when they're comics?
The whole "having value" concept is flawed. The Canadian government payed almost $2million a while back for "Voice of Fire", a five metre tall piece of blue canvas with a red stripe down the middle. What "value" does that have? It's all in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
Re:Sad but true (Score:3, Insightful)
Stereotypes persist because they are based in truth.
Ugly, hilarious truth.
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:3, Insightful)
So why are the Saw movies legal?
According to your argument, anyone who enjoys them must be a likely serial killer.
Re:In my expereince 50% (Score:4, Insightful)
Meanwhile, most of the rest of the world will say something sucks when most of the things that make up that something suck.
For example, I have said "television sucks" not because I think all television shows suck, or there is something inherently wrong with the medium. I said it because I think 99% of the shows on television are complete drivel, cater to the lowest common denominator, and glorify the damaged parts of society.
It's just a generalization, it is not meant to hold up in 100% of cases. I don't think it indicates narrow mindedness. It indicates loose use of language as is common everywhere.
Re:How About Typing Comics Fans as Sex Offenders? (Score:3, Insightful)