Impy the Impiuos Imp writes "Sony is apparently merging out of existence half its Star Wars: Galaxies servers. In spite of a number of innovative features (three health bars, choreograph-able dancing, music you can coordinate between several players, 'your own R2 unit and 3PO,' programmable droids, and so on), a complete overhaul of the combat system, designed to simplify it and make it more action-oriented, actually drove away more people than it attracted. It soon thereafter retired to that great, Sony one-fee-for-all stable of aging and also-rans in the sky. Still on life support, it was preceded in death by Sony foster brother The Matrix Online."
To save other not-quite-geek-enoughs from googling:
Star Wars Galaxies (abbv. SWG) is a Star Wars themed MMORPG (online computer game) for Microsoft Windows developed by Sony Online Entertainment and published by LucasArts.
I played the game at launch... and 3 life bars is about right. If your health, action, or mind bar went below 0 you died and had to reload your clone.
All 3 bars regenerated based on your stats, but you used action and mind points to perform specific actions... oh, those bars could also be damaged directly by other players (in PvP) or specific mobs.
Even better, you needed other players to get rid of any "permanent" damage you took to said bars, which filled part of those bars with black.
So essentially you had health, mana and endurance? Gee, now that's new. Or at least was, around 1990 before MUDs came into existance.
Lets face it, what else is there?
Even if someone comes out with a game that calls them something completely different (indeed, as SWG did) we're still going to associate them with what we already know. Besides, these are easily identifiable and understood by most game players now.. why confuse things?
Even to knew players, anyone who understands the concept of the words "health" and "endurance" and pretty quickly figure out how they relate to their character.
You don't release a game and then change everything about it. Add content and features, sure. But you never drastically change the game. People start to feel like they don't "know" the game and leave. You aren't going to attract new customers by touting something like "new improved attack system". They don't know about the old one so they can't judge how much better it is. And the people that don't like the changes will spread their opinions that it sucks.
Get it right before you release it or deal with the consequences.
You don't release a game and then change everything about it.
You clearly haven't played Star Wars Galaxies. That thing was a fucking cultural black hole. It needed to be plugged before we lost something important.
Sony: ok, it was a bit harsh to make Jedis randomly, so... let's make it so that everyone can roll a Jedi, no more randomness. Players: You WHAT? I rerolled a hundred times / paid $insane_amount on EBay for my Jedi! Fu.. you (ragequits)
Sony: Ok, but to make Jedis at least halfway balanced, we install permadeath. So, a Jedi dies, he's dead for good. Players: You WHAT? Can't do that, your servers are stable like a pig on stilts, and your GM said he won't revive me for
You don't release a game and then change everything about it.
You do if basically EVERYONE playing your game is asking that you do in fact change them. As a player, I wanted them to overhaul the combat system so that it actually promoted grouping with other players. That's the general consensus of everyone that played it. The downside was that while they did overhaul it, they totally repeated the same thing and made it ungroupable.
I'm going to have to disagree here. Drastic changes were very much needed. The problem is they tried to do totally new things inside the framework of their existing engine to save money. They basically tried to tack semi FPS gameplay onto a client that very much did not support it. Then on top of that the changes they wanted to make just sucked. If they had spent a bit more money on it and not tried to do stuff that was obviously stupid it would of worked fine.
The NGE was the worst ever 'patch'. It was designed to make the game console friendly. Sony had a player base that was using PCs and basically said fuck you guys were simplifying the game so that it's so boring you'll leave. It worked, I left and everyone I played with left.
Actually, that seems to be like exactly the kind of move that will drive players away, no matter how it's done.
See, it's not just whether the turning to FPS is well done or (as was the case) crap done. It's that it turns the game into a whole other genre than I signed for.
If I wanted to play a FPS, I would be playing one of the many FPS-es without an online fee. It's not like people were sitting going, "man, I'd so play a FPS, but I have no clue where to get one. If only Sony could turn one of their game into a FPS..."
Then there were changes like that to the skill system. Honestly, when you hear someone rant about how great the old SWG was, _the_ thing that invariably comes up is the skill system. There were a lot of people who basically put up with its many other sins, just because it was the only one which didn't force them into the mould of a pre-defined class.
So then Sony comes and throws exactly that away.
It doesn't really matter inside which framework you do something like that. It's going to piss people off.
Then there were the changes to the characters. Everyone had their own combination that they played because genuinely that was what they liked to play, and they had spent months tweaking them to exactly their taste, collecting gear, etc. Then suddenly that combination isn't even available any more. I'm not talking just "nerfed" or "changed", but, really, whatever combination you were playing, chances are there wasn't any close equivalent available after the NGE. For some, like animal handlers, there was nothing that even played similarly after the change.
For those without SWG experience: Imagine if Blizzard one day and said basically, "nah, hybrid and pet classes are now out, they're too complicated for you lot. And you've been bitching about specs and your guild making you respec since we first added raid dungeons, so we're throwing those out too. So from effective now, we'll only have the classes: fighter, archer, cleric and thief. (Which incidentally don't play like warrior, hunter, priest and rogue either.) With a fixed progression of a abilities. If you were playing a paladin or druid, sucks to be you, you get to choose one or the other, not be that jack of all trades crap."
"Oh, and what's that crap about being a warrior _and_ a blacksmith? Can't you just make up your mind? From now on, you can be a fighting class or you can be a trade class, not both. The traders won't even have a combat level, but we'll make all monsters ignore them."
Also imagine that it wasn't an April Fools post.
I'm willing to bet that three quarters of their population would cancel their subscription over such a drastic change. Which is what happened to SWG.
They drastically changed things roughly 2.5 months after launch.
Then, they had the big wide ranging change about a year after that.
In both cases, the game changed beyond recognition.
I left after the 2.5 months after launch change. The game was buggy before and buggy after. Link deaths when changing server zones, pets getting stuck at server zone area changes, aggro mobs and NPCs in city zones killing unsuspecting newbs, etc.
Plus, I am strictly a player vs. environment person, I hate player vs. player gaming
You don't release a game and then change everything about it. Add content and features, sure. But you never drastically change the game. People start to feel like they don't "know" the game and leave. You aren't going to attract new customers by touting something like "new improved attack system". They don't know about the old one so they can't judge how much better it is. And the people that don't like the changes will spread their opinions that it sucks.
That's the problem with MMO's. If I buy Knights of the Old Republic and love it, I might resent changes in Knights of the Old Republic 2. If so, I can just stick with the old game. But that's not the case with MMO's, you're stuck with the upgrade. I don't really see how this will change.
It's actually kind of funny how chaotically divergent the reactions can be to elements within a game. When the game launches there's no debate, it is what it is and people experience it together for the first time, warts and
Good job trying to be clever with the title and summary, but which is it!?!? "Encased in carbonite" or "out of existence?" Man, that's as bas as CNN anchor Kyra Phillips saying that a dancing Imperial stormtrooper looked like it needed some WD-40 the other day, as if stormtroopers are robots or something. Blasphemy. Now I'm angry.
Umm, you do realize that they wear armor, right? I mean they're not exactly cloned to have the white shell, hence the WD-40. Or are you offended, because clearly the system is self lubricating for easy use in desert conditions?
WD-40 is for metal. Maybe it's just me, but I sort of assumed that Stormtroopers used some sort of futuristic material instead of plain old metal that can get rusty. I think it's more likely that the journalist involved merely thought "armor = rusty" in a supreme leap of mental logic, either that or she's never seen Star Wars and thinks that Stormtroopers are Nazis.
mod parent up, i came in search of servers actually being encased in carbonite (which would be very impressive due real carbonite being an explosive) and was thoroughly disappointed!
Sony is shutting down half the servers. One half, leaving approximately one other half. This is actually good for everybody. The remaining players will actually get to play with other people, the whole point of MMOs I'm told. In addition Sony gets to spend less money supporting the game which is good for them.
Oh yeah, we get to rail on Galaxies. That's good too.
Galaxies is hardly the first MMO to shut down/merge servers and keep in business. Others have done it more gradually perhaps, but they went from 200k subscribers to probably 100k and didn't close half the servers for a long time, and as anticipation builds for Star Wars TOR they're going to have a churn of people - but they're probably seeing the eventual need to be down around 50 or 60k subscribers, if not outright close. Whatever one may think of the NGE (cough disaster cough), their technology was neve
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday September 17, @01:25AM (#29450979)
The combat system in Star Wars: Galaxies was actually completely revamped twice. The first revamp, called the CU (Combat Upgrade) went over somewhat okay. It resolved a few of the problems that the original system had, and it held a lot of promise. There were two major problems with the CU, though... One, it was just as buggy and unfinished as the system it replaced, and two Sony made almost zero effort to finish, improve, or troubleshoot the CU. The result was that even after several years into the game's launch, the core gaming system was still plagued with bugs, imbalances, half-finished ideas, and an odd mix of non-aesthetically matching game systems. Sony "solution" to all this was to simply redo the entire combat system again, this time calling it the NGE (New Game Experience). The problem with the NGE, though, was that like the CU before it, it was buggy and unfinished. At was it this point that the mass exodus of players began. Sony had already proven twice in a row that they had zero ability to actually finish and troubleshoot a combat system, and a large chunk of the playerbase decided that the NGE would be no exception. Sony also did a terrible job managing the transition from each system to the next. As in any MMO, loot, achievements, and other acquired goals/recourses play a major role in defining a player's sense of accomplishment in the game. Prior to each revamp, Sony promised that all of a players loot and achievements would be converted to something of equal usefulness in the next system. This ultimately proved to be nothing but a lie. All manner of loot and quest rewards were transformed into junk. Many players literally had months of effort wiped away in a single day. And this happened not once, but twice! The downfall of Star Wars: Galaxies was predicted from the moment the NGE was first announced. Sony ignored their playerbase when the game was launched, they ignored them when they introduced the CU, and they ignored them when they launched the NGE. It should come as zero surprise to them that their now former playerbase decided to ignore them back.
Before anyone starts snarking on the NGE and what it did to the game, let me start by noting I was there at release (day 2, since no one could log in on day 1), I was there during the CU, and I was there for the horrid NGE experience (just after my birthday too, sigh). I know all about the old game, and the stages it went through after that. The NGE was a horrid idea, pretty much the poster child for how *not* to make changes to your MMO. The person who promulgated it should have been taken outside and shot
I've read some comments here that are just flat out not true about the current state of the NGE Game (I refuse to call the current iteration "Star Wars Galaxies", that game died in 2005, the NGE resembles it only graphically). If you are interested in Star Wars Galaxies, visit the emulator site (www.swgemu.com).
First off, closing 12 of 25 servers is still going to leave a bunch of empty servers, they might have enough players left to support 4-5 at most, 13 is still ridiculous. I laugh at those who say th
I have nothing against SW: Galaxies, but I'm glad to see it failing. If only because Sony owns it.
I hope anything and everything that Sony touches fails miserably. They deserve it.
I disagree.
When I was a kid I enjoyed my Walkman, the Trinitron was great albeit a bit heavy. And EverQuest was quite spectacular for it's time.
They are not really doing this, its just a slashdot mind trick. I suddenly felt that millions of voices yelled out and then were suddenly silenced or someth...... NO CARRIER
I suddenly felt that millions of voices yelled out and then were suddenly silenced or someth...... NO CARRIER
Y'know, I'm starting to wonder what is the minimum age required to understand the "NO CARRIER" reference. What age does the average person have to be to have never experienced the "NO CARRIER" phenomenon?
Additionally, what's the min age to have actually used a real vt100, 3270 or 5250 and not an emulated one via export TERM=vt100...?
SWG was my first MMORPG. Still remember my first day well. And largely my only day as I lost interest very quick, but it was so cool to walk out into this living Star Wars world.
Innovative features (Score:4, Insightful)
I laughed out loud at "three health bars". Thank you for making my day, Impy.
Re:Innovative features (Score:5, Funny)
In a move borrowed from Gilette, Sony will relaunch as Star Wars Galaxies 2 with five health bars.
Parent
WTF is Star Wars: Galaxies ? (Score:3, Informative)
To save other not-quite-geek-enoughs from googling:
Star Wars Galaxies (abbv. SWG) is a Star Wars themed MMORPG (online computer game) for Microsoft Windows developed by Sony Online Entertainment and published by LucasArts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies [wikipedia.org]
(isn't this the job of the TFS?)
Re: (Score:2)
Managed by Aloebi-won Kenobi
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
That's nothing MY health bar has five bars AND VIBRATES!
Re:Innovative features (Score:5, Informative)
I played the game at launch... and 3 life bars is about right. If your health, action, or mind bar went below 0 you died and had to reload your clone.
All 3 bars regenerated based on your stats, but you used action and mind points to perform specific actions... oh, those bars could also be damaged directly by other players (in PvP) or specific mobs.
Even better, you needed other players to get rid of any "permanent" damage you took to said bars, which filled part of those bars with black.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
So essentially you had health, mana and endurance? Gee, now that's new. Or at least was, around 1990 before MUDs came into existance.
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So essentially you had health, mana and endurance? Gee, now that's new. Or at least was, around 1990 before MUDs came into existance.
Lets face it, what else is there?
Even if someone comes out with a game that calls them something completely different (indeed, as SWG did) we're still going to associate them with what we already know. Besides, these are easily identifiable and understood by most game players now.. why confuse things?
Even to knew players, anyone who understands the concept of the words "health" and "endurance" and pretty quickly figure out how they relate to their character.
SWG at least did something slightly different wit
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
but in what other game could running out of mana kill you?
Star Ocean. Which is infuriating when you're at a low level and resurrection items are damned expensive, but not such a problem later in the game.
When will they get it??? (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't release a game and then change everything about it. Add content and features, sure. But you never drastically change the game. People start to feel like they don't "know" the game and leave. You aren't going to attract new customers by touting something like "new improved attack system". They don't know about the old one so they can't judge how much better it is. And the people that don't like the changes will spread their opinions that it sucks.
Get it right before you release it or deal with the consequences.
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You don't release a game and then change everything about it.
You clearly haven't played Star Wars Galaxies. That thing was a fucking cultural black hole. It needed to be plugged before we lost something important.
Re: (Score:2)
I think he's refering to the Jedi changes.
Sony: ok, it was a bit harsh to make Jedis randomly, so ... let's make it so that everyone can roll a Jedi, no more randomness.
Players: You WHAT? I rerolled a hundred times / paid $insane_amount on EBay for my Jedi! Fu.. you (ragequits)
Sony: Ok, but to make Jedis at least halfway balanced, we install permadeath. So, a Jedi dies, he's dead for good.
Players: You WHAT? Can't do that, your servers are stable like a pig on stilts, and your GM said he won't revive me for
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You don't release a game and then change everything about it.
You do if basically EVERYONE playing your game is asking that you do in fact change them. As a player, I wanted them to overhaul the combat system so that it actually promoted grouping with other players. That's the general consensus of everyone that played it. The downside was that while they did overhaul it, they totally repeated the same thing and made it ungroupable.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Just overhauling the combat system would have been reasonable, but they also scrapped the skill system that made the game unique.
Re:When will they get it??? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm going to have to disagree here. Drastic changes were very much needed. The problem is they tried to do totally new things inside the framework of their existing engine to save money. They basically tried to tack semi FPS gameplay onto a client that very much did not support it. Then on top of that the changes they wanted to make just sucked. If they had spent a bit more money on it and not tried to do stuff that was obviously stupid it would of worked fine.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, that's exactly why I'll disagree (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, that seems to be like exactly the kind of move that will drive players away, no matter how it's done.
See, it's not just whether the turning to FPS is well done or (as was the case) crap done. It's that it turns the game into a whole other genre than I signed for.
If I wanted to play a FPS, I would be playing one of the many FPS-es without an online fee. It's not like people were sitting going, "man, I'd so play a FPS, but I have no clue where to get one. If only Sony could turn one of their game into a FPS..."
Then there were changes like that to the skill system. Honestly, when you hear someone rant about how great the old SWG was, _the_ thing that invariably comes up is the skill system. There were a lot of people who basically put up with its many other sins, just because it was the only one which didn't force them into the mould of a pre-defined class.
So then Sony comes and throws exactly that away.
It doesn't really matter inside which framework you do something like that. It's going to piss people off.
Then there were the changes to the characters. Everyone had their own combination that they played because genuinely that was what they liked to play, and they had spent months tweaking them to exactly their taste, collecting gear, etc. Then suddenly that combination isn't even available any more. I'm not talking just "nerfed" or "changed", but, really, whatever combination you were playing, chances are there wasn't any close equivalent available after the NGE. For some, like animal handlers, there was nothing that even played similarly after the change.
For those without SWG experience: Imagine if Blizzard one day and said basically, "nah, hybrid and pet classes are now out, they're too complicated for you lot. And you've been bitching about specs and your guild making you respec since we first added raid dungeons, so we're throwing those out too. So from effective now, we'll only have the classes: fighter, archer, cleric and thief. (Which incidentally don't play like warrior, hunter, priest and rogue either.) With a fixed progression of a abilities. If you were playing a paladin or druid, sucks to be you, you get to choose one or the other, not be that jack of all trades crap."
"Oh, and what's that crap about being a warrior _and_ a blacksmith? Can't you just make up your mind? From now on, you can be a fighting class or you can be a trade class, not both. The traders won't even have a combat level, but we'll make all monsters ignore them."
Also imagine that it wasn't an April Fools post.
I'm willing to bet that three quarters of their population would cancel their subscription over such a drastic change. Which is what happened to SWG.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
They drastically changed things roughly 2.5 months after launch.
Then, they had the big wide ranging change about a year after that.
In both cases, the game changed beyond recognition.
I left after the 2.5 months after launch change. The game was buggy before and buggy after. Link deaths when changing server zones, pets getting stuck at server zone area changes, aggro mobs and NPCs in city zones killing unsuspecting newbs, etc.
Plus, I am strictly a player vs. environment person, I hate player vs. player gaming
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Mr. cyberjock1980? George Lucas is on line one for you.
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You don't release a game and then change everything about it. Add content and features, sure. But you never drastically change the game. People start to feel like they don't "know" the game and leave. You aren't going to attract new customers by touting something like "new improved attack system". They don't know about the old one so they can't judge how much better it is. And the people that don't like the changes will spread their opinions that it sucks.
That's the problem with MMO's. If I buy Knights of the Old Republic and love it, I might resent changes in Knights of the Old Republic 2. If so, I can just stick with the old game. But that's not the case with MMO's, you're stuck with the upgrade. I don't really see how this will change.
It's actually kind of funny how chaotically divergent the reactions can be to elements within a game. When the game launches there's no debate, it is what it is and people experience it together for the first time, warts and
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Only if they had a compelling environment, interesting characters, but extremely unfortunate dialogue.
May it (Score:2, Interesting)
rot in hell! They ruined what was a great game and alienated most of the existing player base. I am surprised it lasted this long.
Which is it? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re: (Score:2, Troll)
WD-40 is not for rust or lubrication, it's for loosening stuck bolts or parts. It's not a general purpose oil and will evaporate in short order. RTFC
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Mike Godwin is applauding you sir.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It's not so much blasphemy, as the title wasn't quite obviously a joke.
That is: It would have been amazing if someone had actually decided to go and encase those servers. That's the story I want to see.
As it is, they're probably not either -- probably simply being repurposed.
mod parent up (Score:2)
mod parent up, i came in search of servers actually being encased in carbonite (which would be very impressive due real carbonite being an explosive) and was thoroughly disappointed!
Re: (Score:2)
As it is, they're probably not either -- probably simply being repurposed.
Or thrown into the trash compactor.
A foot in the grave but not dead (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
hardly the firts (Score:2)
Galaxies is hardly the first MMO to shut down/merge servers and keep in business. Others have done it more gradually perhaps, but they went from 200k subscribers to probably 100k and didn't close half the servers for a long time, and as anticipation builds for Star Wars TOR they're going to have a churn of people - but they're probably seeing the eventual need to be down around 50 or 60k subscribers, if not outright close. Whatever one may think of the NGE (cough disaster cough), their technology was neve
Sony drove the game into the ground (Score:5, Informative)
The combat system in Star Wars: Galaxies was actually completely revamped twice. The first revamp, called the CU (Combat Upgrade) went over somewhat okay. It resolved a few of the problems that the original system had, and it held a lot of promise. There were two major problems with the CU, though... One, it was just as buggy and unfinished as the system it replaced, and two Sony made almost zero effort to finish, improve, or troubleshoot the CU. The result was that even after several years into the game's launch, the core gaming system was still plagued with bugs, imbalances, half-finished ideas, and an odd mix of non-aesthetically matching game systems. Sony "solution" to all this was to simply redo the entire combat system again, this time calling it the NGE (New Game Experience). The problem with the NGE, though, was that like the CU before it, it was buggy and unfinished. At was it this point that the mass exodus of players began. Sony had already proven twice in a row that they had zero ability to actually finish and troubleshoot a combat system, and a large chunk of the playerbase decided that the NGE would be no exception. Sony also did a terrible job managing the transition from each system to the next. As in any MMO, loot, achievements, and other acquired goals/recourses play a major role in defining a player's sense of accomplishment in the game. Prior to each revamp, Sony promised that all of a players loot and achievements would be converted to something of equal usefulness in the next system. This ultimately proved to be nothing but a lie. All manner of loot and quest rewards were transformed into junk. Many players literally had months of effort wiped away in a single day. And this happened not once, but twice! The downfall of Star Wars: Galaxies was predicted from the moment the NGE was first announced. Sony ignored their playerbase when the game was launched, they ignored them when they introduced the CU, and they ignored them when they launched the NGE. It should come as zero surprise to them that their now former playerbase decided to ignore them back.
The Game is still Kicking! (Score:2, Interesting)
Before anyone starts snarking on the NGE and what it did to the game, let me start by noting I was there at release (day 2, since no one could log in on day 1), I was there during the CU, and I was there for the horrid NGE experience (just after my birthday too, sigh). I know all about the old game, and the stages it went through after that.
The NGE was a horrid idea, pretty much the poster child for how *not* to make changes to your MMO. The person who promulgated it should have been taken outside and shot
It was like... (Score:2)
WTF (Score:2)
Watch out for NGE fanboi astroturfers here... (Score:2)
I've read some comments here that are just flat out not true about the current state of the NGE Game (I refuse to call the current iteration "Star Wars Galaxies", that game died in 2005, the NGE resembles it only graphically). If you are interested in Star Wars Galaxies, visit the emulator site (www.swgemu.com).
First off, closing 12 of 25 servers is still going to leave a bunch of empty servers, they might have enough players left to support 4-5 at most, 13 is still ridiculous. I laugh at those who say th
Re:Good (Score:4, Interesting)
I have nothing against SW: Galaxies, but I'm glad to see it failing. If only because Sony owns it. I hope anything and everything that Sony touches fails miserably. They deserve it.
I disagree.
When I was a kid I enjoyed my Walkman, the Trinitron was great albeit a bit heavy. And EverQuest was quite spectacular for it's time.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
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Re: (Score:2, Informative)
They are not really doing this, its just a slashdot mind trick. I suddenly felt that millions of voices yelled out and then were suddenly silenced or someth...... NO CARRIER
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I suddenly felt that millions of voices yelled out and then were suddenly silenced or someth...... NO CARRIER
Y'know, I'm starting to wonder what is the minimum age required to understand the "NO CARRIER" reference. What age does the average person have to be to have never experienced the "NO CARRIER" phenomenon?
Additionally, what's the min age to have actually used a real vt100, 3270 or 5250 and not an emulated one via export TERM=vt100...?
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I'm 26, and have never experienced it. That does not mean that I don't understand it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I'm 28, and I have.. So we've got that narrowed down pretty solidly.
Re:Brillant! (Score:4, Funny)
You can easily judge by telling this old joke:
"What do net addicts and navy pilots have in common? Both freak out when their display shows them NO CARRIER."
If they laugh, they're old enough.
Parent
Re:Brillant! (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
SWG was my first MMORPG. Still remember my first day well. And largely my only day as I lost interest very quick, but it was so cool to walk out into this living Star Wars world.