The First High-Definition TV, Circa 1958 222
An anonymous reader sends us to Gizmag for a look at a recent auction of a large collection of antique TVs. The star of the show was the Teleavia type P111, one of the earliest examples of high-definition TV. This rare 1958 console-stand television was designed by Flaminio Bertroni, who was also responsible for the iconic Citroen DS. The TV featured dual resolution capability, with the higher setting offering better resolution than 720p — 819 lines. This early attempt at a high-def standard, originating in France in 1949, didn't catch on in the marketplace.
Summary is wrong, not higher res that 720p (Score:5, Informative)
The TV featured dual resolution capability, with the higher setting offering better resolution than 720p â" 819 lines.
Nice try, but "by today's standards, it could be called 737i with a maximum theoretical resolution of 816x737 pixels with a 4:3 aspect ratio (10Mhz * 40.8 / 1000 *2 = 816)" Now compare this to the 720p standard which is 1280x720 pixels and a much higher resolution.
Re:Summary is wrong, not higher res that 720p (Score:1, Informative)
Also, it's interlaced (the i in 737i), not progressive. And black-and-white. And it did catch on - France used it from the 40s to the 80s. Calling it HDTV is dumb - it had a few more lines than the 625-line system. Which in turn had more lines than the American 525-line system. Which in turn had more lines than the British 405-line system.
Re:Summary is wrong, not higher res that 720p (Score:5, Informative)
This is wrong, not insightful. The horizontal resolution is restricted by the video bandwidth. The 819-line system had up to 10MHz of video bandwidth. That translates to ~488 cycles per line (bandwidth / (lines + frame rate)). Some of that is wasted on blanking and sync (the 625-line system "wastes" 12us out of 64us per line). Correct digitization requires at least 2 pixels per cycle, so that translates to a horizontal resolution of ~800 pixels, no matter what aspect ratio. 720p is 1280 pixels wide.
Re:Summary is wrong, not higher res that 720p (Score:4, Informative)
Also in analog connected picture displays such as CRT TV sets, the horizontal scanlines are not divided into pixels, and therefore the horizontal resolution is related to the bandwidth of the luminance and chroma signals. For television, the analog bandwidth for luminance in standard definition can vary from 3 MHz (approximately 330 lines edge-to-edge; VHS) to 4.2 MHz (440 lines; live analog tv) up to 7 MHz (660 lines; DVD). In high definition the bandwidth is 37 MHz (720p/1080i) or 74 MHz (1080p/60).
Even a hypothetical widescreen System E (the 819 line French system) would not be as high resolution as 720p due to its relatively limited 10MHz analog bandwidth.
It *did* catch on (Score:1, Informative)
Before the deployment of color, B&W TV in France was broadcast in 819 lines.
The French always had their own (superior) TV standard.
When they did deploy color TV, it was the SECAM system, which used
625 lines (like PAL), but had a much better system for color encoding
(though the TV sets were more expensive initially).
Easy in B/W. Harder in color. (Score:5, Informative)
It's not that hard to do high-definition monochrome TV. You just need to crank up the horizontal sweep rate and use higher-bandwidth amplifiers. Color, though, requires more holes in the shadow mask or stripes on the screen, and the alignment tolerances are tighter.
France had 819-line monochrome broadcast TV in the 1950s. But with the transition to color around 1960, Europe went to a uniform 625 lines. Kind of sad, but making special color TV tubes for France just wasn't worth the trouble.
Re:And how far we have not come (Score:3, Informative)
Funny Fact: none of those was actually able to display that resolution. Scanning, yes. But the pitch of the dot/grill mask was not sufficient.
-> "build in" antialiasing/blur filtering.
The "real" resolution of those monitors was usually at least 30% lower than the maximum supported one. everything above just pushed beyond nyquist and make your black lines gray.
Re:off the rez (Score:5, Informative)
The screens in the black and white tubes didn't limit resolution, but the spots size (focus) of the beam could. In practice that's mainly a problem with very small screens and high brightness levels, as seen with c.r.t.s in projection sets. Those sure could look awful...
In practice the resolution from left to right is limited by the video bandwidth. On a high end analog computer monitor that may exceed 100 MHz. That essentially limits the minimum width of vertical lines.
But unlike the case with analog computer monitors where stored digital pixel information has a corresponding fixed position on a line, a true analog signal can have intensity changes occur anywhere along the line. To approximate that digitally would take a minimum of two pixels being averaged. (It's the same theory that dictates using at least 40 KHz sampling to sample 20 KHz audio). Trying to use too few of digital pixels (sub-sampling) is what causes aliasing (the jaggies). Analog tv does have that problem, but only in the vertical direction due to the fixed line count/position.
In an analog television, the bandwidth is limited not by the video amplifier section, but by the "i.f." intermediate frequency strip of filters/amplification. By mixing the incoming signals with an adjustable internal oscillator, the tv tuner shifts the desired channel down to the intermediate frequency, there the i.f. filters pass the desired signal while attenuating that of the adjacent channels. That design approach avoids the need to retune a whole group of filters just to change channels. (When first done with A.M. radios, the breakthrough was called SuperHetrodyne) To get higher horizontal detail requires wider filters, and tv channels spaced more widely (greater spectrum bandwidth). The use of too much spectrum was the main limiting factor in preventing opting for higher quality analog. Also, a wider channel means more noise bandwidth (more is captured), so higher resolution would require increased transmitter power to get the desired signal to noise ratio (not notice snow).
The U.S. system used A.M. transmission, but with only part of the lower sideband transmitted in order to save bandwidth. Normal A.M. sidebands are mirror images of each other. With that redundant carrying of information, one sideband could actually be eliminated (you've heard of S.S.B. or single-sideband), but that was too big of a feat to be viable when tv standards were set. The compromise of vestigal sideband gave U.S. black and white tv slightly less than 4.5 MHz of bandwidth out of a 6 Mhz channel. The sound signal (F.M.) was placed 4.5 MHz up from the visual carrier frequency, so the usable video spectrum could extend quite that far. As with single-sideband, putting the same sideband transmission power as A.M. into a narrow channel reduces noise, so coverage is improved.
N.T.S.C. color stuffs additional information into the spectrum used by black and white. Because of the horizontal (line) scan rate being a samping rate of sorts, the video bands exist in clusters spaced that rate (15.750 Khz for B&W, changed to 15.734 Khz for color) occupying spectrum like the teeth of a comb. The added color information centers on a frequency 3.579545 MHz above the video carrier, a choice which causes the sidebands created by the color information to have a comb=like spectrum with the peaks falling right between those of the black and white. If you every had someone trying to sell you a tv that used comb filtering, maybe now you can almost understand why that was a good thing. It allowed recovering as much as possible of the detail present in both the black and white and color parts of the signal while minimizing interferrence effects between them. On old black and white tvs with pretty good signal bandwidth one could actually see a pattern in the parts of the picture where there was bright color content. It looked sort of like regularly spaced lighter/darker dots from left to right on each line. But the choice of frequencies/spacing was such that al
Re:The Citroen (Score:1, Informative)
Citroen is not only the 2CV. 2CV was the French Beetle and it was perfectly suited for the needs of ruined postwar France. But aside from from 2CV, Citroen built the marvelous DS model, the most advanced car of it's time available to customers.
Judging Citroen by the 2CV is like saying that all inhabitants of the USA are like rednecks from the Bible belt, which obviously is not true.
Re:The Citroen (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The Citroen (Score:1, Informative)
It is still quite snappy. :-
Max speed uphill/slope was 105 Kilometer per hour in 1986 (Rented for 3 days from AVIS, Norway)
It looks a bit odd for most folk, but it is still in daily use with many.
On German Ebay there are at the moment 12 2CV up for sale.
A roadworthy 1986 model TÃoeV August 2010 has an asking price of EURO 1100
Re:The Citroen (Score:3, Informative)
They cheated, I think later models had up to 6HP, instead of the basic 2, then 4.
Re:The Citroen (Score:3, Informative)
The 2CV was not designed for highways. It wasn't even designed for roads. It was developed as an upgrade from horse and cart and as such spent most of its time on dirt tracks and fields.
Off-road (especially in soft mud) they are still extremely capable and can out perform most anything not 4WD.
Re:The Citroen (Score:2, Informative)
2CV: http://dummidumbwit.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/26-citroen-2cv.jpg [wordpress.com]
DS: http://theinvisibleagent.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/citroen_ds.jpg [wordpress.com]
Needless to say, about the only thing they have in common is the chevron badge... and front-wheel drive.
Re:This didn't catch on. . (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Summary is wrong, not higher res that 720p (Score:3, Informative)
>>>horizontal resolution of ~800 pixels, no matter what aspect ratio. 720p is 1280 pixels wide.
It's actually closer to ~920 pixels per line..... and also you didn't take into account that the 1280x720 image is stretched across a wider screen. If you use the IEEE method of measuring horizontal resolution (i.e. how many pixels fit inside a standard square image), the older set and the new digital set are virtually identical at approximately 700 pixels. i.e. They resolve the fine detail in the center of the screen equally.