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Comments: 297 +- Entertainment: DVRs Help Some TV Shows Improve Ratings on Monday November 02, @01:55PM
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by
Soulskill
on Monday November 02, @01:55PM
from the we've-only-been-telling-them-that-for-a-decade dept.
from the we've-only-been-telling-them-that-for-a-decade dept.
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ubermiester writes "After years of panicked lawsuits by content providers against TiVo and DVR technology in general, the NYTimes is reporting on yet another lesson for the content providers to learn and then immediately forget: 'Against almost every expectation, nearly half of all people watching delayed shows are still slouching on their couches watching messages about movies, cars, and beer. According to Nielsen, 46 percent of viewers 18 to 49 years old for all four networks taken together are watching the commercials during playback, up slightly from last year.' The article also notes viewership increases 'in the range of 7 to 12 percent, with some shows having increases of more than 20 percent when DVR ratings are added. The four networks together are averaging a 10 percent increase."
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That's because they need MythTV (Score:5, Interesting)
Not only is it trivial to skip commercials for a shifted show, but it can do it automatically.
I have also adjusted my life to only watching what I have recorded. I'm not sure when the last time I turned on 'Live TV' was. I have taken to keeping the last/freshest five episodes from a number of programs I like to watch, and I select from between them. Myth automatically deletes the old ones, and I find five or so is plenty for my families needs.
That being said, even seeing a commercial these days just feels odd to me, let alone watching it.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I second this. I switched from myth to a commercial DVR because there isn't a cheap/easy way to do encrypted HD using myth and the #1 thing I miss is the commercial autoskip....not so much because its a pain to FF but because its so inefficient...you always overshoot, etc. All the other features were nice but I don't notice the loss as much as the auto-skip feature.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
He's talking about cable.
Cable for the most part in the US is 100% encrypted. You might luck out and
have a local landline monopoly that doesn't encrypt all of their interesting
channels. For the most part, you are going to need an HD-PVR (1212) from
Hauppauge if you want to record something like Sci-Fi, History, Discovery or
HBO.
On the one hand, it's $200 for each recorder.
On the other hand, it compresses everything to h264 which is very useful.
On the 3rd hand, you end up with 720p/1080i h264 recordings that a
Re:That's because they need MythTV (Score:4, Insightful)
Re "seeing a commercial these days just feels odd"... I get the same feeling when I am stuck using a public PC (e.g. at a library) and start seeing ads on the web.
Parent
Re:That's because they need MythTV (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, if the TV Execs and advertisers were smart (I know, I know, we're talking about TV Execs and advertisers, but bear with me), they'd tailor the commercials to the viewers and design their ads to be effective when viewed by someone with a "30-second skip" feature, who will probably only see a few frames of the commercial, randomly phased within the 30 second window.
There are things you can do, like make sure your logo is prominent throughout the length of the commercial, or keeping a hot, scantily-clad female in the frame at all times so that male viewers will back up to watch the whole thing.
I swear, some commercials are doing this already. I predict that in 10 years, all TV commercials will be either static billboard-type ads, or softcore porn vignettes with heavy product placement.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That's because they need MythTV (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the point of the article is that most (ok, less than half) of people just don't care about commercials because TV is a passive, background activity. If you're cooking dinner while you're watching house, you might actually like the fact that there are breaks in the program so you can tend to the food during the break. For instance.
I'm curious as to how these statistics were collected. Do the Nielsen people have technology installed in the DVRs now? I'd be surprised if our DVRs aren't being data-mined yet.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Nielsen tracks the data the same way they've always tracked it - 4000 homes are selected in 210 different cities/towns, and their viewing habits tracked. The only difference is instead of saying the television was "tuned to NBC" or "tuned to FOX", it will say "tuned to DVR" and which program was being watched.
Re:That's because they need MythTV (Score:4, Insightful)
^^^ This.
I've recently jumped on the streaming media bandwagon. I setup the scheduler in uTorrent and downloaded the newest version of TED. Now my PC seeks out new episodes of the shows I want and downloads them during off-peak hours. Then I've got Tversity or whatever it is acting as my UPNP server. Each TV has it's own media receiver.
One side effect of this setup is that the TV shows I've downloaded don't have commercials. At first, I saw this as a good thing. But, after the first few shows, I realized I *missed* the commercials.
Some TV watching, I think of as a 100% attention activity. Think 'really good movies' - you don't want interruptions. You don't want any distractions. No talking to your wife, no running to the kitchen to check on dinner, no talking about what is happening in the movie or what you did at work that day.
But then, some other TV watching - most of the TV watching I do...it's more laid back. The TV is on, but I'm also working on the laptop or cooking dinner or whatever. Commercial breaks give are a welcome interruption. It gives my girl and me a chance to make funny/witty/ remarks about the show we're watching or to talk about other stuff or to get up and check on dinner or to grab a coke, or to run to the bathroom, or to do whatever.
It sounds stupid - but I prefer the commercials for a lot of shows that I don't much care about.
The 'pause' button is an option but then you've got *zero* content on the TV. Commercials are more entertaining than nothing. I like them in certain situations.
Parent
Re:That's because they need MythTV (Score:4, Insightful)
A couple of reasons I guess. First, the girlfriend and I will watch TV together on the couch and often what is happening is that the shows that I really do enjoy watching (cartoons mostly) for her, she doesn't much care about. And the reverse is true - she's got a thing for cops-type shows like NCIS and then reality stuff like the Amazing Race. She also religiously watches Jeopardy.
So, I'll be screwing around on the laptop half watching/half ignoring some show I don't much care for - but she really likes. The commercial breaks give us time for conversation and what not. Yes, I know that *sounds* pathetic, and before I would agreed that it is pathetic; until I went without it.
I think of it like going to a restaurant with a date. Typically, you show up and have to wait a few minutes (annoying). Then they seat you and you have to wait a bit (also annoying). Then, they take your order and you have to wait a bit. Then you get your salad/appetizer or whatever...then you get your actual meal. Then you wait, ask for a check, then you wait, then you get the check, then you pay and leave.
At first glance, it's easy to say, 'Man all that waiting sucks'. But when you remove it; you realize that the breaks actually added to the experience. Certainly, it can be excessive - an hour long wait without being seated and I'd have already left and gone somewhere else. But if you just showed up and were taken to your table with the food already there and you sat and ate the food and left immediately after - the experience would actually be *less* enjoyable even though all you did was remove the annoying parts.
It sounds weird, I guess. But I found this to be true in quite a few places. Take video games. A lot of what you do in video games is annoying (the grind in WoW or other MMORPGs, for example). And you think, if they game didn't have any of this crap, it'd be so much better. Then you jump on a pirated server or you learn the cheat codes or something and the next thing you know you are tired of the game because you already did everything or something. It turns out to be less fun.
So yeah - three months ago, I would have agreed that commercials are nothing but annoying. But once they were gone I missed them.
That's not to say I'd want to watch commercials 100% of the time or that I think they are more entertaining that the actual shows. I just think it's a buffer zone.
Parent
Re:That's because they need MythTV (Score:4, Insightful)
There's two kinds of viewers: those who are going to mute/skip/walk out/ignore/avoid commercials, and those who don't and the same person can be either or both depending on different factors.
Trying to mandate watching commercials is bound to fail. Those who don't want to watch them will go to whatever lengths necessary to avoid them. You've already lost their eyeballs so forget about them, you never had them even before DVRs.
The audience you need to target are those who either enjoy commercials or are not actively avoiding them.
Parent
TV ratings technologies (Score:3, Informative)
TV ratings are collected in two different ways. Some people, like you, fill in diaries to report their viewing, but Nielsen also maintains panels of homes with meters attached to all the video devices in the household. These meters report viewing pretty much on a minute-by-minute (or maybe these days second-by-second) basis. There's a national meter panel, and metered panels in the largest markets as well. National networks (both broadcast and cable) and national advertisers depend on these data from me
Re:That's because they need MythTV (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
MythTv is great but linux GPU drivers for ATI/Intel/Nvidia suck.
You're absolutely right. I'd go so far as to say their entire frontend is coated with a thin layer of suck. Some of it is Linux related, some not.
That said, the backend is a wonderful thing. I just wish Boxee and/or XBMC would utilize all the features the backend offers.
Re:That's because they need MythTV (Score:5, Insightful)
I am not a magical entity, I am merely a corporation looking to protect my bottom line. I do not like or dislike shows, I do not judge them in any way. I don't have the internet, and I don't read your fan forums. So I don't know how many of you really like the show; all I know is whether you saw my ad or not. I pay your favorite show's bills because people that I trust tell me that you watch my commercials. If I found out that you were not watching my commercials, I would stop wasting my money on you, and your show would die.
Are popular Sci-fi shows canceled because they are more expensive? Probably, the return on investment for special effects and such is not so great when compared to a sitcom. But is the return on investment made even worse because a much larger percentage of their fans torrent, DVR, or otherwise remove themselves from the Nielsen numbers? More than likely.
Parent
Re:That's because they need MythTV (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm glad you stopped by. Your cousins in the music industry weren't as thoughtful nor as considerate. Should you not wish to enjoy the same fate they are currently facing, please allow me to suggest you adapt.
You may want to find a way to collect revenue streams at the content level, perhaps from the cable company who gets a fairly large chunk of my household budget each month. You may want to incorporate advertising into your programming.
You may want to do any number of things that I have not yet thought of yet.
What you do NOT want me to do is to turn off my television set because it isn't worth the electricity it uses and the cost of keeping it up to the most recent level of 'D'. With World of Warcraft, Youtube, Slashdot, streaming Netflix, and many other popular internet-based time sinks at my disposal, your job and your millions are very much at risk. I can already consume a lot of content that does not annoy me with advertisements about vaginal cleansing products and there is already little you can do to prevent it.
In short, I am all you have left, and I am hanging by a string. Try not to piss me off.
Thanks, and best of luck to you!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In short, I am all you have left, and I am hanging by a string. Try not to piss me off.
I think you have me confused with a Network Execubot, like your friend Mr. Orca. I am a Broadcast Marketing Execubot. I don't care which network I use; and I don't care how they get viewers. I just pay the one who has the most people who will look at my fine advertisements. Discerning, principled TV viewers like yourself are a statistical anomaly; easily replaced by the hordes watching reality/game shows.
By not watching ads, you don't hurt the advertiser. You hurt the network. When a show's ratings
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry, advertising works.
Sorry, loudness works.
Is "Network Execubot" really a properly respectful form of address for someone so much smarter than you?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If the commercials are better than the TV show you are watching, why are you watching that TV show in the first place?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I could have explained how it works, sorry about that!
1) Myth records the show
2) It flags the commercials by scripted job
3) Hot keys (and/or the automatic setting) jump between flagged sections.
Unless something went wrong in step 2, there is zero frustration. Often times the show fades out and right back in without interruption at all.
The cost for this is the time to do the flagging. I have to watch today's shows tomorrow if I want it to work. That isn't much of a problem for me, but it might not work fo
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
Well, they actually had 2 hours and three minutes....
But in all seriousness, while I enjoy sex with my wife I also enjoy hanging out with her. You may find this hard to believe but there are some woman out there who are interesting and fun in settings other than the bedroom.
I don't get why PVR-users watch recorded ads... (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't understand why those with PVRs still watch the ads. I've found that, with the sole exception of the ad-free (but paid-for, of course) BBC channels, the ad breaks are _way_ too long; this is mostly the reason I use a PVR. To skip through the ads.
In addition, the Treat The Audience As If They Have An Attention Span Of Less Than A Minute approach, showing you highlights of what you're going to see soon, then actually showing you it, then showing you a re-cap of what you've just seen; that just encour
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure how a PVR differs from a DVR, but I don't think the ratings detect when I leave a show running while I'm doing something else, and come back later to rewind and end up skipping the commercials.
Re:I don't get why PVR-users watch recorded ads... (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't understand why those with PVRs still watch the ads.
I enjoy ads that I find clever or interesting - for example, I love most of the ones Jack in the Box (a US hamburger chain) makes. Since I skip through the commercial breaks using my Tivo's 30-second skip function, I'll often catch just enough of an ad so I can tell if it's likely to catch my interest - in which case, I watch it.
If I had to estimate, I'd say I watch at most 15 percent of the commercials, though; and that's likely a high estimate.
I think the bottom line is: When I watch ads, I'm doing so for the same reason I watch a TV show - for entertainment.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree. I've been a TiVo user for years. I do skip a fair number of commercials, but there is a good reason for that.
Some commercials are very good, entertaining. I don't mind them. I may stop to watch them. Apple's ads usually do this. Many commercials are generic, and I don't care that much. I'll often just let them play and avoid them.
The problem is getting torn out of the program when I'm really watching. I enjoy watching the latest episode of HOUR_LONG_SHOW, but I hate watching the same commercial o
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Commercials make good intermission points to let the dogs in or out of the house, take a bathroom break, or whatever. No need to do the FF thing when you need to walk away from the boob tube a second (or 30) anyway.
2) Some commercials are:
a) Related to something you may like to buy soon (ie. Thats a nice looking car, etc.)
b) Clever or interesting enough for you to want to view it.
c) Taking advantage of me falling asleep in front of the TV again, so the commercials played without interruptio
Re:I don't get why PVR-users watch recorded ads... (Score:5, Funny)
Because you miss all the irony if you skip them. Like ads for Carl's Jr. or Jack in the Box during exercise shows.
The very best one was last night. Premiere of "Sex Addict Rehab With Dr. Drew." A facility full of sex addicts, men and women, models, rock stars, and an "adult video star". Not a single one of them sexually attractive in any way, but they're all sitting around talking about having sex with each other. The "adult star", knowing shes going to a facility to treat her addiction, tried sneaking in a dildo she called "Ron Jeremy", and a pair of knee-pads. Epitome of skank.
The major advertiser? Trojan. Not for condoms, but for women's mini-vibrators.
I don't know if it was sad or funny.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
How predictable...the first 3 three comments are about how slashdotters don't watch ads on their DVRs and don't understand why anybody does.
So, am I psychic, or do you idiots really have nothing to offer?
Since I am one of those 'idiots', I guess I'll respond with -
This is Slashdot. Exactly what were you expecting?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
A beowulf cluster of smug elitist know-it-alls, you insensitive clod!
Really? (Score:4, Interesting)
Question is, will the media giants really wake up and stop all this lawsuit nonsense. Will RIAA, MPAA and other copyright trolls really give up the ghost and embrace the digital age and realise the potential of the internet?
Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. Unlike music most broadcast televisions are played only once. So you either make time to be in front of the TV to watch it live, or you record it.
Time shifting makes up for some stupid scheduling decision a TV executive may make.
The point you were trying to make about piracy doesn't make sense in this context...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Bingo! And it might not even be a stupid scheduling decision. Maybe they showed my favorite show right when my GF was "in the mood". Yeah, unlikely with this crowd, but not totally impossible.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
My guess is that they'll treat the internet the same way they've treated every other technological advance for the last century+: fight with everything available to them to resist changing their business model until their respective corporate shareholders start lighting their torches and sharpening their pitchforks and grudgingly adapt to the new technology slowly but never really taking full advantage of it. Perhaps even snagging themselves a new fangled piece of legislation like the DMCA or ACTA.
Define "humor" (Score:2)
When NBC added the “The Jay Leno Show” at 10 each weeknight, it boasted that the show would be “DVR proof,” meaning that because the humor was topical, viewers were more likely to watch it live, avoiding much of the commercial-skipping that was expected to plague recorded shows.
I think the only truly funny thing here is that NBC considers Leno to be humorous. His face looks like a banana...that is sort of funny, I guess.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
but are they really? (Score:3, Informative)
What are the odds that most people use the time during commercials to go get themselves a drink or something and aren't actually watching them? Sure with a DVR you could skip over them but it could very well be just a habit not to do so.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
For me? Zip. I *still* skip the commercials, then press "pause". I have a MythTV system and for most, well behaved shows, this is a snap. Hell, even if I'm available to watch something live, I'll often do something else while the show records just so I can skip through the commercials later.
That's the BAD economy! (Score:3, Insightful)
Back then, when TV was mostly over the air and free I watched commercials. Now that I pay for TV I won't tolerate commercials. I DVR any show I watch that has commercials and watch it at a later date when I can skim through the commercials. It is a rare commercial that I watch. I stop only for those that seem interesting, i.e. have pretty chicks featured prominently! :)
watching commercials (Score:4, Interesting)
Commercials give me a break to go pee, make a phone call, or grab another brew. I still need that break when I'm watching a DVR'd show. I'm not actually watching the commercials.
Re:watching commercials (Score:5, Informative)
Try the "pause" button, you can stop for a break whenever you want to.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The beer commercials contribute to one, and I'm sure there's a drug commercial for the other.
Over enthusiastic conclusions (Score:4, Interesting)
"After years of panicked lawsuits against TiVo and DVR technology in general, the NYTimes is reporting on yet another lesson for content providers to learn and then immediately forget"
"According to Nielsen, 46 percent of viewers 18 to 49 years old for all four networks taken together are watching the commercials during playback, up slightly from last year"
"some shows having increases of more than 20 percent when DVR ratings are added"
So, the ad value drops by 54%... But up to 20% more viewers are added... Giving, at best, 55.2% of your former ad viewership.
Yes, 55.2% of your old value is SO much better than the former 100%.
Drawing the conclusion that content providers were wrong to freak out about DVRs is farcical. Their product is still worth at least 45% less to advertisers. Yes, 45% less is better than 54% less, that 20% bump from DVRs hooking more viewers is nice and all... But, seriously, it's like saying "Hey, we burned down half your home but, good news, we totally discovered a small basement you didn't know about in the charred wreckage. Aren't you grateful we torched your home?!"
Re: (Score:3)
You're assuming that 100% of people who watched regular TV without DVRs watched all of the commercials and that is a very bad assumption. Of course it's also foolish to equate not skipping an ad for actually watching an ad. I mean how many people do other stuff while the commercials are running?
television was supposed to kill the cinema house (Score:4, Insightful)
then the vcr was supposed to kill the cinema house
now the internet is supposed to kill the cinema house
meanwhile:
http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/ [boxofficemojo.com]
lesson: people fear losing control. as if control had anything to do with making money off media in the first place
in your desperate attempt to retain control, dear media execs, you might want to notice you are wasting a lot of energy over issues that have nothing to do with your bottom line. only your fear tells you this is the case
in your business strategies, you need more zen, less mafia goons
Re:television was supposed to kill the cinema hous (Score:3, Insightful)
then the vcr was supposed to kill the cinema house
A bit off-topic, but: In my (and my wife's) case, I usually say "Netflix and a LCD television killed the cinema house" - but in truth it was the various cinema houses that killed themselves off. Ridiculous prices for food; Overpriced admission costs, plus (adding insult to injury) 20 minutes of commercials before you get to see the movie; and having to tolerate the obnoxious behavior of some other patrons - or try to deal with it myself - because there's no such thing as an usher anymore.
Commercials (Score:5, Insightful)
The only reason I wind up watching commercials is because I forgot I'm watching something on the DVR and I am allowed to fast forward through it! I must be getting old..
my own experience (Score:3, Interesting)
I use the 30 second skip button on my Tivo to flash through the commercials. This typically means that the only commercial I see is either the first one of the break, or the last one of the break. If the first one catches my attention in the first 3 seconds, I end up watching it, and if the last 5 seconds of the last one is intriguing (say, has a punch line but not the setup), I will rewind to watch it. Occasionally, I will end up watching a commercial in the middle if the quick flash draws my brain in too (typically with some sort of interesting colors, etc).
Otherwise, I just skip through them. Seems like there could be money made studying the unique commercial viewing habits of DVR users. I'm not sure if my own experiences are unique or common.
Also, is 'had commercial playing' the finest granularity Nielsen can provide? What percent of those people actually remembered what the ad was about? And how does that percentage compare to live TV watchers?
DVR increases ratings? DUH! (Score:5, Insightful)
They say that DVRs have increased ratings for shows as if it's surprising. Isn't this the whole point of a DVR though? You record it because you would not have otherwise been able to watch the show in its regularly scheduled time slot. So instead of just plain missing the show, you record it and watch it later. Instead of having to pick between two shows where one will get watched and the other will get missed, you record them both, and they both get watched. In the latter, the DVR has increased your potential audience. I'm a little surprised about the commerical watching though. As a MythTV user, I skip commercials altogether without the need for any user interaction. However, in cases where the commercials are not skipped (like if I start watching a show fifteen minutes into the broadcast), it's about a 60/40 split as to whether I'll bother fast forwarding. Someimes I'm really that lazy where lifting my arm to pick up the remote seems like too much effort. Other times it's the perfect bathroom break. Even though MythTV skips my commercials and could potentially pause for a break whenever I want, I tend to do it when there is a commercial simply because the flow of the show dictates a pause for commercial. It's kind of weird to pause in the middle of a conversation and come back a few minutes later. It totally messes with the flow.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
skipping ads is communism / terrorism / child-unfriendly :P