How Watchmen Killed 'R'-rated Fantasy Movies 771
An anonymous reader writes "Of all the Hollywood properties consigned to development hell in the reductionist policy of the last 3-4 years of bad economy, the very last to have a prospect of a green light are expensive fantasy and SF projects that fall outside the 'family' remit. Not even the addition of James Cameron to David Fincher's Heavy Metal remake has stopped its begging-bowl passage from studio to studio; Robert Rodriguez's propriety of the Barbarella remake likewise toured the world in vain, apparently unmindful of the very unusual set of cultural and demographic circumstances that caused a major studio to back an 'erotic space opera' in 1968 — and to the fact that these circumstances are not likely to reoccur. David Fincher lamented in 2008 that the creation of dazzling artificial movie worlds is limited to family-friendly output — but in the long wake of the box-office disappointment of the 'R'-rated Watchmen movie, there seems no current prospect that the adults will ever get to play with the kids' toys again." The most frustrating part of this is that Watchmen was actually *good*.
Re:Good? (Score:5, Interesting)
Something here is not like the other (Score:3, Interesting)
Second, IMHO, there are four audiences for films. First is the family, which is big as it can be as many as four tikets sold if one person wants to see a movie. No nudity in family movies. Second is the teenage date movie. These tend to be gross and with some nudity, but they are marketed to boys, and boys want to see teats, not penises, and also often must pass parent approval. Third are movies made for families with older teens, or adults who go and see movies, where there is something substantial in the movie. Nudity is optional, but promotion has to be done in such a way that potential viewer gets what the movie is about. Fourth is art crowd. Cinematography, story, writing is the thing. Nudity and sex is not always expected but no one is going to stay away because it is explicitly there. Budgets tend to be lower, and stories tend to be non-fantastical, at least outside the realm of believing that people with no money can afford expensive Paris flats.
When I look at watchmen I see a movie that did none of these things. It did not market outside of the group of viewers that understood it. It also feel to the current situation in which a movie that is not good, and does not do enough to promote the oening weekend, will fail because everyone who did not go the opening weekend will know it is not good and not go.
Re:It was OK (Score:5, Interesting)
I wasn't very happy about the altered ending or the removal of the guy reading the comic book.
I think the movie ending wasn't that bad in that it effectively substituted one common enemy for another. And given Dr. Manhattan's public disillusionment with humanity, it was just as plausible as the original ending. Knowing both endings, I was a lot less upset about that change than I was about the pointless diversions in the Lord of the Rings to Helm's Deep and Osgiliath, for instance. The Watchmen ending actually had the benefit of actually surprising me a little, because I knew how the comic ended and while it was similar, it was not exactly the same.
My only real problem with the ending is that if Dr. Manhattan actually decided to act out, it seems to me that the devastation would have been total. Any government that had any intelligence on him would have wondered why his action was as (relatively) small scale as it was. At least in the original ending, the enemy is not a known quantity to anyone; it can produce fear from both its sheer power and from being an unknown.
Of course, familiarity with Dr. Manhattan's progressing condition might well have caused no small manner of fear and dread in an informed observer over time.
Re:Heavy Metal? Plot? (Score:4, Interesting)
I liked Heavy Metal and Avatar was fun to watch, but Avatar's biggest problem was morality-driven plot simpler than "do good" books you'd give to a six year old. From a story perspective, Heavy Metal seemed more involved (and fairly non-linear given the segments involved different characters and animation styles).
IMHO, "good" movies for adults have plots that share the real world's complexities, moral ambiguities and trade-offs. Nothing in the real world is as straightforward and simple as the dumb plot in Avatar.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not the same thing (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Not the same thing (Score:4, Interesting)
Go with your instincts on this one. I'll let u on a secret that I had to learn the hard way. Word of mouth is probably the worst way to find out about a product. Because our minds are trained to think it's actually automatically good. I can't tell you how many things I looked into and bought because of Slashdot (game opinions are the worst--almost every game ppl said they liked on /, were AWFUL). Don't listen to the OP.
Watchmen is probably the worst movie I have ever seen. And it was only rented! And I didn't even pay for the rental! I actually was pissed that I spent the 2 some hours on the movie. It was so bad. That's why, not because of some R rating. I mean, where do I start with how bad this thing was:
1) It had awful pacing. There would be 30 min of dullness followed by 5 min of something interesting. Then another 45 min of dullness. /. beloved comic was good, this movie was not. It was told poorly
2) The story made no sense. Even if
3) Insanely lame characters with lame things that they did throughout the movie
4) Too much talking. Yes talking and back story and dialog are good. Not good is when it goes 30 mins with ramblings on and no discernible direction
5) That lame constant voiceover by that Rorschach guy.
There are so many more reasons, but now I'm just getting pissed on how bad that movie is and how everyone here loves it. Just don't do it man, don't even watch it on channel 11 when you're bored on a sunday afternoon. That's when you know it's bad: when it's not even worth that!
Re:Good? (Score:5, Interesting)
Watchmen was an overlong, overwrought, overly wordy, over hyped, over produced mess.
It was not, by any stretch of the imagination, good.
This is 100% correct. Mode me troll and flamebait, I don't give a fuck.
Watchmen was a bad movie and it failed because it was a bad movie.
Is Slashdot going to post an article next week about Scott Pilgrim and how it was actually a good movie?
Being different, weird, and so against the grain to the point of being contrarian, doesn't make something unique, deep, or good. It just makes anti-social people feel better for liking it, as well as more inclined to like it in the first place because it's different, weird, and contrarian - just like them.
The only things the general public saw when they saw Watchmen were an unnecessary blue dick, a bad plot, forced edginess in the form of "we're heroes, but we're so dark and moody we often act like villains and play out our own little soap opera in our secret club", and shitty costumes that screamed "Batman Ripoff".
And you know what? This was one of the rare occasions when the general public got something right.
If you liked it, fine. Enjoy your movie.
But to say that it would have done better if it was PG-13 is a joke.
Re:It was OK (Score:5, Interesting)
I read the comic around the same time as the movie coming out. I personally hated the squid ending. It was much more in line with "the smartest man in the world" to simply manipulate Dr Manhattan into being the scapegoat.
Re:It was good. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not against seeing things that are giant and / or blue, but I prefer my movies without penis shots. Call me crazy.
Genuine question: Why do you care? This comes up everytime the Watchmen movie is discussed and I just don't get it. I watched the whole film without any particular reaction to his dick. It's just a dick.
Re:It was OK (Score:4, Interesting)
All I have to say is that the Watchmen adaptation was done by someone who knew and loved the material, whereas you look at the awful V For Vendetta adaptation, and you see someone using a story very much based in 1980s sensibilities as some sort of Bush-era parable. I'm a fan of both graphic novels, which to my mind represent the summit of "comic books" and set out Alan Moore as one of the great writers of the last thirty years, and I felt Watchmen was as good an adaptation as you could get on the screen, but thought V For Vendetta was just a gawdawful pile of crap.
Re:Not the same thing (Score:5, Interesting)
I think the most unforgivable change was removing Dr. Manhattan's private conversation with Ozymandias at the very end.
(SEMI-)SPOILER ALERT
OZY: "Hello, Jon. I was hoping we'd have the chance to talk. Jon... I know people think me callous, but I've made myself feel every death. By day I imagine endless faces. by night... well, I dream about swimming towards a hideous... No. never mind. It isn't significant...
What's significant is that I know. I know I've struggled across the backs of murdered innocents to save humanity... But someone had to take the weight of that awful, necessary crime. I'd hoped you'd understand, unlike Rorschach..."
MAN: "You needn't consider Rorschach. I strongly doubt He'll reach civilization... but yes, I understand, without condoning or condemning. Human affairs cannot be my concern. I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated."
OZY: "But you'd regained interest in human life..."
MAN: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye, Adrian."
OZY: "Jon, wait, before you leave... I did the right thing, didn't I? it all worked out in the end."
MAN: "'In the end?' Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends."
OZY: "Jon? Wait! What do you mean by..."
[Manhattan vanishes, leaving Ozymandias to his doubts]
END (SEMI-)SPOILER
Seriously, it took me about two minutes to write that chunk of the script, including digging out the comic. It would be a 45 second scene. Of all the things they COULD have cut, but decided not to, they chose the most meaningful exchange in the entire thing? That's just asinine.