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Music Businesses The Almighty Buck The Internet

Pandora Paying Artists $0.0001 More Per Stream Than It Was Last Year 124

Posted by samzenpus from the don't-spend-it-all-at-once dept.
journovampire writes: Pandora has revealed that it's paying a 10,000th of a dollar more to music labels and artists than it was in 2014. From the article: "Pandora has revealed that its royalty payments to SoundExchange, the US licensing body which collects performance royalties on behalf of record labels and artists, have just increased by 8%. The news was confirmed in a call with investors following Pandora’s Q1 fiscal results announcement on Thursday (April 23), in which it posted a three-month net loss of $48.3m. In what Pandora CEO Brian McAndrews called a scheduled annual step-up, Pandora has from January 1 been paying out an average $0.0014 per ad-funded stream and $0.0024 per premium stream to SoundExchange."
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Pandora Paying Artists $0.0001 More Per Stream Than It Was Last Year More

Pandora Paying Artists $0.0001 More Per Stream Than It Was Last Year

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  • Why should they pay to provide free advertisement of the artists music?

    The artists should be paying them to carry their music...

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by krept ( 697623 )
      I'm not quite on board with this.

    • Re:BAh, (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Richard_at_work ( 517087 ) on Monday April 27, 2015 @09:15AM (#49559335)

      At what point did Pandora explicitly ask the artists if they wanted their work advertising? At which point did the artists explicitly agree to Pandora advertising their works?

      When you build a product which is specifically built around using other peoples works to satisfy your customers requirements, at some point you have to pay the piper - so stop with the fucking advertising "argument", Pandora is taking money from subscribers and advertisers on the back of the works of third parties, so of course there should be recompense to those third parties where those parties require recompense.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by itzly ( 3699663 )

        At what point did Pandora explicitly ask the artists if they wanted their work advertising

        Since most artists don't own the rights to their work, they didn't need to ask.

        • Ok, so lets be pedantic then - substitute "artist" with "rights holder" in my post then. It's still a valid question.

          The advertising "argument" is a fucking ludicrous one.

        • Most indie and small label artists actually own the copyright to their music and just license it to the label for a term usually with options on future work in exchange for the label's services. Indie artists tend to be very protective of their merchandising as even if you can hold a high position on the cmj chart generally your income is not from spins or album sales, it's from performances and merchandising.

      • At what point did Pandora explicitly ask the artists if they wanted their work advertising? At which point did the artists explicitly agree to Pandora advertising their works?

        Pandora is just radio "on the Internet", with the logical efficiencies that unicast delivery can provide. Demanding a different licensing scheme is as much bullshit as every one of the patents that demanded rent for some existing thing and then added "on the Internet" on the end.

        It's only lawyers who benefit from re-litigating establi

        • ...just radio "on the Internet", with the logical efficiencies that unicast delivery can provide.

          ...as much bullshit as every one of the patents that demanded rent for some existing thing and then added "on the Internet" on the end.

          What, exactly, are these "logical efficiencies" that can be applied to "just radio" ?

          Can I tune my old car radio to it? I have some of those nice pop-out buttons for the 8-track, AM, FM... is there now a button labeled "IP"? No? Do I perhaps need some other device, like an FM transmitter on my cell phone? I suppose we should consider the cell phone, towers, multiplexers, phone OS, and various interfaces as well... those certainly aren't simple enough to be ignored. On the "just radio" side, there are the

      • No, they don't deserve anything except when they perform really. CDs are just another from of advertising their so called "talent".

        Play live for your money. The End

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Karlt1 ( 231423 )

          So if a developer writes a new program on their own and publishes it. Should they not get paid every time someone uses it and only get paid for the time they spent writing it? Would you tell a developer if they want to get paid they should continuously write new stuff instead of expecting to get paid for what they already wrote? Should an author only get paid while they are writing a book and not expect to get paid when a copy of the book is sold?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by itzly ( 3699663 )

            Most developers are only paid for the hours they are actually working, and are not getting paid for actual use of their product.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Karlt1 ( 231423 )

              Words Mean Things:

              "So if a developer writes a new program on their own and publishes it".

              So to clarify the question, if a developer writes a program on their own time and self publishes it, should they not reap the rewards of the program and only get paid for writing it?

              • So to clarify the question, if a developer writes a program on their own time and self publishes it, should they not reap the rewards of the program and only get paid for writing it?

                When one sets out to fix someone's grammar, one should tread carefully. In English usage it is unclear whether your "not" is distributive over your "and". It is therefore better to write: "So to clarify the question, if a developer writes a program on their own time and self publishes it, should they get paid only for writing it and not reap the rewards of the program?"

          • Yep. do you pay the builders of your house after they build and keep paying them even though they are done building it? No.

            Do you keep paying Ford/GM/Fiat/whoever for your car after you buy it? No.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Karlt1 ( 231423 )

              So when should a software developer get paid for software that he wrote on his own time and self publishes?

              When should an author of a book get paid?

              A builder and a car manufacturer gets paid for each house they sell or each car they make respectively. Why shouldn't a developer get paid for each piece of software they write or a book publisher get paid for each copy of a book they sell?

              • They wrote it once, the rest are just copies, requiring no work on the authors part

                • Still didn't answer the question. How should an independent developer get paid and who decides?

                  • The market decides.

                    People will pay you what they think your program is worth. It happens with surprising regularity.

                    • Going back to your car analogy....

                      Can a person randomly decide how much they want to pay for a car and just walk out with the car based on the price they decide to pay?

                    • Car analogy doesn't work. A car is a physical object, if you take it, it isn't still there.

                      A copy is just a copy, the original is still there.

                    • You made the car analogy. It took a programmer or group of programmers time to write the program. Are you willing to use your time for free and come over to cut my grass?

    • This free music, idea work with high-school garage bands... But once they are old enough to make a living, they need to charge for their work. Now do you want your paycheck for the work that you do? So you have money for things like food, shelter, and supporting a family?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by itzly ( 3699663 )

        Now do you want your paycheck for the work that you do? So you have money for things like food, shelter, and supporting a family?

        Sure, but most people only get a paycheck for the work they did that month, not for the work they did 5 years ago.

      • I love playing video games, doing things with my daughter and wife, and playing with my dogs, doesn't mean I'm entitled to get paid for it.

        Music (among other art) is just a hobby that some get paid for, it's not an occupation...

        • Music (among other art) is just a hobby that some get paid for, it's not an occupation...

          Interesting opinion. I happen to disagree. Instead, I think that YOUR chosen profession is just a hobby and you don't deserve to get paid for it.

        • Oh please, that attitude is bullshit and you know it. Does this same edict that you're proposing also apply to Authors? Should they only be paid for the hours they're writing their books? How about painters? Film makers?

          Look, you're clearly one of these guys who (for some reason) has a problem with the idea that people can make money creating art, which evidently is something that you think is easy, trivial, and virtually superfluous (Plato, among others, would disagree with you). I can assum

          • Sorry you are a pathetic fool.

            You can fix that, but you refuse.

            • Ah, MitchDev. You're adorable. Such an insightful and though provoking response. I find it so cute when teenagers take time away from playing Grand Theft Auto and practice talking with grown ups on the internet. You are a super scary and tough boy, I am totally totally intimidated by you.

              Sincerely, fuck you. Go suck a dick.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ichthus ( 72442 )
      Agree. How is Pandora any different from radio? Artists' labels fight to get air time for singles in order to promote the art, the artist and potentially increase ticket sales when the artist tours. Pandora provides the same service.
    • I have to say, I'm of really mixed feelings about paying royalties for the right to play music. On the one hand, there is the advertising of a band or artist aspect which you refer to, which helps drive ticket, CD, download and merchandise sales. But on the other hand, musicians are in the business of making music. I see nothing wrong with paying to see/hear them in person, so I have no problem with paying (in some fashion) to hear them broadcast or streamed. Pus, I've been spoiled by growing up during a ti

  • That's way too much (Score:5, Funny)

    by etash ( 1907284 ) on Monday April 27, 2015 @08:54AM (#49559217)
    the artists are gonna be rich now and we won't be able to control them!

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Don't worry, it really doesn't go to the artist, it goes to the owner of their work.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Actually it seems to be a pay cut, since it's less than inflation in most countries.

      • Actually it seems to be a pay cut, since it's less than inflation in most countries.

        It is about a 7% increase. Inflation in most of the developed world is between -1% and 1%. So, no, it is not at "pay cut".

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Damn, came here to say that inflation is more like 2% (the rate the Fed is supposed to maintain),

          Sought data to back me up: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

          Saw that it backed you up instead :(.

          • Well, it is actually more like 10%, but the government says it is 2-3%. What they don't consider is that a large part of people's expenditures is on things that they don't include in the CPI, like fuel and items which are delivered using fuel, in other words, everything. Most common food items have gone up by 100% or more in the last 10 years. They also do not take into consideration that a "box of crackers" has only gone up by 3% per year in cost, but a "box of crackers" now weighs about half what a "box o
    • A hundredth of a penny spent actually paying the artists is a hundredth of a penny wasted? Spoken like a true record company executive.

  • This is why.. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    .. I'm never going to buy any music.

    I'd send money directly to artists, tho.

    • Or, failing the artists, Sound Exchange could set up a credit card payment system. Pay $10 a year (which is what Pandora pays per user if they're all listening to an average of 20 songs a day) and you can pirate with impunity.

      Sure, it would still use the same dubious mechanism for divvying up the profits, but you'd get the convenience of commodity torrent websites, tools and players rather than whatever the commercial offerings are peddling and you would guarantee that a larger percentage of the money would

      • and you can pirate with impunity.

        Arrghh, ye be takin' all the fun out of it, matey.

      • Pandora has 200 million users. If they're all listening to 20 songs per day, that's $400,000 of royalties per day.
        • With $48 million in losses over 90 days, that's a bit over $500,000 per day. Seems about right in terms of royalties. Ads and paid subscriptions probably cover operational costs minus royalties.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gnupun ( 752725 )

      .. I'm never going to buy any music.

      I'd send money directly to artists, tho.

      How frickin hard is it set up a webserver to distribute their own music in this day and age? Protecting the music from pirate distributions once it leaves the server is quite hard though, as is marketing their songs.

  • Artists don't make money from music sales. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 27, 2015 @09:12AM (#49559321)

    They never really have. Middlemen who constantly keep them relevant with advertising, publish/distribute their music, etc. make all of that money.

    Artists make money by going on tour, and by using their fame to get into other business ventures. They don't bank on Pandora making them money, because of Pandora paid more, the middlemen would get that money. All Pandora does is keep them relevant.

  • Incorrect. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Monday April 27, 2015 @09:21AM (#49559363) Homepage

    Pandora is paying record labels via ASCAP and BMI that much more. Artists are probably getting less because the record labels and ASCAP/BMI are charging an extra processing fee.

    The artists only lose because of the leeches that grab onto them and suck them dry.

    • Seems like someone could make balls-tons of money if they operated a non-profit music label that provided all of the usual services that musicians use (recording studios, instruments, backup musicians, venue booking, advertising, steaming service negotiations and so on.)

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Most (indie) musicians like my self, use CDBaby (for almost 15 years) it's the easiest path to getting your music on iTunes (and about 50 other online digital sites). Their for artists website is here: http://members.cdbaby.com/

        We literally can just upload .WAV files and the cover photo for our album (for my last one, I didn't even print a physical CD) it gets onto iTunes (and those other sites) within a week. They charge about $100 one time, and they give you 91% of the money that those sites payout.

        They'

      • Or maybe musicians should just stop selling out to the publishers in hopes of fame and quick money. It seems to me that we don't hear similar stories about authors losing the rights to the books they write when they get a book published. Maybe I'm wrong here, and authors get it just as bad, but it certainly seems to me like they get a much better deal.

      • How could that person make "balls-ton of money" when you say its a "non-profit"? They should be charging cost and nothing more.

  • ....that's 100% more than radio stations are paying to play the same songs.

    • ....that's 100% more than radio stations are paying to play the same songs.

      ahhh no. Radio stations pay licensing fees too. some of those fees for commercial stations can be pretty sizable too.

      • Commercial radio has a sweet deal (Score:5, Informative)

        by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Monday April 27, 2015 @11:00AM (#49560429) Journal

        Radio stations pay exactly zero to the performing artists. What they pay are royalties to the songwriters. And compared to Pandora, those rates are insanely low per "stream" - i.e. per event coming out of a receiver. They may be paying $0.60-$1.00 a spin at a large metro station, but with 100,000+ average listeners for a top-of-market station, that's less than 1/10 of what Pandora pays.

    • So radio stations pay $0.0007? Or are you trying to say they pay $0?

      I don't think either of those is true...

      • Terrestrial radio pays only the songwriter, not the performing artist. And the songwriter fees are exceptionally low per listener (far lower than Pandora). Worse yet, only the top n songwriters get paid at all based on total plays; if you're not in high rotation, there's no distribution to you.

    • Radio stations pay BMI and ASCAP.

      I wish articles like this would provide some context. How much do the rights holders get per play on terrestrial radio? Satellite radio? Is internet radio higher or lower?

  • Are there any good alternatives for musical artists who want to make money off their work, want to embrace technology (vs fight it) and don't already have a massive audience like Radiohead? If you have that audience, asking people to "pay what you want" seems to work (and really well). But it seems like an entire revenue stream (music sales) is drying up in favor of tours. That doesn't bode well for artists, or for fans who want to see affordable live music. But it seems like the demand is there, and people

    • But it seems like an entire revenue stream (music sales) is drying up in favor of tours.

      What? Most artists never make anything on record sales, they get their money from tours, doing commercials...

  • Since most of the artists I listen to on streaming services are dead, should they be paying me?

    • You should pay more, didn't you know. Without an and increase in copyright royalties, those dead authors will have no incentive to write any new songs.

      I mean, have you heard anything new from those dead songwriters since internet streaming took off? Of course not - that's proof that the royalties aren't high enough to make it worth their while.

  • Pandora's MAKING IT RAIN! Just do that dance 1000 more times and I'll give you a penny!
  • How much of the money Sound Exchange collects goes to the artists, how much of the money Sound Exchange collects goes to music publishers? How much of the money Sound Exchange collects goes to song writers?

    .
    The money trail in the music industry is long, crooked and complex. Unless you are a big enough act that the records companies accept the contract you write, the only money you will see appears in your upturned hat.....

    • How much of the money Sound Exchange collects goes to the artists, how much of the money Sound Exchange collects goes to music publishers? How much of the money Sound Exchange collects goes to song writers?

      .The money trail in the music industry is long, crooked and complex. Unless you are a big enough act that the records companies accept the contract you write, the only money you will see appears in your upturned hat.....

      How much money does SoundExchange keep for itself? I bet they aren't doing this for free.

  • As my grandpa would say, when he gave me a quarter:

    "Try not to spend it all in one place."

    He thought it was hilarious.

    (This was circa 1975, admittedly. Back when a quarter could still buy something of value.)

  • It's more of a raise than most people got, so stop bitching.

  • instead of over the internet, they would pay $0.000000. Hell, the labels might even want to pay them for airtime.

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