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Television Media The Courts The Media Youtube Your Rights Online

CNN and CBC Sued For Pirating YouTube Video 222

vivaoporto sends word that in a rare case of an individual taking on large corporations for copyright infrigement, a New York man has sued news networks CNN and CBC after they took a video of his from YouTube and broadcast it on the air without licensing it. His video shows a winter storm in Buffalo generating huge amounts of lake effect snow. The man, Alfonzo Cutaia, decided to enable monetization on his video, selecting the "Standard YouTube License," "a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of [the video]. All other rights are reserved to the copyright owner and standard copyright laws and exceptions apply." Cutaia says the CBC used his video with their logo on it. The CBC confirmed this, and said they received a 10-day license from CNN, who had no legal right to do so. His lawsuit now accuses them both of "intentional and willful" copyright infringement.
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CNN and CBC Sued For Pirating YouTube Video

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  • WTF does that mean? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute

    This says they can use it, reproduce it, sublicense it, distribute it without paying royalties. Seems like this guy doesn't have a leg to stand on. Why is this on Slashdot?

    • by Calydor ( 739835 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @11:59AM (#50316731)

      It means that Youtube doesn't have to pay him royalties and can share it with daughter/sister companies, eg. Google+.

      It does not mean that CBC can sweep in, drop their logo on the video and call it theirs.

      • by misosoup7 ( 1673306 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @12:24PM (#50316927)
        Actually, I'm pretty sure that Google can theoretically sublicense it to other entities not related to Google. But I doubt that's what happened. Google has this clause so they can pick up awesome videos and use it in commercials without getting sued for infringement. As that would actually mean sublicensing the content from Google to a media firm. Besides, Google+ is not a subsidiary of Google, neither is Youtube. They are just products offered by Google. They don't need to sublicense it to move it form one service or another.

        But yes, the Youtube Standard License give Google the right to sublicense and distribute not anyone viewing the videos. So if you download a video that's not yours on Standard YouTube License from YouTube and then upload it to your website without using the YouTube link you are actually pirating. If you use the YouTube container (ie it's actually streaming from YouTube) then you are getting a sublicense which is not pirating.
        • Besides, Google+ is not a subsidiary of Google, neither is Youtube.

          Incorrect. Youtube LLC is a wholly owned subsidiary [sec.gov] of Google Inc. Large companies routinely are composed of a large number of smaller entities and Google is no exception. Youtube is ALSO a product but it is a corporation too.

          They are just products offered by Google. They don't need to sublicense it to move it form one service or another.

          Also incorrect. Just because both corporate entities are owned by the same company does not mean they automatically share the same rights or licensing to property.

      • by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @12:27PM (#50316957)

        It means that Youtube doesn't have to pay him royalties and can share it with daughter/sister companies, eg. Google+.

        It does not mean that CBC can sweep in, drop their logo on the video and call it theirs.

        They can if they had properly licensed the video from CNN, from what I can tell the issue is that CNN had no right to license the video to CBC.

      • CBC has permission to do that though, from CNN. It's CNN that did not have permission to sublicense the way they did (or at all, who knows). So why this guy is suing the CBC is beyond me

        • Probably because when this first started, no one but CBC / CNN knew this. It's CBC's logo on the video, not CNNs. Only through this discovery process did we learn that they are claiming "CNN said it was ok".
        • So why this guy is suing the CBC is beyond me

          Because CBC infringed (likely unintentionally) by publishing the video without a valid license.

          • by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @01:21PM (#50317343) Homepage

            I think the argument goes that CBC thought they'd obtained a 10-day license from CNN .. which CNN wasn't authorized to provide them ... but after this good-faith 10-day license lapsed (which wasn't really valid), the CBC continued to use the material ... meaning that, even if they had obtained an actual license, and acted in good faith, they stopped acting in good faith when they used it after the 10 days anyway.

            So on day 11 you can no longer claim that you were using it under license if you knew you only licensed it for 10 days.

            I think it's like the Wookie defense, only with some actual merit.

            Up to day 10, you can say you got the license from CNN and if that was an invalid license then CNN misrepresented themselves, and you are a victim.

            Use it after 10 days, and you can't even claim that. Now you'd have been willfully violating the original (but invalid) license.

            The man does have a point. And I'm sure if you took a CNN video and used it improperly, they'd go all crazy. For them to suddenly claim "it was on YouTube so it's free" would be complete bullshit.

            So, by doing what would have been a breech of license if CNN was allowed to give you a license then your unlicensed use of the video violated your license because your license had ended.

            LOL .. yo dawg, I hear you like licenses.

            • I think it's like the Wookie defense, only with some actual merit.

              Dammit, for the n'th time, it's Chewbacca defense!

            • Just because CBC was the victim of CNN's fraudulent relicensing, it doesn't relieve them of all liability. Even if they stopped using the video within the 10 days, it would still be copyright infringement since the license they bought wasn't valid. The fact that they did continue to use it just means a willful infringement case is much more likely to be successful.

            • by LWATCDR ( 28044 )

              That does not matter in the legal world.
              CBC violated the copyright by showing it. So you go after CBC. If CBC can then say that they did this because CNN said they could. The court could then rule that the CBC has to pay and then the CBC can go after CNN or that CBC was acting in good faith and that the plaintiff needs to go after CNN.
              Both are common outcomes.

        • by KitFox ( 712780 )

          CBC has permission to do that though, from CNN. It's CNN that did not have permission to sublicense the way they did (or at all, who knows). So why this guy is suing the CBC is beyond me

          IANAL, however I wonder... Last time I checked copyright law in the US (LOOONG ago), there were limitations on what you could do against infringing entities without the copyright being registered with the government. Perhaps Canada, where CBC is based, doesn't care if the copyright is registered with anybody and allows him to seek damages despite it likely not being registered. Of course to get damages from CNN he might need to register it, and I forget what the timing parts of the law are. Ahh well. Idle s

          • by mark-t ( 151149 )
            In Canada, where CBC is based, if CNN genuinely had no license to authorize the CBC to broadcast the video (whether or not they did depends heavily on the interpretation of certain wording in the TOS with regards to third party usage), and the CBC is determined to be financially accountable, then the CBC could justly sue CNN, and reclaim the license fee that they paid, as well as all the damages from the case against them. I suspect they will not be held accountable, however, and any damages otherwise owed
            • Which falls apart entirely when the CBC used it after their invalid license expired.

              Look at it this way, if they had a valid 10 day license from CNN, and kept using it after 10 days, they'd be using it without a valid license and CNN could have done something about it.

              It gets really messed up when your defense that you had a license but continued to use it even after that (non existent) license expired.

              They'd have been infringing no matter if the license was real or not.

              So then how screwed up is it that, wh

              • by mark-t ( 151149 )

                Bear in mind that at this moment, it is only Cutia's allegation that CBC was using the video for a substantially longer period than what even the license CBC is claiming to have purchased would have allowed, and I did not read anywhere that this claim was corroborated by anyone else who would know.

                Secondly, even if that were the case, then that might suggest that Cutia did not try and mitigate the damages against him quickly enough, and although it doesn't excuse the CBC for what they are alleged to have

                • by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @03:30PM (#50318397) Homepage

                  I'm not normally one to defend copyright suits ... and I don't have it in for the CBC ... but I think corporations need to be held to the same standard as they abuse us with.

                  Cutia owned a piece of copyrighted work, which was explicitly marked as such.

                  The hiding behind the license sold to you by a third part who didn't have the rights to sell you that license starts to get very thin.

                  So if it is a valid defense to say you bought a license in good faith but were lied to .. is it a valid defense for me to buy a pirated DVD and say I just thought it was a good price? I'm not convinced that would work for me.

                  And if the CBC used this for more than 10 days (say they left it on their webpage) ... can they then claim to be shielded by saying they acted in good faith when they used the video longer than their license?

                  I'm not a lawyer, and like you I don't know all the facts either.

                  But the ice starts to get pretty thin, and we also get into areas where corporations are subjected to a different interpretation of the law than we are. And that is completely crap.

          • by slew ( 2918 )

            IANAL, but as I understand it, you only need to register for a copyright if

            * you want to be eligible to collect statutory* damages (as opposed to damages for actual loss) and attorney's fees
            * you want the US custom's service to enforce your copyright claim (e.g., confiscating recordings)

            You also need to register before you can file a copyright infringement claim in court (as opposed to a standard tort or civil claim). But since you can technically register your work anytime during the lifetime of the copyr

        • The summary just posts a link to a generic article about copyright. However media companies usually have blanket license agreements with providers that provide them rights so that they don't have to ask every time they want to use a video or audio clip. So mostly likely CNN has an agreement with Google that lets them use and transfer videos from YouTube. And CBC has the agreement with CNN that lets them use their clips for 10 days. (It's probably a reciprocal agreement that all news organizations have.)

    • by Anonymous Coward

      They left out the most important preceding section of the license paragraph:

      you retain all of your ownership rights in your Content. However, by submitting Content to YouTube, you hereby grant YouTube a worldwide...

  • Settle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bondsbw ( 888959 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @12:00PM (#50316735)

    CNN and CBC would do well to settle. Fighting this would be admitting that they don't truly believe that copyright deserves protection, and could be used against them in future lawsuits in which they are plaintiff.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Which is exactly why the guy suing them should not settle, even if it means a lower pay day.

      • by bondsbw ( 888959 )

        I would love to see crowdfunding for Cutaia to take this all the way through court. If he loses then the DMCA loses and he deserves something for accomplishing that. If he wins (or settles), he returns the money to those who funded him.

    • Re:Settle (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @12:42PM (#50317089) Homepage

      I WANT it to go to court and I want them hit with copyright violation and have the plaintiff use the same calculation that the RIAA and MPAA uses and demand $4.6 billion in lost revenue as they shared the video with millions of people.

      The RIAA and the MPAA make up bullshit numbers. and it's time that same bullshit get applied to a corporation.

      • I WANT it to go to court and I want them hit with copyright violation and have the plaintiff use the same calculation that the RIAA and MPAA uses and demand $4.6 billion in lost revenue as they shared the video with millions of people.

        Doesn't work like that.

        I doubt the guy who made the video registered is work with the US Copyright Office before publishing it. As such, he can only use a court to force the infringing party to stop infringing, and can only expect to be paid his demonstrably customary rate for the material. Considering he probably makes a buck or two here and there, at best, for letting YouTube run ads before/on his material, there's no there, there. If, however, he did register the work, he then has the option of pursu

    • Re:Settle (Score:5, Interesting)

      by vivaoporto ( 1064484 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @12:44PM (#50317109)
      This is not one run-of-the-mill "personal use copyright infringement" suit. Some important things make this case special:

      1. The plaintiff is an intelectual property lawyer
      2. The use of the video was for profit
      3. As the article says many other news outlets sought permission or licensed the clip but these two, despite knowing the clip was copyrighted, choose to use them anyway.

      If Thomas-Rasset was ordered to pay $1,920,000 for making 22 mp3 available for download (not for profit) how much should these media be liable in this lawsuit? How many other videos they use without proper licensing and/or attribution?

      This could be the first of many similar cases considering the media worldwide assume that if a video is available on Youtube they are free to reproduce them in their TV news and shows.
      • How much? By RIAA / MPAA logic, not only is CNN and CBC on the hook for this, but also anyone working there is also personally liable, as are the various data pipe providers that helped facilitate this. If anyone working at CNN / CBC happened to take a laptop home that someone in their household MIGHT have seen this on, then everyone in the house is also an infringer. If anyone in CBC / CNN used, operated, or associated with an "open wifi" during this time period, then all MAC addresses in those WAP tabl
    • CNN and CBC would do well to settle. Fighting this would be admitting that they don't truly believe that copyright deserves protection, and could be used against them in future lawsuits in which they are plaintiff.

      CNN and CBC likely will settle just to get rid of it, even if paying a lot. They know they'll lose, unless they have a licensing agreement with google, for example.

      The big boys regularly use content others produce without disclosing who they bought it from. A random low-level independent or semi-independent media guy will get a call about his footage after a relevant disaster and then his material will magically appear on the news network as if they had done the work themselves, and the low-level guy will

  • Take down their site (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @12:03PM (#50316755)

    File a complaint with Google and have them take their entire site of the index.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @12:06PM (#50316777)

    "I work as an intellectual property attorney"!

  • Surprised (Score:4, Informative)

    by MobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @12:07PM (#50316785)

    I'm surprised to read this. CNN used one of my YouTube videos once, after they reached out to me to obtain permission. Bummer.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @12:24PM (#50316923)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Dude, he's an IP attorney who posted it for profit. The case is a slam-dunk as it's willful infringement. It'll be quietly settled out of court and he likely will be able to retire if he so chooses.

  • Why is anyone in Canada paying for a video of snow?
    • Maple Syrup addiction can really mess up your head. It's summer time, and the snow / syrup addiction subsystem is kicking in with full cravings.
    • Mainly so we can take a pull of our beer bottle, adjust our toques, say something like "You hosers call that a snow storm? We call that a light dusting, eh?" Then we get called off of the penalty bench back onto the ice, so we put down our poutine, pop another Timbit, and crank up the Rush.
  • I'm sure his great, great grandchildren will look forward to their $100 payout.
  • by bwcbwc ( 601780 )

    As the article quotes, the Standard Youtube license grants any Youtube user (including CNN) license to use, reproduce, sub-license and transfer any video posted on Youtube, whether for commercial purposes or not. Our plucky individual gave CNN and CBC the rights to use and reuse the video when he uploaded it.

    Now if CNN or CBC tried to issue a DMCA take-down on a video they had downloaded from YouTube, I'd definitely sue their asses.

    • by The-Forge ( 84105 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @01:56PM (#50317665)

      The license only grants though permissions when they "access your Content through the Service, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such Content as permitted through the functionality of the Service"

      I don't think there were playing it live from a YouTube page or through an authorized YouTube API application, so they were in violation of the license.

  • $150,000 fine per individual they broadcast the video too.

  • The headline in a couple of months: Video file owner and lawyer gets a nice payoff to drop charges against big corporations.

    Nothing changes.

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