Harvard Professor Believes He's Found Fragments of Alien Technology (cbsnews.com) 138
Harvard professor Avi Loeb believes he may have found fragments of alien technology from a meteor that landed in the waters off of Papua, New Guinea in 2014. CBS News reports: Loeb and his team just brought the materials back to Harvard for analysis. The U.S. Space Command confirmed with almost near certainty, 99.999%, that the material came from another solar system. The government gave Loeb a 10 km (6.2 mile) radius of where it may have landed. "That is where the fireball took place, and the government detected it from the Department of Defense. It's a very big area, the size of Boston, so we wanted to pin it down," said Loeb. "We figured the distance of the fireball based off the time delay between the arrival of blast wave, the boom of explosion, and the light that arrived quickly."
Their calculations allowed them to chart the potential path of the meteor. Those calculations happened to carve a path right through the same projected 10 km range that came from the U.S. government. Loeb and his crew took a boat called the Silver Star out to the area. The ship took numerous passes along and around the meteor's projected path. Researchers combed the ocean floor by attaching a sled full of magnets to their boat. "We found ten spherules. These are almost perfect spheres, or metallic marbles. When you look at them through a microscope, they look very distinct from the background," explained Loeb, "They have colors of gold, blue, brown, and some of them resemble a miniature of the Earth."
An analysis of the composition showed that the spherules are made of 84% iron, 8% silicon, 4% magnesium, and 2% titanium, plus trace elements. They are sub-millimeter in size. The crew found 50 of them in total. "It has material strength that is tougher than all space rock that were seen before, and catalogued by NASA," added Loeb, "We calculated its speed outside the solar system. It was 60 km per second, faster than 95% of all stars in the vicinity of the sun. The fact that it was made of materials tougher than even iron meteorites, and moving faster than 95% of all stars in the vicinity of the sun, suggested potentially it could be a spacecraft from another civilization or some technological gadget." He likens the situation to any of the Voyager spacecrafts launched by NASA.
Their calculations allowed them to chart the potential path of the meteor. Those calculations happened to carve a path right through the same projected 10 km range that came from the U.S. government. Loeb and his crew took a boat called the Silver Star out to the area. The ship took numerous passes along and around the meteor's projected path. Researchers combed the ocean floor by attaching a sled full of magnets to their boat. "We found ten spherules. These are almost perfect spheres, or metallic marbles. When you look at them through a microscope, they look very distinct from the background," explained Loeb, "They have colors of gold, blue, brown, and some of them resemble a miniature of the Earth."
An analysis of the composition showed that the spherules are made of 84% iron, 8% silicon, 4% magnesium, and 2% titanium, plus trace elements. They are sub-millimeter in size. The crew found 50 of them in total. "It has material strength that is tougher than all space rock that were seen before, and catalogued by NASA," added Loeb, "We calculated its speed outside the solar system. It was 60 km per second, faster than 95% of all stars in the vicinity of the sun. The fact that it was made of materials tougher than even iron meteorites, and moving faster than 95% of all stars in the vicinity of the sun, suggested potentially it could be a spacecraft from another civilization or some technological gadget." He likens the situation to any of the Voyager spacecrafts launched by NASA.
Thank you Omni Magazine (Score:5, Informative)
Anyone remember Omni Magazine? It was the 1980s version of 'is there anything we don't completely understand? ... It must be aliens or ghosts or psychic powers!' [insert gif of that frizzy haired History channel dumbass here].
And as usual, no, it's not aliens. We find these metallic spheroids from meteorites all over, going back at least five decades. It's just a very common form for small metallic droplets that cool rapidly - this has been recreated in the lab too. There is just no need to invoke aliens here unless you're a publicity seeking doofus.
Re:Thank you Omni Magazine (Score:5, Funny)
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What's the fun in "small metallic droplets"?
Killjoy!
(there always has to be one...)
Avi Loeb is Harvard version of "but it's aliens".. (Score:5, Informative)
It must be aliens or ghosts or psychic powers!' [insert gif of that frizzy haired History channel dumbass here].
That's Giorgio A. Tsoukalos. [wikipedia.org]
The main difference between him and Avi Loeb is that he is into ANCIENT ALIENS and that Avi Loeb is more into SPACE ALIENS. [wikipedia.org]
Also, only one of them is a crank, [youtube.com] actively making Harvard University a laughing stock and degrading the reputation of science all across the board.
And it ain't Giorgio.
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Anyone remember Omni Magazine?.
I do, but only one thing: A Last Word piece by Ben Bova that predicted that we would one day have mastered nanobot technology so that he could have a nanobot that was programmed to "live" on his head and perform the single task of traversing every strand of hair on his head and trimming it to the same length, giving him a perpetual haircut. I finally gave up waiting for that when I went bald.
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I bought one issue of Omni on the newsstand as a kid.
It had an article on lucid dreaming that I was interested in. It usually cost as much as a nudie magazine so I had to spend real paper route money.
The claims and techniques the article outlined are considered standard today and have borne out.
I don't know what you're on about but it's at least a composition error.
And has nothing to do with an oceanographic expedition by the Chair of Harvard's astrophysics department. This real Project Bluebook clasd dis
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It probably was an extra-solar metallic meteorite of unusual composition. It got flash-burned coming through the atmosphere and shed small blobs of metal that got rapidly quenched.
OTOH, I don't think we can prove that it wasn't something like a pioneer probe that eventually crashed on Earth. Except t suspect that the pioneer probes are largely empty space, so they'd be likely to either bounce or not leave much in the way of traces.
Aliens exist (Score:1)
Ancient Aliens meme guy earns Harvard degree (Score:2)
Call us when you've done the isotope analysis. (Score:5, Informative)
The meteor is assumed to be interstellar based on its velocity. If the pellets they found are really from the meteor, they should have different isotope ratios to metals on Earth, or from previous meteorites. Avi has rushed to the press before those results are in.
If confirmed, the samples will be interesting, but there is zero evidence of any "technology", just wild speculation.
This is the same guy who was telling us that Oumuamua was an alien spaceship.
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If confirmed, the samples will be interesting,
Yep. At best this is "interesting".
"Extraordinary" would be if they were little gear wheels or painted metal fragments or had alien writing on them or were something like that.
"Sphere" is second only to "potato" in the list of shapes that are easy to produce naturally.
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No, even is it's just melted metal droplets, confirmed ET technology residue would qualify as "very interesting". Even droplets from an extra-solar meteorite qualify as interesting, though not headline worthy.
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confirmed ET technology residue would qualify as "very interesting".
To put it mildly. But that is impossible, from tiny specs of solidified mist. There is so little information remaining.
What scientists would really love is to locate fragments of interstellar meteorites that were not melted, either when created or when landing.
Such samples would contain a wealth of data, with crystals, trapped gasses, evidence of their age, and potentially of life or technology.
See Martian meteorites. [wikipedia.org]
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Indeed, wake me if it also has an unusually high assembly number...
Re: Call us when you've done the isotope analysis. (Score:3)
Isotope analysis would be useful. But even if they find that it is interstellar, claiming alien technology requires a lot more convincing evidence than
1) it was going somewhat fast (compared to other stars, as if there are no other ways to accelerate)
2) it was harder than a normal iron meteorite - it clearly melted in our atmosphere, creating those spherules, which then quickly quenched when it hit the ocean. Its hardness now probably doesn't reflect its hardness before entering our atmosphere.
Also, when he
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> when he dragged his magnet across a different area of the ocean floor, did he find nothing
Yes, they did control area drags for several days.
Re: Call us when you've done the isotope analysis (Score:2)
I've read the article three times now and see no mention of them do control tests outside of the expected path.
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Avi has rushed to the press before those results are in.
tbh I expect nothing less from Harvard. They are good at making a show.
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This is the same guy who was telling us that Oumuamua was an alien spaceship.
Isn't it lovely when a esteemed professor wanders off his meds and starts down that path to loopy land?.
Inspired by a BBC "Sky at Night" edition (Score:3)
I went out into my back garden, ran a magnet (from a broken HDD) along the aluminium rainwater gutter on the edge of my greenhouse roof and, sure enough, found a couple of tiny pieces of magnetic material.
I cannot think of any reason for tiny magnetic particles falling onto my greenhouse roof other than that they are micro meteorites. Nothing to see here, nothing special, this stuff continually falls from the sky onto all regions of the planet.
Re: Inspired by a BBC "Sky at Night" edition (Score:3)
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Avi Loeb and Linus Pauling (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Avi Loeb and Linus Pauling (Score:5, Informative)
I had to do a search on this Avi Loeb character, and apparently he has a history of claiming things that are not true:
https://www.scientificamerican... [scientificamerican.com]
Re: Avi Loeb and Linus Pauling (Score:4, Informative)
Here is an excerpt from a Harvard University where Avi Loeb claims that he is a âoespace archaeologistâ and believes that objects in space are basically remnants of dead civilizations:
https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/~... [harvard.edu]
The dude is basically an unhinged media hound, but heyâ¦tenure.
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"but hey, tenure"
Most people carry on as before when they get tenure. Some use it as a position from which they can tackle the big problems from where they cannot be displaced by being unpopular. Others go bonkers.
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It's not at all unusual for someone to have SOME really strange ideas. If you're really smart, the ideas get stranger. Generally they get ignored, but once in awhile one of them pans out.
Even ordinary people will turn out to have some really strange ideas when you get to know them, But most of them are not just unusual, but boring, or "obviously wrong because...". The really smart people seem to avoid those two traps.
E,g,, how would you prove that these metal blobs aren't residue from an alien probe? T
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I believe your statement is an oxymoron.
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Maybe it's a form of "hope"? Or is this just more evidence of how impossible it is to prove, or disprove, some ideas? "If a tree falls in a forest..." kind of stuff.
It does get them talked about...
What about from outside the search area? (Score:2)
Hello,
While it is interesting that these spheres were found (and should probably be called spheres, pending confirmation that they are actually spherules [springer.com]), it would be good to check for them outside of the search area.
It is entirely possible these are the result of some terrestrial activity, man-made or otherwise. After all, people have been using shot towers [wikipedia.org] since the late 18th century to make lead shot round enough for shooting. Aside from industrial processes, perhaps these could be the result of volca
Re: What about from outside the search area? (Score:2)
Agreed. An earlier post claims that they did a control sweep elsewhere. However, the fact that that's not mentioned in the article points to a very fundamental problem. There's a major ethics issue (in my view) with going to the press about this before there has been *any* scientific rigor, *any* peer review, and *any* presentation of data beyond an elemental analysis and verbal description of hardness. This is pure speculation based on thin data that would never stand in the scientific literature, and the
The clickbait is becoming unhinged. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: The clickbait is becoming unhinged. (Score:2)
What really disturbs me is that the media feels like it can literally claim anything these days, using the flimsiest of logic. The media presents data, then draws conclusions that could absolutely not come from that data.
Re: The clickbait is becoming unhinged. (Score:2)
And of course, when they find that these spherules are not alien technology, do you think Loeb will go to the press and say "it's not alien technology after all"? I doubt it. He'll get all the positive press based on his unfounded speculation, and none of the negative press when that speculation is found to be nonsense. I have to imagine his scientific colleagues are shaking their heads.
Another solar system? (Score:2)
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He's making a stronger claim that that, though. I'm rather dubious, but I don't see any obvious proof that he's wrong. (Or any that he's right.)
Put this into the "Interesting. Get back to me when you've done the analysis" file.
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The more likely explanation is that materials travel across space, passing through solar systems. No need for any "extra terrestrial technology" explanation.
Paging G. A. Tsoukalos (Score:2)
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=anci... [duckduckgo.com]
More confirmation... (Score:3)
That Harvard is a rather odd place, once you move away from the business school.
(And the business school has its own separate issues)
Avi Loeb (Score:1)
Avi Loeb is a well know fraud.
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Fraud or crank? I thought he was a crank.
The found material certainly doesn't sound exotic (Score:4, Insightful)
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Alloys from advanced civilization ar anachronistic (Score:5, Interesting)
A civilization with the technology to reach earth would have reached the point where they had control over molecular manufacturing. They wouldn't use metals. They would be using bulk nanocrystaline diamond or sapphire due to their greater strength/weight ratios and durability in the interstellar vacuum. So, no, I don't think he's found advanced alien tech.
Re: Alloys from advanced civilization ar anachroni (Score:1)
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This is precisely the problem. We are looking at the material using our current knowledge of materials in our tech level, and it makes perfect sense to us in the same way that it made perfect sense to the Victorians that advanced computing devices would be made from fiendishly complex clockwork.
But advanced tech would be nanofabricated from lighter elements with high intrinsic bond strength, organised at the atomic scale. So in looking at exotic alloys we are barking entirely up the wrong tree.
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Intelligent Aliens (Score:3)
The Horta is an extremely intelligent creature.
Extraordinary claims (Score:2)
Magnetic space craft? (Score:2)
So how much of the Voyager craft are actually magnetic metals? I thought they were mostly aluminum and plastic with that gold record. None of that kind of thing would be picked by magnet fishing.
Professor Foilhat (Score:1)
Is the evidence for being "technology" the sphere shape or the metal composition? Spheres can happen from the heat of the meteor, and perhaps from being surrounded by water while cooling.
And the metals allegedly stand out because the alloys are stronger than those found in known meteors.
Neither of these seem strong evidence of alien manufacturing. Somebody's jumping to conclusions. Plus, they could be from human activity, as they simply dragged a magnet along the bottom of a body of water to collect them.
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As others have said, it's easily explained by shot tower physics. Where we made round shot out of lead by basically dumping ladles of molten lead onto a sieve located several stories up(depending on shot size and other aspects desired), with a water base. The sieve broke up the lead into droplets, and the free fall(with a bit of air resistance) caused them to tend to form into spheres. The air cooling would generally cause them to have a shell already strong enough to keep the spherical shape when they hi
Of course it is... (Score:3)
Avi Loeb. Because of course it is.
He's turning into the "Aliens did it" Greek guy lately.
I for one welcome our ... (Score:3)
My guess (Score:1)
Not alien "tech".... (Score:2)
Why ever should matariel from another solar system suddenly be "alien tech"? That is just stupid. Yes, meteorites from other solar system are rare. But that does not make them technological artefacts.
This is just sensationalist bullshit.
Collect them from any large roof ... (Score:3)
Avi Loeb has gone off the rails and is jumping to conclusions on every occasion.
Watch this detailed analysis by a physicist [youtube.com] on his metamorphosis from a Harvard astrophysics professor to a "we found aliens" nutcase.
Micro-meteoroids hit earth every minute of every day ... ...
That means the ocean is full of that star dust, as well as every large roof
Several people collect them and photograph them, e.g. this article [www.cbc.ca].
As someone already commented, it is the isotope ratios that matter in determining a terrestrial origin or from elsewhere.
Gold, Brown, Blue (Score:2)
alien technology (Score:2)
another solar system = alien technology. Quite a leap. But not for morons, who can leap tall buildings in a simple bound.
Harvard (Score:3)
Odd that an institution synonymous with smart should produce so much stupid.
the better way (Score:2)
Harvard/CBS (Score:2)
Could these just be old musket balls? Or similar? (Score:2)
I mean use a magnet and you found some magnetic stuff that looks manufactured or created. Isn't that (or for cannons) a logical possibility? Surprising they found it, maybe, but more likely than the same from outer space.
Gene Chandler sang it (Score:2)
Yet another dupe... https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
Sing along with me:
Dupe, Dupe, Dupe, Dupe of Earl
Dupe, Dupe, Dupe of Earl
Dupe, Dupe, Dupe of Earl
Dupe, Dupe, Dupe of Earl...
That time of the year again? (Score:2)
Re: Zapp Brannigan (Score:3)
Re: Zapp Brannigan (Score:5, Interesting)
Even simpler; molten metal from the meteorite that landed in water did what small drops of molten metal do when introduced to water; it forms little balls. Lead shot has been made that way since the 1700s because it's a cheap, easy process for making little round spheres of metal.
To the OP's point (which has nothing to do with the spherules); comets don't have enough mass to provide a gravitational assist of any significance. Multiple gravitational assists to speed up the meteor would be part of that 0.001% chance that the meteor did not come from outside of the solar system. It's car more likely that this meteor, like the 'Oumuamua [wikipedia.org] object, simply came from outside the solar system.
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Yes, and the fast cooling in water is a common process for hardening steel. These spheres are extremely hard because of how they were formed.
Magically harder than all the other meteorites that also landed in water because...
"It has material strength that is tougher than all space rock that were seen before, and catalogued by NASA,"
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You're assuming that a significant amount of this sort of research has been conducted in oceanic conditions, fresh off of a known impact.
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> Magically harder than all the other meteorites that also landed in water because...
Not harder it seems, "Material strength" appears to be something else:
"Material strength refers to the point on the engineering stress–strain curve (yield stress) beyond which the material experiences deformations that will not be completely reversed upon removal of the loading and as a result, the member will have a permanent deflection"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Did they every collect these small droplets before?
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That's not a really good argument. IIUC this is the first stuff recovered in small pieces from underwater that is thought to be of meteoric origin.
Though that's not really true, as I remember the iridium blobs attributed to the dinosaur killer. but outside of that, what?
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In general, Avi Loeb should pay a visit to the next mineralogical collection to see native element minerals, which often come as spheres or fine threads. Fine threads for instance often appear if a mineral is regularly blown through a rift, leaving something behind that is sometimes called Angel hair.
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Please don't ruin his 15 minutes of fame.
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Besides that, there is the fundamental law of Astrophysics: It's never aliens.
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Couldn't the pieces have simply jackknifed from comet to comet? Getting some kind of gravity boost to reach those speeds?
Who cares?
The fact that a meteorite may have come from another solar system is no big surprise. I'd be more worried if there weren't any.
Leaping from "extrasolar meteorite" to "alien technology", OTOH, is something that deserves to get him kicked out of Harvard for being too stupid.
Re:Zapp Brannigan (Score:5, Interesting)
Leaping from "extrasolar meteorite" to "alien technology", OTOH, is something that deserves to get him kicked out of Harvard for being too stupid.
His entire career consists of making ridiculous claims like this. He's the same guy who's been claiming that Oumuamua is a giant alien spacecraft. Harvard likes to hire kooks who get published, not people who know how to teach or do meaningful research. Steven Pinker, Jordan Peterson, Alan Dershowitz, E. O. Wilson, B.F. Skinner, and countless others.
Personally, I would never hire a Harvard graduate. The university is not designed to provide the best education, the entire system is structured around identifying prospective students who are cutthroat overachievers who can do well on standardized tests. We then throw these defective people into classrooms taught by professors more concerned with their own ambitions than their roles as educators, so they make graduate assistants do all the real work.
Nothing about Harvard is designed to cultivate the best and brightest, in either faculty or students. It's designed to cultivate the most ambitious. They churn out notable alum like Ron DeSantis and Mark Zuckerberg. Meanwhile, Harvard pulls the wool over our eyes, convincing us that cutthroat ambition is a virtue rather than a vice. Like Marc Antony convincing a crowd that we should not have feared Caesar's ambition, for it served Rome so wonderfully.
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Given Rome's mores, Antony had a point. The common soldier wasn't going to get a plot of land and potentially slaves from some leader who sat on his ass and didn't conquer. Also, the Republic was dead by that point, everyone knew it. Some people thought they could restore it, perhaps, but it was dead, Jim. That last class of people were wrong. Octavian was a lot wiser, velvet glove and all.
The only people who didn't make out well from the transition from Republic to Empire were the senatorial class, wh
Re:Zapp Brannigan (Score:4, Insightful)
The analogy is rooted in Shakespeare's historically questionable play, not actual history. The point is, in our attempt to create a meritocracy, we have instead created a system that primarily rewards ambition. Hence, our corporations and governments are run by psychopaths because when you're that ambitious, it's an unhealthy obsession and you have severely misplaced values.
So let's posit you are right (Score:2)
What do you do to stop the narcissists? I mean capitalism sucks but i'm reminded of Churchill's aphorism about forms of government. It sucks less than all the alternatives. Command economies are also run by narcs - they just end up in the nomenklatura. And no command economy is very good at controlling inputs and outputs and distributing evenly.
The solution would seem to be to shoot anyone who actually wants a leadership role.
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The solution would seem to be to shoot anyone who actually wants a leadership role.
Basically, yes. Maybe not shoot but wanting the job should disqualify you from it.
Several ancient cultures had solutions to this problem, the most famous and formalized one was in China. Selection for public office by merit and ability. No possibility to apply, you need to be selected. No possibility to pass on whatever power or wealth you acquired in your leadership role to your kids, they have to independently qualify for it.
We've done the opposite. Our political party systems reward those with no qualifi
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Yeah, D. Adams nailed it in HGTTG, the bit about under no circumstances elect someone president who actually wants to be president. I also like the part about a president's job is not to wield power, but to attract attention from it.
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I agree. It required the ominpotent power of an Emperor to put it in place in China, I note. I wonder if that risk is what is absolutely required here.
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It wasn't just the Emperor, but a huge amount of cultural background without which this wouldn't have been possible. Other countries had omnipotent rulers, but were unable to create such a system.
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My post wasn't attempting to address the many complications of distributive justice and I certainly wasn't suggesting any systemic change. I was merely arguing that we need to change culturally. We need to stop viewing Ivy League grads as extra intelligent and especially dispel with any notions that such an education makes one wise. Do I know how to convince top corporations and government officials to stop treating Ivy League grads as an aristocratic class? Nope.
However, I will say that if the individuals
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Why would it be such an elaborately pop-culture laden yet rare event?
Clearly everyone suddenly forgot the relation between mass and velocity in collisions.
If a very heavy thing collides at even moderately low speeds the velocity generated in smaller pieces from the impact can be a lot higher. But the meteorite could have originated in an explosion as well. No problem getting to 20x the speed of a star. Also, he compares it to the speed of fucking STARS. Stars are the slowest moving thing in any solar system
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Wow!! So The Conspiracy even involves a UFO nut from Harvard. Those diabolical Masters of the Political Universe will stop at nothing. However, the cocaine was probably planted by the GQP, it's the sort of thing they'd do because there are no longer any bar low enough that they cannot limbo under it.
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However, the cocaine was probably planted by the GQP
Wow, what an idiotic statement.
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I can't give you a number, but IIUC astronomers have two or three definitions of what "the vicinity of the sun" means, depending on what they're talking about. In this case I'm going to guess that he meant "the local group" https://earthsky.org/clusters-... [earthsky.org] , but I've got to admit that it's a guess.
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Keep in mind that the real mystery is not, if there are aliens out there or not. The real mystery is why we haven't seen them yet.
The idea that we are alone in the universe, or just our galaxy for that matter, is egocentric and improbable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Seeing how our planet keeps warming due to industrial emissions, global pandemics due to genetic engineering of viruses and ever more lethal weapons of destruction, I think I'm starting to get a pretty good idea why civilizations destroy t